VN Ren'Py Abandoned Our Fate - A new family [v0.15 SE] [CedSense]

[Walg]

Put it this way, I'd far rather have a game with a great story that took time to properly develop the relationships, than a game that developed the character relationships well but really fast so it could incinerate one of them in a fire by episode 6...

Let. It. Go. Have an issue? Go back to the thread it belongs in.


We can all agree that it's not DMD slow as @Kendra's implying. You could argue it's going quicker than some organic real life relationships that @CedSense is trying to capture. You could also argue that some bits could be moved quicker so you get to see what you're really after. But taking what @CedSense said about every side character being important, wouldn't you want the story to be fully developed so you understand why they're so important and how they react?

 

[Alfius]

Bear in mind several of the distinctive features of the case, because they matter.

1. This isn't the daughter that has been around the home for years, or even months. It's been just weeks, still easily countable in days, since he discovered he had a daughter. Now, the exact thought process depends on which route you are taking, but whichever, you can understand that this isn't someone he knows well, can predict the reactions of, or can easily even gauge his own reactions towards. Yeah, he's cautious, because they really are not part of each other's lives for more than just a couple of weeks. One misstep could send her running away - and he doesn't even know her well enough to read her signals yet, nor she his.

2. BDSM really isn't my thing so I've not been seeking out the domination routes especially. I've taken the dominant path a few times mostly because the other alternative was a submissive one, and that definitely wasn't where I wanted to take my playthrough. However, I've seen more than one poster in the thread who especially picked out the domination to praise. I think for the exact same reasons that the pace is right. If you go pulling out the whips and un-prepped buttsex on someone on the first night, it doesn't tend to make them a fan of more. Instead the game seems to have a believable pace of starting simple and getting more adventurous - just as the experiences with the daughter are going.

3. One of the most popular games is Dating My Daughter and just how many episodes and updates were there to that before daughter started getting physical? 12? More? I honestly can't remember but I'm pretty sure this game will get there with a few more updates too, sooner than DMD did, and a hell of a lot more believably.

Just my two cents on the pacing.

1) First of, I love this games pacing so far.
2) The progress in DMD is a bit off. You can fool her into rubbing her tits and masturbation HJ, BJ, but draws the line at sex. Similar to Lisa in Big Brother. This is a bit odd.
3) The best and most realistic progress I have found so far is The daughter in "Daughter for Desserts".

In my experience in RL it's like breaking a wall. So progress is like breaking the wall, the tools are kissing, making out, heavy petting, dry humping etc.. You will not get HJ, BJ and all that kinda thing while trying to break the wall, but once broken it will basically jump straight to sex together with HJ BJ and all that goes with it.

 

[Walg]

Just my two cents on the pacing.

1) First of, I love this games pacing so far.
2) The progress in DMD is a bit off. You can fool her into rubbing her tits and masturbation HJ, BJ, but draws the line at sex. Similar to Lisa in Big Brother. This is a bit odd.
3) The best and most realistic progress I have found so far is The daughter in "Daughter for Desserts".

In my experience in RL it's like breaking a wall. So progress is like breaking the wall, the tools are kissing, making out, heavy petting, dry humping etc.. You will not get HJ, BJ and all that kinda thing while trying to break the wall, but once broken it will basically jump straight to sex together with HJ BJ and all that goes with it.

Best to say everyone has different real life experiences. Some, like you, have the wall the break down. Others, are curious creatures and so when they "discover" HJ's, BJ's, etc, they try it out like the coming of age scripts. There's so many dependents that it's always difficult to say that one way is the tried and true because there's multiple. It comes down to whether the actions and thoughts fit the scenario created as a realistic possibility and how it's developed after that.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Just my two cents on the pacing.

1) First of, I love this games pacing so far.
2) The progress in DMD is a bit off. You can fool her into rubbing her tits and masturbation HJ, BJ, but draws the line at sex. Similar to Lisa in Big Brother. This is a bit odd.
3) The best and most realistic progress I have found so far is The daughter in "Daughter for Desserts".

