VN Ren'Py Nephilim [v0.5.4] [BuuPlays]

[justin.case]

To me it's really simple.

Kira & Selena knowingly put MC and/or Eliza in mortal danger, they are both fully aware of the danger to their lives (from Taron/Blackbeard) and still do it. Neither showed any remorse or apologized for doing it.

Pearl stole a trinket, that as far as we know, had no idea it would save Eliza. She apologized while she was doing it and felt guilty and remorseful and apologized many times after.

But, you're right that we players are forced to forgive her and Kira, when we had a choice with Selena. And it would have been nice for players to be able forgive or not forgive. For the reasons above, I would have forgiven Pearl instantly, but not Kira.

It would have been simpler if Pearl had mentioned to MC what she was supposed to do (except she has no idea of his abilities and his reaction, so understandable). MC could have said no problem, I just need it for one thing and then it's all yours.

You are actually right about there. I think Kira's betrayal was worse than Pearl's betrayal. First of all, she did only to get praise from her father. She put MC in immediate danger. As far as she knew, MC was just a dude who was an adventurer on a journey to help someone. So, she not only put MC in danger she also put someone, Eliza, in danger by preventing MC's journey. Only think that makes it better than Selena, she was not a friend of MC there. She was still considering MC as a cargo and MC was very well aware a pirate could pull such a thing. Still, worse than Pearl.

 

[Pixillin']

You are actually right about there. I think Kira's betrayal was worse than Pearl's betrayal. First of all, she did only to get praise from her father. She put MC in immediate danger. As far as she knew, MC was just a dude who was an adventurer on a journey to help someone. So, she not only put MC in danger she also put someone, Eliza, in danger by preventing MC's journey. Only think that makes it better than Selena, she was not a friend of MC there. She was still considering MC as a cargo and MC was very well aware a pirate could pull such a thing. Still, worse than Pearl.

But see ... this is part personal and part (what is supposed to be) the plot of this game. I personally value loyalty and honor above everything. In the game if I'm building a power base, or an army or however you want to look at it. I want to make it very clear from go that I am kind to those that support me but have absolutely zero tolerance for betrayal and disloyalty. I would have killed them all - Selena, Kira and Pearl to make that point in the hope that I no longer have to worry about it after that (though I can create further examples if need be). People don't have to join me, but if they do ... there are rules.

 

[justin.case]

But see ... this is part personal and part (what is supposed to be) the plot of this game. I personally value loyalty and honor above everything. In the game if I'm building a power base, or an army or however you want to look at it. I want to make it very clear from go that I am kind to those that support me but have absolutely zero tolerance for betrayal and disloyalty. I would have killed them all - Selena, Kira and Pearl to make that point in the hope that I no longer have to worry about it after that (though I can create further examples if need be). People don't have to join me, but if they do ... there are rules.

Yeah I do agree it's entirely personal. I am not denying Kira and Pearl betrayed MC and it's within your right to not trust them. Problem with that more on technical level. It's not possible to create that many path. Some even maybe okay to forgive Selena. So, you need lots of paths. Dev, as expected, took easy path and went for forgiveness path for lighter betrayal.

So, I do understand your point. As long as we don't disagree Selena's betrayal heavier and more dangerous then we are on the same page.

Edit: Also, I wonder how are we gonna deal with priestess at the island. She literally tried to kill MC. Then she kept going on scheming. While she has extremely good reasons, it still is not acceptable. Are we gonna put her in the harem too? Are we going to get rid of her? Like other people pointed out, what about Brenda? Are we getting a redemption arc for her too? If we are, why? What would be her strength to keep her around? So on and so on.

 

[Pixillin']

Yeah I do agree it's entirely personal. I am not denying Kira and Pearl betrayed MC and it's within your right to not trust them. Problem with that more on technical level. It's not possible to create that many path. Some even maybe okay to forgive Selena. So, you need lots of paths. Dev, as expected, took easy path and went for forgiveness path for lighter betrayal.

So, I do understand your point. As long as we don't disagree Selena's betrayal heavier and more dangerous then we are on the same page.

