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Duby501

New Member
Jun 8, 2020
12
6
Hi! Quick question here: I'm having struggles with loading any saves from the 0.5 version. I always get the "An exception has occured" error. Any ideas how to solve it? :(
 

Mar5hall

New Member
Apr 22, 2020
10
7
Hi! Quick question here: I'm having struggles with loading any saves from the 0.5 version. I always get the "An exception has occured" error. Any ideas how to solve it? :(
same here. I'm not new at doing this or anything so i'm not sure.
Code:
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 28, in script
    python hide:
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 28, in <module>
    python hide:
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 35, in _execute_python_hide
    ui.interact()
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\ui.py", line 297, in interact
    rv = renpy.game.interface.interact(roll_forward=roll_forward, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 2702, in interact
    repeat, rv = self.interact_core(preloads=preloads, trans_pause=trans_pause, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 3518, in interact_core
    rv = root_widget.event(ev, x, y, 0)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\transition.py", line 47, in event
    return self.new_widget.event(ev, x, y, st)  # E1101
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\screen.py", line 714, in event
    rv = self.child.event(ev, x, y, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 962, in event
    return handle_click(self.clicked)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 897, in handle_click
    rv = run(action)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 320, in run
    return action(*args, **kwargs)
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\loadsave.py", line 770, in load
    log.unfreeze(roots, label="_after_load")
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1983, in unfreeze
    self.rollback(0, force=True, label=label, greedy=greedy, on_load=True)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1815, in rollback
    self.load_failed()
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1733, in load_failed
    raise Exception("Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?")
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
MurMur 0.6b
Tue Mar 01 05:47:19 2022
 

Tsusaku

Member
Oct 6, 2021
377
403
same here. I'm not new at doing this or anything so i'm not sure.
Code:
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 28, in script
    python hide:
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 28, in <module>
    python hide:
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 35, in _execute_python_hide
    ui.interact()
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\ui.py", line 297, in interact
    rv = renpy.game.interface.interact(roll_forward=roll_forward, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 2702, in interact
    repeat, rv = self.interact_core(preloads=preloads, trans_pause=trans_pause, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 3518, in interact_core
    rv = root_widget.event(ev, x, y, 0)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\transition.py", line 47, in event
    return self.new_widget.event(ev, x, y, st)  # E1101
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\screen.py", line 714, in event
    rv = self.child.event(ev, x, y, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 962, in event
    return handle_click(self.clicked)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 897, in handle_click
    rv = run(action)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 320, in run
    return action(*args, **kwargs)
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\loadsave.py", line 770, in load
    log.unfreeze(roots, label="_after_load")
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1983, in unfreeze
    self.rollback(0, force=True, label=label, greedy=greedy, on_load=True)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1815, in rollback
    self.load_failed()
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1733, in load_failed
    raise Exception("Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?")
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
MurMur 0.6b
Tue Mar 01 05:47:19 2022
Did you tryed the save i uploaded? It's couple of messages back. I myself didn't tryed it, because i am waiting for an actual release and a new WT mod, so i don't know if it works though.
 

