Mini game? Where did you hear about that? Could you provide some details? I only know about the sequel in the works. But fully agreed on Kurone. Feels a bit like with her they understood the previous games Reverse NTR stuff was decent but subpar. So they improved it for Kurone. I do think the point is she IS too amazing for Sadi as there's meant to be a tragedty/horror to her situation with her mind being unable to even say why she likes him yet is obessivly loyal to him. But here's hoping she can become indepdant
- Thread starter dazedanon
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Fully agreed on all counts. The NTR with the demon males isn't...Bad per say. But in both games it's pretty much just 'Hey i'm openly a lying, cheating, simpy and scummy demon. But you can trust me not to pull anything despite breaking all my own rules and deals constnatly."
And the girl goes "Sure." To let the corruption even happen/start. It's BETTER in mirage and not as many forced corrupiton moments as the first. But somehow they made it make a lot less sense and have holes in it.
They either need to as said. Go all in on a pure NTR game to hone their writing skills with it. And not have to rely on 'male demon froced magic corruption cheating' So much. Or just drop it and stick to the Reverse NTR they are actually talented at.
Ah ! that training thing, the same sequel you are talking about. I called that a mini game lol since it's titled cryptomini or something.
Every links seems to be 1.02. I'm probably gonna wait for 1.05 to be translated/updated considering it also added a bit of new content.
You know here's something i noticed upon replaying when bored.
What exactly does demonic subjugation even DO? The game never defines the magic in detail so we know it's rules and limits beyond it's posible to resist.
Like..How does it acutally work?We know it increases pleasure to an addictive level. We know it makes those under it more sugestable.
But what else does it do specifically? Does it change their persoanlity?Does it alter their mind? Does it break down their will?
It seems do do all that. But also it does more than that? It's not very clear.
Despite being like. The most important thing in the game, it never really tells us how it works. And i think that's a big source of issues the NTR route storyline has. We really don't know exactly HOW it works as the game never really explains it clearly. It just seems to...Corrupt the girl. But not really tell us how it works or the like. Which is weird beacuse this game littearly explains pretty much all other magic in the dictonaries but not this for some reason.
What exactly does demonic subjugation even DO? The game never defines the magic in detail so we know it's rules and limits beyond it's posible to resist.
Like..How does it acutally work?We know it increases pleasure to an addictive level. We know it makes those under it more sugestable.
But what else does it do specifically? Does it change their persoanlity?Does it alter their mind? Does it break down their will?
It seems do do all that. But also it does more than that? It's not very clear.
Despite being like. The most important thing in the game, it never really tells us how it works. And i think that's a big source of issues the NTR route storyline has. We really don't know exactly HOW it works as the game never really explains it clearly. It just seems to...Corrupt the girl. But not really tell us how it works or the like. Which is weird beacuse this game littearly explains pretty much all other magic in the dictonaries but not this for some reason.
A lot of character special information is missing from the english version. I believe the details of the magical contract Luna forms with Ivieru are supposed to be in the game dictionary. Then again, even if it was visible, it probably wouldn't give more info than what you initially get at the end of chapter 2.
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From what we see with Kotori, the contract directly talks to the victim's subconscious to slowly make them look more favorably toward the contractor. That is the premise for Luna's corruption, to resists it before the final day. Although Kotori instantly falls, there was nothing gradual about it, but maybe the Dev was illustrating that Luna has a stronger will, so she wouldn't fall as easily. But based on game events, it isn't only the magic that corrupts Luna, but also Ivieru creating favorable circumstances to get Luna to let her gaurd down,
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If you go the NTR route, the narrator explicitly states:
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Ok, now this make me clear on how to see this game.
1. Luna NTR route
All luna ntr scene is showing to us if luna is easly get panic and ivieru can use that rift, like she told to leo before facing ivieru for the last time. She can easly get swift by how "usefull" ivieru is and slowly she get ntred by him.
2. No ntr route
Its show us how strong luna's mind and will. It also show us how weak Ivieru to do provocation and how poor his plan.
What missing from this story
1. Consequences (read it whit john wick voice)
There is no consequences from what luna choose. When she disobey ivieru, she doesn't get punishment or something that make her regret of her disobedient and ivieru still make the dispell potion for her. Leo and Kurone relationship also doesn't have impact to ivieru and Luna relationship, even though it can be used by Ivieru to seduced Luna.
