VN Ren'Py Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[Frosty2000]

Part of the problem here, at least to me, is what happens when you don't go on Lea's path. Because then MC won't help Lea at all. So MC basically says that the only way he'll help her is for her to do this so called "exposure therapy".

EDIT: Also, the setup reeks too much of the old porn game trope of "whatever an LI's problem is, it will be solved by having sex with her".

Well the focus of the game is sexual. Hard to justify development time for a path where that wouldn't be the case.

Reading the other comments before it seems to me a major criticism were that the characters are well written, but are still not as multidimensional as real people. Also that some, especially Kim and also including the MC, have personality flaws, which we know real people don't have. Like a psychiatrist would surely never abuse his or her position, or even have sex with a patient and successful lawyers are flawless in their personal lives. Right?

I guess no choice, but for MrSilverLust to create some flawless AIs, who also pass the Turing test, to replace every character. The story writes itself too then. Problem(s) solved. ;P

 

[EndlessNights]

Disco Elysium has lots of socially oriented skills. While I have never finished that game I think NiF in some ways have similarities with DE. There is also Age of Decadence where you absolutely can play a completely non-violent character or a hyper-violent one. In fact it is hard to create a character that is good at both social stuff and fighting. Though that one almost requires a walkthrough ...

I haven't played either of those two yet, but I've heard a lot of good things about Disco Elysium and it's definitely on my pending list of games to play. Age of Decadence is a completely new one to me though it came out in 2015 -- it sounds pretty interesting based on a quick Google search!

While that is true, it is also true that the character's kinks is intrinsically linked with the colors of your choices. If you never choose a red option MC can't be a dom. And the MC is not a blank slate so you can't really choose his personality regardless of which color choices you choose. It doesn't help that the choices are rather different even within a color. Red choices rangers from just being confident and assertive to aggressive and assholish.

Then we have the question how much roleplaying you are really doing. Are you choosing your options based on roleplaying or because which colors are associated with the option to get the kinks you want and ultimately who you want to romance?

I actually like that there are ranges of sensitivity, manliness, trustworthiness, and cunning reflected in the choices. On a practical level, it encourages players to consider every choice instead of blindly picking the same color every time. On a more philosophical level, it plays around with the idea that focusing heavily on any one quality will tend to lead you to the extremes of behavior. In one situation, acting manly might mean standing up to someone trying to bully you; in another, it might mean acting like an asshole and being the bully yourself. Being sensitive might make you the best person to care for a friend in their time of need, but it could also cause you to let yourself be used as a pawn by a more assertive person.

I would say in my first playthrough (which eventually became my Lea love path playthrough) I did start out thinking more strategically. I was wary of picking choices that wouldn't lead me to the skills I wanted or might alienate my character from the LIs I preferred. As I got more used to the system, though, I began to focus pretty much exclusively on roleplaying because I realized the system wasn't there to fight or impede me and actually could help me build the character I wanted to play. I didn't really need to be scared of not having enough points if I just picked choices naturally based on how I thought my character would act in a given situation.

And the game would have also been better if not so much of the bedroom stuff was about dom/sub.

I've had the same thought before, but I'm not sure the game would be as compelling if MrSilverLust had chosen to tackle a lot of different kinks that he might not have been equally knowledgeable about. Some kinks are also potential ethical minefields which consensual BDSM isn't. Is there a particular kink you would have liked to have seen represented in the game that you think would have fit well?

Of course, there could also have just been more vanilla routes which would be nice for me and ename144, but incredibly annoying for Leo Humilis. Hasn't Leo been traumatized enough already by the shameful depictions of handholding, candlelight dinners, gentle kissing, and other similarly depraved acts seen in many popular AVNs?

Also I disagree about Jen. Jen's submissiveness in the bedroom is pretty consistent with her normal character. Rather, she is very competitive and becomes a demon when playing chess.
Perhaps you could exhibit such traits in Jen even in the bedroom if you gameify sex.

I love that idea. Imagine the MC and Jen just innocently trying to spice things up a bit but accidentally unlocking Jen's grandmaster mode in the process. Things might never be the same again.

It's often a really interesting experience to play a video or board game for the first time with someone you're dating. It can often unlock new insights into their personality you'd never have expected. The nicest person can turn into a sore loser when things don't go well and the shyest person can become hyper-competitive when presented with a goal to focus on. It's the magic of gaming!

 

[bacienvu88]

Well the focus of the game is sexual. Hard to justify development time for a path where that wouldn't be the case.

Sure. But it would be equally valid sexual to have the sexual path exacerbate the problems rather than help. And then you'd have to dial it back to find a proper solution instead.

