Ntr OR Harem

[Wolf Larsen]

NTR games are the ones that go side by side with the corruption genre. The women are a cumdump, doing things to an evil bastard (the antagonist), while the protagonist is a sad loser.

Harem is considered vanilla, going along with the romance genre. Almost all harem games have a romantic aspect, but with multiple women (if this is done in a shallow way, that's another story). The protagonist in 90% of harem games does not fall into the complete evil bastard category.

It's a bit silly and unrealistic. But it's an erotic fantasy. NTR is also extremely over the top, so let's not bring UUHH REALISM to the table, please.

And please, let's stop with this moronic sophism that harem is evil corruption while NTR is the gentle side of the coin. NTR is defined by betrayal and a sense of humiliation. Harem is pretty much "happy, happy times, everything is okay, my girlfriends love me and are okay with sharing me among them".

 

[hysepReC]

Lets play devils advocat here. Most harem games don't have a better story either, cock hungry chicks jump on the mc's dick as soon as they see him. Does that sound better? A lot of these games get the highest praises, are the people who praise them also sickos?

Fact is that not every game with NTR is great or even decent, hell most of them are just as shit as the majority of harem games. The only difference is that one is a kink that makes the mob grab their pitchforks and start the namecalling.

It's all a matter of perspective, mate. You're right in saying there are a lot of bad harem games with no build up, i don't enjoy those kind of games either but at worst, they're just silly and don't offend anybody. NTR, on the other hand, is all about being betrayed and stirring up negative emotions and if you get off on that, then there is something seriously wrong with you in my opinion.

People like to insult harem games by reducing them to "collecting waifus like pokemon" but let's not pretend NTR games are any more realistic. Women in real life don't act like they do in NTR games. "That guy raped/blackmailed me for sex, should i tell my husband or go to the police? Nah, i'll just let him do it again because it felt so good!". If you enjoy this then whatever, it's fucking weird to me but you can't help what turns you on i guess just don't try to pretend like you're some kind of connoisseur and act as if you're better than harem fans.

 

[Yngling]

The protagonist in 90% of harem games does not fall into the complete evil bastard category.

I guess that depends on how you look at that, but ok.
A lot of harem games do feature things like shower peeking and sleep molestation, so....

But:

NTR is defined by betrayal and a sense of humiliation. Harem is pretty much "happy, happy times, everything is okay, my girlfriends love me and are okay with sharing me among them".

That is indeed a good summary.

In the end, an NTR game ends with the MC being deeply unhappy. A harem game ends with everybody living happily ever after (regardless of how they came there).

 

[klopks]

i'm sick of games where you are the only one dick on planet. the only one who have privilege to bang chicks. We need more realism in adult games. Where are affair stories? cheating? struggling for somebody's else girlfriend/wife? i would love to see female characters with background story with someone else before you. There are girls, women, milfs with their own lives. To many games where a number of virgins waiting just for you. This is just not real.
BTW. can someone show game that match some of these conditions?

 

[Chalker]

i'm sick of games where you are the only one dick on planet. the only one who have privilege to bang chicks. We need more realism in adult games. Where are affair stories? cheating? struggling for somebody's else girlfriend/wife? i would love to see female characters with background story with someone else before you. There are girls, women, milfs with their own lives. To many games where a number of virgins waiting just for you. This is just not real.
BTW. can someone show game that match some of these conditions?

Most characters aren't realistic even if they're not virgins because at the end of the day adult games is a baby industry, especially in the west, majority of the authors are subpar at best. Making the character not a virgin won't make then any less of a cardboard cut out, despite people having this weird delusion that it does.

 

[Meaning Less]

And please, let's stop with this moronic sophism that harem is evil corruption while NTR is the gentle side of the coin.

I guess it depends from where you are looking from:
-Harem games showcase women like objects to be collected and replaced at will.
-NTR games depict men like objects to be discarded and replaced.

But in the end they are all games depicting fantasies. That's why it doesn't matter and trying to argue that one is better than the other is pointless.

The best thing is for different genres to simply exist because that way people can find what they like, it's that simple.

 

[klopks]

Most characters aren't realistic even if they're not virgins because at the end of the day adult games is a baby industry, especially in the west, majority of the authors are subpar at best. Making the character not a virgin won't make then any less of a cardboard cut out, despite people having this weird delusion that it does.

true, being a virgin is not that important. Far more important is that she want to jump on your dick from the first sight because you are "handsome" and have big dick. This is just silly

 

[Wolf Larsen]

-NTR games depict men like objects to be discarded and replaced.

