Lex Thorson

Newbie
Dec 3, 2017
74
32
You really need to split things into paragraphs dude. Reading that text in one single wall of text is not comfortable for the eyes....

Leaving that aside...

While I can agree that heightened emotions can lead to poor decisions in the moment, the fact of the matter is that Misaki keeps making very dumb decisions even after she has time to calm down and think. At the end of the day, the starting incident just had that one picture of her from the party where she had her legs spread open. She was also just laying on her husband in said picture, so it wasn't that big of a deal.

Now, I can see her making a bad decision in the moment when Aida initially showed her the picture and mentioned that Kurosawa threatened to use it as blackmail material. But after that, I don't remember exactly how much time passed before the bathroom thing was done... but it was more than just one day. I'm pretty sure she didn't know she was pregnant when the initial approach was done, but she knew when the underwear incident happened. There was AMPLE time for her to stop, think, and choose to tell her husband about it. At that point, she'd done NOTHING wrong. The only little justification she had was that learning about it would have soured relations between her husband and Kurosawa... however it wasn't like that would have caused that much of an issue for their family since she was still a clearly very successful beautician at the time.

Of course, we, the readers, know that IF she had done that and they went to the police and stuff, things would have gotten screwy as Kurosawa would definitely point fingers at Aida and Chinnen, and then everyone would have gone into 'covering their ass' mode. Things would have likely exploded badly between those three, but really, the impact on MC and Misaki would have been minimal even IF one of those three tried to spread the picture around. It's not like it was a pic of her having sex or anything...

Same with the underwear incident. Even if she complied in the moment because her emotions were going haywire, there was ample time for her to then chill out and think things through, rather than doubling down on the stupid.

Basically, things shouldn't have gotten to the point where the blowjob thing happened in the first place. I do agree that once things DID get to that point, Misaki was caught between a rock and a hard place that got increasingly worse. Her extreme inexperience with men meant that she had no idea how her husband would react, and she easily expected the worst. On top of that, while she didn't love Aida romantically, he was still someone that helped her a lot when she was younger and thus someone she genuinely cared for and considered a treasured friend, possibly even family. I can accept that she didn't want things to go horrible with him. Once the rape happened, she'd be horribly torn about what to do, on top of having her mind addled by the pleasure... but I still firmly believe that things simply wouldn't have gotten that far if she wasn't extremely stupid.

Hell, you can easily argue that the initial rape shouldn't have happened either. She didn't need to give in to Kurosawa's demands to drink... but really, I lay the blame there more on the MC, who should have absolutely prioritized his wife's wellbeing over the idiocy of the asshole that wanted him to drink. If he just took Misaki back to their room right away and stayed with her while sober, nothing would have happened. I have no doubt that Aida would have likely kept trying for a number of years after that... but eventually he'd run out of opportunities to try or he'd be forced to give up for a variety of reasons. Well, either that or he'd lose his cool and just ends up raping her at some point, but I'm pretty sure that if he did that, things would have ended very badly for him even more so than they do in most endings.

On a different note, I'm still impressed by the fact that, no matter how you look at it, Aida never actually gets what he really wanted no matter what. He never wins Misaki's love and in all the endings, he likely ends up miserable in some form or another. Misery for everyone. Except Kurosawa. That guy has NO fucks to give lol.
Apologies about the lack of paragraphs :oops:

It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to us but perhaps it's more of a deal than we think for Japanese culture.

Keep in mind it wasn't just Misaki being blackmailed but Aida too, as Aida claimed, which could have factored in by making her feel guilty and bad for Aida.

Yes, it seems to be anywhere from 5 days to about 2 weeks (or a little over 2 weeks). However, Aida doesn't say anything about any specific blackmail yet just that Kurokawa wants a date/drink with her. When Misaki refuses, Aida promises to take care of it and she trusts Aida to handle it and probably forgot about the incident.

She is reminded of it in a text message from Aida, directly during her date with the MC, when she revealed her pregnancy to the Oden Stall owner. Misaki then immediately goes to the bathroom to meet with Aida. She was caught completely off guard and had previously forgotten the incident since she trusted Aida. Aida-san claims that Kurokawa threatens to send the picture to Aida-san's business associates if she doesn't give him a Paizuri/Boobjob and a pair of her used underwear, she refuses at first and claims that she will report Kurokawa to the police but when Aida-san insists that her husband will find out if she doesn't give Kurokawa what he wants. She is given less than an hour (10:00 PM) to do so. The possibility of her husband finding out is what causes her to finally give in to the demands and ask if it's bra or panties that Kurokawa wants. Aida-san either tells her both or just the panties. She goes into a stall and takes off the requested underwear and gives it to Aida-san and Aida-san takes a picture of Misaki and the underwear before accepting it as proof that it belongs to Misaki

So Aida made her scared that her husband will find out if she goes to the police, and she didn't want to get the MC involved. She didn't want to cause any problems for him and wanted to deal with it herself.

The thing is that she was conflicted and on a number of occasions she was heavily considering either telling her husband or going to the police or even confronting Kurokawa herself, but Aida would always know about her plans/intentions before she went through with it and would always talk her down and find just the right thing to say to get her to rethink it.

Yes, I agree that things could have been avoided if different decisions were made, just that Misaki wasn't entirely to blame for everything. It was simply the fact that she trusted Aida enough to inform him of any decisions she was making before she made them and thus giving him a chance to persuade her to change her mind, one way or another. So every time she "calmed down and thought about it" as you say, Aida (or something or someone else) would always intervene before she goes through with her resolve.

Yes, that initial rape could have been avoided too, I agree, however the reason she was convinced to drink was due to them using the acting ability of Chinnen to target her big sister weakness. Chinnen seemed like a nice guy who was trying his best to stop the big bully Kurokawa, she felt bad for Chinnen and got pressured into drinking to "save" Chinnen. It was all a big con to get her drunk and drugged.

Yes, the MC should have prioritized his wife and not whatever BS Kurokawa was spouting to get him to drink. Although he would have to remain with Misaki all night because Aida and company might still try to get him to leave the room for one reason or another to get a chance to be with the incapacitated Misaki alone. The MC makes a ton of mistakes himself throughout the novel.