I actually like that there are ranges of sensitivity, manliness, trustworthiness, and cunning reflected in the choices. On a practical level, it encourages players to consider every choice instead of blindly picking the same color every time. On a more philosophical level, it plays around with the idea that focusing heavily on any one quality will tend to lead you to the extremes of behavior. In one situation, acting manly might mean standing up to someone trying to bully you; in another, it might mean acting like an asshole and being the bully yourself. Being sensitive might make you the best person to care for a friend in their time of need, but it could also cause you to let yourself be used as a pawn by a more assertive person.

My main hangup here is that personality and kinks are so tightly coupled. This is something MrSilverLust has mentioned as well in context of there being both kinks and personality traits in the skill list. The coupling makes it hard to play some stereotypical characters such as the hard and ruthless CEO that relaxes from decision making by submitting to a dominatrix in the bedroom. Or the shy and introverted one who becomes a beast in the bedroom. Yes, those two aren't very applicable to this game, but I mean the general notion.

There is also no room for behaving different with different people. While this is the case already in the game to some degree it is mostly due to conflict between the preexisting personality of the MC and the choices you make. For example "Soft and caring with friends and family but hard and ruthless to their enemies".

Of course these are very fine details and few AVNs come even close to that sort of thing even when it isn't choice-based but just writing.

I would say in my first playthrough (which eventually became my Lea love path playthrough) I did start out thinking more strategically. I was wary of picking choices that wouldn't lead me to the skills I wanted or might alienate my character from the LIs I preferred. As I got more used to the system, though, I began to focus pretty much exclusively on roleplaying because I realized the system wasn't there to fight or impede me and actually could help me build the character I wanted to play. I didn't really need to be scared of not having enough points if I just picked choices naturally based on how I thought my character would act in a given situation.

My main playthrough is a bit of a mess because I play blind there. So that MC has only done a few random things. And maybe I do roleplay a bit there, because in that playthrough I try to do have an MC that does what is *right*, not just fuck anything that moves. Otherwise I choose an LI to pursue and tailor the MC to that which includes almost zero roleplaying.

I'll note that my favorite playthrough so far is no LIs and no sex except for the one night stand with Bri.

I've had the same thought before, but I'm not sure the game would be as compelling if MrSilverLust had chosen to tackle a lot of different kinks that he might not have been equally knowledgeable about. Some kinks are also potential ethical minefields which consensual BDSM isn't. Is there a particular kink you would have liked to have seen represented in the game that you think would have fit well?

Of course, there could also have just been more vanilla routes which would be nice for me and ename144, but incredibly annoying for Leo Humilis. Hasn't Leo been traumatized enough already by the shameful depictions of handholding, candlelight dinners, gentle kissing, and other similarly depraved acts seen in many popular AVNs?

I'd also like more vanilla and romance, but that isn't really what I meant (My handholding kink is not well represented! ). The main problem I have is for the Lea route which has exhibitionism focus but takes on dom/sub aspects as well with handcuffs which kind of spoils Lea route for me. Also there is that all routes so far seems to escalate things as the game progresses instead of finding a level they are comfortable with.

Then there is also things that could have been done without dom/sub aspects. MC could want to crossdress without there being a sub/humiliation aspect to it. Kim could cheat with MC without her ever threatening MC. And so on.

I have mentioned this before I think, but another aspect of this is that the characters so seldom talk seriously about their likes and dislikes with each other. How they liked the sessions they have had. What was good and what was bad. This makes the relationships strange at times. The main culprit here is Deb who as a self-proclaimed domme should know much better. That said, my impression of Deb is that she only wants a living dildo and someone to vent her frustrations on rather than a real relationship (note though that I haven't played the whole Deb submissive-route because I became too uncomfortable with it). And there is Emma of course, but that is excused because Emma & MC are fundamentally unable to talk properly with each other.

And as I said to Frosty above, I would like to see giving in to the kinks unconditionally leading to bad consequences. For example when Deb & Carl ask MC for help, depending on which path you go there could have different consequences for the relationships between MC, Deb & Carl. As it is now it is the same outcome regardless.

I love that idea. Imagine the MC and Jen just innocently trying to spice things up a bit but accidentally unlocking Jen's grandmaster mode in the process. Things might never be the same again.

It's often a really interesting experience to play a video or board game for the first time with someone you're dating. It can often unlock new insights into their personality you'd never have expected. The nicest person can turn into a sore loser when things don't go well and the shyest person can become hyper-competitive when presented with a goal to focus on. It's the magic of gaming!

