I came to the same conclusions. The contrast in expressions and postures is remarkable. Also, it seems that only Vivian is drinking, why? Maybe the other woman doesn't drink or maybe Vivian is waiting for someone, ordered something to drink in the meantime and this woman showed up unexpectedly? (as you said)lets analize new screen
1. New Character
2. Beer - probably Ivanhoe
3. New dress (?)
4. New earrings
5. Old couple in the background (there also in go-go club, so they are agents of the Matrix or background models)
6. Situation - Vivian is waiting for someone (99,99% for man - this dress is not for a meeting with a friend) -suddenly a girl sits down and Vivian is not happy : "so you're Chris's new slut"
surprisingly little jewelry - no bracelets, no rings, no necklacke - no-wedd-ring ??
new girl - full opposite
g-night
just remembered vivian is supposed to meet christian for the project the next day. from the dialogue in the bathroom scene. i assume she is at this bar to meet christian. and this lady is someone from work(a teacher at the school). this explains the surprise in vivian's face the the way she is dressed up as if going to a nice place. think luc77 might have just missed the bullseye on this.
Probably giving Vivian pointers on how to turn Hutch into full blown hutchy McCucky.
Hate to say it I would love Hutch to be the cigarette man, really would. But that feels too dramatic for Hutch. Will say this all in all Hutch has patience. Look at all the fucked-up shit that keeps happening man got god level patience. They would never have made it to the bedroom on the first night.just remembered vivian is supposed to meet christian for the project the next day. from the dialogue in the bathroom scene. i assume she is at this bar to meet christian. and this lady is someone from work(a teacher at the school). this explains the surprise in vivian's face the the way she is dressed up as if going to a nice place.
vivian loves hutch...that's clearly shown but there are 2 times where vivian is afraid of what hutch might do one is the carpark and the other is the code talk where hutch has sudden outburst. this also supports my theory that the cigarette man is hutch. can't delve into this as we don't know anything else about hutch. other than he is repressing his anger. have to wait for update 3.
Guy, I can't understand your rage against Hutch. Even he has behaved weakly, the guy deserve syympathy. Till we have more info, he is the victim here. Even if he is weak, i will never root for characters who take advantage of him.
That seems a little bit ouf of character from him.Hate to say it I would love Hutch to be the cigarette man, really would. But that feels too dramatic for Hutch. Will say this all in all Hutch has patience. Look at all the fucked-up shit that keeps happening man got god level patience. They would never have made it to the bedroom on the first night.
I believe she is there to meet Christian, but this woman sits down and surprises Vivian.
I think she is the woman that Christian told Vivan about in the kitchen. The woman who made her husband lick the sperm flowing from her legs as ice cream..
Hmmm.... Image is titled Friends and Family, assuming that as the basis, she does not look like family (not by blood anyway), so I can only assume it's a close friend.
Perhaps the lady has had a crush on Hutch in the past, and is offering services on her own volition.
getting hutch a sidepiece to keep him company doesn't sound bad.Hmmm.... Image is titled Friends and Family, assuming that as the basis, she does not look like family (not by blood anyway), so I can only assume it's a close friend.
Maybe she is telling her her dilemma asking for advice, trying to justify her whorish cum dumpster ways.
Maybe she is trying to find someone to give Hutch some loving
This could be the only night Christian is giving her free in this update, and instead of spending it with Hutch, she went out for drinks. Hutch might have told her to give him space and leave him alone (fingers crossed). Or maybe she lied to Hutch again on where she, and who she is with.
No, clearly Hutch did not/does not want Vivian to sleep with Christian for any reason. The bits that you are either trolling on or just skimming and not seeing all the detail of are mostly around the humiliation. It is clear from Vivian's expressions and reactions that she is not happy with the situation. At most, she is allowing herself to get lost in the moment, but as soon as her thoughts turn to Hutch, she feels guilt and shame, hurt and anger. There's literally nothing that suggests she enjoys humiliating Hutch or wants to humiliate him. She is not doing that intentionally - she is doing something that can be seen as humiliating Hutch, but that is a side-product of what she is doing, not the intended result. You can go into something knowing that someone will get hurt as a result, but that doesn't in the slightest mean that you are going into it to deliberately cause that harm.
