The scene actually makes very little sense if you only follow the route of one of the LIs. But if you've been trying to do a harem route the entire game, it turns out that it makes a lot more sense, even if it's not perfect.
The scene actually makes very little sense if you only follow the route of one of the LIs. But if you've been trying to do a harem route the entire game, it turns out that it makes a lot more sense, even if it's not perfect.
I was just getting mad because a lot of the post just ignored the fact that it did fit that path. And i have no clue why the dev did it this way. I dont thing anyone asked for this. Even on the path it fits but still feels rushed.
I have a suggestion to make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. It will sound bad, but please bear with me. Pursue as many relationship points as possible with all the other girls, but without having sex with any of them. That way you can stay technically faithful to your chosen girlfriend. And at the same time, make the confrontation scene make more emotional sense. Because the MC will have given them (intentionally or not) false hope. I know it's not the nicest path to take. But it does make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. And they can be glad that they didn't have to technically cheat on their girlfriend to do it. Hope this helps a little.
I have a suggestion to make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. It will sound bad, but please bear with me. Pursue as many relationship points as possible with all the other girls, but without having sex with any of them. That way you can stay technically faithful to your chosen girlfriend. And at the same time, make the confrontation scene make more emotional sense. Because the MC will have given them (intentionally or not) false hope. I know it's not the nicest path to take. But it does make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. And they can be glad that they didn't have to technically cheat on their girlfriend to do it. Hope this helps a little.
You're tackling this from the wrong direction. If the story only makes sense depending on certain choices by the players, the problem doesn't lie in players' choices, but in the writing of the story.
I was just getting mad because a lot of the post just ignored the fact that it did fit that path. And i have no clue why the dev did it this way. I dont thing anyone asked for this. Even on the path it fits but still feels rushed.
The path fits somewhat if the player is on it from the beginning AND ignores the already established and presented characters of the girls.
As said multiple times each of the girls taking part in the ambush is by her very own character NOT OK with a harem.
Sofia is basically a proud/greedy bitch/witch. She wants MC (and his dick) for herself.
Rachel is opposed to traditions of her species, including extramarital sex and sharing.
Nina does not like Rachel OR Sofia.
That is the main complaint I and many others have.
The scene actually makes very little sense if you only follow the route of one of the LIs. But if you've been trying to do a harem route the entire game, it turns out that it makes a lot more sense, even if it's not perfect.
In my opinion the scene should be different depending on the route each player has chosen for each LI. If, for example, the MC doesn't have any kind of romantic relationship with Sofia or Rachel, then they shouldn't be in the scene. In fact, if the MC doesn't have a relationship with any of the three, the scene is actually unnecessary.
I have a suggestion to make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. It will sound bad, but please bear with me. Pursue as many relationship points as possible with all the other girls, but without having sex with any of them. That way you can stay technically faithful to your chosen girlfriend. And at the same time, make the confrontation scene make more emotional sense. Because the MC will have given them (intentionally or not) false hope. I know it's not the nicest path to take. But it does make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. And they can be glad that they didn't have to technically cheat on their girlfriend to do it. Hope this helps a little.
The path fits somewhat if the player is on it from the beginning AND ignores the already established and presented characters of the girls.
As said multiple times each of the girls taking part in the ambush is by her very own character NOT OK with a harem.
Sofia is basically a proud/greedy bitch/witch. She wants MC (and his dick) for herself.
Rachel is opposed to traditions of her species, including extramarital sex and sharing.
Nina does not like Rachel OR Sofia.
That is the main complaint I and many others have.
Did you try the other path?
1- How did you come up with that. To me she just seemed like a tsundere with trust issues from the event with her ex.
2- Did Rachel ever say she was opposed or are you just assuming. Also forgetting the little fact that something is at play and she dyed her hair and dressed in black after the date.
3- She also did not like her ex but she was still with him till mc came around. He had a family name and guess what the mc has a bigger name.