We see that pretty clearly in the bets between MC & Emma.

But for Jen I think it is enough to have something to set records in. Fastest blowjob. Longest continuous orgasm. Etc.

 

[EndlessNights]

There is also no room for behaving different with different people. While this is the case already in the game to some degree it is mostly due to conflict between the preexisting personality of the MC and the choices you make. For example "Soft and caring with friends and family but hard and ruthless to their enemies".

I think the MC can behave differently with different people to an extent, but perhaps not to the degree you'd like to see. He can certainly be plenty hypocritical. For instance, he can condemn and judge Kim for her cheating and promptly proceed to cheat on Lea himself (the big jerk!!). I think the challenge inherent to managing myriad branches has made MrSilverLust reluctant to let relationships completely fall apart at this juncture so there's usually only so far you can go to alienate or mistreat anyone other than Kim and even Kim gets effectively treated by the game as a semi-friend a lot of the time no matter how much she and the MC might supposedly despise each other.

It'd certainly be interesting to see the fallout if you could torpedo all of the MC's relationships, but I can accept that the larger plot requires the MC's social network to survive more or less intact. I only really see good story-based reasons for the MC to potentially cut Kim, Emma, Jamie, and Pete out of his life completely, and the latter three would only have made sense way earlier in the story.

My main playthrough is a bit of a mess because I play blind there. So that MC has only done a few random things. And maybe I do roleplay a bit there, because in that playthrough I try to do have an MC that does what is *right*, not just fuck anything that moves. Otherwise I choose an LI to pursue and tailor the MC to that which includes almost zero roleplaying.

I think it might be worth trying a fresh playthrough with roleplaying in mind to see if you enjoy the game more that way...I think you would because you'd really be putting yourself into the MC's shoes and not just mechanically chasing LIs and sex scenes. If you find the skill system distracts you from the roleplay, just disable it for that playthrough and see if that makes a difference. NIF is a really interesting game to approach from different angles and there are a lot of intriguing aspects to the MC that you can choose to focus on. For instance, I have a playthrough where I play him as a bitter misanthrope who can never fully forgive his friends for what he perceives as betrayal and another where he's a true romantic who'd give everything up for love. To me, both playthroughs represent real possible futures for the MC and aren't inconsistent with the kind of person he is/can become.

I'll note that my favorite playthrough so far is no LIs and no sex except for the one night stand with Bri.

I call that one the future Bri route. Let's face it, she's already well on the way to worming her way into your MC's heart. You're one of us but just don't realize it yet!

I'd also like more vanilla and romance, but that isn't really what I meant (My handholding kink is not well represented! ). The main problem I have is for the Lea route which has exhibitionism focus but takes on dom/sub aspects as well with handcuffs which kind of spoils Lea route for me. Also there is that all routes so far seems to escalate things as the game progresses instead of finding a level they are comfortable with.

Then there is also things that could have been done without dom/sub aspects. MC could want to crossdress without there being a sub/humiliation aspect to it. Kim could cheat with MC without her ever threatening MC. And so on.

I can't really argue with any of that (OK, except the Kim thing just a bit...I think her threatening the MC makes sense just because she's Kim). I suspect the turn in the Lea route is intended to give some balance for maledom players, but of course it isn't really needed in an exhibitionism route. That said, I do think Lea is one of the more submissive characters in the game so it makes sense maledom players would be interested in her. In any case, I much prefer the more romance focused route which downplays the exhibitionism just a bit. Beach sex is fun even if no one's watching!

I have mentioned this before I think, but another aspect of this is that the characters so seldom talk seriously about their likes and dislikes with each other. How they liked the sessions they have had. What was good and what was bad. This makes the relationships strange at times. The main culprit here is Deb who as a self-proclaimed domme should know much better. That said, my impression of Deb is that she only wants a living dildo and someone to vent her frustrations on rather than a real relationship (note though that I haven't played the whole Deb submissive-route because I became too uncomfortable with it). And there is Emma of course, but that is excused because Emma & MC are fundamentally unable to talk properly with each other.

I don't think Deb really wants a living dildo. She certainly didn't want just that from Carl. Instead, I think she just lacks the emotional bandwidth needed to start a new relationship that is even slightly balanced or healthy because she's in no way recovered from her recent breakup. She isn't capable of giving the MC her best or truly opening up to him because her internal life is a living hell right now. Their protracted break up was shattering for Deb. If she and the MC are going to develop an actual relationship with a real emotional connection between them, they will essentially have to start over from scratch when Deb's in a healthier place. In the mean time, there'll be some kinky but soulless femdom opportunities (or casual but soulless sex opportunities for non-sub MCs) with someone who is basically just a shadow of the real Deb.