In my experience in RL it's like breaking a wall. So progress is like breaking the wall, the tools are kissing, making out, heavy petting, dry humping etc.. You will not get HJ, BJ and all that kinda thing while trying to break the wall, but once broken it will basically jump straight to sex together with HJ BJ and all that goes with it.

Yeah, the 'progression ladder' or 'stairway to heaven' trope is generally a badly written game-pacing mechanic, rather than anything resembling life.

In life, or at least adult life, you usually have the dating and making out to see if you have the chemistry and interest for 'sex'. She's not going to whip out your cock to jerk you off if she's not interested in sex with you, and if she's interested in sex with you then she's almost certain to expect the full monty.

That thing of a girl just giving a HJ is a schoolgirl thing, and done when she does NOT want to have sex, but doesn't want her friends thinking she's a loser who couldn't keep a boyfriend, so rather than lose him to someone who'll put out, she does the minimum necessary to keep him interested. But even there, there's many who would far rather have protected sex, or even anal sex, before a BJ. If the girl has any sexual hangups that sex is 'dirty' then that likelihood is high. She'll far rather put your dirty thing in her dirty place than in her mouth...

Oh, and the thing of prostitutes doing everything EXCEPT kissing, because that's intimate, is real and fairly common. The ones that allow kissing actually advertise it as an extra 'GFE - GirlFriend Experience"

 

[Alfius]

Best to say everyone has different real life experiences. Some, like you, have the wall the break down. Others, are curious creatures and so when they "discover" HJ's, BJ's, etc, they try it out like the coming of age scripts. There's so many dependents that it's always difficult to say that one way is the tried and true because there's multiple. It comes down to whether the actions and thoughts fit the scenario created as a realistic possibility and how it's developed after that.

True, no two people do things the same way and the actual progression differs immensely from person to person.

But I will say that most girls I had dealings with so far, would draw some kind of line (or multiple lines) of how far they would allow you to go until they feel comfortable enough with you to progress to the next step. It's just in general a whole lot things becomes allowable after the line has been crossed.

For instance:
If you had a good date - Chance of sex say 25%.
If she invites you up for coffee - Chance of sex 50%
If you start making out - Chance of sex 75%
If you start removing Clothes - Chance of sex 90%

If you start removing Clothes - Chance of just getting Hand job...I don't know, it never happened to me, so maybe remote? 10%

Like you said everyone differs and thing progress different with different people.​

 

[novamarauder]

I find this a really good game, in my most preferred tier together with DMD, GGGB, Melody, Where the Heart is, My Sweet Neighbors, etc. I enjoy good slice of live VN, so I do not mind the slow burn (as long as say the MC is not the unsufferable judgemental prude of A Wife and Mother).

The only aspect of the game I find off-putting and unbelievable is the excessively old looks of the MC. Internal chronology of the game explictly says he more or less graduated in 1999, and he was smart and hard-working enough to tutor other students, so he should have been born in 1980-82 and be 36-38 by 2018. Yet he looks a not so well kept fifty-something, much closer to 55-60 than 35-40.

Either he made a really bad job keeping care of himself, which seems unbelievable given his job, lifestyle, and wealth, he suffers from a mild case of progeria, or the author really bungled his looks or the game's chronology. At worst you can say he's not a big fan of regular exercise, but he still seems fairly fit for someone with a sedentary lifestyle.

His daughter is even more explictly told to be 18 (a major plot point is she came of age and was released from the orphanage only recently), and he conceived her more or less between graduation and sophomore year, so he cannot be much older than 38-40 at the very most. Admittedly his ex who is the same age looks even older, a 70ish, but she is terminally ill, so her very aged looks are justifiable by wasting disease.

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

View attachment 176942

Let. It. Go. Have an issue? Go back to the thread it belongs in.

Well, aren't they all technically in the same universe now?

Yeah, the 'progression ladder' or 'stairway to heaven' trope is generally a badly written game-pacing mechanic, rather than anything resembling life.

In life, or at least adult life, you usually have the dating and making out to see if you have the chemistry and interest for 'sex'. She's not going to whip out your cock to jerk you off if she's not interested in sex with you, and if she's interested in sex with you then she's almost certain to expect the full monty.