You're tackling this from the wrong direction. If the story only makes sense depending on certain choices by the players, the problem doesn't lie in players' choices, but in the writing of the story.
Thats the thing if the dev needs the other characters for the main plot with the stone if you ignored all other characters how will it progress. Plus the fact that is a lot of paths if it comes down to a big bad that we have to stop that is a lot of things to keep track of. Not saying it justifies but wish the dev would say something.
Not to be mean but your doing the exact same thing. read Jack Townsendpost and you will see that on different paths the characters act different so you saying they mass modified in order to cater to the full harem is not 100% true you just didnt play that path and thats fine. But when you say dev has to do 1 2 or 3 you are doing the same thing you are accusing the harem fans of. Why did it never cross your mind for the dev to implement 1 and 2. Both fit even if you want to ignore it. But yes i do believe that if you are not on that path then you should not get the ambush. But why is everyone acting like they cant both exist. Funny thing is harem fans are getting attack when you have no clue if the dev did this on his own. Also i have not seen one harem fan defending the forced scene but alot of others are crying how it doesnt fit when i guess they never tried that path. It has been explained that it was not just this update it has been building to this in this path. I repeat IN THIS PATH. Wow i know know what it feels like to be a ntr fan in a harem/ntr game because people are acting like it. Characters are allowed to act a bit different in different paths.
lol dude, firstly use paragraphs.
It's a real migraine inducing reading your post posting non stop without paragraphs and breaks in between.
Secondly, no offense, but you really need to grow thicker skin if you think I am attacking you or people who want full harem. Previously I've said harsher things to other very well deserving people; if I was in tiger mode for those people, I'm literally in pussy cat mode for the recent posts I made regarding this thread.
As I've said before, I don't have a problem with full harem; as long as it's done well in the buildup to it, with LIs actually having good friendships, family ties and rapport for each other.
Games I referenced before Once in a Lifetime and Eternum are great examples of this.
There is a great buildup between each LIs relationships that starts from the first episode till around mid to late game.
However, this game has not a lot of that.
A lot of the LIs are in conflict with one another, only really interacting with the MC and thinking he's the one for them; to the point where they ask "Can we make it official?"
Those aspects, and without the noticeable female friendships for a lot of them already contradicts and hurts characterization.
And yes, the option is given to choose one girl in that ambush scene, but let me quote what Brannon said before;
The harem is not forced since the option to go solo with one of the girls is still there?
Thing is if MC chooses one of the solo answers he loses every girl, including the one he chose who "needs to trust him again" i.e. has her relationship reset.
And btw. even if there was merely a "Hi" to the other girls in the corridors before ...
The only somewhat positive outcome is the harem answer since MC gets the "need to trust him again" from all the girls instead of outright pissing off two or more of them.
"Harem is not forced because you have the option to select bad outcomes!"
Why are you choosing to ignore such aspect?
As he said just because there's option to select bad outcomes, doesn't mean harem isn't forced.
And no.
I don't agree that Scenario 1 and 2 are workable together; cause even if the player chooses say for example, Nina in that ambush scene with all other girls relationship reset (well in terms of journal entries at least, "fatally damaged relationship"), she still has the following scene regardless before the ambush;
Now how does this scene even make sense, when Nina was clearly very upset with MC for messing around with other girls?
Even if the player chooses her in that ambush scene, this scene remains which is a complete U-turn of her characterization, contradicting pretty much everything Nina was before - to add, this is just one example, out of many lol.
And as I said before, not like there good relationship between Nina with Rachel and Sofia. At best they're total strangers, and at worst, they're antagonistic towards each other with each vying to snatch MC for themselves.
There is no positive relationship whatsoever like in OIAL or Eternum which has that in spades between each LIs.
No, I don't think a character changing drastically like this works, even as you said "different paths" because of foundation of Nina (and Sofia and etc etc), unless it's that these LIs have multiple personality disorders
So at the end of it all, you're free to interpret my post however you wish (whether as an attack or not).