Yes, Aida would have tried again and again, and we cannot be sure of the fact that he wouldn't find another opportunity to succeed with a different plan. He was pretty stubborn and determined and believed that he was the one that was Netorared, since Misaki was his. Of course, he would never truly succeed in the goal of making her truly love him in a romantic sense. Throughout the various endings, he never gave up until the couple literally ran/moved away to get away from Aida's manipulations.

That's right, Aida is doomed to ultimately lose the war, even if he wins the battle.

Yep, Kurokawa was happy just to get a chance to fuck Misaki. He didn't care about dominating or manipulation or making her fall in love.
 

Iexist

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,560
2,295
Apologies about the lack of paragraphs :oops:

It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to us but perhaps it's more of a deal than we think for Japanese culture.

Keep in mind it wasn't just Misaki being blackmailed but Aida too, as Aida claimed, which could have factored in by making her feel guilty and bad for Aida.

Yes, it seems to be anywhere from 5 days to about 2 weeks (or a little over 2 weeks). However, Aida doesn't say anything about any specific blackmail yet just that Kurokawa wants a date/drink with her. When Misaki refuses, Aida promises to take care of it and she trusts Aida to handle it and probably forgot about the incident.

She is reminded of it in a text message from Aida, directly during her date with the MC, when she revealed her pregnancy to the Oden Stall owner. Misaki then immediately goes to the bathroom to meet with Aida. She was caught completely off guard and had previously forgotten the incident since she trusted Aida. Aida-san claims that Kurokawa threatens to send the picture to Aida-san's business associates if she doesn't give him a Paizuri/Boobjob and a pair of her used underwear, she refuses at first and claims that she will report Kurokawa to the police but when Aida-san insists that her husband will find out if she doesn't give Kurokawa what he wants. She is given less than an hour (10:00 PM) to do so. The possibility of her husband finding out is what causes her to finally give in to the demands and ask if it's bra or panties that Kurokawa wants. Aida-san either tells her both or just the panties. She goes into a stall and takes off the requested underwear and gives it to Aida-san and Aida-san takes a picture of Misaki and the underwear before accepting it as proof that it belongs to Misaki

So Aida made her scared that her husband will find out if she goes to the police, and she didn't want to get the MC involved. She didn't want to cause any problems for him and wanted to deal with it herself.

The thing is that she was conflicted and on a number of occasions she was heavily considering either telling her husband or going to the police or even confronting Kurokawa herself, but Aida would always know about her plans/intentions before she went through with it and would always talk her down and find just the right thing to say to get her to rethink it.

Yes, I agree that things could have been avoided if different decisions were made, just that Misaki wasn't entirely to blame for everything. It was simply the fact that she trusted Aida enough to inform him of any decisions she was making before she made them and thus giving him a chance to persuade her to change her mind, one way or another. So every time she "calmed down and thought about it" as you say, Aida (or something or someone else) would always intervene before she goes through with her resolve.

Yes, that initial rape could have been avoided too, I agree, however the reason she was convinced to drink was due to them using the acting ability of Chinnen to target her big sister weakness. Chinnen seemed like a nice guy who was trying his best to stop the big bully Kurokawa, she felt bad for Chinnen and got pressured into drinking to "save" Chinnen. It was all a big con to get her drunk and drugged.

Yes, the MC should have prioritized his wife and not whatever BS Kurokawa was spouting to get him to drink. Although he would have to remain with Misaki all night because Aida and company might still try to get him to leave the room for one reason or another to get a chance to be with the incapacitated Misaki alone. The MC makes a ton of mistakes himself throughout the novel.

Yes, Aida would have tried again and again, and we cannot be sure of the fact that he wouldn't find another opportunity to succeed with a different plan. He was pretty stubborn and determined and believed that he was the one that was Netorared, since Misaki was his. Of course, he would never truly succeed in the goal of making her truly love him in a romantic sense. Throughout the various endings, he never gave up until the couple literally ran/moved away to get away from Aida's manipulations.

That's right, Aida is doomed to ultimately lose the war, even if he wins the battle.

Yep, Kurokawa was happy just to get a chance to fuck Misaki. He didn't care about dominating or manipulation or making her fall in love.
I can't really agree with you here because ending 2/3 (They're really the same ending, just from different perspectives), and endings 4/5 exist. In ending 2/3, MC notices that Misaki is missing her bra and confronts her about it, and expresses a lot of caring about her which shows just how much he loves her. This forces Misaki to realize how much of an idiot she's being and that what she's doing would affect the MC anyway, and then MC goes to talk to Aida, already suspicious that something weird was going on. Then the cum filled panties are found and things explode, then conclude with Misaki and MC leaving as far as physically possible from where Aida lives, the two of them ending up happy on a farm together, essentially in the middle of nowhere.

The point here is that when it comes to ending 2/3, Misaki is forced to realize that she's being a dumbass and that her husband AND her child were going to be affected anyway, no matter what she did. Somehow, she never stops to think about that. Ever. Which is dumb. It's EXTREMELY dumb. It's not like they were newlyweds at that point. They'd been married for 3 years at that point. By then, any couple learns that you need to communicate with one another or things get complicated. This is because living together will make a pair run into all sorts of small situations that can easily lead to conflict when sharing the same living space if they don't talk it out a bit. One of the first things any long-term couple learns is that you don't make important decisions that can affect the whole family without discussing it with your partner first.

Then there's endings 4 and 5, where Aida fails to make Misaki frustrated enough to sleep in bed with him and get fucked by him. Misaki goes home, and clearly tells the MC everything, because not long after the thing where he gets a boobjob from Misaki and cums all over her face, the two of them fuck off all of a sudden and this time, there's no clue at all where they went. Clearly, somehow, ONLY in this chain of events, Misaki had the the brain spark to realize that things were going in a bad direction, talk things out with the MC, and then the two of them just close down their respective businesses and disappear. It's notable that this happens AFTER Aida already raped Misaki right outside of her own bathroom where MC was taking a bath and had her cum.

So somehow, ONLY in this chain of events, she gets the clarity of mind to do this, when she was already under much heavier emotional duress than before AND she was in a situation where the MC had much more of a reason to hate her than before. She'd given Aida a blowjob, got fucked by him without calling for help in their own home, gave him a boobjob essentially of her own free will. Many, MANY more reasons for MC to outright hate her and want a divorce than any of the previous incidents.

