- Jul 20, 2021
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Very well conveyed, and some very good advice for any new developer starting a new project with so many controversial kink tags in one project.
And some have mentioned this developer has already tried their hand at creating a similar project with heavy cuck and sharing content. Well I hope the dev considers that forced cuck content has a very small limited audience.
Regards.
Even though I know his previous "project" reading this leaves at a loss for words.
How cute, and ending with all the girls and their breeders all happily around MC.
Juerhullycin Thanks mate, would have missed it otherwise
- Jun 29, 2024
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I will. Stay tuned for the next update in October.
Aren't you missing the possibility of just plain "fuck buddies"? No dom/sub aspect at all. No humiliation. You know a hot girl that thinks you are hot too. Neither of you wants to be monogamous, so you fuck sometimes, aware that each of you is also fucking others. I can't speak for the dev, but so far the feeling of this game for me is more like that, than any of the three NTR categories your accusing it of being in.
I have another question. If any time you see a girl fucking another guy is one of these types of NTR, then what is watching regular porn? If I watch a girl I think is hot fuck some pornstar dude in a video, am I being cucked?
- Apr 30, 2023
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Porn is only for ' Fapping '. The majority of members on this forum are gamers and a gamer just wants to win...always, damn it. AVNs are basically video games, it's not just porn.
" I have another question. If any time you see a girl fucking another guy is one of these types of NTR, then what is watching regular porn? If I watch a girl I think is hot fucking some pornstar dude in a video, am I being cucked? "
No, it means you need to empty your balls
- Jul 20, 2021
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Hmm...well those three examples were just my take on the NTR kink (which I still never understood the whole "routing for the other team" mentality, when it comes to giving up or sharing a love interest...so some other dude can contaminate her with his DNA...
). Also those examples have nothing to do with this story, I just felt many dev's misunderstand those tags...or the impact they can have at securing a decent and reliable revenue stream. Marketing a harem path with those controversial kinks will not do well (unless it's made as an avoidable choice), and there are plenty of previous titles to prove this point. (Now writing, story and visual content structure are also crucial for a title to become financially viable. There is also the amount of content and time it takes for story content to be released, as that matters as well. ) And I'm not saying NTR, sharing, and swinging can't fit well together, because it can for fans who like that content. But only if it's targeted properly to that specific group, instead of trying over reach into other groups that don't relate at all to those controversial kinks...it will flop due to a number of reasons.
And if the dev is actually looking to generate enough of a decent revenue stream from their hard work (which was stated he does)...learning form their past and other failed titles, it can help with getting his project on the right footing for a successful run. And also considering the dev has already made an attempt at creating a similar AVN, which became abandoned...should be considered.
But trying to including content that is totally repulsed by one of the big groups, will most likely end in another abandoned title...because it's hard to appease both groups that are completely the opposite of the kink spectrum, while trying to put out enough content to appease both...will not go well.
And with regards to porn...porn is like your a third party watching from behind the scenes (or camera). But an AVN is always setup as your the MC in a first person view, and as the MC (you)...will have many choices that will impact the character and the story your playing. This where my NTR playing for the other team analogy comes in for me... Where your attending a home team game, wearing the team jersey and yet only routing for other team to win. That is hard to understand if your playing and directing the action of the MC.
So no porn videos are not cucking the watcher...because your not playing as the porn-star, your watching it as it all plays out as the bystander, not as a character in choice based story.
Regards.
Hmm, I admit that is an interesting point that never occurred to me before. Certainly harem and relationship simulators are obvious winning-means-banging-the-babe games.
But what about corruption games? If the goal of the game is to get the chick you don't care about to become a total cumslut and fuck every guy in town, is that NTR, under the broad definitions offered above? You see other guys fuck the main girl...
Your comment also makes me interested in whether the humiliation/femdom variety of NTR games are more for gamers, or for guys wanting to fap. If winning is getting the loved one to betray you... I don't know, I'm truly curious about people's thoughts on that. I guess I think some genres of adult video games are more for the gaming experience, and others are more for the fap experience. I mean, VNs are definitely about fapping too - there is no winning in that case, right? You've just got me thinking - thanks.