You think it works from your end?
Well, that's good for you.
But I myself (and others who feel very differently about it) am not gonna filter what I say just because some folks may feel hurt by me calling out what I think is a detriment in terms of the direction that the dev took (whether it was intentional from dev himself, or whether he caved to full harem people's outcries, due to back in that Nina mad scene).
As others have said already, this is a forum, and there will be people who agree or disagree with your opinions, obviously.
Having said that, let me give you a piece of advice; there are several other people on this forum who are a lot meaner & harsher than me.
If you get mad or upset with that I said (which I myself don't even count as an attack; devs caving into a subset of his/her fans is nothing new), well I just don't see it going well for you with some much, much worse people of the zone.
p.s. And here I thought I was a pussy cat (for quite a while now)! Meow!
First Mc does not have a harem yet and by your logic it is solo only because ( not like there good relationship between Nina with Rachel and Sofia. At best they're total strangers, and at worst, they're antagonistic towards each other with each vying to snatch MC for themselves.) forgetting the fact Sofia and lisa have a path together from early on and they hate each other.
NO ONE SAID THE AMBUSH WAS GOOD
But you clearly can look at it from the other paths it is not kinetic different choices have different outcomes. Have you never played a game with different paths some times characters act different on different paths.
If the mc can get Sofia and lisa to have a throuple path (variable set early in game) why is it so hard for you to see a path that mc gets them to get along.
First Mc does not have a harem yet and by your logic it is solo only because ( not like there good relationship between Nina with Rachel and Sofia. At best they're total strangers, and at worst, they're antagonistic towards each other with each vying to snatch MC for themselves.) forgetting the fact Sofia and lisa have a path together from early on and they hate each other.
NO ONE SAID THE AMBUSH WAS GOOD
But you clearly can look at it from the other paths it is not kinetic different choices have different outcomes. Have you never played a game with different paths some times characters act different on different paths.
If the mc can get Sofia and lisa to have a throuple path (variable set early in game) why is it so hard for you to see a path that mc gets them to get along.
#1 Lily not Lisa
#2 The different paths for solo are ... present but that's about it. Whether you choose Sofia or Rachel apart from flavor text it is basically the very same.
#3 The damage is done at that point. The girls showed their "New and Improved!" characters. In some sense what the player gets now is not what he was promised/worked for.
#1 Lily not Lisa
#2 The different paths for solo are ... present but that's about it. Whether you choose Sofia or Rachel apart from flavor text it is basically the very same.
#3 The damage is done at that point. The girls showed their "New and Improved!" characters. In some sense what the player gets now is not what he was promised/worked for.
But you clearly can look at it from the other paths it is not kinetic different choices have different outcomes. Have you never played a game with different paths some times characters act different on different paths.
I think you are absolutely missing the point on what people are telling you.
Consistency of people's character has to be done FOR ALL ROUTES AND CHOICES. This is basic in any game and writing.
It does NOT matter how different the solo vs the harem path are. Just pick the harem route on its own, abstract yourself from the other paths. Seriously, just focus on that. Then it becomes obvious that character's personality is pretty much broken in that path. This is a problem for the novel regardless of what is happening on the other paths.
EDIT: sorry, explanation got a bit technical. It is hard to let the academic training out sometimes.
IDEALLY, following a causality argument, you would like that different paths in each novel are consequences of choices that make sense. Say that before making a decision, choosing between A1 and B1, you reach a state of the story called X0. In one path Lisa character dies because MC did something that: MC did A1 over B1, which generated A2, then A3... up to A10 in which Lisa dies. All events are essentially a consequence of picking A1 over B1.
X0 -> A1 -> A2 ... A10: Lisa Dies
If MC had picked B1 over A1, then the sequence of event do not happen and Lisa stays alive.
X0 -> B1 -> B2 ... B10: Lisa survives.