The fact is that with Misaki's previous and later lines of thinking, endings 4 and 5 simply don't make any sense. Why would she come to her senses THEN, but couldn't at any time before? It's ridiculous and inconsistent.

Basically, I can't agree with your point. I can see why you'd view it that way, but I simply can't agree with it. I can only view Misaki as stupid in terms of her original choices before she became a pleasure addict. Even our clueless MC, who doesn't really have any good emotional control and we're shown that VERY clearly throughout the VN, is intelligent enough to realize that something is screwy with the whole thing when he hears about it. Somehow, Misaki doesn't question things at all, ever, which is extremely bizarre for anyone with any normal level of intelligence.

The fact of the matter is that Misaki's just dumb. Very dumb. Not unbelievably dumb though... I've met plenty of people that are dumb in various ways and her stupidity doesn't stand out that much to me. I actually knew a guy that was kind of like Misaki, who just made stupid choices in social contexts and no matter how calm and relaxed he was, he just couldn't have the lightbulb moment on his own. I'm not gonna give examples, because that'd require going way off topic AND sharing stuff that shouldn't be shared on the Internet to strangers... but suffice to say that I've seen some shit that's in some ways in the category of "life is stranger than fiction".

Oh, and this is the thing that I should probably clarify. Regardless of what my wording may imply, I do think that Misaki is for the most part a consistent and believable character. While her level of stupidity is uncommon, it is not impossible, people like her do exist in reality.

It's not necessarily bad writing that she's stupid, though I personally perceive it as lazy, and as I mentioned in my initial post, it lessens the impact of Aida's scheme significantly. Aida basically has the deck stacked on his side to a ridiculous degree, and because of that, the story, at least for me, loses some of its quality because it looks less like he properly worked to get his cake, and more like he got stupidly lucky to end up with an extremely weak enemy (the MC), extremely weak prey (Misaki) and ultimately decently strong allies (Kurokawa and Chinnen). It was basically a perfect storm type thing. Or divine intervention, I suppose.

Essentially, I enjoy these types of stories more when the character that's doing the stealing or attempted stealing isn't essentially playing on easy mode... and Aida was absolutely playing on easy mode for the most part with the only thing giving him real difficulty being the fact that he didn't have many opportunities to come into prolonged contact with Misaki to work on her. Not until the whole blackmail shenanigans happened anyway.

As for how many more opportunities he'd have gotten if the Inn attempt failed... It's really hard to say tbh. He could only make the initial attempt because Kurokawa and Chinnen were cooperating with him, however, with that scheme failing, it's difficult to say if the two would have kept it up for much longer. I do accept that Misaki's fall to the drink was pretty unlikely to be avoided, but MC not prioritizing his wife was extremely poor decision making on his part even without him knowing that anything was wrong, and I doubt the three would have been able to do anything without appearing to be extremely suspicious about things. After all, Aida was supposed to be both sick and dead drunk, and so was Chinnen. Either of them showing up at their room would have set off alarms even for the MC, and he had no reason to give a single flying fuck about Kurokawa... who should have been extremely drunk anyway.

It's notable that it took him 6 years to get that opportunity, and who can say how long it'd take to get another even IF he could secure the necessary allies to try again. Or if he'd get another opportunity at all.

So eh. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to our stances on Misaki's character and overall intelligence level. At the end of the day, either of us can be theoretically right, but there's no way to tell because the VN doesn't at any point show us her perspective. Without that, it's impossible to accurately pin down her mental processes since we don't get any examples of her trains of thought the way we do with the MC, Aida and to an extent Shiobara.

As is, how much any of these are a problem is also a matter of personal suspension of disbelief. Stories focused on Netorare always have a number of extremely improbable things in them, and a lot of them are cliches or have been cliches for a long time. Ultimately, these type of stories are REALLY hard to make work in any real sense without shenanigans, and they work better in settings with magic or superscience or the like tbh, where you can more easily arrange someone's fall to pleasure without making the characters involved have very obvious and specific weaknesses that border on the ridiculous.

That said, it's honestly kind of weird to me that there don't seem to be more netorare stories in those types of settings. It feels like the majority of these stories are focused on modern settings, or at least ones that attempt to be closer to reality.
 

Lex Thorson

Newbie
Dec 3, 2017
74
32
I can't really agree with you here because ending 2/3 (They're really the same ending, just from different perspectives), and endings 4/5 exist. In ending 2/3, MC notices that Misaki is missing her bra and confronts her about it, and expresses a lot of caring about her which shows just how much he loves her. This forces Misaki to realize how much of an idiot she's being and that what she's doing would affect the MC anyway, and then MC goes to talk to Aida, already suspicious that something weird was going on. Then the cum filled panties are found and things explode, then conclude with Misaki and MC leaving as far as physically possible from where Aida lives, the two of them ending up happy on a farm together, essentially in the middle of nowhere.

The point here is that when it comes to ending 2/3, Misaki is forced to realize that she's being a dumbass and that her husband AND her child were going to be affected anyway, no matter what she did. Somehow, she never stops to think about that. Ever. Which is dumb. It's EXTREMELY dumb. It's not like they were newlyweds at that point. They'd been married for 3 years at that point. By then, any couple learns that you need to communicate with one another or things get complicated. This is because living together will make a pair run into all sorts of small situations that can easily lead to conflict when sharing the same living space if they don't talk it out a bit. One of the first things any long-term couple learns is that you don't make important decisions that can affect the whole family without discussing it with your partner first.

Then there's endings 4 and 5, where Aida fails to make Misaki frustrated enough to sleep in bed with him and get fucked by him. Misaki goes home, and clearly tells the MC everything, because not long after the thing where he gets a boobjob from Misaki and cums all over her face, the two of them fuck off all of a sudden and this time, there's no clue at all where they went. Clearly, somehow, ONLY in this chain of events, Misaki had the the brain spark to realize that things were going in a bad direction, talk things out with the MC, and then the two of them just close down their respective businesses and disappear. It's notable that this happens AFTER Aida already raped Misaki right outside of her own bathroom where MC was taking a bath and had her cum.