Edit: Also, I wonder how are we gonna deal with priestess at the island. She literally tried to kill MC. Then she kept going on scheming. While she has extremely good reasons, it still is not acceptable. Are we gonna put her in the harem too? Are we going to get rid of her? Like other people pointed out, what about Brenda? Are we getting a redemption arc for her too? If we are, why? What would be her strength to keep her around? So on and so on.

Yeah, almost none of the relationships in this story make any sense at this point, and the entire Island arc can be thrown off by a little logic and it's about to get worse because Taron (who MC has completely ignored, despite him being the reason MC came to the Capital in the first place) is going to come back while we're gone and create more problems - probably with Eliza.

 

[storm1051787]

Kira & Selena knowingly put MC and/or Eliza in mortal danger, they are both fully aware of the danger to their lives (from Taron/Blackbeard) and still do it. Neither showed any remorse or apologized for doing it.

Kira did not knowingly put the mc in danger. All she did was take him to meet her father instead of taking him directly to the island like he asked, and she is shown to feel guilty about it literally right after telling the mc about it. She also says outright that she didn't actually believe that Blackheart was going to hurt him.


I don't know what it is with you guys and selective memory.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Kira did not knowingly put the mc in danger. All she did was take him to meet her father instead of taking him directly to the island like he asked, and she is shown to feel guilty about it literally right after telling the mc about it.


I don't know what it is with you guys and selective memory.

How about you check your own memory? My memory is just fine.

This is pretty clearly knowingly in danger!




She shows some guilt in her thoughts, but not a thing to MC or an apology.

 

[storm1051787]

How about you check your own memory? My memory is just fine.

This is pretty clearly knowingly in danger!

View attachment 4718056
View attachment 4718057

She shows some guilt in her thoughts, but not a thing to MC or an apology. And what are you talking about? You said Kira never shown any guilt. She immediately starts looking to the side and you can tell from her facial expression that she looks guilty

Like I said selective memory. You're own quotes say the same thing I just did. She didn't believe blackheart would hurt the mc. She only thought mc would get hurt if he choose to withhold information.

As for apologizing her saying that she doesn't want to do this counts as an apology to me especially after she talks to the mc. She did not believe the mc was ever in mortal danger

 

[Dessolos]

Kira did not knowingly put the mc in danger. All she did was take him to meet her father instead of taking him directly to the island like he asked, and she is shown to feel guilty about it literally right after telling the mc about it.


I don't know what it is with you guys and selective memory.

I have to disagree . id say taking the MC to a pirate port town instead of his destination. As well as forcing him to meet with her father who she knows is someone not to be fucked and kills indiscriminately and forced them to do horrible actions growing up without knowing if he would try to kill him , let him ago or what is putting him in danger.

Now I don't think she purposely did it with bad intentions but it doesn't change the fact that he was in potential danger if he wasn't a Nephilim because he didn't know if the other pirates would not try something. He was essential surrounded by people that would see him as a target. Now nothing happened but it doesn't change the fact the potential was there so she did put him in danger as she had no idea about his powers yet.

 

[storm1051787]

I have to disagree . id say taking the MC to a pirate port town instead of his destination. As well as forcing him to meet with her father who she knows is someone not to be fucked and kills indiscriminately and forced them to do horrible actions growing up without knowing if he would try to kill him , let him ago or what is putting him in danger.

Now I don't think she purposely did it with bad intentions but it doesn't change the fact that he was in potential danger if he wasn't a Nephilim because he didn't know if the other pirates would not try something. He was essential surrounded by people that would see him as a target. Now nothing happened but it doesn't change the fact the potential was there so she did put him in danger as she had no idea about his powers yet.

She says her dialogue very clearly that she though he'd be fine if he just tells blackheart what he's after, she also didn't know what he was after or that it was anything important. She thought he was just treasure hunting. It's a betrayal in that she's potentially preventing the mc from getting something that's exteremly valuble, but she had no idea about Eliza or anything.