I would say Deb is the character who comes across the least consistent at the moment, but it's for completely understandable plot reasons. It'll be a good test of MrSilverLust's writing skills to see if he can give her a satisfying arc that reestablishes her as a whole and coherent person.

On another Deb note...

And Deb is a pretty textbook domme in my book (all the more so since we never get to see her trying to accommodate Carl).

She definitely tries to accommodate Carl in at least one major, major way: she has sex with other guys in front of him to fulfill his cuckold fantasies. That's definitely not Deb's kink or even something she feels entirely comfortable with so it's no surprise that the bull scene with the MC ends rather disastrously. Still, she made the effort...the sacrifice, even...just as Carl tried to be submissive for her.

Anyway, Deb is definitely a domme, but my point was she comes across a little differently than Kim and Emma do. There isn't that same dynamic of constant one-upmanship and verbal jousting in the MC's conversations with Deb. She can actually be a pretty good listener and ask surprisingly probing and insightful questions at times. Kim and Emma aren't the same either -- they all may be dommes, but they're all individuals with their own personalities rather than just variations on some domme archetype. If we were to change the manly personality trait to assertive, I'd say Deb is assertive and sensitive (but low in cunning), Emma is assertive and honorable (but low in sensitivity), and Kim is assertive and cunning (but low in honor).

 

[bacienvu88]

I think the MC can behave differently with different people to an extent, but perhaps not to the degree you'd like to see. He can certainly be plenty hypocritical. For instance, he can condemn and judge Kim for her cheating and promptly proceed to cheat on Lea himself (the big jerk!!). I think the challenge inherent to managing myriad branches has made MrSilverLust reluctant to let relationships completely fall apart at this juncture so there's usually only so far you can go to alienate or mistreat anyone other than Kim and even Kim gets effectively treated by the game as a semi-friend a lot of the time no matter how much she and the MC might supposedly despise each other.

There certainly is some of that. I'll concede that. And I'm not entirely sure exactly what my point is myself. But I think I'm more after how most people behave differently in different contexts.

And regarding branching. I'm fully aware that not everything can be in the game. And a crucial skill of a dev is selecting what is needed for a game and cutting out the rest.

Specifically, if *everything* I've suggested or talked about would be implemented I'd wager it would be a pretty bad game.
So treat what I say as musings more than anything else.

I think it might be worth trying a fresh playthrough with roleplaying in mind to see if you enjoy the game more that way...I think you would because you'd really be putting yourself into the MC's shoes and not just mechanically chasing LIs and sex scenes. If you find the skill system distracts you from the roleplay, just disable it for that playthrough and see if that makes a difference. NIF is a really interesting game to approach from different angles and there are a lot of intriguing aspects to the MC that you can choose to focus on. For instance, I have a playthrough where I play him as a bitter misanthrope who can never fully forgive his friends for what he perceives as betrayal and another where he's a true romantic who'd give everything up for love. To me, both playthroughs represent real possible futures for the MC and aren't inconsistent with the kind of person he is/can become.

I actually usually do light roleplaying. That is, trying to choose reasonable replies for the run in particular. And I play with double points, so I can ignore most of the skill system. But I usually don't unlock enough skills that I could play with default points without noticing anything different.

I call that one the future Bri route. Let's face it, she's already well on the way to worming her way into your MC's heart. You're one of us but just don't realize it yet!

Likely. Or it is a start of Olivia's route. Those two are my favorite characters so far.

I can't really argue with any of that (OK, except the Kim thing just a bit...I think her threatening the MC makes sense just because she's Kim).

I wasn't suggesting that should be implemented as the characters are implemented in the game. It was more for an alternative universe where MrSilverLight chose slightly different personalities for Emma & Kim.

I suspect the turn in the Lea route is intended to give some balance for maledom players, but of course it isn't really needed in an exhibitionism route. That said, I do think Lea is one of the more submissive characters in the game so it makes sense maledom players would be interested in her. In any case, I much prefer the more romance focused route which downplays the exhibitionism just a bit.

I agree mostly. While Lea has submissive tendencies I think it is more that she goes along with stuff MC suggests because she finds it exciting rather than that she wants to obey MC.

By the way, for the route where MC & Lea starts to post pictures / videos to the internet it would be an interesting development if Kim found those pics/videos.

Beach sex is fun even if no one's watching!

If you successfully avoid getting sand in places where it shouldn't be.

