VN Ren'Py Abandoned Never Back Down [v0.5.1] [Antidote Lab]

[Yume-Noun]

This is a friendly point of view of a vanilla fan to the dev.

I dont have problem with NTR games, if they just gave us a signal that will be NTR at the beginning of the story.

The dev say is not NTR, for how he represent all the mother situation, the problem with this is that we, as the player we all going with the expectation to bang the mother, is "our" interest, and now a person who beat us and humiliate us is banging "our" interest, this still count as NTR because we are the protagonist and we have an interest in the mother.

The problem of the scene is not that we can or not skip the scene, is the scene itself happening, even when you put a skip button, we know the scene is still happening, for us, it would be better if the MC could stop this to happen, not just close my eyes and say "I didn't saw anything, so, it didn't happen."

Hope this was able to understand our point of view.

 

[Antidote Lab.]

Yes, I understand your opinion about NTR. If you ask if there will be scenes like this, I will say that if there are in the story of my game. So what I mean is that Sex is a fact of life and even though the game takes place in an alternative world, it continues to be Sex outside. If you are bothered by someone other than MC having sex, should I not show those scenes at all, or should I point the end and add a skip button? I appreciate your views and I said I should consult you for those who do not like NTR.

 

[Johnny6]

Yes, I understand your opinion about NTR. If you ask if there will be scenes like this, I will say that if there are in the story of my game. So what I mean is that Sex is a fact of life and even though the game takes place in an alternative world, it continues to be Sex outside. If you are bothered by someone other than MC having sex, should I not show those scenes at all, or should I point the end and add a skip button? I appreciate your views and I said I should consult you for those who do not like NTR.

It's your game so do it like you want. You can't please everyone so don't even try it, most of the games where developer tried to change the story to fit the larger audience ended abandoned because dev hasn't a glue how to continue because the strory isn't his anymore.
Now if you can cut out scenes without affecting the story you want tell, that you can do. For me it's not matter is the scene ntr or not if MC isn't in it I don't care or want to see it. So if those scenes is meant be ntr there is no point to skip these because non-ntr players isn't interested anymore, if those scenes is not meant be ntr then there is no point to make them, they just feel like waste of time and resources for us who are not interested other sex scenes than with MC.

 

[eddie987]

Yes, I understand your opinion about NTR. If you ask if there will be scenes like this, I will say that if there are in the story of my game. So what I mean is that Sex is a fact of life and even though the game takes place in an alternative world, it continues to be Sex outside. If you are bothered by someone other than MC having sex, should I not show those scenes at all, or should I point the end and add a skip button? I appreciate your views and I said I should consult you for those who do not like NTR.

I had this game in my playlist, but after reading some comments about the last update and seeing the image/video files, I don't think I'll ever give it a try. The only reason I'm commenting here, is because it seems that you want people who don't like NTR to be able to play the game, but you don't get the problem with a certain scene. I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I don't think that adding a skip button will change much. The game has an incest tag, which makes the MC's mother a love interest and (from what I read) you have a guy who beat him up bang her! That's a typical NTR trope and the only way to make it more cliche, would be if that guy was Jamal or Tyrone...

If that's the kind of story you want to tell, there's an audience for it, so keep adding that kind of scenes and you should be ok, but if you want non-NTR fans and especially incest fans to be able to play the game and enjoy it, this type of content should always be optional. And I don't mean add a skip button and have it happening in the backround, but make it completely avoidable, like having a path where she doesn't fuck that guy at all.

In the end of the day it's your game and you should do what you think is best. For me, having a random douchebag banging the MC's mother, just makes it unenjoyable/unplayable, even if I like most of the models. Also, like someone else already pointed out, you should consider changing the "it's all up to you to decide his fate" in the overview, because it (falsely) implies that you'd be able to avoid certain things not everyone likes, and that will only add more complains. Anyway, I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say and it will be at least a little bit helpful. Good luck with your game, it's definitely not for me (in its current state), but the renders look nice.

 

[KyoriKusagami]

Guys, there's no point in discuss about this subject anymore. After this update and the dev's comments, this game is not for vanilla players. If this update made you angry, it's a signal for you quit this game try another one.