So somehow, ONLY in this chain of events, she gets the clarity of mind to do this, when she was already under much heavier emotional duress than before AND she was in a situation where the MC had much more of a reason to hate her than before. She'd given Aida a blowjob, got fucked by him without calling for help in their own home, gave him a boobjob essentially of her own free will. Many, MANY more reasons for MC to outright hate her and want a divorce than any of the previous incidents.

The fact is that with Misaki's previous and later lines of thinking, endings 4 and 5 simply don't make any sense. Why would she come to her senses THEN, but couldn't at any time before? It's ridiculous and inconsistent.

Basically, I can't agree with your point. I can see why you'd view it that way, but I simply can't agree with it. I can only view Misaki as stupid in terms of her original choices before she became a pleasure addict. Even our clueless MC, who doesn't really have any good emotional control and we're shown that VERY clearly throughout the VN, is intelligent enough to realize that something is screwy with the whole thing when he hears about it. Somehow, Misaki doesn't question things at all, ever, which is extremely bizarre for anyone with any normal level of intelligence.

The fact of the matter is that Misaki's just dumb. Very dumb. Not unbelievably dumb though... I've met plenty of people that are dumb in various ways and her stupidity doesn't stand out that much to me. I actually knew a guy that was kind of like Misaki, who just made stupid choices in social contexts and no matter how calm and relaxed he was, he just couldn't have the lightbulb moment on his own. I'm not gonna give examples, because that'd require going way off topic AND sharing stuff that shouldn't be shared on the Internet to strangers... but suffice to say that I've seen some shit that's in some ways in the category of "life is stranger than fiction".

Oh, and this is the thing that I should probably clarify. Regardless of what my wording may imply, I do think that Misaki is for the most part a consistent and believable character. While her level of stupidity is uncommon, it is not impossible, people like her do exist in reality.

It's not necessarily bad writing that she's stupid, though I personally perceive it as lazy, and as I mentioned in my initial post, it lessens the impact of Aida's scheme significantly. Aida basically has the deck stacked on his side to a ridiculous degree, and because of that, the story, at least for me, loses some of its quality because it looks less like he properly worked to get his cake, and more like he got stupidly lucky to end up with an extremely weak enemy (the MC), extremely weak prey (Misaki) and ultimately decently strong allies (Kurokawa and Chinnen). It was basically a perfect storm type thing. Or divine intervention, I suppose.

Essentially, I enjoy these types of stories more when the character that's doing the stealing or attempted stealing isn't essentially playing on easy mode... and Aida was absolutely playing on easy mode for the most part with the only thing giving him real difficulty being the fact that he didn't have many opportunities to come into prolonged contact with Misaki to work on her. Not until the whole blackmail shenanigans happened anyway.

As for how many more opportunities he'd have gotten if the Inn attempt failed... It's really hard to say tbh. He could only make the initial attempt because Kurokawa and Chinnen were cooperating with him, however, with that scheme failing, it's difficult to say if the two would have kept it up for much longer. I do accept that Misaki's fall to the drink was pretty unlikely to be avoided, but MC not prioritizing his wife was extremely poor decision making on his part even without him knowing that anything was wrong, and I doubt the three would have been able to do anything without appearing to be extremely suspicious about things. After all, Aida was supposed to be both sick and dead drunk, and so was Chinnen. Either of them showing up at their room would have set off alarms even for the MC, and he had no reason to give a single flying fuck about Kurokawa... who should have been extremely drunk anyway.

It's notable that it took him 6 years to get that opportunity, and who can say how long it'd take to get another even IF he could secure the necessary allies to try again. Or if he'd get another opportunity at all.

So eh. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to our stances on Misaki's character and overall intelligence level. At the end of the day, either of us can be theoretically right, but there's no way to tell because the VN doesn't at any point show us her perspective. Without that, it's impossible to accurately pin down her mental processes since we don't get any examples of her trains of thought the way we do with the MC, Aida and to an extent Shiobara.

As is, how much any of these are a problem is also a matter of personal suspension of disbelief. Stories focused on Netorare always have a number of extremely improbable things in them, and a lot of them are cliches or have been cliches for a long time. Ultimately, these type of stories are REALLY hard to make work in any real sense without shenanigans, and they work better in settings with magic or superscience or the like tbh, where you can more easily arrange someone's fall to pleasure without making the characters involved have very obvious and specific weaknesses that border on the ridiculous.

That said, it's honestly kind of weird to me that there don't seem to be more netorare stories in those types of settings. It feels like the majority of these stories are focused on modern settings, or at least ones that attempt to be closer to reality.
I do agree that neither she nor the MC made the best or wisest decisions or with the best judgement, just that she is not a bad person or a willing cheater and I want to give her the benefit of the doubt that there were probably more factors that went into it that we are missing. I don't think she gave Aida a boobjob just because she wanted to but because Aida knew what he was doing and tricked and manipulated her into doing it through guilt by making her pity him and feel sorry/bad for him.

Communication in a relationship is important, you are correct, but for some reason they didn't seem to have much of that, at least during these events. Maybe it didn't occur to them because they were both shy and inexperienced with relationships, and it may have never been needed because they naturally got along with each other. It also took them longer than average to reach each stage of the relationship. So even though they were together for 6 years at the time of the 1st incident and onwards, they were still less experienced than other couples of that many years would be.

I think she made the right choice in endings 2 and 3 because the MC took the initiative and questioned her, make her come to a great realization/revelation that she didn't receive in some other paths.

In END 4, Kurokawa betrays Aida, which is what let's the MC know what's going on and gives him access to Aida's apartment. The MC informs Misaki of the truth as he beats Aida up, opening her eyes.

In END 5, Aida falls asleep after satisfying only himself, and during this time, Misaki is given a chance to calm down and think things though, like a post-orgasm clarity. She feels guilty about what she just did and without Aida having the opportunity to talk her out of it (being that he's asleep) she finally gets the opportunity to go through with it and confront her husband without Aida's intervention. After that, she doesn't risk being alone with Aida any more and avoids him, even though she would have no way of knowing yet that Aida was behind everything, so perhaps she just didn't want to take any chances of him begging or persuading her for any more sexual acts or forcing himself on her.