I don't think Deb really wants a living dildo. She certainly didn't want just that from Carl. Instead, I think she just lacks the emotional bandwidth needed to start a new relationship that is even slightly balanced or healthy because she's in no way recovered from her recent breakup. She isn't capable of giving the MC her best or truly opening up to him because her internal life is a living hell right now. Their protracted break up was shattering for Deb. If she and the MC are going to develop an actual relationship with a real emotional connection between them, they will essentially have to start over from scratch when Deb's in a healthier place. In the mean time, there'll be some kinky but soulless femdom opportunities (or casual but soulless sex opportunities for non-sub MCs) with someone who is basically just a shadow of the real Deb.

I would say Deb is the character who comes across the least consistent at the moment, but it's for completely understandable plot reasons. It'll be a good test of MrSilverLust's writing skills to see if he can give her a satisfying arc that reestablishes her as a whole and coherent person.

On another Deb note...



She definitely tries to accommodate Carl in at least one major, major way: she has sex with other guys in front of him to fulfill his cuckold fantasies. That's definitely not Deb's kink or even something she feels entirely comfortable with so it's no surprise that the bull scene with the MC ends rather disastrously. Still, she made the effort...the sacrifice, even...just as Carl tried to be submissive for her.

Anyway, Deb is definitely a domme, but my point was she comes across a little differently than Kim and Emma do. There isn't that same dynamic of constant one-upmanship and verbal jousting in the MC's conversations with Deb. She can actually be a pretty good listener and ask surprisingly probing and insightful questions at times. Kim and Emma aren't the same either -- they all may be dommes, but they're all individuals with their own personalities rather than just variations on some domme archetype. If we were to change the manly personality trait to assertive, I'd say Deb is assertive and sensitive (but low in cunning), Emma is assertive and honorable (but low in sensitivity), and Kim is assertive and cunning (but low in honor).

First, note that I have no real life experience with Dom/sub relationships at all. All of this is from what I find hot and what I've read in other stories about D/s relationships.

Personally I'm not interested in seeing D/s relationships focused on the dom where the dom just shouts orders and toying with the sub for their own amusement. I find that a turn-off.

The D/s relationships I'm interested in is those that is mostly focused on the sub and their needs and wants. The role of the dom in such a relationship is to push the sub to their limit to find what they like etc. In such a relationship I think I think the most important part for the dom is to be very sensitive to the reactions of the sub to understand what the sub likes and dislikes and where the limits of the sub are. Of course no one is perfect which is why safe words etc. exist. Being sensitive is good for anyone who wants to be a great lover, but it is extra important for a dom since a slip-up for a dom may be very damaging or even catastrophic for a relationship. And if they are into more extreme stuff it could even be deadly. Being assertive and confident is a requirement for being a dom, but being sensitive is a requirement for it to be great.

Considering this I find it a bit jarring that being sensitive is opposed to being dominant in the game. To be fair though, the game uses a different meaning of sensitive here I think.

Back to Deb. My comment about "living dildo" is primarily for the first scene where she doesn't seem to be interested in MC at all other than someone to shout orders to and to have a comparison to berate Carl with. As you said, Deb doesn't have the emotional capacity at that moment to be able to be a good dom because she is fully occupied with processing everything that goes on between her and Carl. And that is fine. The characters are flawed humans after all. But where the game begins to lose me is how MC and Deb never talk about it beyond an "I liked it" / "guess it was ok" statement from the MC which determines the Deb route. I would love it if the MC would call her out on it and saying something like "I would love to be your sub, but this was not good. You need to sort out your own emotions before we can continue". Or even better, MC gets turned off during the act, gets up and leaves saying "If all you want is to shout at Carl, you don't need me. Sayonara!" (this is true of both the sub and bull routes).

Then we have the second thing where Deb in a talk in the break room out of nowhere demands cum deprivation from MC. This is bad for two reasons. They *still* haven't talked about what they each want from the relationship, so this is again just Deb shouting orders at MC without care of MC at all. Secondly I firmly believe that the D/s play should be clearly separated from everyday life. Otherwise you will soon get into situations where one or the other is going to be hurt. One story I read had a good rule, when and only when collar is on then D/s play is in effect.

I firmly believe Deb can be a great dom. As you said, she is perceptive and sensitive to other's feelings in addition to being assertive (although in her current state I'd say she is more aggressive than assertive). But she needs to sort out her own feelings and keep her own ego in check. And I also think she would greatly benefit from a good teacher from a D/s community of some kind. Which leads me to question if Carl actually dislikes being a sub or if Deb just wasn't a good enough dom at the time. On the other hand Carl is likely not flexible enough to be able to help Deb become a better dom. Which is a large part of why their relationship is crashing; they are both too inflexible to learn from each other and to help the other become better.