Xr8edfalcon

Newbie
Jan 22, 2021
17
56
Hi! Quick question here: I'm having struggles with loading any saves from the 0.5 version. I always get the "An exception has occured" error. Any ideas how to solve it? :(
same here. I'm not new at doing this or anything so i'm not sure.
Code:
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 28, in script
    python hide:
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 28, in <module>
    python hide:
  File "renpy/common/_layout/screen_main_menu.rpym", line 35, in _execute_python_hide
    ui.interact()
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\ui.py", line 297, in interact
    rv = renpy.game.interface.interact(roll_forward=roll_forward, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 2702, in interact
    repeat, rv = self.interact_core(preloads=preloads, trans_pause=trans_pause, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 3518, in interact_core
    rv = root_widget.event(ev, x, y, 0)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\transition.py", line 47, in event
    return self.new_widget.event(ev, x, y, st)  # E1101
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\screen.py", line 714, in event
    rv = self.child.event(ev, x, y, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 962, in event
    return handle_click(self.clicked)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 897, in handle_click
    rv = run(action)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 320, in run
    return action(*args, **kwargs)
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\loadsave.py", line 770, in load
    log.unfreeze(roots, label="_after_load")
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1983, in unfreeze
    self.rollback(0, force=True, label=label, greedy=greedy, on_load=True)
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1815, in rollback
    self.load_failed()
  File "C:\Games\MurMur-0.6b-pc\MurMur-0.6b-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1733, in load_failed
    raise Exception("Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?")
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
MurMur 0.6b
Tue Mar 01 05:47:19 2022
It's because they have the walkthrough mod installed. Those saves won't run without the walkthrough mod being updated aswell.
 

Hordragg

Lesser-Known Mesmer
Donor
Compressor
Apr 2, 2019
3,006
10,765
It's because they have the walkthrough mod installed. Those saves won't run without the walkthrough mod being updated aswell.
Granted, these are highly likely broken due to the wt mod, they won't be fixed by dropping an updated mod into the game.

The problem lies not with the mod's additions to the script files, but with the mod author not having taken care to distribute the original rpyc files as well. As the rpyc files are packaged into an rpa, new ones will be generated in the game's game directory alongside the modded script files. These files however will now contain a new AST, differing from the official one, in turn leading to some saves based upon the former being unable to load on the latter. See for details.

Duby501, Mar5hall, copying the rpyc files from your old game installation into the new one should fix your problem.
 
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Reactions: Mograx

Wisblade

Member
Jul 2, 2019
295
324
Download links are all unusable, except the torrent.
Either 200KB/s or captcha or file too large (over 5GB - so no MEGA download with free account).
Use the MEGASync program instead of the browser download. It works with free accounts, it works better (higher download rate), it will solve your problem AND, if you have a VPN, you can easily bypass the download limit.
 

Wisblade

Member
Jul 2, 2019
295
324
This is the v0.6 beta. AB updates their mod for full releases.

That said, I just dusted off my old MurMur Walkthrough Mod and updated it to v0.6b. If all you need is a walkthrough, feel free to check it out.
Yeah, but it's not a clever move... "No WT mod" implies "no beta play", so beta won't be tested as fast as if everyone could use it. I highly doubt that the delta between beta and public will be a huge deal - way lesser than from one version to another.
And, technically, ALL releases are beta until the final, completed one... So it's nonsense to wait, in particular when the mod kills the possibility to load an old save.
 

Hordragg

Lesser-Known Mesmer
Donor
Compressor
Apr 2, 2019
3,006
10,765
Yeah, but it's not a clever move... "No WT mod" implies "no beta play", so beta won't be tested as fast as if everyone could use it. I highly doubt that the delta between beta and public will be a huge deal - way lesser than from one version to another.
And, technically, ALL releases are beta until the final, completed one... So it's nonsense to wait, in particular when the mod kills the possibility to load an old save.
Implying that the game only sees play because (or for as long as) there is a wt mod available is utter nonsense. Apart from those being perfectly fine playing the game without one, there are also those that simply trawl the script files. Granted, the amount of beta testers that also hold an account here is unknown, it's certainly not all of them. So you get enough people enjoying the content without reliance on a wt mod.
And it's just a technicality, but seeing as this – much like most if not all other games on here – follows an incremental development cycle, neither the product nor any final cycle of each iteration is to be considered 'beta'; that's a separate phase in each cycle.
Please, see this post regarding your last point. People with broken saves won't have their problem disappear by using an updated wt mod.
 

