I agree. Christian's manipulations don't get her off the hook. I will point out that Christian made it clear he doesn't play this game with everyone. He knows better. There are husbands that would have knocked him down, or worse, long before he got his hands on Vivian. There are wives that would have kicked him in his balls as soon as they thought he was suggesting they have sex with him so their husband could keep his job.
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Yeah, I definitely agree with this point. Christian knows not to bite off more than he can chew and picks his targets carefully.
He is actually quite strategic about what women he deems ripe for the picking based on his assessment of their character. I.e., he wouldn't just try and manipulate any wife out there, but has a good read on the situation of who to corrupt, and who to back off from, based on his judgement.
Adhdclassic
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she could have nipped it in the bud. You see all the alternatives she gave Hutch in the end, it shows she could have gave those same alternatives in the beginning. Doesn't matter how much power a player has she had a choice. Here is another choice the choice that started it all the choice that should have never happened. She went to her grown ass husbands job in the same manner you would go to your Childs principal. Yes, Christian is the villain but Vivian is just a much a villain if not more. She was the one who made the vow to Hutch Christian didn't.
There hasn't been any evidence in the story so far - this sounds like rose-tinted glasses for characters otherwise having plot armor.
I DO think it would add to the story if Christian were depicted in some manner overstepping, or choosing the wrong mark.
Problem is a majority of the fans, despite drooling all over the concept of 'realism' probably don't want that, as a fallible antagonist is more believable yet less threatening. That sounds thorny because I see this as a superhero movie for avn ntr fans, yet people are spending paragraphs and paragraphs analyzing the characters powers, as if they play by any set of rules.
I do enjoy the occassional superhero movie, just not the claptrap.
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Vivian always did have a choice of course. I feel that she is a lot more wishy-washy and submissive in her mannerisms around Christian, because she knows that even if Hutch were to find out, she wouldn't really face any real/severe repercussions due to Hutch's cuckish attitude towards the whole dynamic going on between Vivian/Christian.
Now, (hypothetically speaking) imagine if Hutch was both a physically/emotionally abusive husband. Would Vivian feel more apprehensiveness if she were to blatantly cheat on Hutch behind his back? Chances are, quite likely because she is afraid of being reprimanded harshly if Hutch was to discover her infidelity.
However, since Hutch's personality is not at all in the manner described, she doesn't seem to have that fear of reprisal brewing in her. Hence, why she may feel sorry for outward appearances alone, deep down I feel that Vivian is not as regretful as she is made to appear in the game during certain scenes.
Sparta158
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I agree. that will be the starting point and the end of the story. Why has she lost respect for hutch?
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Yeah, I see what you mean. In some respects, if we see characters in AVNs (especially the antagonists in NTR AVNs) express any form of weakness and/or vulnerability in their actions, it would make for a more believable (albeit) unimaginative characterization for some players.
Showing believability in character interactions is important when the situation/scenario calls for it and could potentially add more realism to an extent. Albeit, the vast majority of why some people play AVNs like MHB, is for that underlying escapism factor to immerse themselves in taboo storylines to escape the mundanity of real life and engage in the excitability that triggers them to play through increasingly debauched scenarios between fictional characters in a fictional setting.
To be fair, though, the overarching narrative in MHB is still in the early stages, so it could very well be that we will see the vulnerable side of Christian in future updates, if he ends up overstepping Vivian's boundaries - so I would not entirely rule out that possible scenario from panning out if anything.
I would not call her more of a villain. Christian has done this to a lot of people. I find her to be an unlikable person. Her controlling attitude is part of why I find her unlikable. She also overestimates her abilities and clearly betrayed Hutch. Much of my recent posts focused on the idea that she did not enjoy humiliating Hutch. Despite her many flaws, she isn't guilty of enjoying him being in pain. That being the case, all three main characters are messed up people, but that is where the drama comes from. I do find Allison likable so far. Hopefully it wasn't her in Christian's bed. If it was, my respect for her goes down some. Sawyer hasn't done anything to make himself unlikable to me, but there isn't much there yet. So far we know that he, naturally, does not like his friends coming on to his mother (who is married to his father).
TheDuke9999
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i believe this with all my heart. she went there fully knowing what would happen the moment he kissed her in front of hutch. she didnt regret doing what she did. she just regrets destroying hutch and doing it right in front of his face. she regrets destroying her loyalty, vows, image but deep down she knew she wanted to cuck hutch. of course she feels bad for hutch but she doesnt feel bad falling in love with the boss. if you watch she sits on his lap, holds hands , allows the boss to treat her as a girlfriend and not just a piece of booty. a person can say anything they want but they show there true selves through there actions . no matter what lie the boss tells her she agrees to anything he tells her . knowing full well the boss is going to conquer her and humiliate hutch at this dinner when he bangs her with hutch watching and not needing a cuck pill as she said while the boss makes her his woman for good and yes you guessed it , vivian wont be coming home to hubby at night anymore like she promised .. end of story.... P.S. i hope hutch grows some balls and bangs the boss and vivian mothers and puts it on everyone's pc's at the boss workplace waving his middle finger in the air as he blasts in the boss's moms face ....... go hutch!!!!!!!!!!!!!
packard1928
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After Christian met Vivian ...it was game on. Look at all the office antics he did to openly flirt with her. And she fell for it. Then the big one was the dress and the dinner. Hutch was NOT to bring her... She did not trust that or sub consciously want to go see him. But she realizes that the test was not for Hutch ...but for Her ! By going she played here hand and he took every advantage. Al in all Christian probably would not have fired Hutch...even as numbers guy... I think he is important to his business.
