Java Abandoned Newlife [v0.8.7] [Splendid Ostrich]

[tysssart]

I've been following this game for a couple years at this point and from what i remember this is the first time SO has skipped two months, not paused his patreon, and made a vague excuse the update would come later because of "anxiety". I remember when SO missed their exact deadline - they used to always update the last day of the month - by one day, and apologized profusely and either paused the patreon or uploaded the patreon version for free, i can't remember. Now they don't even give a shit and just upload any time vaguely within a month of the past update, until now. They are genuinely reaching Innoxia levels of incompetence and laziness now, only without all the side contributors to pad the patch notes. It's sad to see and I wouldn't be surprised if this game ends up completely abandoned in not too long.

Yep, this is the first time SO just said, well fuck it, I just don't care anymore. Earlier he just blamed missing updates on poor health... Well, imo, this "poor" dev is burned out, jaded, and earns way to much cash too just say it's time quit and do something else, the worst part is that it has been like this for a couple of years now while the game still has so much potential!

I supported SO on Patreon for years at a fairly high tier because I felt it was worth it, back when he updated the game twice a month, there we're lots of comments and suggestions on the blog & Patreon and the game was constantly progressing in the right direction with pretty much every update.

The sad thing is that this game today, still does what it does better than pretty much all other games in the genre do!

 

[quiboune]

The sad thing is that this game today, still does what it does better than pretty much all other games in the genre do!

This! And it has been so many years, too. No one has been able a life sim this good, and I think lots of people tried.

 

[tehlastone]

Id actually donate if the creator showed any investment at all in making meaningful content updates for the game but as is Id never donate

 

[sta123]

I forgot who posted it but I vaguely remember a TellTale games analysis where it talked about players caring more about small decisions being recognized (even if the impact wasn't too big) by the game as opposed to having numerous branching path big decisions.

This section of this talk, I think:

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One relevant point I've got to reiterate: I've looked at the decompiled source code of consecutive versions in the recent past and saw nothing to suggest recent releases have added less content than earlier ones did. It's just that Newlife's game design is such that unless you have a completionist playing style you'll only see a fraction of the content.

 

[johnysanchez01]

This section of this talk, I think:

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One relevant point I've got to reiterate: I've looked at the decompiled source code of consecutive versions in the recent past and saw nothing to suggest recent releases have added less content than earlier ones did. It's just that Newlife's game design is such that unless you have a completionist playing style you'll only see a fraction of the content.

Wow thanks, that's the one. The comments complaining about the speaker advocating for meaningless choices are a bit disheartening however, I feel as if they're missing the point that small reactive bits of feedback from the game are often felt as *more* meaningful than branching story paths that change the plot drastically.
But as for the amount of content added supposedly being the same as before, I'm going to defend the critique of the developer here and say that even if there is the same amount of new content being added most of it doesn't feel cumulative. By that I mean the updates don't really build off previous updates, and are more or less contained within their specific experience, so it's kind of difficult to really experience a lot of what the game has to offer as part of a greater cohesive narrative. The best parts of Newlife are when characters and events intersect with each other, and it doesn't feel like we get enough of those experiences. Of course, this is definitely complicated and results in even more content being locked behind a specific set of esoteric requirements involving a full moon, chicken sacrifice, and RNG.

 

[sta123]

Wow thanks, that's the one. The comments complaining about the speaker advocating for meaningless choices are a bit disheartening however, I feel as if they're missing the point that small reactive bits of feedback from the game are often felt as *more* meaningful than branching story paths that change the plot drastically.

Ultimately it went beyond opinions and feelings - the telemetry data certainly seemed to indicate that in the case of their audience, shallow branching resulted in higher replays than in-depth narrative branching. Arguable whether that's directly relevant to adult games, but I'd be wary of ignoring that finding if I was planning a game!

But as for the amount of content added supposedly being the same as before, I'm going to defend the critique of the developer here and say that even if there is the same amount of new content being added most of it doesn't feel cumulative. By that I mean the updates don't really build off previous updates, and are more or less contained within their specific experience, so it's kind of difficult to really experience a lot of what the game has to offer as part of a greater cohesive narrative. The best parts of Newlife are when characters and events intersect with each other, and it doesn't feel like we get enough of those experiences. Of course, this is definitely complicated and results in even more content being locked behind a specific set of esoteric requirements involving a full moon, chicken sacrifice, and RNG.