 

[Yume-Noun]

I had this game in my playlist, but after reading some comments about the last update and seeing the image/video files, I don't think I'll ever give it a try. The only reason I'm commenting here, is because it seems that you want people who don't like NTR to be able to play the game, but you don't get the problem with a certain scene. I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I don't think that adding a skip button will change much. The game has an incest tag, which makes the MC's mother a love interest and (from what I read) you have a guy who beat him up bang her! That's a typical NTR trope and the only way to make it more cliche, would be if that guy was Jamal or Tyrone...

If that's the kind of story you want to tell, there's an audience for it, so keep adding that kind of scenes and you should be ok, but if you want non-NTR fans and especially incest fans to be able to play the game and enjoy it, this type of content should always be optional. And I don't mean add a skip button and have it happening in the backround, but make it completely avoidable, like having a path where she doesn't fuck that guy at all.

In the end of the day it's your game and you should do what you think is best. For me, having a random douchebag banging the MC's mother, just makes it unenjoyable/unplayable, even if I like most of the models. Also, like someone else already pointed out, you should consider changing the "it's all up to you to decide his fate" in the overview, because it (falsely) implies that you'd be able to avoid certain things not everyone likes, and that will only add more complains. Anyway, I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say and it will be at least a little bit helpful. Good luck with your game, it's definitely not for me (in its current state), but the renders look nice.

This. Is the same thing Im commenting here, it seems you at the beginning tried to appeal to the vanilla players, but didn't think the scene would backlash so much, if you really want to appeal to the vanilla players, you could make an option to make the MC stop this kind of scenes before it happens (like, Book of Lust) not skip the scene itself.

But at the end, its your game at the end and you make what you like, this would take down all the vanilla players for sure, but if this is the kind of story you want to do, make it.

 

[Pogo123]

nice idea, really nice graphics, sexy girls just the mc... well normally i pref female mc's but if it has to be a guy (which is fine with me) he should be either ugly or old. this guy looks really pretty good job on that just not my cup of tea sadly. keep it up

 

[Mormont]

you have a guy who beat him up bang her!

If only we could have used a bit of rocket power on the bike and taken him out right there and then Shame that it's gone down this route I felt this one had some promise but I just feel like that fetish just has to be shoehorned in for whatever reasons and it seems future blackmail will be in the future after her encounter.

 

[LVXS]

lovely game but i would really appreciate the option at the start to turn off all scenes where someone else is bangin the LI, killed the vibes man.

good work & hope this is taken into consideration, im willing to bet many people here would appreciate the ntr switch at the beginning as well.

 

[Wildbill5150]

Yes, I understand your opinion about NTR. If you ask if there will be scenes like this, I will say that if there are in the story of my game. So what I mean is that Sex is a fact of life and even though the game takes place in an alternative world, it continues to be Sex outside. If you are bothered by someone other than MC having sex, should I not show those scenes at all, or should I point the end and add a skip button? I appreciate your views and I said I should consult you for those who do not like NTR.

I understand using things as needed for story? And if the mother isn't a LI or sexual partner for the mc then I don't feel like it is ntr?
My question is will the mc's love interests or sexual partners be having sex with other men??
Your overview says "it's all up to you to decide his fate, and remember, no matter what happens, Never Back Down."
So being forced to watch or have your love interests or sexual partners be with other men then you as the player are not deciding mc's fate?? If that content is avoidable not just you don't see it but it doesn't happen unless you decide to let it happen then that is something that people who like ntr can have it and people that don't like it can still enjoy the game?

If the mother is a LI or sexual partner then there are other ways to make her a horrible person I mean shouldn't the mc already know his mom is a piece of shit or did she seriously just wake up out the blue and decide to be a horrible human being??
Or leave it and give the player the choice of whether they want to have anything to do with her?

I really liked the game and was a sub untill the ntr stuff came up I don't mind ntr being in the game as long as it is avoidable and written rights people who like it can choose to see it and the people that don't like it can choose to avoid it and both sides can enjoy your game??