I do see your point but she probably trusted Aida too much to consider the possibility of any deception or foul play. She is very trusting, and it wasn't just Aida that benefited from it. You got to feel bad for her for how many people that she trusted so deeply ended up betraying her in an Aizen-like way.

I do agree it was easy in some ways, and he did get lucky in some regards as well, but not necessarily everything was in his favor. Things weren't working out for him in the first 6 years of Misaki and the MC's relationship, not to mention all the time before the MC even met Misaki. Aida had literally YEARS, since back when Misaki was still a minor, to influence her and he still failed to get her to go out with him. Alot of his early plans in the story didn't work the way he intended and instead brought the MC and Misaki together.

Oh yeah, it should have been suspicious that Chinnen was one of the one's carrying Misaki and the MC, even though he should have been super drunk himself. I blame the MC for most of what happened, since he could have easily prevented alot of this from happening. He could have stopped this at any time through communication. I sympathize with Misaki because I have personally in a bad situation where I was too afraid to confess the truth of what was going on because I was afraid of the consequences and what might happen and things were just getting worse and worse, which made telling the truth harder and harder. None of it had anything to do with sex or cheating or anything but the similarities in experiences does hit home

I agree with you that we badly need Misaki's POV to finally get the answers that we want. In Ending 02 is the only sample of Misaki's POV that we see, when the MC confronts her about the bra. He always begs for one last favor and says that it's the last time, he promises, and unfortunately she keeps believing and trusting him.

Yes, you're right, I am sure the writers did their best but it can be tough to write such a story without the main characters making some bad mistakes with poor judgement and awareness. True, that perhaps the use of magic, hypnosis, or powerful drugs would make things easier to make such a story work.
 

Iexist

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,560
2,295
I do agree that neither she nor the MC made the best or wisest decisions or with the best judgement, just that she is not a bad person or a willing cheater and I want to give her the benefit of the doubt that there were probably more factors that went into it that we are missing. I don't think she gave Aida a boobjob just because she wanted to but because Aida knew what he was doing and tricked and manipulated her into doing it through guilt by making her pity him and feel sorry/bad for him.

Communication in a relationship is important, you are correct, but for some reason they didn't seem to have much of that, at least during these events. Maybe it didn't occur to them because they were both shy and inexperienced with relationships, and it may have never been needed because they naturally got along with each other. It also took them longer than average to reach each stage of the relationship. So even though they were together for 6 years at the time of the 1st incident and onwards, they were still less experienced than other couples of that many years would be.

I think she made the right choice in endings 2 and 3 because the MC took the initiative and questioned her, make her come to a great realization/revelation that she didn't receive in some other paths.

In END 4, Kurokawa betrays Aida, which is what let's the MC know what's going on and gives him access to Aida's apartment. The MC informs Misaki of the truth as he beats Aida up, opening her eyes.

In END 5, Aida falls asleep after satisfying only himself, and during this time, Misaki is given a chance to calm down and think things though, like a post-orgasm clarity. She feels guilty about what she just did and without Aida having the opportunity to talk her out of it (being that he's asleep) she finally gets the opportunity to go through with it and confront her husband without Aida's intervention. After that, she doesn't risk being alone with Aida any more and avoids him, even though she would have no way of knowing yet that Aida was behind everything, so perhaps she just didn't want to take any chances of him begging or persuading her for any more sexual acts or forcing himself on her.

I do see your point but she probably trusted Aida too much to consider the possibility of any deception or foul play. She is very trusting, and it wasn't just Aida that benefited from it. You got to feel bad for her for how many people that she trusted so deeply ended up betraying her in an Aizen-like way.

I do agree it was easy in some ways, and he did get lucky in some regards as well, but not necessarily everything was in his favor. Things weren't working out for him in the first 6 years of Misaki and the MC's relationship, not to mention all the time before the MC even met Misaki. Aida had literally YEARS, since back when Misaki was still a minor, to influence her and he still failed to get her to go out with him. Alot of his early plans in the story didn't work the way he intended and instead brought the MC and Misaki together.

Oh yeah, it should have been suspicious that Chinnen was one of the one's carrying Misaki and the MC, even though he should have been super drunk himself. I blame the MC for most of what happened, since he could have easily prevented alot of this from happening. He could have stopped this at any time through communication. I sympathize with Misaki because I have personally in a bad situation where I was too afraid to confess the truth of what was going on because I was afraid of the consequences and what might happen and things were just getting worse and worse, which made telling the truth harder and harder. None of it had anything to do with sex or cheating or anything but the similarities in experiences does hit home

I agree with you that we badly need Misaki's POV to finally get the answers that we want. In Ending 02 is the only sample of Misaki's POV that we see, when the MC confronts her about the bra. He always begs for one last favor and says that it's the last time, he promises, and unfortunately she keeps believing and trusting him.

Yes, you're right, I am sure the writers did their best but it can be tough to write such a story without the main characters making some bad mistakes with poor judgement and awareness. True, that perhaps the use of magic, hypnosis, or powerful drugs would make things easier to make such a story work.
Well, I'll address a number of points here.

First, I definitely agree that Misaki is a good person. Being stupid doesn't make you a bad person. Much like being intelligent doesn't make you a good person. Indeed, in life, I've met more people that were kinder and nicer that are of under average intelligence in various ways... and plenty of people who are quite intelligent but are also complete assholes and said intelligence just makes things worse. MC and Misaki are both good people. I'd say that they're above average in terms of how good they are. Regardless of the mistakes she makes, Misaki always had the best of intentions... she just lacked the ability to think things through even when she had the time for it.

Secondly. I disagree with you on the communication aspect. At the time of the incident, MC and Misaki were in sync enough to actually communicate nonverbally to an extent. That's not something that develops in couples that have issues communicating. Indeed, Misaki doesn't even lose that skill when she's deep in Aida's conditioning. She recognizes what MC was trying to tell her during the second banquet with ease, but can't answer it because of Aida's orders at the time. We're shown plenty of instances where they talked and how close they were and how they shared their dreams and whatnot. I don't think that they didn't properly develop the ability to communicate or the understanding of its importance. It's just that Misaki was simply not smart enough to understand how important the situation she was getting into was.