I reply to you just this once because this is extremely untrue. There's nothing of "female empowerment" in NTR games. Women are treated like useless objects there, in even worse ways than a harem game would ever do, but this is not done by the protagonist, but by the antagonist and/or multiple other people/animals/monsters/corpses.

 

[Uthuriel]

-Harem games showcase women like objects to be collected and replaced at will.

But in the end they are all games depicting fantasies.

Play better harem games then... seems like you only played shitty ones...
I agree on the fantasy part though...

true, being a virgin is not that important. Far more important is that she want to jump on your dick from the first sight because you are "handsome" and have big dick. This is just silly

Sure... but women hopping on the next big dick to cuck their BFs is "super cereal" and not silly at all...

 

[Meaning Less]

Women are treated like useless objects there, in even worse ways than a harem game would ever do, but this is not done by the protagonist, but by the antagonist and/or multiple other people/animals/monsters/corpses.

Well, I don't know what to say aside from the fact that every woman seems to be satisfied by the end of every ntr game, because they find more pleasure with someone else... That's how they create jealousy in the first place.

If the women were not liking it then they wouldn't be stolen and it would stop being ntr and just be rape or similar.

 

[klopks]

Sure... but women hopping on the next big dick to cuck their BFs is "super cereal" and not silly at all...

yes, you're describing most games stories. I wish there are not just that cliche stories.

 

[Carpe Stultus]

It's all a matter of perspective, mate. You're right in saying there are a lot of bad harem games with no build up, i don't enjoy those kind of games either but at worst, they're just silly and don't offend anybody. NTR, on the other hand, is all about being betrayed and stirring up negative emotions and if you get off on that, then there is something seriously wrong with you in my opinion.

People like to insult harem games by reducing them to "collecting waifus like pokemon" but let's not pretend NTR games are any more realistic. Women in real life don't act like they do in NTR games. "That guy raped/blackmailed me for sex, should i tell my husband or go to the police? Nah, i'll just let him do it again because it felt so good!". If you enjoy this then whatever, it's fucking weird to me but you can't help what turns you on i guess just don't try to pretend like you're some kind of connoisseur and act as if you're better than harem fans.

People also insult NTR games, players and devs. Yes most NTR games are not realistic by a longshot but if well written, it can be way more realistic than any harem game can be because it is something that could happen. All that stuff like getting raped/blackmailed and going back is just unrealistic bullshit and hopefully not what the people you've mentioned had in mind when they wrote that NTR games are more realistic.

People on both sides need to learn to leave each other, the devs and the threads alone if they see a kink they don't like. Let everyone jerk off to in peace to whatever the hell they want.

 

[Chalker]

Well, I don't know what to say aside from the fact that every woman seems to be satisfied by the end of every ntr game, because they find more pleasure with someone else... That's how they create jealousy in the first place.

If the women were not liking it then they wouldn't be stolen and it would stop being ntr and just be rape or similar.

>satisfied by the end of every ntr game
>If the women were not liking it then they wouldn't be stolen and it would stop being ntr and just be rape or similar.
Oh yes, conjectures and ignoring ntr type B and C, which eliminates about 70% of ntr games in total...

 

[Uthuriel]

..because it is something that could happen...

What a stupid thing to say... u know how it ends? IRL? Either they break up or in homicide... or do you really think people are going to accept a cheating partner that easily?
I recommend you get up from your PC a bit and smell the fresh air outside...

 

[Jaike]

Went with harem. Would've been kinda helpful for the discussion if the OP clarified if NTR means only netorare or netorare, netorase and netori, but I assumed it meant just netorare. It wouldn't have changed my answer.

I actually select games I play for something else entirely, but if it has the harem tag I may check it if looks decent and if it has the ntr I usually pass up. Implementation can also be an issue, not everything mixes as well together.

I'm the first to admit many harem and netorare games alike are crappy and that the crappy ones share many of the same flaws, like big magic penis seduction, black hole personalities who spent all points on luck, incoherent characters and overreliance on poorly written coercion. Dark and edgy harem games resemble that in particular. An example of a poor edgy harem game with all these flaws is Isis. Though my experience is that netorare games tend to rely a lot more on idiotic rape tropes that looks like shit from incel ideology. Hell, netorare fans subcategorised the genre based on rape.