That is, X0 can lead to A10 or B10 depending on whether you picked A1 or B1 by causality. That is, if you want you can think X0 has two arrows, one that leads to A10 and another that leads to B10. A single graph.
Some novels fail to successfully write the causality. Fate Stay Night, for example, has paths that feel almost like totally different scenarios. Where even some characters exist or do not exist but that are NOT a consequence of the character's action in a causality kind of way. It's more like you are choosing parallel realities when you make choices, instead of being lead by CAUSALITY what separates the novel. HOWEVER, inside each path, there is continuity going on. That is, if you take everything from X0 to A10 or X0 to B10, the story does not feel broken.
Instead of X0 having 2 arrows leading to either A10 or B10, it feels more like you have 2 different graphs, one from X0 to A10, and another from X0 to B10.
NOW, the problem with the harem path is that even forgetting the other paths exists, the behavior of the character is broken. Continuity on a single line of the choice tree is by itself broken. You pick A1, then you generate A2, A3... up to A10 but instead of reaching A10, somehow you are reaching C10. Now, C10 contradicts all that X0.
So your path from X0 to C10 is broken down. A10 should follow from X0, but something feels absolutely disconnected, and you reach C10. Notice that picking B1 here has nothing to do with the problem mentioned. X0 to A10 by itself is broken. So forget about that B elements.
THIS is the problem with the harem route. X0 here is the personality of the characters. When you get to C10, nothing happened from A1 to A9 that can justify the personality of the characters in X0 to jump to C10. They were written for solo path (A paths) and now are all happy-go-harem (C).
This disconnection between established elements is hard to tolerate for anyone that cares slightly about writing being consistent and is not just wanting a single outcome.
DEUS EX MACHINAS, if you will, generate the same ugly feeling, where everything is written leading you to to A10 but they invent some random crap that makes you jump to C10. While causality there is not broken BECAUSE of the Deus Ex Machina, it feels like writer fucked on everything they had written before. In fact, you could even set up the harem route like a deus ex machina. "And suddently, a god that was watching the confrontation between the Love Interests and MC felt pity on MC and used his godly powers to make the Love Interests happily accept harems." ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.
I think you are absolutely missing the point on what people are telling you.
Consistency of people's character has to be done FOR ALL ROUTES AND CHOICES. This is basic in any game and writing.
It does NOT matter how different the solo vs the harem path are. Just pick the harem route on its own, abstract yourself from the other paths. Seriously, just focus on that. Then it becomes obvious that character's personality is pretty much broken in that path. This is a problem for the novel regardless of what is happening on the other paths.
EDIT: sorry, explanation got a bit technical. It is hard to let the academic training out sometimes.
IDEALLY, following a causality argument, you would like that different paths in each novel are consequences of choices that make sense. Say that before making a decision, choosing between A1 and B1, you reach a state of the story called X0. In one path Lisa character dies because MC did something that: MC did A1 over B1, which generated A2, then A3... up to A10 in which Lisa dies. All events are essentially a consequence of picking A1 over B1.
X0 -> A1 -> A2 ... A10: Lisa Dies
If MC had picked B1 over A1, then the sequence of event do not happen and Lisa stays alive.
X0 -> B1 -> B2 ... B10: Lisa survives.
That is, X0 can lead to A10 or B10 depending on whether you picked A1 or B1 by causality. That is, if you want you can think X0 has two arrows, one that leads to A10 and another that leads to B10. A single graph.
Some novels fail to successfully write the causality. Fate Stay Night, for example, has paths that feel almost like totally different scenarios. Where even some characters exist or do not exist but that are NOT a consequence of the character's action in a causality kind of way. It's more like you are choosing parallel realities when you make choices, instead of being lead by CAUSALITY what separates the novel. HOWEVER, inside each path, there is continuity going on. That is, if you take everything from X0 to A10 or X0 to B10, the story does not feel broken.