Agreed - check my previous posts for some commentary along similar lines. My main issue with the posts I read here is that they often go down the lines of 'SO is lazy' or 'SO is intentionally fleecing patrons'. Personally I think the evidence is that SO's being fairly consistent with the quantity of content per update, but the game design means that content isn't sufficient. No easy way to rectify that that I can see. IMO Newlife has long needed a mercy killing and a more sustainable game design should take its place, ideally one that makes use of the sophisticated common tools like Ink that have emerged in the years since Newlife was first developed, and ideally a game where SO can act as an editor for commissioned content once the core game is established.

 

[johnysanchez01]

IMO Newlife has long needed a mercy killing and a more sustainable game design should take its place, ideally one that makes use of the sophisticated common tools like Ink that have emerged in the years since Newlife was first developed, and ideally a game where SO can act as an editor for commissioned content once the core game is established.

Just found out about Ink, it looks really cool and I'm surprised we haven't seen it used more in these types of games. It's basically tailor made for narrative/text-based games but it's complex enough to handle some complex logic too. Reminds me of twine except Ink can be used in other game engines.
Still, even with Ink it seems hard for an ever expanding game to keep track of all the possible branches and values in a coherent manner. I don't know what the solution would be cause it seems pretty hard.

 

[stochastic]

a more sustainable game design should take its place, ideally one that makes use of the sophisticated common tools like Ink that have emerged in the years since Newlife was first developed, and ideally a game where SO can act as an editor for commissioned content once the core game is established.

It's worth keeping in mind that this is more or less what SO had in mind with the custom scene format: People could submit new scenes for SO to edit and integrate along with the occasional commissioned scene. It has...kind of worked? The problem with this approach is that it only works well for scenes that largely stand alone, and that's the major frustration with making scenes--you can do anything in a scene, but the rest of the game doesn't recognize it. I've been testing out a scene where your female friend introduces you to her new boyfriend, who is a jerk ex of yours, and the scene itself is fine but there's no way for the rest of the game to incorporate it, mention it, etc. It essentially didn't happen and there's no way to change that without modifying the 'core' game to insert references and conditions related to that scene throughout it.

While this sort of modular design sounds like the answer in theory, in practice most scenes you might want to write would end up involving changes to a bunch of other scenes, changes and additions to the core mechanics, etc. If you want the game to remember your choices and have characters react to them, you're not going to be able to work in a strictly modular fashion.

 

[sta123]

It's worth keeping in mind that this is more or less what SO had in mind with the custom scene format: People could submit new scenes for SO to edit and integrate along with the occasional commissioned scene. It has...kind of worked? The problem with this approach is that it only works well for scenes that largely stand alone, and that's the major frustration with making scenes--you can do anything in a scene, but the rest of the game doesn't recognize it. I've been testing out a scene where your female friend introduces you to her new boyfriend, who is a jerk ex of yours, and the scene itself is fine but there's no way for the rest of the game to incorporate it, mention it, etc. It essentially didn't happen and there's no way to change that without modifying the 'core' game to insert references and conditions related to that scene throughout it.

While this sort of modular design sounds like the answer in theory, in practice most scenes you might want to write would end up involving changes to a bunch of other scenes, changes and additions to the core mechanics, etc. If you want the game to remember your choices and have characters react to them, you're not going to be able to work in a strictly modular fashion.

I can't think of a way to have explicit recognition of events without creating and tracking flags, but implicit recognition is possible via a rumour system. I don't remember Newlife's variable names off-hand, so they'll be generic here. Taking a stub form of the custom scene idea you suggest as an example:

At her house, your friend [Amanda] introduces you to her new boyfriend. It's [Joe], your jerk ex.

Joe is a jerk to the PC in the scene and the PC decides to leave.

- You're too shy to explain anything. You stutter a feeble excuse and leave immediately.

At this point the game logs a RUMOUR about you by Amanda, noting location, time, attendees, type (RUDENESS), and temporary penalties on Amanda's TRUST and ADMIRATION for you. In this example, when the next friendship / house party event happens, the temporary penalties cause the PC to fail these checks and she ignores your invitation (isn't added to the list of potential participants). As weeks tick by without contact, her TRUST, ADMIRATION and LOVE for you decay gradually until the game triggers a friendship end event and refers to the most salient RUMOUR in Amanda's possession:

You're distracted by a quiet but angry voice coming from your pocket. You're surprised to find you've butt-dialed [Amanda]. She doesn't know who's at the other end of the line and is threatening to call the police on the silent stalker. You realise your old friend has deleted your number.
- You timidly identify yourself but it does little to appease her anger. Of course she deleted you! She still hasn't forgotten [how rude you were] [at her house] [two months ago].
- In the safety of your home, you finally pluck up the courage to explain. Over the next couple of hours you find yourself telling her everything that ever happened between you and [Joe].