The "talking code" bit is pretty nuanced. It's not about lying because you think you can keep the truth from the other person. They both know that the other person knows everything, but they're ashamed or afraid to openly admit it. If they do that, they will end up talking clearly about it (rather than in code), and it's like it will make it real. At the moment, they can still pretend that it isn't really happening, that it's all just a bad dream. They're both just lying to themselves to prevent opening that wound publicly, thinking it will be the less painful path for their partner.
Well I guess i never got my degree in cuckology like you seem to have but when i play this VN I'm seeing something much different than MR.CUCKOLIGIST. Hopefully when the new update come out it will settle the debate
Literally nothing about knowledge of cuckoldry, it's just having a basic ability to read people's expressions and look between the lines of what they are saying. If you are only willing to look at the very surface level of things, you're never going to have a chance at understanding what's going on under the hood.
I would tend to agree with this careful phrasing here as one way of looking at it. But 1. the word "intentionally" does a heavy lifting here. If you act this way you perfectly accept thereby these consequences for your partner in that moment. So doing something knowing the consequences full well and intending can't really be seperated. The humiliation is collateral damage she can perfectly forsee in that moment and she does it anyway. It's not her fetish and her aim, I agree, but she is fully and knowingly responsible for causing it. The word "deliberately" doesn't rescue her from that. And ethically, this could even be worse depending on your point of view, because it shows total disregard for your partner. 2. Immediately after the scene (even during the scene when she nudges Hutch to obey his boss which is again objectively humiliating) you can see the beginnings of resentment on her side as the inevitable outcome of that, and resentment is the breeding ground for more deliberate humiliation. I remember the scene in the car, when he grows some minimal balls and asks her. She completely and harshly shuts him down. So what you call guilt and shame transforms itself into aggression and anger towards the "victim" because she sees his weakness. She resents him for causing the whole sceneario in her opinion. True, honest feeling of guilt could have let to a different scene in the car and an immediate apology from her side. She still doesn't get that she is at fault at that moment and caused the whole thing.
if its the night after the code talk then you are wrong joe... as its clear in the conversation that vivian and christian have in the bathroom that tomorrow night they want to "scope out a place" so the render shared can be next day where vivian is trying to discreetly meet up with christian instead of having to pick her up from her home(at this point i doubt it can be called their home). and there are a lot of possibilities about the other lady's identity .... can even be the mechanic kids'(rupert's) mom and she i happy to meet his teacher. ty rob for the character list.... only 2 names that are not shown in the update (mayor west and billie lou). assuming that the other person is billie lou.
i mean hutch is still under the impression that vivian doesn't know that he was in the bathroom. and vivian doesn't tell him she knows that he knows at any moment in their conversation, hence the code talk. this is the opposite of the talk between christian and hutch in the car park where they talk openly about all that has happened (which is more similar to a married couple bickering). we have already seen in the bathroom how playful she is with christian and how she still believes whatever lies he is telling vivian to manipulate her. an example is ....not confronting hutch about the whole affair. it's just a matter of update where vivian may shift her affection from hutch to christian (as we have already seen in her interaction). so in regards to the code talk neither is willing to do say the truth not because they want to keep it as a dream but the fact that they have been manipulated beyond reason and don't even know what both of them are doing is wrong.
Yeah, that's the only bit that isn't known. But Hutch knows what Vivian has been doing, and Vivian knows Hutch knows it, so there's no secret there. Code is used as a way of softening the blow because of this as well - she's telling him that she knows he knows (saying that gets so confusing!) but without using actual words like "we both know I fucked Christian" or "I know you saw it".
Hutch and Christian don't talk openly about it either. I think the only relevant parts are in the office after the bathroom fucking and then the short bit just after, in the car park as you mention, but nothing is explicitly said there. The script is below - for those not used to it, "b" is "boss" (Christian) and "h" is "husband (Hutch). I left in four lines with a "#" that are commented out, because they are interesting to note as well:
I disagree on that first bit because I think they both clearly know that it is wrong. They are under no illusion that it is both wrong to do in general, but also very damaging to their marriage/relationship. We see it differently, but here I don't think Christian's manipulation comes into it at all.
Not really. Hutch plays dumb, he doesn't know that Vivian saw him in the bathroom. They are both well aware of what "project" is code for.
You're not wrong. The "project" is an actual thing, but it's pretty clear subtext that it's going to include sex. In discussion between Hutch and Vivian, they just refer to the sex as "...working with Christian" with the pause or italics included to give a little extra emphasis to it being a euphemism, e.g., "Look, I'm not excited about you two... working together..." and "I mean, how much work could there actually be anyway?"