Wisblade

Member
Jul 2, 2019
295
324
Implying that the game only sees play because (or for as long as) there is a wt mod available is utter nonsense. Apart from those being perfectly fine playing the game without one, there are also those that simply trawl the script files. Granted, the amount of beta testers that also hold an account here is unknown, it's certainly not all of them. So you get enough people enjoying the content without reliance on a wt mod.
And it's just a technicality, but seeing as this – much like most if not all other games on here – follows an incremental development cycle, neither the product nor any final cycle of each iteration is to be considered 'beta'; that's a separate phase in each cycle.
Please, see this post regarding your last point. People with broken saves won't have their problem disappear by using an updated wt mod.
The fact that YOU think that the game is perfectly playable without a WT is neither an objective opinion nor absolute truth. Maybe you have such time to test every possible path, or few games to play, and that's nice for you. I don't have such free time and too much games. And it's even more irrelevant because this game don't have single LI paths: it's harem or game over. So there is very little interest in trying "bad" choices... It won't help anybody to stick with a fanboy attitude, saying that the game and/or the dev is right against all odds and that they are both perfect - and that they can't be criticized. It's not constructive. You may obviously do not agree with my point. You cannot dismiss it just because it's not yours, in particular when you don't try to understand it from my position. First rule for a debate: understand the others. Then you can discuss about a compromise suitable for everyone.

It doesn't mean that the game isn't good, or interesting, or anything else. But I need this WT, and following a PDF WT is often annoying AF - at least, I have multiple screens, it helps a little, especially with linear games, but it's quickly a huge mess with sandboxed games - and I don't even speak about getting back to the WT after an update and try to find what you missed. So a mod is definitively the best option, since there is no built-in WT in this game.
Most of the time, an updated mod is required to load properly old saves. When the mod is properly done, obviously, but this is another problem - a mod should NEVER impact saves, in a perfect world, but it often does.

Regarding the incremental dev cycle, again, it's irrelevant for most games... Each time a game break old saves, for example. Or when something is added/modified in older parts. Incremental development means to have the WHOLE project conceived, and implemented parts per parts, with each time a FINAL subpart. And if you came back to older subparts, it's for fixing bugs, not for modifying code and/or architecture and/or API. Since it's my fulltime job to conceive such products, I can tell you that it cannot be done incrementally. The development maybe incremental, but not the global conception - even with an Agile method, otherwise you'll lose a lot of time with breaking changes and reworking code for absolutely no gain, and certainly not quality, and you'll lose a lot of money and your budget will be blown.
But the whole product is still WIP... Or in beta, if you prefer this term. If you can't sold it "as it", then it's not a final product, period.

Now, you missed the whole point: the purpose of a beta is to be tested, if possible by as many people as possible, because only a fraction of them do bug reports - and an even smaller fraction do PERTINENT bug reports, i.e. reproductible ones. If a mod is needed to load old saves, saying that the mod won't be updated until public release - if one appears, cf. my remark about being always a beta until final, completed release - isn't constructive. The big work is to step the version, here from 0.5b to 0.6b, and IF there is a bugfix update, the step will be extremely easy to do in the mod... Dude, we speak about doing a folder DIFF, here, with a three-panel comparison... Any decent merger do that extremely easily - try "Araxis Merge" if you don't believe me.
But during this time waiting for the public version, a lot of players won't be able to test neither the game itself nor the mod. It ruins the purpose of a beta.

So, I used the other WT mod, even if it piss me off to restart the game from the beginning - as I said, it's a waste of time and I would have preferred to do something more interesting with this time. Sadly, this mod isn't linked in OP...
 

Hordragg

Lesser-Known Mesmer
Donor
Compressor
Apr 2, 2019
3,006
10,765
The fact that YOU think that the game is perfectly playable without a WT is neither an objective opinion nor absolute truth. Maybe you have such time to test every possible path, or few games to play, and that's nice for you. I don't have such free time and too much games. And it's even more irrelevant because this game don't have single LI paths: it's harem or game over. So there is very little interest in trying "bad" choices... It won't help anybody to stick with a fanboy attitude, saying that the game and/or the dev is right against all odds and that they are both perfect - and that they can't be criticized. It's not constructive. You may obviously do not agree with my point. You cannot dismiss it just because it's not yours, in particular when you don't try to understand it from my position. First rule for a debate: understand the others. Then you can discuss about a compromise suitable for everyone.