You can find story-driven harem games with a serious tone like Sorcerer, or tongue-in-cheek ones like Once in a Lifetime, or serious ones with a harem planned like DLC, but I haven't found (or heard of) a similar quality in netorare games. That may be a result of a smaller market or just coincidence, but it could also be inherent to the genre. The closest I can think of is Seed of Chaos though that plot suffers from common dark and edgy tropes.

The claim that netorare is analogical to harem is overdone. If anything a harem game usually ends up like netorase from the LIs' view. And if it's a same-sex harem (yes, super rare) where everyone shares everyone that's not even the case. And there's no "stealing" most of the time in harem games unless it's also a netori game, even then devs often go for the bad partner trope to justify it. Another difference is compatibility with romance, the harem genre is moderately compatible with romance if it's not overdone with "one true love" talk all the time, netorare is a subgenre of hard corruption so it combines in practice poorly with romance.

That's my two cents.

Hmm, I am surprised. Over 30% would go for ntr instead of a baseline dream men have.

I assume rating harem is easier than ntr. So might be even closer to 50/50.
That is a lot more for ntr than I thought.

Your assumption is unfounded and it's likely totally wrong too. General discussions attracts its own crowd that's relatively critical about the content in the more popular games. Polls usually have outcomes that underrepresent the actual popular view as a result. So a poll like this suggests that male and female MCs are almost equally popular, but actual numbers drawn from the bigger pond (views, downloads, upvotes, Patreon support) give a very different picture.

I mean, if you don't like XYZ content (swinging content is tagged, harem isn't), fine, don't play it. But if you do, then don't bitch about it for whatever reason.

I agree that it's better to avoid stuff you're likely to dislike and I also think that rating something with one star just because you hate a tag is idiotic, but if you've played a game fully and think a tag detracts from the game it should be fine to rate it lower for it if you write an adequate review even if you hate the tag. Although I question the sanity of anybody who does that often.

 

[Yngling]

Yes most NTR games are not realistic by a longshot but if well written, it can be way more realistic than any harem game can be because it is something that could happen.

Eh, I disagree. A harem with with a limited amount of girls would definately be possible. It may well be hell on earth but it is possible.

Above I mentioned some games. Of course some of them have some (or a lot) of fantasy elements, but I think the writing is good and the situations are pretty realistic. And there are many more like them.

People on both sides need to learn to leave each other, the devs and the threads alone if they see a kink they don't like. Let everyone jerk off to in peace to whatever the hell they want.

This

Sorry, out of likes for today...

 

[Yngling]

I agree that it's better to avoid stuff you're likely to dislike and I also think that rating something with one star just because you hate a tag is idiotic, but if you've played a game fully and think a tag detracts from the game it should be fine to rate it lower for it if you write an adequate review even if you hate the tag. Although I question the sanity of anybody who does that often.

Review Rules
6. Your review shouldn't be solely focused on your feelings about a specific genre.

https://f95zone.to/threads/review-rating-rules-updated-2021-05-31.1753/

I think it is perfectly fair to write in the text that you didn't like this or that scene or tag. Maybe even subtract 1 star from your overall rating. But I don't think it's fair to base a complete review on your dislike of a certain fetish. And a lot of people choose to play games based on tags and number of stars.

 

[Jaike]

https://f95zone.to/threads/review-rating-rules-updated-2021-05-31.1753/

I think it is perfectly fair to write in the text that you didn't like this or that scene or tag. Maybe even subtract 1 star from your overall rating. But I don't think it's fair to base a complete review on your dislike of a certain fetish. And a lot of people choose to play games based on tags and number of stars.

We're in complete agreement on that then, I think subtracting more than 1 star just for one tag or scene would be unfair.

Edited: Tbh, I'd say subtracting a point only for a tag or scene is a little much, it should actually be argued that it detracts from the total product.

 

[Chalker]

We're in complete agreement on that then, I think subtracting more than 1 star just for one tag or scene would be unfair.

I mean, if I was to look up a sushi restaurant and the one star reviews complained about how fishy everything is... I wouldn't take them to seriously.

 

[Wolf Larsen]

I mean, if I was to look up a sushi restaurant and the one star reviews complained about how fishy everything is... I wouldn't take them to seriously.

"There are no vegan options in this steakhouse".