Instead of X0 having 2 arrows leading to either A10 or B10, it feels more like you have 2 different graphs, one from X0 to A10, and another from X0 to B10.
NOW, the problem with the harem path is that even forgetting the other paths exists, the behavior of the character is broken. Continuity on a single line of the choice tree is by itself broken. You pick A1, then you generate A2, A3... up to A10 but instead of reaching A10, somehow you are reaching C10. Now, C10 contradicts all that X0.
So your path from X0 to C10 is broken down. A10 should follow from X0, but something feels absolutely disconnected, and you reach C10. Notice that picking B1 here has nothing to do with the problem mentioned. X0 to A10 by itself is broken. So forget about that B elements.
THIS is the problem with the harem route. X0 here is the personality of the characters. When you get to C10, nothing happened from A1 to A9 that can justify the personality of the characters in X0 to jump to C10. They were written for solo path (A paths) and now are all happy-go-harem (C).
This disconnection between established elements is hard to tolerate for anyone that cares slightly about writing being consistent and is not just wanting a single outcome.
DEUS EX MACHINAS, if you will, generate the same ugly feeling, where everything is written leading you to to A10 but they invent some random crap that makes you jump to C10. While causality there is not broken BECAUSE of the Deus Ex Machina, it feels like writer fucked on everything they had written before. In fact, you could even set up the harem route like a deus ex machina. "And suddently, a god that was watching the confrontation between the Love Interests and MC felt pity on MC and used his godly powers to make the Love Interests happily accept harems." ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.
And as I said before, Once in a Lifetime (I'll use that one cause that's finished, instead of Eternum, which is still ongoing), is a perfect example of that.
X0 = Lauren, the older sister's personality.
A1 to A9 = all the adventures that Lauren goes though not just with MC, but with her younger sister, her mom and her sister and other LIs of MC, all the perils and thrills and the fun; i.e. the female friendships and hardships, the bond and camaraderie!
C10 = eventual destination by the game's end where Lauren accepts MC has a harem
Which makes OIAL fit full-harem like a glove, cause everything is in place.
In contrast to that game, this game, the whole A1 to A9, bonding process is missing (or just very little of it if not nonexistent) and the story just skipped right over to girls saying "Oh I'm willing to consider if she's doing it."
That, is just not a good direction to take in terms of LIs' characterization - I mean it may work if these LIs are robots where their emotions/beliefs/thought process are programs to be flipped on or off or as you said, MC being granted godly powers , but otherwise it just opens itself up to criticisms (which several people have made already).
I was playing the game with the walkthrough mod and stumbled on something that piqued my interest. During the confrontation scene, if you pick "I love Nina" the follow-up dialogue choices are 1."I only want you, 2." I'll think about it," and 3."What do you think of it?" The third option was labeled "Harem" by the mod. The second option was labeled "Nina Harem" by the mod. That got me thinking that maybe there was already a variation of a harem route planned by the developer on Nina's route. So essentially, now we might be getting two different harem routes: a vanilla harem and a Nina harem.
I was playing the game with the walkthrough mod and stumbled on something that piqued my interest. During the confrontation scene, if you pick "I love Nina" the follow-up dialogue choices are 1."I only want you, 2." I'll think about it," and 3."What do you think of it?" The third option was labeled "Harem" by the mod. The second option was labeled "Nina Harem" by the mod. That got me thinking that maybe there was already a variation of a harem route planned by the developer on Nina's route. So essentially, now we might be getting two different harem routes: a vanilla harem and a Nina harem.
More likely is that Nina in the "Nina harem" is sort of the ringleader while in the "normal" harem she is present i.e. it is the "base version" before a different girl takes charge.
Maybe since MC "thinks about it" Nina takes it upon herself to build the harem without MC's knowledge.
Keep in mind two things:
#1 The mod goes on variables found in the code
#2 The developer is italian, meaning your thoughts and his don't necessarily line up.