Anyway, I'll stop here for now. Spending a couple hours to think about this is probably enough.

 

[Mharzel]

What's Emma's Kink? I choose hate fuck, was I wrong?

I'm on 47 honor, 66 Manly, 1 Sensitive and 13 cunning. And had to let her go, did I do it wrong?

Edit- I just realized you have to use points to get skills, ughhh did I fuck up???
I just ended chapter 1 and the stats on how they got with Emma and here I am with nothing.....

Made friends with Kim, got with Jen. Is it foresight to make friends with lawyer to save your ass on what you did with Jen or dumb since I could've avoided it. But then again we're just friends

 

[Mharzel]

Just wondering are there any pros for picking no crushes?

 

[gregers]

Just wondering are there any pros for picking no crushes?

Not so far, anyway. The MC is so fucked up he thinks there must be something wrong with him if he's not in love with anyone.

 

[Mharzel]

I can't believe I lost the volleyball game, I double or nothing and lost

 

[Mharzel]

I'm at 49%
So far I missed Emma "hate fucking" scene which gives me the feel that she's just your bratty sister.
Jen feels like the forbidden fruit, (Currently stopping at the scene where she wakes you up in your room)
Lea is like a drug, it's never boring that fitting room scene was awesome.
I relate to Kim the character in real life but I feel like there won't be a scene for her
There hasn't been anything for Bri yet and to be honest I'm not feeling it
I choose Olivia as my crush and on how she spilled everything in the docks, it feels like I'm building a broken woman from the ground up.

Any spoilers would be appreciated (Does Olivia have Huntington and would Emma not be a brat in the lap dance scene if I hate fucked her?)

 

[Zoomaa]

What's Emma's Kink? I choose hate fuck, was I wrong?

I'm on 47 honor, 66 Manly, 1 Sensitive and 13 cunning. And had to let her go, did I do it wrong?

Edit- I just realized you have to use points to get skills, ughhh did I fuck up???
I just ended chapter 1 and the stats on how they got with Emma and here I am with nothing.....

Made friends with Kim, got with Jen. Is it foresight to make friends with lawyer to save your ass on what you did with Jen or dumb since I could've avoided it. But then again we're just friends

just use cheats to avoid blocked routes

 

[osanaiko]

Mharzel I like your enthusiasm

Nothing Is Forever is a game which genuinely rewards multiple play-throughs. Some players like to "role play" different MC personalities, or chase specific love interests, or even go platonic with everyone. It's not possible to get *every* possible scene with every girl in one play-through as some are mutually exclusive (i.e. MC is top or bottom with Emma, and can't be both). So far there are no immediate consequences for cheating and seeing multiple girls at once, but I get the feeling that a tsunami is about to hit any MC who has been lying and cheating.

If you find the skills system is a problem, there are built-in "modes" which let you get double points or even give you all the skills. You can even disable the skill hinting system and play the game in purely "role playing" style. Note that these are the "cheats" that zomzom191 mentioned above. You can access the mode selectors from the "Skills" screen by pressing the Options button.

The game is not finished yet so we don't know the final outcomes of the character's stories, such as Olivia's health situation.

Regards your specific question about Emma: her behavior can have 2 different "themes" depending on your interactions (including of course the first sexual encounter with her). You can also not have a romantic or sexual relationship with her at all if you choose. On each of the theme paths you have different opportunities to interact with her but nothing is "on rails", so you can opt out of scenes by making the "natural" dialog choices for what you imagine MC would do - there are no tricks or misleading choices. Regardless of what happens in the first chapter, I think there will be some "bratty" element of Emma's personality, because that is who she is.

I love love love this game and have personally put a lot of effort into helping the Dev so far. I hope you enjoy discovering more of the story!

 

[gregers]

I can't believe I lost the volleyball game, I double or nothing and lost

The outcome is pre-determined for story purposes by the MC's previous bet with Emma to ensure that they each win one and lose one.

I relate to Kim the character in real life but I feel like there won't be a scene for her

There are some scenes with Kim on each of her paths. I avoid her on my playthrough so can't speak to the details.

There hasn't been anything for Bri yet and to be honest I'm not feeling it

Bri is nice and fairly attractive, but yeah, her character seems underdeveloped for now compared to most of the others.