As for Ending 2/3, I know WHY it went that way. I stated as such in my previous reply. I was mainly using it as an example to illustrate that Misaki simply didn't think on her own about the consequences of her own actions until she was pushed into it. I was also using it to highlight that her way of thinking is not normal. Understandable, perhaps, but I do not think that it's the normal reaction a wife would take in that situation if she was of average intelligence.

When it comes to endings 4 and 5, my mind was more focused on the "fucked off into the sunset" part, but it still makes ending 5 extremely abnormal. Why was the boobjob too much, but the rape in her own home wasn't? Or the blowjob? Or any of the previous incidents? She DID have the time before to think without Aida's intervention. The story makes it clear that she had ample time to think between a number of these incidents and could have told her husband at any point. However, she didn't. Personally, ending 5 is perhaps the most jarring of the lot, because it just doesn't fit with Misaki's displayed stupidity until that point.

Also, I can contrast things with how MC acts and thinks under emotional duress too, and while he's not the smartest person on the planet, I don't think he's as stupid as Misaki. Even when under emotional duress, he clearly at least things about some of the potential consequences of his actions... and unlike Misaki, he never forgets that his actions could also severely impact their son.

Either way, me calling Misaki dumb doesn't mean I couldn't sympathize with her if I wanted too, as much as that's possible for me when it comes to a hentai character in a netorare focused VN of all things. However, I'm not gonna excuse what to me, is both her biggest flaw and the biggest cliche they used for the heroine in a NTR story. The girl being dumb to some degree or another is a pretty typical flaw for a heroine in a NTR type story, and I've seen enough of them by now to say that the way it's executed varies a lot, but it's rarely not present unless the story can simply make it impossible for the heroine's intelligence to matter.

That said, I have to detract points from her because, in both the Fin 1 and Fin2 paths, she has multiple endings where she just runs away. While the Owner's manipulations are to blame in part, the fact of the matter is that she doesn't stop to think about her son by the looks of things. Regardless of who the father is, she just becomes and absentee mother, rather than face her issues with her husband... The problem with that is that you either have to go with the idea that she's stupid enough to actually think that her son would be better off without her in the picture at all... which is never true unless the missing parent is an abusive turd or some such. Or you have to go with the idea that while she loved her husband, she didn't really love her own son, which doesn't really fit with what we've seen of her character, when she can care for people that she's not related to at all.

So yeah. Stupid. It's really the only answer that really solves all the issues without going into directions that make her character into some kind of monster.

In any case, there's little doubt that everyone's perspectives on the characters is colored by their own personal experience. I've been exposed to people of varying levels of intelligence and Misaki's decision making process both when she has a cool head and while she's under duress of some kind is extremely poor to me. It denotes a lack of intelligence. By that same token, I've also known a lot of intelligent people, including at least one person that I'd classify as a genius, so it's not entirely improbable that my view of what "average intelligence" is or should be is skewed.

As I mentioned before. I firmly think that either of us could be right in theory, and without a more in depth look at Misaki's thinking process, we will never know for sure the answer. Possibly not even then, given that we'd only have a limited amount of information to work with.

Either way, I don't think there's much either of can say to change the other's mind when it comes to Misaki's intelligence or lack thereof.
 
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poipoi

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When it comes to endings 4 and 5, my mind was more focused on the "fucked off into the sunset" part, but it still makes ending 5 extremely abnormal. Why was the boobjob too much, but the rape in her own home wasn't? Or the blowjob? Or any of the previous incidents? She DID have the time before to think without Aida's intervention. The story makes it clear that she had ample time to think between a number of these incidents and could have told her husband at any point. However, she didn't. Personally, ending 5 is perhaps the most jarring of the lot, because it just doesn't fit with Misaki's displayed stupidity until that point.
I didn't read the whole discussion but that was the choice between boobjob and cunnigulus, right? My impression at the time was that it's a choice between something that's awkward for Misaki and a thing that made her cum, her first oral experience. That would explain an entirely different attitude.
 

Iexist

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I didn't read the whole discussion but that was the choice between boobjob and cunnigulus, right? My impression at the time was that it's a choice between something that's awkward for Misaki and a thing that made her cum, her first oral experience. That would explain an entirely different attitude.
No, endings 4 and 5 are triggered by using the same choice. Boob-job, and have Aida cum. The difference between them is caused by a much earlier choice. That is to say, Aida's choice on whether he lets the other guys stay in the room or not when he rapes Misaki for the first time. If you choose boobjob and not cumming, the story continues and Misaki gives in to Aida because she feels guilty over him not cumming, on top of her nympho tendencies taking control. It leads to the same outcome as choosing to have Aida eat her out. This because Aida stops before Misaki can cum, heightening her sexual frustration.

Endings 4 and 5, much like endings 2 and 3, are almost the same ending. The main difference between 4 and 5 is just how badly screwed Aida is, because in ending 4, Kurokawa also spill the beans on Aida's shenanigans, because Aida keeps failing to deliver on their deal. That is to say, he keeps failing to actually let Kurokawa fuck Misaki as well and he gets sick of being strung along with no incentives other than monetary ones.
 

Lex Thorson

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No, endings 4 and 5 are triggered by using the same choice. Boob-job, and have Aida cum. The difference between them is caused by a much earlier choice. That is to say, Aida's choice on whether he lets the other guys stay in the room or not when he rapes Misaki for the first time. If you choose boobjob and not cumming, the story continues and Misaki gives in to Aida because she feels guilty over him not cumming, on top of her nympho tendencies taking control. It leads to the same outcome as choosing to have Aida eat her out. This because Aida stops before Misaki can cum, heightening her sexual frustration.

Endings 4 and 5, much like endings 2 and 3, are almost the same ending. The main difference between 4 and 5 is just how badly screwed Aida is, because in ending 4, Kurokawa also spill the beans on Aida's shenanigans, because Aida keeps failing to deliver on their deal. That is to say, he keeps failing to actually let Kurokawa fuck Misaki as well and he gets sick of being strung along with no incentives other than monetary ones.
Endings 4 and 5 are dependent on two factors: Whether Kurokawa betrays Aida and whether Aida successfully sexually frustrates Misaki over satisfying himself or not. If Kurokawa betrays Aida, you get END 04, the rest doesn't matter because the MC will intervene regardless of what choice you pick. Without Kurokawa's betrayal and the MC's intervention, it would lead to END 05 if Aida does cum during the boobjob. Any other option will continue the story, you can see that in the walkthrough. The change in Misaki's behavior between END 05 and the continuation of the game, is that Aida manipulates her by intentionally making her horny and frustrated. He explains his entire thought process during that moment.