We also never hear anything about blackheart killing indiscriminately. He explicably kills people he considers enemies, not just random guys for no reason. And the other pirates wouldn't do anything as long as Kira was with him unless blackheart ordered otherwise.

 

[Dessolos]

She says her dialogue very clearly that she though he'd be fine if he just tells blackheart what he's after,

that doesn't matter she had no idea how the outcome would go she could guess how it would go if he did what she said but didn't know for 100% certainty nothing bad would happen. Especially when she knows he can be rather violent

We also never hear anything about blackheart killing indiscriminately. He explicably kills people he considers enemies, not just random guys for no reason. And the other pirates wouldn't do anything as long as Kira was with him unless blackheart ordered otherwise.

maybe not indiscriminately but unhinged and kills rather easily especially with that ring corrupting him. As for the other pirates I would say you are only right about the ones loyal to the twins but there were ones that were loyal to Blackheart that didn't give a fuck. Like the one that tried to rape Kelly.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Like I said selective memory. You're own quotes say the same thing I just did. She didn't believe blackheart would hurt the mc. She only thought mc would get hurt if he choose to withhold information.

As for apologizing her saying that she doesn't want to do this counts as an apology to me especially after she talks to the mc. She did not believe the mc was ever in mortal danger

Wow! and you say I have a selective memory.

 

[justin.case]

Btw storm1051787 , it's nice you have come here. I've managed to have a little time to check Diana fight. MC got fatally wounded once, not twice. Also, he ends the fight twice. At first, he quickly moves and hits Diana and make her flying, then she hit the hull of the ship. MC stops the fight to talk to her instead of ending her. Secondly, MC grabs her by the neck and basically ends the fight. He did not break her neck because he does not want to kill her. There is even a dialogue option there, the interrupt there is that long. Then, at the end they knock each other down but while he recovers, she almost died. So MC, heals her. If you count ice cube thing as second knock out, it's not because while Diana preparing final blow there he melts the ice. All in all, even according to your round counting way MC is the winner of that fight.

Round 1 : Diana stabs MC's neck. Diana's win.
Round 2 : MC yeets Diana to ship's hull. MC's win.
Round 3 : MC grabs the Diana by her neck. MC's win.
Round 4 : Diana and MC knock each other out but Diana gets more damage. MC's win.

Final score : MC 3 - Diana 1

Or we can look at my way and say, MC reached his goal by saving twins. MC won the fight.

Or we can look at as one continues fight. They knock each other out at the end. Diana got hurt more and almost died. MC won the fight.

In all cases MC won. Toodaloo.

 

[storm1051787]

that doesn't matter she had no idea how the outcome would go she could guess how it would go if he did what she said but didn't know for 100% certainty nothing bad would happen. Especially when she knows he can be rather violent

Maybe for you it doesn't matter. For me it makes a big difference. To me it tells me that Kira believed he wasn't in any real danger and just thought she was robbing him.

maybe not indiscriminately but unhinged and kills rather easily especially with that ring corrupting him. As for the other pirates I would say you are only right about the ones loyal to the twins but there were ones that were loyal to Blackheart that didn't give a fuck. Like the one that tried to rape Kelly.

She didn't even know about the ring corrupting him. He's had that ring for at least 15 years. And the only reason why Brenna was acting out was because Blackheart was gone. They never tried anything while he was still in power.

Wow! and you say I have a selective memory.

She literally says he won't hurt him if he just tells blackheart what he knows.

 

[MiltonPowers]

She literally says he won't hurt him if he just tells blackheart what he knows.

And what happens if he's not a pussy and refuses to talk?

 

[storm1051787]

Btw storm1051787 , it's nice you have come here. I've managed to have a little time to check Diana fight. MC got fatally wounded once, not twice. Also, he ends the fight twice. At first, he quickly moves and hits Diana and make her flying, then she hit the hull of the ship. MC stops the fight to talk to her instead of ending her. Secondly, MC grabs her by the neck and basically ends the fight. He did not break her neck because he does not want to kill her. There is even a dialogue option there, the interrupt there is that long. Then, at the end they knock each other down but while he recovers, she almost died. So MC, heals her. If you count ice cube thing as second knock out, it's not because while Diana preparing final blow there he melts the ice. All in all, even according to your round counting way MC is the winner of that fight.