 

[Mharzel]

So Deb and Carl are a mess since I cucked Carl and Lea shows up asking if there's anything with me and Emma so I lie, but at least I didn't lie telling her she's the only one I'm thinking about and said flat out that I'm not looking to be exclusive yet. Kinda sucks since it feels like I burned my bridge with Lea, until then I was just fucking around but now consequences feel real and I don't wanna lose my exhibition girl, I was thinking since I took the path of humiliation on Jen maybe she wouldn't mind if I get Lea too, but then only Olivia seems to be the one open for a threesome. (And despite me choosing her as my crush, it doesn't sit well that I'm basically trying to steal my friends fuckbuddy) I'm dodging Bri since she's too kind, it feels like even if I use the excuse of no relationships she'd feel like I'm cheating. (Despite this I still accepted her, fuck I feel such an asshole [luckily she only wants to be my fuckbuddy I hope it stays that way]) I'm aware that I'm digging my own grave, I mean I literally have a deal with Kim, but wouldn't it be too much to ask for at least 3 out of the 7 girls or at least 2 out of 7. A man can only dream.....

Edit - I signed a deal with Kim thinking I'd have legal issues due to my behavior with Jen, I never wanted to be a dick to Peter. I feel horrible, don't get me wrong I really vibe with Kim's personality but not this. Also it seems like Deb is not available is chap 4 ending on who's your crush if you choose the dominant option, I'm shocked people didn't go for Olivia when the stats showed up, she seems really chill. (52%)

 

[Mharzel]

I woke up and choose violence today, I lied to Lea saying we're exclusive, fucked Jen and Kim, argued and fucked Emma and fucked Deb too (I cured her sadness, maybe cheating ain't bad). I have an inkling the Kim route will lead to hell. (Don't get me wrong it feels horrible especially that scene with Lea [which would have been good if I didn't decide to cheat on her]) But I have decided to throw the run and let my little head do most of the thinking. Besides I'm a psychologist isn't playing with emotions part of the job.

Edit - I just realized, isn't Deb the second richest character next to the rich friend of ours. Her house seems bigger than Kim. Also do I not quit being a psychologist if I never had some fun with Jen? And is there a way to avoid chapter 5 end of me and Emma fucking. (assuming I was loyal with Lea all this time would this not occur) (66%)

 

[Mharzel]

Ok did 2 runs, turns out even if I stay professional I still leave psychology. So far it's been rough feels like a time traveler, knowing what answers lead to what, only reached (80% dialogue)

Emma, I tried both misogyny and humiliation route, not my forte. (I can't see myself hate fucking someone everyday)

Deb, I liked the bull route more than sub route. (Just a personal preference, but then the bull route is just one fuck scene.)

Jen and Lea, God bless them. If Olivia didn't exist these two would be tied for 1st place for best girl in my opinion, granted I molded both to my liking. (It would be a real shame if you stopped their advances, but you might have to break one of them in the long run)

Kim, the character I can relate to the most. (But she's 3rd on the list for me.)

Bri, other than the one night stand. She honestly feels like a side character that 3rd wheel (I'm sorry Bri fans)

Olivia, she's one of the boys. My personal pick for best girl despite the fact that there's no sex scenes for her yet. I would dare say she's the only person who acts like a person..... or maybe I'm just infatuated (been playing for 2 days)

*I feel like all hell will break loose in Chapter 6, depending on the route you take. You could either save Peter's ass from Kim or that option never shows up and you just fuck Emma. (Also found the option to not fuck Emma at the end of chapter 5, you just have to take the humiliation route)

 

[snoopK]

Personally, I applaud the "lovemeter mechanic" because it's based on logic. It comes from "causes", goes through "options" and "choices" and arrives at "consequences" and "rewards". Combined with the personality points and its quadrants, it does a great job at defining the MC's character and his troubled navigation through that group of friends.
At the very least, it beats the simple "love points" system most games use and tend push players into using walkthroughs because they fear being punished by too high thresholds or forced choices...
More than that, the "lovemeter" and skills system allow great, fun and fluid gameplay with clear options and not exactly any wrong choice.
That's one the things that makes Nothing is Forever stand out. The nature of the gameplay is naturally free and rewarding.

Oh! And another thing I've been wanting to comment on before but always seem to forget. This game has a good soundtrack. I know music has as much different effects as there are different people, moments and places, but I like it. The tracks seem to have been carefully chosen and do a good job at illustrating the different girls and situations.

We don't get any of that very often!

Just want to second this, have paused more than once already just to appreciate the ambience! Have you by any chance found the soundtrack? Or may I ask MrSilverLust directly (if you somehow see this?). Writing this reply with the "Will you regret the fall, or the times you did nothing at all / Here's one for dreamers" - song blasting on speakers! Had to pause the game to try and find it but I cannot! Help a negro out?? Please!