At this point the game marks the RUDENESS RUMOUR and its penalties as invalid, and converts its entire log of events between the PC and Joe to a series of new RUMOURs. The effects on Amanda's TRUST and ADMIRATION for Joe and the PC will be personality-dependent.

[Amanda] is quiet for a long time. Finally, she tells you it's a lot to process and hangs up.

Next week, [Amanda] calls to say she's sorry. She's not sure she's ready to believe everything you said about [Joe], but she hopes you can be friends again.

The immediate consequences of the custom scene end with appropriate changes to Amanda's TRUST and ADMIRATION for the PC and Joe.

In that scenario the game has responded appropriately to the event with only a generic understanding of its type (RUDENESS). By referring to the events vaguely and euphemistically, referring largely to location, time and participants, the game makes use of the player's recall instead.

 

[pyrolisk]

I can't think of a way to have explicit recognition of events without creating and tracking flags, but implicit recognition is possible via a rumour system. I don't remember Newlife's variable names off-hand, so they'll be generic here. Taking a stub form of the custom scene idea you suggest as an example:

At her house, your friend [Amanda] introduces you to her new boyfriend. It's [Joe], your jerk ex.

Joe is a jerk to the PC in the scene and the PC decides to leave.

- You're too shy to explain anything. You stutter a feeble excuse and leave immediately.

At this point the game logs a RUMOUR about you by Amanda, noting location, time, attendees, type (RUDENESS), and temporary penalties on Amanda's TRUST and ADMIRATION for you. In this example, when the next friendship / house party event happens, the temporary penalties cause the PC to fail these checks and she ignores your invitation (isn't added to the list of potential participants). As weeks tick by without contact, her TRUST, ADMIRATION and LOVE for you decay gradually until the game triggers a friendship end event and refers to the most salient RUMOUR in Amanda's possession:

You're distracted by a quiet but angry voice coming from your pocket. You're surprised to find you've butt-dialed [Amanda]. She doesn't know who's at the other end of the line and is threatening to call the police on the silent stalker. You realise your old friend has deleted your number.
- You timidly identify yourself but it does little to appease her anger. Of course she deleted you! She still hasn't forgotten [how rude you were] [at her house] [two months ago].
- In the safety of your home, you finally pluck up the courage to explain. Over the next couple of hours you find yourself telling her everything that ever happened between you and [Joe].

At this point the game marks the RUDENESS RUMOUR and its penalties as invalid, and converts its entire log of events between the PC and Joe to a series of new RUMOURs. The effects on Amanda's TRUST and ADMIRATION for Joe and the PC will be personality-dependent.

[Amanda] is quiet for a long time. Finally, she tells you it's a lot to process and hangs up.

Next week, [Amanda] calls to say she's sorry. She's not sure she's ready to believe everything you said about [Joe], but she hopes you can be friends again.

The immediate consequences of the custom scene end with appropriate changes to Amanda's TRUST and ADMIRATION for the PC and Joe.

In that scenario the game has responded appropriately to the event with only a generic understanding of its type (RUDENESS). By referring to the events vaguely and euphemistically, referring largely to location, time and participants, the game makes use of the player's recall instead.

You're going to have an absolute spiderweb of flags and connections, but I like the idea.

 

[sta123]

You're going to have an absolute spiderweb of flags and connections, but I like the idea.

It's not something you'd want to implement in a narrative scripting language, but would instead be part of the game engine, as with Newlife's existing interpersonal stat tracking (and equivalent in complexity). Newlife's Java based, but in the case of Ink you'd probably be coding it in Unity / UE / Godot / whatever's language, usually C#, and the narrative content would be accessing it through the Ink API.

 

[ahtabat]

Anyone been able to get the character creation up and working on there end?

 

[EmptyBottle]

Anyone been able to get the character creation up and working on there end?

I cant even get into the discord group to download it lol

 

[Kimitiri]

Anyone been able to get the character creation up and working on there end?

Windows:

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Linux:

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[bestfriends]

methinks he will just wait until december at this point

 

[dickdasterdly]

this dude just took people's money and ran he's so scummy takedown Patreon and announce your departer like a normal human being

 

[funnybully]

How many scenes in the game with unavoidable penetration? (like scene with office hunk and massage)

 

[International]

How many scenes in the game with unavoidable penetration? (like scene with office hunk and massage)

Completely depends on the girl's stats and how attractive the guy is. A strong willed prude and a weak willed slut are going to have different options. And maybe you need to stop the scene earlier to avoid getting fucked.

 

[johndoe4567]

There's a massage scene? I wasn't aware of something with the office hunk either

 

[EmptyBottle]

Is there any sort of scene guide available?
I remember the wiki used to be sorta updated, but that seems to be gone now...