Adhdclassic
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In this VN the most real world thing is why Vivian lost respect for Hutch. Men are classified as leaders, conquers, strong, dominate, ambitious. Does Hutch have any of these characteristics. Christian pointed it out at the dinner. Christian imbodied those characteristics that's what women want. It was said in the thread Vivian treated Hutch like a child not a husband or a man. That falls on Hutch.
Christian made it clear that it was certain type of man whose wife he would go after. He referred to them as perfect betas. His testing Vivian also shows that he tests the waters before he jumps in. This does not mean that he could not get it wrong at some point. That is not what I was suggesting in the post that Prenumbral was quoting. For example, bullies pick on people they think they can bully, but they still get it wrong sometimes. Just because the bully gets his ass kicked doesn't mean he wasn't careful in choosing the mark. He just got it wrong that time.
packard1928
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See Guys... I think she DOES Love and respect him. Enough to screw his boss to save that for him. Twisted as that may sound. Again, I think we have not seen the true Hutch...And Vivian knows it.. We just have not seen it.
TheDuke9999
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packard1928
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Heh if so this'll be one of the first AVNs in history where the narrative goes from less character development and more simple characters in service of sex scenes early on to more complex motivations later on.... Would love to see that though
But if we never see instances of 'getting it wrong', the audience could be forgiven for thinking the characters operate outside the realm of real world believability; hence my quip about superhero movies. Asserting a character acts in X way because of Y doesn't mean much until we see that tested in a not(X) or not(Y) environment; which is why a lot of this editorializing falls flat with me.
It's using fictional characters as supporting evidence for preexisting beliefs. Despite people saying "this is so" and "that is so", all I see is characters written very much within the confines of fictional ntr story characters.
Related but in different media - it reminds me when people would see "No Country for Old Men", and pontificate on and on about "hurr durr it represents the lawlessness in society and the lack of order"....no, it's a friggin fictional movie, and tells us what the writer wants to tell us. Any parallels drawn with the real world belong to the viewer. Unlike many I didn't see Chigurh as some mastermind criminal, I saw him as a paper-thin plot insert from a writer.
TheDuke9999
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i wonder what vivian and the boss's kids will look like ? well at least hutch will have plenty of time raising the boss's kids while the boss and vivian keep making more kids for hutch to take care of.
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Would love to see Christian's momma. I bet she's an A+++ class MILF
Or probably a GILF, if we assume Christian to be around the same age as both Vivian/Hutch, maybe even 2-3 years older than the two of them
I never saw, "No Country for Old Men" so I am not familiar with the specific characters you are referring to. I do believe I get the concept of what you are writing though. Has the story shown Christian avoiding the same game with a different couple where the outcome would be very unfavorable to him if he tried the same game with the new couple? The answer is, "No." Would having something like that in the story give more credibility to the idea that he picks his targets? The answer is, "Yes." By the same token it is fairly obvious there are some people he would probably be less likely to try this with. For example, a couple where the husband was large, strong, jealous, and had a reputation for knocking out guys that flirted with his wife. When I go through the game again, I will think about what you wrote.Heh if so this'll be one of the first AVNs in history where the narrative goes from less character development and more simple characters in service of sex scenes early on to more complex motivations later on.... Would love to see that though
But if we never see instances of 'getting it wrong', the audience could be forgiven for thinking the characters operate outside the realm of real world believability; hence my quip about superhero movies. Asserting a character acts in X way because of Y doesn't mean much until we see that tested in a not(X) or not(Y) environment; which is why a lot of this editorializing falls flat with me.
It's using fictional characters as supporting evidence for preexisting beliefs. Despite people saying "this is so" and "that is so", all I see is characters written very much within the confines of fictional ntr story characters.
Related but in different media - it reminds me when people would see "No Country for Old Men", and pontificate on and on about "hurr durr it represents the lawlessness in society and the lack of order"....no, it's a friggin fictional movie, and tells us what the writer wants to tell us. Any parallels drawn with the real world belong to the viewer. Unlike many I didn't see Chigurh as some mastermind criminal, I saw him as a paper-thin plot insert from a writer.
Sparta158
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I don't think Hutch was a special leader type like Christian. He had other characteristics that Vivian found interesting. I think something else happened before the story with Christian as to why they lost respect.
“It was said in this thread that Vivian treated Hutch like a child, not like a husband or a man”,
Yes I think Hutch and Vivian both show symptoms of empty nest syndrome (Sawyer). I think that's one of the reasons she treats Hutch like a child.
this can also be interpreted as a lack of respect in a partnership.