2. Progress
You don't need a progress, don't care how corrupted Luna you still can save her, don't care how pure Luna you still can ntred her. You can fuck Kurone how much you want and you can still have true route. I know there is something change when you doing ntr route, but its not enough. Luna and Ivieru should do it more and more, increase the intensive, show us that ivieru make a progress.
I understand that the game event is only 3 weaks, i can tolerate it if its need to rush. But non ntr route sounds more make sense because there is no consequences and solid progression, only good things goes smoothly, even ntr route can cancelled by only force kiss.
I know i already made my point before, but yeah
Ok so i deleted my preivous post now that i've gathered my thougths proeprly on the problem with Ivieru, the NTR route and the demon subjugation.
The problem is acutally something very simple. It is not conistant. At all. What his magic even does.
What i mean is that the Demon subjugation has 2 diffrent effects and limimatoins and rules at the exact same time.
With Kotori she insntatly falls to it and is fully enthralled/controlled. To the point even when broken her body is still addicted to it and ivieru himself. But the limitation with it is that the magic can't make her commit sabatoge or acts of violence against her freinds. So he gets bored of her.
This fits for a low level, weak demon that's kind of a loser exaclty the character ivieru is. So it fits he has a dangerous but very limited power.
However with Luna it has a vastly diffrent effect that even contradicts how it works on Kotori. It takes a long time for Luna. Ok can be explained by having a strong will and loyalty. However the contradiction is that it seems to erase Luna's original persoanlity/mind and replace it with a new one. At least that's how the game portays it in the NTR scene. And now Luna is willing to kill and sabatoge for ivieru.
Do you see the problem there? If his magic can do THAT to the strong willed Luna. Why on earth can it NOT do that to the weak willed Kotori? Why is HER persoanltiy left completly intact? Why could she not be used for what ivieru wanted. When he littearly has the power to just erase her persoanlity?
That's a HUGE plothole and outright contradictoin that practically breaks the story as his power basically contradicts its own limits/rules. And it feels way too powerful/potent of an ability for a weak low ranking demon to even have.
The problem is acutally something very simple. It is not conistant. At all. What his magic even does.
What i mean is that the Demon subjugation has 2 diffrent effects and limimatoins and rules at the exact same time.
With Kotori she insntatly falls to it and is fully enthralled/controlled. To the point even when broken her body is still addicted to it and ivieru himself. But the limitation with it is that the magic can't make her commit sabatoge or acts of violence against her freinds. So he gets bored of her.
This fits for a low level, weak demon that's kind of a loser exaclty the character ivieru is. So it fits he has a dangerous but very limited power.
However with Luna it has a vastly diffrent effect that even contradicts how it works on Kotori. It takes a long time for Luna. Ok can be explained by having a strong will and loyalty. However the contradiction is that it seems to erase Luna's original persoanlity/mind and replace it with a new one. At least that's how the game portays it in the NTR scene. And now Luna is willing to kill and sabatoge for ivieru.
Do you see the problem there? If his magic can do THAT to the strong willed Luna. Why on earth can it NOT do that to the weak willed Kotori? Why is HER persoanltiy left completly intact? Why could she not be used for what ivieru wanted. When he littearly has the power to just erase her persoanlity?
That's a HUGE plothole and outright contradictoin that practically breaks the story as his power basically contradicts its own limits/rules. And it feels way too powerful/potent of an ability for a weak low ranking demon to even have.
I have thougths on this. But to avoid a long winded post i fully agree with all your saying. The game kinda feels like the two routes are in conflict with eachother. I can go into detial but only if you want me to.
I hear you, but I think it's because Luna has a greater capacity for violence than Kotori does. She does straight-up say that she doesn't care about the mission or anyone else but Leo. I got the impression that the curse works within the parameters of the victim's personality. I got the impression that if Leo ordered it, and gave a compelling enough reason, she'd kill everyone in the mansion for him. So why not also Ivieru when he swaps places with Leo in her mind?
It's a stretch, I admit, but that's the impression I think the Dev was going for.