Alright, all good points.Hmm...well those three examples were just my take on the NTR kink (which I still never understood the whole "routing for the other team" mentality, when it comes to giving up or sharing a love interest...so some other dude can contaminate her with his DNA...
Regards.
One thing I disagree with you on is trying to target a specific market. That's how we end up with all the same games, same themes, same tropes, etc... I think the best work is created by following your own creative instinct - the dev should make a game that they think is really hot and fun. I write games too, and I can't write a scene well that I don't think is hot myself. So in my opinion, this dev should follow their instincts, and so far so good.
- Apr 25, 2023
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Yikes, good luck trying to sell it as a haremI get it. I knew that TAGS discussion never ends, and creates a lot of noise, about things not remotely close in the game yet.
I decided to stick with F95 definitions because there is no other sensible way.
But....
1. Girls will not be generated from a single mold. The same rules DON'T apply to each one. So... some will be eager to engage in acts with other men if allowed, some not at all.
2. There will be girls not yet with MC, and they will engage with other men.
3. There will be random/stranger girls, with nothing to do with harem.
In an ideal world, I’d create branching: for those who like things 'pure' and those who prefer them 'funky'. But that would either result in these actions having no impact on the plot (which is possible at some distant point), or it would generate so much branching and skipping that it wouldn’t make sense at all.
Personally: I'm also quite possessive, BUT I also like funky...
ANYWAY: I'm nowhere near it with development, and I think it's pointless. I prefer talking about actual products, not advertisements ESPECIALLY IN GAME INDUSTRY.
(don't wanna end like AAA productions lately)
Ah, there we go, that explains alot about the devs "views". Anyway time to forget and move on.
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- Jun 28, 2022
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Yes, that is also a form of NTR. It is called Netorase. Which means the mc willingly lets his women sleep with other men/women and enjoys it
Netorare is when they are doing it behind the mc's back against his will
Netori is the mc stealing other peoples love interests for himself
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- Feb 4, 2024
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yes it is he shares her with others that's a form of swinging, also this is the exact point i made in my prior post its not really NTR but because we need to discuss that scenario in the first place you can be assured that neither the Harem nor the majority of the vanilla crowd appreciate stuff like that in the game.
yes a creative should follow his vision, but he should also set his expectations inside of our shared reality.
We have tropes and genres for a reason. It's quite simple because they work. You don't need to look further than what Hollywood has done the last few years.
the producers and the Filmstudio for Bros paid nearly 100Mill$ for a Gay romantic Comedy and that movie flopped with crossing just bellow 15mill$ world wide. I could have told them that it's a shit idea to make a gay romcom. Hell, every single random person on the street could have told them that it's a shit idea. Romcoms are watched by women. The movie was destined to fail.
Same with that whole Marvel/Disney girl boss bullshit they destroyed the two most valuable franchises that ever existed in a few years. Both Marvel and Star Wars are Brands that were focused on Boys/Men, they bought them both because they had nothing targeted specifically at the male audience, then, for what ever the fuck their reasoning was, they started pivoting them towards a female audience and now we only get slop and shit. Spoiler alert the Women that liked Star Wars and Marvel liked it before it was changed for roughly the same reason Men liked it.
So genres are a thing for a reason, the same with tropes. Can you break them? Sure and sometimes it works fantastically. Most of the time it simply doesn't. Breaking the mold is something thousand of people are doing every day most of it ends as shit and is forgotten.
you cant take a gander down memory lane here on this side, down the graveyard where all the games are buried that wanted to make NTR tasteful, or tell the story so that even the most adamant hater will love it. Non of those devs are around anymore.
and to the porn aspect sure it has pornographic components but that makes it only harder for developer.
Would you watch 2 hours of gay porn? and i mean truly watching it not on a second screen with the audio so low that you don't hear anything? if not why not?
im pretty sure the same answer to that question is the answer why Harem fans don't want other people to fuck their Lis in games they play. It's unappealing to them / a turn off. so why support or play this game when others don't turn you off?