Thank you very much and thank you so much to the creator for blessing us with this coming of age story, which actually has helped me come to more than one personal insight already!

Big ups!

 

[Vleder]

Just want to second this, have paused more than once already just to appreciate the ambience! Have you by any chance found the soundtrack? Or may I ask MrSilverLust directly (if you somehow see this?). Writing this reply with the "Will you regret the fall, or the times you did nothing at all / Here's one for dreamers" - song blasting on speakers! Had to pause the game to try and find it but I cannot! Help a negro out?? Please!

Thank you very much and thank you so much to the creator for blessing us with this coming of age story, which actually has helped me come to more than one personal insight already!

Big ups!

Not sure I understand your question or maybe you didn't notice, but there's a "Music" option in the main menu that will take you to the track list. There you can listen to and identify the different tracks and look them up online, for example...

Music is the "thing" that makes the absolute difference. It's a pity that 99% of AVNs have the same and the worst selection of music. Mr.SilverLust has proven that's possible to make a hell of a difference and that's another factor behind the success of Nothing Is Forever. I'm sure if you have questions and tag him, he'll gladly answer like he's done here before so many times. He cares for this thread and has always been here when necessary...

Personally, music is my number one hobby. It's probably where I've spent the most money in all my life. I still collect music and buy a lot of records (physical copies, I mean!), to a point where I'm wondering if I will have time to listen to all of that... I've literally worn out a few CD and K7 players. Yes, yes, I'm that old! So, when some movie, TV series, game or AVN has good and fitting music, I always notice.

 

[snoopK]

Not sure I understand your question or maybe you didn't notice, but there's a "Music" option in the main menu that will take you to the track list. There you can listen to and identify the different tracks and look them up online, for example...

Music is the "thing" that makes the absolute difference. It's a pity that 99% of AVNs have the same and the worst selection of music. Mr.SilverLust has proven that's possible to make a hell of a difference and that's another factor behind the success of Nothing Is Forever. I'm sure if you have questions and tag him, he'll gladly answer like he's done here before so many times. He cares for this thread and has always been here when necessary...

Personally, music is my number one hobby. It's probably where I've spent the most money in all my life. I still collect music and buy a lot of records (physical copies, I mean!), to a point where I'm wondering if I will have time to listen to all of that... I've literally worn out a few CD and K7 players. Yes, yes, I'm that old! So, when some movie, TV series, game or AVN has good and fitting music, I always notice.

Ooooh thank you so much, I hadn't noticed! Will check that out right away.

I agree with you on them all using the same music. I remember the first AVN I played and I was like damn this has some pretty good assumingly royalty free music, then I played the next and the next and the music just kept repeating this one really stands out in that regard, among many others!

I also love music, though recently I've been more into making my own (guitar, singing[though I've completely butchered my voice, but still...]) rather than listening haha though I have started listening to old music I used to listen to again, but yeah, my main music listening years was before the depression/existential crisis that I've spent my last couple of years dealing with to the best of my abilities. Might slowly be easing back into it though, perhaps I'm also no youngster (early-ish 30s), but it's interesting to note that I've had differing proclivities in listening to music in different periods of my life already haha.

 

[Vleder]

I've played plenty of games with good music. I like a few tracks on NiF, but I've also heard these same tracks in other games too, they are all public free tracks that artists put up for anyone to use, afaik.

One thing I will say about the music though, maybe it's just me but when I'm trying to read if I hear vocals/talking I can't concentrate on what I'm reading, or even hearing actually. You don't really hear vocal tracks during dialogue in movies or shows or video games or anime for the most part, I actually don't really remember any time. The vocals usually are only done when characters are not talking. That was one of my nitpicks, but I never thought it was worth just bring up by itself, now that the topic of music is at hand though I'll just toss in my two cents.

I get what you mean, even though it doesn't work like that for me... Maybe because most popular music is sung in English (not my native language)? I really don't know.
About songs in games, I'm suddenly reminded of the most popular tavern sons in Dragon Age or the Cyberpunk soundtrack, each excellent in it's own way, playing regardless of dialogues.
But it's true that there's great chance of listening to the same music if we're talking about public free tracks. What happens in NiF that is different, in my opinion, is how MrSilverLust selected and placed those tracks throughout the game. But, if we're talking about nitpicks, one of mine is just how everyone seems to forget that music and sounds are engineered differently and should be normalized when placed together. That really tests my patience.