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- Jun 26, 2020
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Well the thing is he isnt erasing her old self she still remembers everything. She has basically been reborn like when a character becomes a demon in anime and movies or whatever. They still retain who they are but that personality gets pushed into their subconscious mind they are now more prone to demonistic behaviors like killing sex and inflicting pain and suffering. Thats how brainwashing works. Demons only care about power and pleasure. Luna literally gets pleasure to seeing others suffer and fall to her seduction. Thats why it even changes her name to familiar luna because now as Iviel's familiar she takes on some of his traits which is being evil and subjugating others. She is still Luna but now she is driven by her base instincts and only acts based on Iviels orders and her own pleasure. Plus you gotta remember she drinks that drink that makes her subjugation like 100x stronger. So Kotori's level of subjugation doesnt even compare to hers. Plus Iviel never really intended to keep Kotori so he didnt pull out all of the stops to make sure she would never break the spell. He only used her as a tool, once he set his sights on Luna and sees her strength Kotori becomes not that important.
That would be valid but there's one problem. That's contradicted by what you posted before. The narrator as you said outright says it changes Luna persoanlity in the NTR route. If it can simply do it there for Luna. Why doesn't it do that for Kotori? Her capacity for Violence isn't really relavant or lack there of isn't revelant. By the very thing the game shows us, it should just. You know. Erase the traces of Kotori's original personality and make a new one that does want to do it. Cause that's...What we are shown. The magic does.
So why doesn't it?
Good interperation. But it's contradicted by what the game itself says of 'There's no trace of The original luna's persoanlity anymore' the narrotor outright says that. So what your saying cant' be the case as it's quite littearly erased and a new one put in it's place. Just scroll up to Jazzhands27's screenshot bottm spoiler post.
That line of dialouge there contradicts what your saying as it ltitearly says Luna's old persoanlity is gone. So what your saying sadly can't be the case.
Tho it is really good interperation and i'd love if that was the case.And thus it loops back to the problem of the magic working in 2 diffrent ways again as i spoke.
If it can just erase/replace persoanlites as it does for Luna. Why did it not simpyl erase Kotori's persoanlity and make a new one? Consdiering she was fully and utterly under it's thrall/control/corruption? She lacks a strong will to resist as Luna has.So why doesn't the magic just change her too?
Maybe this is simple minded but the way I remember working in both cases is that Iveru effectively replaces himself for someone else in that person's heart or at least that seemed to be part of the way it functioned.
Kotori's feelings for MC where turned towards affection for Iveru but it wasn't enough even with the physical seduction to get her to do things she considered immoral.
Luna is special because she already had an attitude of being willing to do anything for her master. Iveru simply transferred that near complete devotion onto himself.
I think this is 100% at least part of what was happening because fairly certain there is text that points at this directly something like "Luna is someone completely devoted to her master, what would happen if someone like that falls for Iveru...." on the two hearts page at some point.
The words "'There's no trace of The original luna's personality anymore'" have to be read in context. It's patently false - what was meant by this in context is that there's no trace of her affection for MC which was basically her personality because now Iveru plays that role for her due to his magic. She is still someone who strongly devoted and ruthless - the object of her personality was erased but her mode of being remains the same.
At least as I understood/remember the game and Iveru's power things made complete sense to me. It's due to their difference in personality and attitude that Luna is both slower to fall but more devoted when she does fall because a lot of what Iveru effectively does is replace himself for the MC in the woman's heart. Luna would do anything for MC so she also would do anything for Iveru if she falls. Kotori liked the MC but wouldn't do things she considers immoral, so Iveru has a hard time getting her to move to that point.
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You succinctly explained the impression I got. Not so simple-minded
Hmm well put and thought out! This I fully agree with!
I just wish the game did a better job properly explaining this and making it more clear. Going by the warning this isn’t a translation issue as much as it is a story one with poor and a bit vague wording.
Feels at times like this NTR route was written second and not fleshed out while the reverse one was done first.
I feel the game is rushed a bit. Probably to meet a one year deadline. If it had more time I feel it might of been even better than it already is.
So to anyone who got the true route ending. Given what you can learn about the treasure.
I feel this is worth asking…Is… this setting a fantasy one? Or are we dealing with a sci-fi one?
This will only make sense if you got that ending, so I am just asking because… I’m curious if anyone else gets the feeling this might not be a traditional fantasy world and something more is going on in its past.
I feel this is worth asking…Is… this setting a fantasy one? Or are we dealing with a sci-fi one?
This will only make sense if you got that ending, so I am just asking because… I’m curious if anyone else gets the feeling this might not be a traditional fantasy world and something more is going on in its past.