It doesn't mean that the game isn't good, or interesting, or anything else. But I need this WT, and following a PDF WT is often annoying AF - at least, I have multiple screens, it helps a little, especially with linear games, but it's quickly a huge mess with sandboxed games - and I don't even speak about getting back to the WT after an update and try to find what you missed. So a mod is definitively the best option, since there is no built-in WT in this game.
Most of the time, an updated mod is required to load properly old saves. When the mod is properly done, obviously, but this is another problem - a mod should NEVER impact saves, in a perfect world, but it often does.

Regarding the incremental dev cycle, again, it's irrelevant for most games... Each time a game break old saves, for example. Or when something is added/modified in older parts. Incremental development means to have the WHOLE project conceived, and implemented parts per parts, with each time a FINAL subpart. And if you came back to older subparts, it's for fixing bugs, not for modifying code and/or architecture and/or API. Since it's my fulltime job to conceive such products, I can tell you that it cannot be done incrementally. The development maybe incremental, but not the global conception - even with an Agile method, otherwise you'll lose a lot of time with breaking changes and reworking code for absolutely no gain, and certainly not quality, and you'll lose a lot of money and your budget will be blown.
But the whole product is still WIP... Or in beta, if you prefer this term. If you can't sold it "as it", then it's not a final product, period.

Now, you missed the whole point: the purpose of a beta is to be tested, if possible by as many people as possible, because only a fraction of them do bug reports - and an even smaller fraction do PERTINENT bug reports, i.e. reproductible ones. If a mod is needed to load old saves, saying that the mod won't be updated until public release - if one appears, cf. my remark about being always a beta until final, completed release - isn't constructive. The big work is to step the version, here from 0.5b to 0.6b, and IF there is a bugfix update, the step will be extremely easy to do in the mod... Dude, we speak about doing a folder DIFF, here, with a three-panel comparison... Any decent merger do that extremely easily - try "Araxis Merge" if you don't believe me.
But during this time waiting for the public version, a lot of players won't be able to test neither the game itself nor the mod. It ruins the purpose of a beta.

So, I used the other WT mod, even if it piss me off to restart the game from the beginning - as I said, it's a waste of time and I would have preferred to do something more interesting with this time. Sadly, this mod isn't linked in OP...
You should take your own advice to heart, as you clearly did not take the time to read let alone understand my post.

1) I never argued that I don't need a wt mod, but that your conclusion of "No WT mod" implies "no beta play" is heavily flawed. some people won't play the game because they'd be missing the wt mod, yes, but not all of them. Certainly not the ones never setting foot in here, those accessing the beta through Patreon, for instance. Trying to spin my pointing out the flaws in your reasoning into a 'fanboy attitude' is an even greater nonsense than your initial point. And why would you go on about the game and it's creator when this was about the mod's author stance on waiting for the non-beta release to begin with?!

2) Another flawed argument: you're basically saying that game devs don't incrementally develop as they're often going back, changing stuff, and breaking saves. This is anecdotal evidence at best, not a fact. Making it look like changing the product design between cycles as being amateurish isn't very professional of you. There's many an IT project that had to be changed because of customer demands, the passing of new laws, or because a major flaw was uncovered during one of its incremental cycles. That being said, I'm good with you calling an unfinished product a 'beta'.

3) Please reread that last point of mine very carefully: an updated mod won't lead to fixed saves for those whose ones are broken. And it's impossible for the mod author to do anything about it.
 

Wisblade

Member
Jul 2, 2019
295
324
You should take your own advice to heart, as you clearly did not take the time to read let alone understand my post.