Round 1 : Diana stabs MC's neck. Diana's win.
Round 2 : MC yeets Diana to ship's hull. MC's win.
Round 3 : MC grabs the Diana by her neck. MC's win.
Round 4 : Diana and MC knock each other out but Diana gets more damage. MC's win.

Final score : MC 3 - Diana 1

Or we can look at my way and say, MC reached his goal by saving twins. MC won the fight.

Or we can look at as one continues fight. They knock each other out at the end. Diana got hurt more and almost died. MC won the fight.

In all cases MC won. Toodaloo.

Are you literally ignoring the part where she frozen him in a block of ice and walk away because she thought he was dead. Picking Diana up doesn't matter since she was still fighting and managed to break away same with the mc blasting her back.


If we're counting mc knocking her back once as a lot why not count the beginning where Diana sends him flying? And why are you counting a double knock out as a win for one but a lost for the other?

This doesn't really sound like a good faith argument.

 

[Dessolos]

She didn't even know about the ring corrupting him. He's had that ring for at least 15 years. And the only reason why Brenna was acting out was because Blackheart was gone. They never tried anything while he was still in power.

I never said she knew about the ring. I was just talking about blackhearts violent behavior which Kira knew he was rather violent , more than your average pirate.

 

[storm1051787]

And what happens if he's not a pussy and refuses to talk?

Then that would be the same as commiting suicide wouldn't? That's like trying to jump the guy mugging you. A sensible person isn't going to do that. Case in point she figured that the mc would be sensible and not try to fight blackheart

I never said she knew about the ring. I was just talking about blackhearts violent behavior which Kira knew he was rather violent.

He's violent, but we've already discussed he hasn't been shown to kill being indiscriminately.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Then that would be the same as commiting suicide wouldn't? That's like trying to jump the guy mugging you. A sensible person isn't going to do that. Case in point she figured that the mc would be sensible and not try to fight blackheart

I don't think you know what selective memory is. I'm using the dialogue we are given, you're using your interpretation of what she was thinking and worked out.

Kira knowingly put MC in danger (as proven by the screenshots). It's a 50/50 chance he would get hurt, he answers or he doesn't. But, she is still putting him in that danger. She knew there was chance. No matter how much you try and spin it that she expected him to fold, she was still putting him in danger.

 

[storm1051787]

I don't think you know what selective memory is. I'm using the dialogue we are given, you're using your interpretation of what she was thinking and worked out.

Kira knowingly put MC in danger (as proven by the screenshots). It's a 50/50 chance he would get hurt, he answers or he doesn't. But, she is still putting him in that danger. She knew there was chance. No matter how much you try and spin it that she expected him to fold, she was still putting him in danger.

It's selective memory because your claiming stuff that happened didn't happen. You said Kira never shows any remorse. She actively showed remorse. Then you ignore the fact that she mentions that Blackheart wouldn't hurt him if he doesn't withhold information.

The only way there was a chance is if the mc directly goes against her advice but she's literally telling him how he can make it through the encounter unharmed. So yes how you spin it matters a lot. If I tell you to go through the bad part of town with a body guard and a police escort would you still blame me for putting you in danger even though I'm actively trying to protect you?

 

[MiltonPowers]

It's selective memory because your claiming stuff that happened didn't happen. You said Kira never shows any remorse. She actively showed remorse. Then you ignore the fact that she mentions that Blackheart wouldn't hurt him if he doesn't withhold information.

The only way there was a chance is if the mc directly goes against her advice but she's literally telling him how he can make it through the encounter unharmed. So yes how you spin it matters a lot. If I tell you to go through the bad part of town with a body guard and a police escort would you still blame me for putting you in danger even though I'm actively trying to protect you?

I'm out. I'm not getting caught up in one of your endless debates again. I have nothing more to add.