Thanks for your well thought-out response. I see your point in some ways and and some ways I think we can just agree to disagree.
The biggest reasons games on this site don't make money is because we are taking them for free - I bet as many harem games get abandoned as swinging, but I'm not going to do a search and count. Actually, fuck it, 'll do a quick-and-dirty test. I went to latest updates and sorted by views. Then I asked for the harem tag and counted how many abandoned games on the first page: 8/30. Then I did the NTR tag: 6/30. Not exactly scientific, but certainly inconsistent with your claim.
What does happen, though, is NTR haters post rabid, ferociously bad reviews on games that have the NTR tag, lowering the star rating and making them less likely to come up on a top-game search.
So, from a strategic point of view, I can understand why that tag seems like poison, but I know the market is out there. Games like "Living with Temptation" by the Lesson of Passion studio are full of the LIs having sex with other men and sold hundreds of thousands of copies on Steam.
I don't think you are right about that point. There are plenty of highly successful adult video games with sharing and swinging, and even betrayal (though that's not my kink). Look on Steam, not here, and you'll see.
The biggest reasons games on this site don't make money is because we are taking them for free - I bet as many harem games get abandoned as swinging, but I'm not going to do a search and count. Actually, fuck it, 'll do a quick-and-dirty test. I went to latest updates and sorted by views. Then I asked for the harem tag and counted how many abandoned games on the first page: 8/30. Then I did the NTR tag: 6/30. Not exactly scientific, but certainly inconsistent with your claim.
What does happen, though, is NTR haters post rabid, ferociously bad reviews on games that have the NTR tag, lowering the star rating and making them less likely to come up on a top-game search.
So, from a strategic point of view, I can understand why that tag seems like poison, but I know the market is out there. Games like "Living with Temptation" by the Lesson of Passion studio are full of the LIs having sex with other men and sold hundreds of thousands of copies on Steam.
Yeah, fine, so including both NTR and Harem tag, will make enemies of the Harem/NO NTR crowd, but it will keep the NTR crowd interested, and keep the harem crowd who don't mind a character or two that is slutty interested as well. I think it's still a big market. But yeah, I would never watch gay porn...
- Feb 4, 2024
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where did you get those numbers from? genuine interested, most accurate numbers we have access to are the patreon numbers and NTR and Swinging is faceplanting on there regularly, but i'm willing to expand my database if you have some reliable sources for steam
and not just a developer that told you he bought his second Ferrari because of his steams sales on a "just trust me bro" basis
Fair enough, I shouldn't have thrown out numbers that I can't prove. But that Lesson of Passion Studio has been around for over a decade, putting out multiple games a year with a subscription site as well as steam sales, a stable of artists, writers, and even dedicated location creator. (All this can be learned by checking out their weekly blog, which I do). Though we don't know how much money the company makes, we should be able to agree that they aren't "faceplanting". Also according to the blog,"Living with Temptation" is their most popular game, followed by "Eleanor", and both have NTR according to the above definitions. But I shouldn't have written that they sell hundreds of thousands of copies without proof, so I take it back and concede that point. You should be as reasonable and concede that NTR games are no more likely to get abandoned than harem games.
Also please explain this "numbers we have access to are the Patreon numbers and NTR and Swinging is faceplanting on there regularly". Do you mean that you are regularly checking up on NTR games on Patreon to see if they are doing well? I guess that may be true, but it would be odd. More likely is that you are just saying that with no proof, just like I did with the sales numbers. But regardless we can go ahead and look at Patreon sales of popular NTR games now and see what they make. Weighted rating tells me "Dessert Stalker" is the most highly rated game with the "Swinging" Tag and they have 1937 paid members. That's not nearly as much as the current most popular harem tag game (Eternum, with 6157 paid members), but's it's also not faceplanting, especially if it's just one or two guys (at an average support of 4 USD per member, that could be almost $8000/month minus whatever Patreon takes. Now, sure Eternum could be making $25000/ month but games with that level of success are rare, and it's not purely the Harem-with-no-NTR aspect that is making it successful: it's an incredibly slick production all around. Anyway, adult video games are like musicians: Only the very best make a lot of money, most don't. So telling Lollipop not to make a harem-with-NTR game so that he could possible make Eternum-level of money is like telling a rapper to try and sing pop like Taylor Swift or Beyonce.