But forcing people when there are other ways that really wouldn't hurt the story being told is not allowing the player to decide the mc's fate like it says in your overview??
I wouldn't even be commenting if I didn't like the game most of us are because we like the game but can't play it because we don't enjoy certain types of content I don't want my LI or sexual partners to be with other men it's a game a fantasy? But if written right the choice to let it happen would allow those that do like it to be able to see it? And those that don't like it can avoid it and still enjoy the game?

Like it says in the overview from the beginning
it's all up to you to decide his fate, and remember, no matter what happens, Never Back Down.
So let the players decide mc's fate in game?

 

[ptahn]

I understand using things as needed for story? And if the mother isn't a LI or sexual partner for the mc then I don't feel like it is ntr?
My question is will the mc's love interests or sexual partners be having sex with other men??
Your overview says "it's all up to you to decide his fate, and remember, no matter what happens, Never Back Down."
So being forced to watch or have your love interests or sexual partners be with other men then you as the player are not deciding mc's fate?? If that content is avoidable not just you don't see it but it doesn't happen unless you decide to let it happen then that is something that people who like ntr can have it and people that don't like it can still enjoy the game?

If the mother is a LI or sexual partner then there are other ways to make her a horrible person I mean shouldn't the mc already know his mom is a piece of shit or did she seriously just wake up out the blue and decide to be a horrible human being??
Or leave it and give the player the choice of whether they want to have anything to do with her?

I really liked the game and was a sub untill the ntr stuff came up I don't mind ntr being in the game as long as it is avoidable and written rights people who like it can choose to see it and the people that don't like it can choose to avoid it and both sides can enjoy your game??

But forcing people when there are other ways that really wouldn't hurt the story being told is not allowing the player to decide the mc's fate like it says in your overview??
I wouldn't even be commenting if I didn't like the game most of us are because we like the game but can't play it because we don't enjoy certain types of content I don't want my LI or sexual partners to be with other men it's a game a fantasy? But if written right the choice to let it happen would allow those that do like it to be able to see it? And those that don't like it can avoid it and still enjoy the game?

Like it says in the overview from the beginning
it's all up to you to decide his fate, and remember, no matter what happens, Never Back Down.
So let the players decide mc's fate in game?

If you are so worried about the content, just wait a couple of months. Right now the developer has seven patrons. If he has only twenty after the next couple of updates, he may be more interested in listening to you. At least that has been my experience.

 

[Uknowme]

There's a fan base for NTR but if you wanna do well you should try the Non- NTR fan base.You should make it possible to avoid NTR,you don't have to totally remove it since it will mess up your actual story and even the NTR can't be avoided then so be it but atleast add a skip NTR feature.I am not someone who particularly enjoys NTR but I will give this game a try.

 

[Uknowme]

Please get the game proof read and work a bit on narration as well and I'm sure it will make it a good game to play

 

[Antidote Lab.]

Yes, u right I still search a proofreader.

 

[freakanime]

For me NTR is fine if it is needed for the story but most NTR I see are girls becoming sluts suddenly and updates would be less about the story but more on which girl would get NTR'ed or which guy gonna banged that girl next. Which would be a cuck simulator rather than a story.

Sure those things are also fine but it should be stated clearly at the start if those would be the case.

For this game honestly renders and somewhat the story is still fine but given that there are only a few patreons subs I don't think it is good for a starting project to be like this. Since I think if the goal isn't a cuck simulator but a good story those kind of story/games would probably need a lot of updates first before support would pick up.

But since you already ventured in this whole NTR/non NTR my advise is you can't please both this early since the story is fresh but don't go the two story route NTR route/Non NTR the development time would be hell for that and Patreon would probably not pick up.

But instead go for both NTR/Non NTr sure like what I said early updates would probably be less patreon but at least you go for your original vision just don't expect supports to suddenly support for only 1-6 updates.

Last advise which probably gonna be the way to get more supports go for one fetish only.

If it is NTR go with it fully which would probably gonna be a Cuck simulator but those things are a given for NTR fans.

Or you go non NTR which probably need some redoing some scenes and go with the promise of NTR not gonna be featured in the future.