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Lex Thorson

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I don't think Misaki did much of anything in that divorce ending it was all Aida and his father. Misaki and the MC never even saw each other face to face. Nothing in what I read suggested that the MC and Misaki were ever both at court at the same time or ever saw each other again, at least not for 20 years.
 

Iexist

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I don't think Misaki did much of anything in that divorce ending it was all Aida and his father. Misaki and the MC never even saw each other face to face. Nothing in what I read suggested that the MC and Misaki were ever both at court at the same time or ever saw each other again, at least not for 20 years.
I honestly don't know enough about the Japanese legal system to even try to guess whether the divorce endings make any sense or not. Or rather, I can understand the part where Aida could convince Misaki to sign the divorce papers by making her think that there's no way that the MC will take her back. However, I do not understand the part where the MC is accused of domestic abuse and it somehow sticks.

Even in this post-communist shit-hole of a country that I live in, even if someone very influential points the finger at you and accuses you of domestic abuse, and even if they have a few hanger-ons blabbing the same stupidity... they wouldn't be able to make it stick if it's not true. These things get investigated. The wife is talked too and evaluated by a psych for emotional abuse. Her body is examined for physical abuse. Neighbors, friends, parents and more are interviewed.

It's an entire shit-show. It has to be an entire shit-show, because false accusations with ill intent for stuff like this ARE very much a thing in the entire world. Of course, just having the accusation made can cause trouble socially even if it's proven without a doubt that it was all bullshit, and I imagine that'd be even worse in Japan.

However, basically, unless the Japanese legal system is horrifically warped, it should be impossible to make an accusation like that stick without Misaki's cooperation and the cooperation of a lot more people than just Aida, Kurokawa and Chinnen. While Aida and his company had a lot of money, they didn't have THAT much money, and it strains credulity that they could bribe their way through this. If Aida had that kind of reach, he wouldn't have needed to care about Kurokawa's betrayal to begin with.

So yeeah... I personally just couldn't take those endings seriously. My brain simply refused to make sense of them as they were. I don't want to believe that a country like Japan could have a worse legal system than the corrupt shit-hole I live in.
 

Lex Thorson

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I honestly don't know enough about the Japanese legal system to even try to guess whether the divorce endings make any sense or not. Or rather, I can understand the part where Aida could convince Misaki to sign the divorce papers by making her think that there's no way that the MC will take her back. However, I do not understand the part where the MC is accused of domestic abuse and it somehow sticks.

Even in this post-communist shit-hole of a country that I live in, even if someone very influential points the finger at you and accuses you of domestic abuse, and even if they have a few hanger-ons blabbing the same stupidity... they wouldn't be able to make it stick if it's not true. These things get investigated. The wife is talked too and evaluated by a psych for emotional abuse. Her body is examined for physical abuse. Neighbors, friends, parents and more are interviewed.

It's an entire shit-show. It has to be an entire shit-show, because false accusations with ill intent for stuff like this ARE very much a thing in the entire world. Of course, just having the accusation made can cause trouble socially even if it's proven without a doubt that it was all bullshit, and I imagine that'd be even worse in Japan.

However, basically, unless the Japanese legal system is horrifically warped, it should be impossible to make an accusation like that stick without Misaki's cooperation and the cooperation of a lot more people than just Aida, Kurokawa and Chinnen. While Aida and his company had a lot of money, they didn't have THAT much money, and it strains credulity that they could bribe their way through this. If Aida had that kind of reach, he wouldn't have needed to care about Kurokawa's betrayal to begin with.

So yeeah... I personally just couldn't take those endings seriously. My brain simply refused to make sense of them as they were. I don't want to believe that a country like Japan could have a worse legal system than the corrupt shit-hole I live in.
That is a good question, if Misaki was checked for abuse, she was actually abused, but by Aida himself and not the MC, if the investigators could differientiate that... They might just assume that it was the MC's doing.

Aida may not, but his father had significantly more influence than Aida, and he did get personally involved. The father doesn't always take Aida's side in some if the endings, instead he ends up punishing Aida and demoting him. However, in the divorce endings, he seems to take Aida's side. I believe Shiobara understands how it all works and tried to explain it to the MC, when he was explaining why they need Kurokawa and Chinnen's help.
 
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Iexist

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That is a good question, if Misaki was checked for abuse, she was actually abused, but by Aida himself and not the MC, if the investigators could differientiate that...

Aida may not, but his father had significantly more influence than Aida, and he did get personally involved. The father doesn't always take Aida's side in some if the endings, instead he ends up punishing Aida and demoting him. However, in the divorce endings, he seems to take Aida's side. I believe Shiobara understands how it all works and tried to explain it to the MC, when he was explaining why they need Kurokawa and Chinnen's help.
While forensics aren't as magical as movies make them to be, an abuse victim will have skill cells and hairs from the attacker. It'd be even worse with Misaki on account of the fact that she hadn't been sleeping with the MC for long periods of time and stuff because of Aida's shenanigans. Hell, the investigations could even find Aida's semen in her if he wasn't careful, and he does show at plenty of times that he's careless about that sort of thing.

However.

After stopping to think about things for a while... There is ONE way this could happen, and it'd highlight just how petty of a person Aida is.

Basically, one way to make this sort of thing stick is if Misaki disappears from the equation and can't be interviewed at all. What I think happened is that Misaki did the same thing she did in the Fin 02 branch. She ran off and hid with the Owner, only after signing the divorce papers. Hell, it's possible that she did NOT sign them and her signature was transplanted on them from a different document. It's actually stupidly easy to do if you have the patience to figure it out... What's important here is that she vanishes and Aida, out of his hatred of the MC, drops the domestic abuse accusations.

With Misaki missing and the divorce papers presumably being signed willingly, the police would be much easier to convince that something iffy was going on in that house, and they wouldn't have any reason to tell MC that Misaki was actually missing, since they'd want to protect her from him until they figure out wtf is going on.

