Alright, I was going to let this go but your last post gives me the impression that you think you’ve won our little debate – you haven’t. You failed to address any of the weaknesses I pointed out in your argument. So let’s go back to the source of it:
You basically said that NTR games always fail. Or that NTR games can’t be successful. (“down the graveyard where all the games are buried that wanted to make NTR tasteful, or tell the story so that even the most adamant hater will love it. Non of those devs are around anymore.”) I disagreed, and while I conceded the point that the most successful games on F95zone do not have the netorare or swinging tags, there IS a market for those games. I mentioned the successful studio Lesson of Passion, whose top sellers are all games with swinging. You seem to think you addressed my point by writing “Same with your comparison to the "Lesson of Passion"-Devs they are super senior devs in the scene and telling new devs to do it like them is like telling a new App-dev to make his breakthrough into the industry like Microsoft did it with the Windows 11 rollout.” The fact that LOP is an established studio has no bearing on the question of whether there is a market for NTR/swinging games. Clearly, the fact that LOP has been successful for so long means that there IS a market for those kinds of games.
Next, you claim that patreon numbers show that “NTR and Swinging is faceplanting on there regularly,” and then in your next posts, that Dessert Stalker is “the only game the NTR game fan base can point to” [as a successful NTR game], and that “desert stalker is the one of the proverbial exceptions that proofs the rule.” I can easily prove you wrong there. You say Dessert Stalker is the exception, but you DO also mention Mr.DotsGames, which uses the swinging tag and has 2219 paid members (more than Dessert Stalker, and another example of success. Now, how about these other three:
Four Elements Trainer: 6014 paid members
Love, Sex, and Second Base: 4039 paid members (and disclose $21,390 a month, pretty fucking good!)
Photo Hunt: 1163 paid members (and disclose $7,332 per month)
That’s three more that are highly successful and show that Dessert Stalker is absolutely not an exception. That’s after 5 minutes of looking around – our argument isn’t worth me spending any more time on it.
In sum, there is a market out there for NTR/swinging games. You have failed in trying to prove there is not. But, you do seem like an interesting and relatively smart person, and you’ve been civil the whole time, so thanks for having this discussion with me.
- Feb 4, 2024
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i don't say that there isn't a market. there is literally a market for anything you can imagine and some stuff you don't want to think about too much. Your also right that there are some successful games in that niche but a) they are far fewer than games without and even fewer of them are (only relative) successful.
b) its also important to look how they added swinging (and many other factors).
As you probably already gathered my interest in swinging games is pretty much non existente but im pretty sure that at least Photo Hunt and Four Elements Trainer introduced that kink far far into the games existence and I'm sure I'm talking years.
Same with MC Dots Games i told you they are successful never said something else but if you took a look at the graph for more then a few months you see that they are in a constant decline since they introduced that stuff later in their second game.
If you pull a fast one later in game you wont lose all people that would probably had avoided the game if it was clear from the start in which way it later devolve, you get the people that are some what indifferent that stay, you get people that stay because of the emotional connection they made with some of the characters, you will get people keep sticking around because of the sunk cost fallacy (happened even to me), but the game will lose a significant part of the player base and potential or current backer.
It also is important how that content is implemented, some are okay with it if its avoidable per player choice, or when its side content or a single bad end, far fewer people will stick around if its the Main LIs and even fewer still if its unavoidable.
Stuff like that is pretty much ever negative for the game story, purely from a storytelling perspective. It leads to inconsistencies in the displayed characters, in their values and morals and so on. i have to cut it short cause im sleepy as fuck didn't got enough sleep the last few days.
Cheers
I think we can just agree to disagree. I guess I got you to concede that NTR games can be successful, and I've already conceded that the very highest grossing games on F95zone/Patreon don't usually have the NTR/swinging tag. You gave me some stuff to think about, so thanks. Hope you got caught up on your sleep.
A skill tree? With tonnes of different characters?
Oh boy. Really hope the scale remains manageable, this is the perfect recipe for burnout and I'm really liking the game.
Oh boy. Really hope the scale remains manageable, this is the perfect recipe for burnout and I'm really liking the game.