Since dev already said this would feature NTR in the next chapter make that somewhat a guage on which fetish gonna be supported more. If NTR scenes would be featured next but support didn't pickup maybe it is a sign to only cater to Non-ntr and redo some things to cater them only.

But don't do two routes your thread would just be full of NTR vs non NTR BS.

 

[xXwankerXx]

For me NTR is fine if it is needed for the story but most NTR I see are girls becoming sluts suddenly and updates would be less about the story but more on which girl would get NTR'ed or which guy gonna banged that girl next. Which would be a cuck simulator rather than a story.

Can't do anything about that ... u just described 98-99% of the NTR games that have hard NTR or "optional" NTR. I'm not against this specific fetish and I respect ppl's kinks and opinions, but the dev should be upfront about what kinks his game will have. Surprises like the scene with the mom and the bold dude aren't good for business and the result was a long debate about the usual topic in this scenario.

If he wanted to make the mom a cunt that we're supposed to blackmail or "put in her place" a simple description from the MC would've been enough. He's her son, he should know what kinda person his mom is. We understood that after hearing the reason why she's divorcing his dad and abandons her son, there's no need for explicit pics, we ain't retards.

Like some users already said, that scene wasn't NTR ... the MC doesn't give a fuck about her and she calls him a wimp. No connection, lust or simple simpin' means no NTR. And then the dev decides to add NTR just bcz he doesn't want the tag removed. After the first release he said there won't be NTR and out of the blue he decides to add it.

But don't do two routes your thread would just be full of NTR vs non NTR BS.

The problem with this infamous subject is the way the "corruption" and the cheating are written IMO. There will never be a perfect balance storywise between NTR and non NTR in a single game. Sadly, most devs take those retarded japanese manga or worse, chinese/korean manhwa, as example. That's cheap porn for virgins and kids who just saw their first pic of a woman's ass. We need some RL shit in there, RL situations and repercussions mixed with the usual tropes and scenarios that lead to a believable outcome. Mind-breaking, tentacles and porn stamina old farts/fat dudes/13" dick kids is just implausible.

Dev should stick to just one of those two, the kink he thinks is ideally suited to his story. In our case, both NTR and non NTR don't attract more fans, they just slow down the dev, start unnecessary flame wars and trigger the mods. For a new game that means incoming abandoned tag.

 

[kerem18]

I hope the perfect game sequel comes quickly

 

[Deleted member 770309]

I knew this game was going to turn into a NTR dumpster fire.

 

[Leen716]

I dont hate NTR cuz u can choose if they going to cheat on you or not or u ganna fuck someone wife or gf its just why some game the mc can't chose so i think thats why some hate NTR.Just for me why start the game if the mc is just going to be cuckold the mc.just my option i dint say the game is suck i see most of the comment is positive so then i think its going to be a good to a great game and good luck in dev and thx for sharing the game.

 

[Milflover68]

I dont hate NTR cuz u can choose if they going to cheat on you or not or u ganna fuck someone wife or gf its just why some game the mc can't chose so i think thats why some hate NTR.Just for me why start the game if the mc is just going to be cuckold the mc.just my option i dint say the game is suck i see most of the comment is positive so then i think its going to be a good to a great game and good luck in dev and thx for sharing the game.

There are lots of reasons why people hate ntr in the game including the reasons you mentioned.
1. NTR kills the mood for the non ntr players. No matter avoidable or not. It kills the excitement/Interest for that particular girl with whom ntr is happening.
2. We get little content compared to the ntr players. No matter if it is 50-50 ntr/non-ntr. Ntr players can play the full game(Ntr route+non ntr route as bonus) and see all the lewd scenes but we have to skip a huge portion of the game.
3. Most of the games with ntr and non ntr routes have patreons who are mostly ntr fans. So ntr content gets preference. So non ntr fans mostly stays away from supporting these games. Thats why these games have very slow patreon growth compared to non ntr ones.

I think Devs who are interested in non ntr fans should go full non ntr and drop the ntr scenes skipping or avoiding the scenes will be useless. Otherwise go full ntr and drop non ntr route.
What I am trying to say is chose your target audience and make content for them. Don't try to add NTR and Non Ntr in same game.