The tragic thing here is that in this case, their son likely ended up as a ward of the state in those endings, because I don't see that bastard Aida taking care of him even IF it turned out that the kid was his.

The reason I think this is what happened is because endings 00 and 01 are VERY unclear about what happened directly after the incident where MC discovers what was happening and chooses to intervene. All they say is that he kicked all three until they were unconscious and that it turned into a mess... However, the endings notably do NOT say anything about what Misaki did. They're extremely vague about what happened with her or how she acted or anything.

Then there's that one ending from the Fin01 branch, Ending 06 if my memory isn't failing me, that's basically ending 01 extended, which also shows Misaki at the Owner's place once the MC is 50 and whatnot.

So that's what I think happened. I think Misaki ran away from Aida, and Aida out of sheer spite did the whole domestic abuse thing just to fuck the MC over and ensure that it was extremely unlikely that the two could get back together ever again.

Either way, leaving aside how bad it is for the MC, there's still something highly amusing about the fact that Aida never actually wins no matter what he does.
 
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stupid_army

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Yeah i feel like that bad ending where Masashi assulting Aida to stop raping Misaki was rushly written on the ending part. It was obligatory Elf downer ending. The divorce ending where Masashi meet Misaki again after timeskip was more properly written . But to unlock that ending player need to play bit longer and saw the tapes, so pacing wise, it's better. And yeahx personally i find that ending was properly written than Fin 1 and 2. Fin 1 also downer ending with despair future guarantee haha. While Fin 2 was semi happy ending.
 

Lex Thorson

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While forensics aren't as magical as movies make them to be, an abuse victim will have skill cells and hairs from the attacker. It'd be even worse with Misaki on account of the fact that she hadn't been sleeping with the MC for long periods of time and stuff because of Aida's shenanigans. Hell, the investigations could even find Aida's semen in her if he wasn't careful, and he does show at plenty of times that he's careless about that sort of thing.

However.

After stopping to think about things for a while... There is ONE way this could happen, and it'd highlight just how petty of a person Aida is.

Basically, one way to make this sort of thing stick is if Misaki disappears from the equation and can't be interviewed at all. What I think happened is that Misaki did the same thing she did in the Fin 02 branch. She ran off and hid with the Owner, only after signing the divorce papers. Hell, it's possible that she did NOT sign them and her signature was transplanted on them from a different document. It's actually stupidly easy to do if you have the patience to figure it out... What's important here is that she vanishes and Aida, out of his hatred of the MC, drops the domestic abuse accusations.

With Misaki missing and the divorce papers presumably being signed willingly, the police would be much easier to convince that something iffy was going on in that house, and they wouldn't have any reason to tell MC that Misaki was actually missing, since they'd want to protect her from him until they figure out wtf is going on.

The tragic thing here is that in this case, their son likely ended up as a ward of the state in those endings, because I don't see that bastard Aida taking care of him even IF it turned out that the kid was his.

The reason I think this is what happened is because endings 00 and 01 are VERY unclear about what happened directly after the incident where MC discovers what was happening and chooses to intervene. All they say is that he kicked all three until they were unconscious and that it turned into a mess... However, the endings notably do NOT say anything about what Misaki did. They're extremely vague about what happened with her or how she acted or anything.

Then there's that one ending from the Fin01 branch, Ending 06 if my memory isn't failing me, that's basically ending 01 extended, which also shows Misaki at the Owner's place once the MC is 50 and whatnot.

So that's what I think happened. I think Misaki ran away from Aida, and Aida out of sheer spite did the whole domestic abuse thing just to fuck the MC over and ensure that it was extremely unlikely that the two could get back together ever again.

Either way, leaving aside how bad it is for the MC, there's still something highly amusing about the fact that Aida never actually wins no matter what he does.
I agree with that possibility of Aida just being petty and Misaki could have little to do with hurting the MC and it's not in her character to screw over the MC. So it was likely just Aida's petty revenge for the most part. Yes, it is END 06. The son does eventually move out or run away and re-establishes relations with his father, since the MC is aware of where his son is and they keep in touch. The MC found it strange that Misaki never re-married, despite nothing seemingly stopping her, and then when he saw her again at the owner's restaurant, she was changed. Misaki had really suffered and gained weight and her appearance and changed according to the descriptions. Perhaps because of guilt, shame, and regret that the MC had to suffer for her mistakes and their divorce, which she really wanted to avoid at all costs. I think they still could've gotten back together, but the issue in that END was that he was with
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and he avoided for Misaki to see him again because he knew it would hurt her more than him.

You're right, it is funny that Aida never wins

Happy New Year! :)
 

Lex Thorson

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Yeah i feel like that bad ending where Masashi assulting Aida to stop raping Misaki was rushly written on the ending part. It was obligatory Elf downer ending. The divorce ending where Masashi meet Misaki again after timeskip was more properly written . But to unlock that ending player need to play bit longer and saw the tapes, so pacing wise, it's better. And yeahx personally i find that ending was properly written than Fin 1 and 2. Fin 1 also downer ending with despair future guarantee haha. While Fin 2 was semi happy ending.
You mean END 06, right? That's right that END 00 and 01 are a bit rushed and vague, I guess it's because was too early into the story that it would spoil things if they explained too much or gave too much information at that point? FIN 01 was going in a bad direction because the MC himself had broken and changed and couldn't live without the NTR anymore. I can't say for sure about Nao, but I am confident that Misaki has been portrayed to be consistently loving and loyal to the MC despite years of forced cheating, meaning that regardless of how good it feels to sleep with others, she won't stop loving the MC. And we were shown evidence that she still had powerful feelings for the MC shortly before the ending of FIN 1. So I don't see her fully betraying the MC in the usual way you see in NTRs, so the bad end comes from the MC himself being changed. Now FIN 2 is a good END in my humble opinion since they managed to work their problems out and find a way to satisfy both of their fetishes. Misaki reveals that she doesn't want to sleep with anyone but the MC anymore, so she doesn't. All we see in the end is a bit of roleplay and pretend to turn them on, it never actually goes too far. There is no actual cheating or anything. So the ending is relatively wholesome for the most part.

Happy New Year!!! :)
 
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