- Feb 4, 2024
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im sure you know about
You must be registered to see the links
where you can get all the numbers about pretty much anyone on patreon and how they are doing.its funny how it always gets back to Desert Stalker because its the only game the NTR game fan base can point to and to be honest they waited till they had a large enough fanbase before they pulled their bait and switch, the game started out as pure harem game and a few years in they switched to swinging garbage and i and a whole lot of people i know stopped playing it that day.
But i told you, in my first answer to you, that yes you can mix stuff and sometimes it takes off like they invented sliced bread.
Your dig telling dev to copy Eternum while admittedly true, it wouldnt work, is also misleading Caribdis had a prior game that was massively successful and his fans naturally followed Eternum. So comparing a new game to Eternum is neither helpful nor intellectual honest. Same with your comparison to the "Lesson of Passion"-Devs they are super senior devs in the scene and telling new devs to do it like them is like telling a new App-dev to make his breakthrough into the industry like Microsoft did it with the Windows 11 rollout.
Older devs had the advantage that the market wasn't saturated and that besides some Japanes AVNs and some flesh games the market was completely empty. If you Compare any games the great devs with a ton of followers and income started with to new games today that are failing because of graphics, or a basic storyline that tells nothing new, or sandboxes with grindy gameplay man, then i got news for you not a single one of them would be competitive today. They had the luck, foresight, skill, whatever, to be the first in an absence of real competition.
That the market is saturated does not only mean its harder to break into but also that more people are cagy with supporting new devs because we got burned countless times with broken promises, shitty plot twists to subvert expectations, and surprise NTR two years into development. Players get also more picky. Hell, a year a go i was in the lesbian a hawt faction and today it gets pushed so much in every fucking game that i cant stop rolling my eyes.
I didn't know about graphtreon, thanks.
I mentioned dessert stalker because it came up as number 1 when sorted by weighted rating, and using the tag swinging. I've never actually played it, and I'm sure there are more successful games with the swinging tag out there, but I'm not going to search through them all.
I didn't tell the dev to copy Eternum - my point was the exact opposite.
- Feb 4, 2024
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sorry then i understood you wrong.
desert stalker is the one of the proverbial exceptions that proofs the rule.
there is to my knowledge no game as financial successful as DS in that category, at least not on patreon. Which is the only reliable source we have. Every dev that doesn't has his head up his own ass knows that sharing, swinging, and NTR are a financial death kneel for your game.
If they are in it for the kinks and dont give a fuck about money then more power to them.
as good as the ratings are desert stalker isn't even in the top 100 of adult game creators on patreon while Caribdis with his fairly vanilla Harem game that gets updated once per year is right now on rank 14 with an estimated earning of roughly 14 grand per month. Don't get me wrong i would also take the 4.500 for desert stalker, but despite the far more unique setting, the shorter and more consistent update cycle, they aren't even close to pure harem games.
Mr.DotsGames is one of the old quasi OG dev teams they added it back then with their second game "Dating my Daughter" and later told in a blog post that it was the worst decision they ever made, and since then they are bleeding patreons constantly for the 3th game in a row. Yes they were that successful back then that they can bleed patreons for years and make still good money. but its far far from their peak before they started with that shit.
your welcome.
Unrelated to the other conversations going, but I appreciate this as possibly one the main reasons I like harem games. Not to offend any developers, but I don't know if I have ever played an AVN that was so good I had to play it again just to get a different girl's path. A large part of that is that most won't have enough new content in said playthrough to justify it and if it did, it would probably be enough work to be its own game anyway.