1) I never argued that I don't need a wt mod, but that your conclusion of "No WT mod" implies "no beta play" is heavily flawed. some people won't play the game because they'd be missing the wt mod, yes, but not all of them. Certainly not the ones never setting foot in here, those accessing the beta through Patreon, for instance. Trying to spin my pointing out the flaws in your reasoning into a 'fanboy attitude' is an even greater nonsense than your initial point. And why would you go on about the game and it's creator when this was about the mod's author stance on waiting for the non-beta release to begin with?!

2) Another flawed argument: you're basically saying that game devs don't incrementally develop as they're often going back, changing stuff, and breaking saves. This is anecdotal evidence at best, not a fact. Making it look like changing the product design between cycles as being amateurish isn't very professional of you. There's many an IT project that had to be changed because of customer demands, the passing of new laws, or because a major flaw was uncovered during one of its incremental cycles. That being said, I'm good with you calling an unfinished product a 'beta'.

3) Please reread that last point of mine very carefully: an updated mod won't lead to fixed saves for those whose ones are broken. And it's impossible for the mod author to do anything about it.
Just few things, because I already lost too much time: being forced to replay from scratch OR don't have a WT for the new content IS blocking from testing the beta. Again, not everyone have your infinite free time. The fanboy attitude starts when any criticism, even constructive, is immediately dismissed without even trying to understand the other viewpoint. I understand yours, even if I don't agree with, but you didn't reciprocate this elementary courtesy for me and it's why I'm quite upset.

Also, AB's mod does NOT HAVE ITS OWN THREAD. It's a single message in this thread. That's why I posted here - you never noticed this little fact?

And regarding amateur vs. pro, that's why people like me are called "pro" and why someone give us a big amount of money each month. It's not a place to discuss about software architecture - or to teach it - but if you need to break and redo everything each time a customer ask for something, you'll see hell when you'll try to make a generic product sold to multiple customers... Unless you have a senior software architect in your team, obviously.

And I'll tell it again, too: when something is broken by an update, it's ALWAYS possible to get the old data back - it's loaded by the previous version, right? So it can be converted / fixed and new data can be set even if it needs user's input, period. The game itself didn't broke them, so it's the mod - Occam's razor. The best thing would be that mods don't taint the saves, of course. Since I used another WT mod and restarted a new game, the problem is now irrelevant and I'll probably stick with this new one from now on.
 

Hordragg

Lesser-Known Mesmer
Donor
Compressor
Apr 2, 2019
3,006
10,765
Just few things, because I already lost too much time: being forced to replay from scratch OR don't have a WT for the new content IS blocking from testing the beta. Again, not everyone have your infinite free time. The fanboy attitude starts when any criticism, even constructive, is immediately dismissed without even trying to understand the other viewpoint. I understand yours, even if I don't agree with, but you didn't reciprocate this elementary courtesy for me and it's why I'm quite upset.

Also, AB's mod does NOT HAVE ITS OWN THREAD. It's a single message in this thread. That's why I posted here - you never noticed this little fact?

And regarding amateur vs. pro, that's why people like me are called "pro" and why someone give us a big amount of money each month. It's not a place to discuss about software architecture - or to teach it - but if you need to break and redo everything each time a customer ask for something, you'll see hell when you'll try to make a generic product sold to multiple customers... Unless you have a senior software architect in your team, obviously.

And I'll tell it again, too: when something is broken by an update, it's ALWAYS possible to get the old data back - it's loaded by the previous version, right? So it can be converted / fixed and new data can be set even if it needs user's input, period. The game itself didn't broke them, so it's the mod - Occam's razor. The best thing would be that mods don't taint the saves, of course. Since I used another WT mod and restarted a new game, the problem is now irrelevant and I'll probably stick with this new one from now on.
It seems the language barrier plays a huge part in your failing to understand what I'm trying to say, so I'll leave it at one last but very crucial remark:

You've gained nothing by switching mods. Nothing at all.
 
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