That thing of a girl just giving a HJ is a schoolgirl thing, and done when she does NOT want to have sex, but doesn't want her friends thinking she's a loser who couldn't keep a boyfriend, so rather than lose him to someone who'll put out, she does the minimum necessary to keep him interested. But even there, there's many who would far rather have protected sex, or even anal sex, before a BJ. If the girl has any sexual hangups that sex is 'dirty' then that likelihood is high. She'll far rather put your dirty thing in her dirty place than in her mouth...

Oh, and the thing of prostitutes doing everything EXCEPT kissing, because that's intimate, is real and fairly common. The ones that allow kissing actually advertise it as an extra 'GFE - GirlFriend Experience"

Yeah, the Stairway isn't a trope I hate with the fire of 1000 suns because it doesn't exist in any form, it's that the stairway becomes standardized in a lot of games, and because it is so easy to use as a progression gate it tends to lead to lead to a lot of same-y situations. Part of it may have to do with DmD and Big Brother being massive influences on the WEG market early on. Both of those titles went out of their way to drag out actual intercourse to an insane degree. Even ones that don't take as long often follow the same formula... especially if they are sandbox games. I don't see any evidence of the Stairway being a thing in our fate so far, but we have barely started the actual relationship yet.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

If you start removing Clothes - Chance of just getting Hand job...I don't know, it never happened to me, so maybe remote? 10%

Yeah. Sounds like someone was either smelly or covered in smegma if that happens. Suddenly insecure of the cleanliness and sanitation the person switches to just using the most easily sanitised part of their body, and a lot of hand-washing after.

 

[Benn Swagger]

Right, the movie was called "Bend it like Beckham", and was about a girl who was a fan. It wasn't called "Bend it with Beckham". I see you are in the habit of blaming your disappointment on the movie (or game) for not conforming magically to your expectation, rather than learning to make smarter expectations. Interesting.

Actually, I was arguing more on the point of good storytelling than just modelling real life. You can take storytelling to some pretty fantastic and unrealistic places that are quite unlike life as we know it (sci-fi and fantasy), but you have to still have internal logic and consistency so that the universe you create seems to have actual laws and reality.

It seems, based on your criticisms, that you prefer the shallower end of the pool, where there are worlds where an 18yr old girl has never masturbated and asks for Daddy to help teach her how. Where that same ultra-repressed girl sees Dad naked in a shower once, and he bought her an ice-cream yesterday, so suddenly she wants to screw him. Don't worry, there are plenty of games for you out there.

What I absolutely love about this game is that it isn't that stupid, shallow, unrealistic, and written like the fantasy of someone who's never got past first base at all. It's deeper, more thoughtful, and far, far more believable. Nobody is saying that you have to feel the same way. You can find a hundred games more to your tastes. But don't try to spoil one of the very, very few games there are that actually have some thought and depth in them for those of us who have so few others to choose from.

If you don't like it, play something else. Why spoil it for those who love it BECAUSE of the things you are criticising? You think cheeseburgers are fine dining after all.

JEEZUS CHRISTOS !!!
Who the fuck arguing about story quality or genre ... What I want is simple ! ... Don't put Incest Tags if there's no Incest content, even if it planned to have incest content. Capiche ?
If touching your daughter skin already called incest, then we might incest ourself in real life already.
If you still gonna talk/text long thinking me criticize the game flow, development or story plot ... stop it !

 

[UncleVT]

Calm down... Unfortunately, we don't get all we want in this sad life...
:teary:

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Who the fuck arguing about story quality or genre ...

Well, obviously me. Since you specifically quoted me to make an argument, obviously you too. Try to keep up. Also, you find that the writers and developers of a game usually care about the story and genre too.

Look, you seem very confused. Has nobody ever explained to you what a visual novel is? The story is kind of the entire point.

As I said before, if all you need in life is to get to the scenes as fast as possible, and you don't care about the story, then VNs really aren't meant for you. That's what regular porn is for. Do you need us to explain how to use pornhub?

What I want is simple !

Trust me, that doesn't surprise anyone. I have you pegged as "simple", don't doubt.

But just because something is simple doesn't make it right.

Spoiler: To spare those who find your criticisms (and thus refute of same) off-topic

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If you still gonna talk/text long thinking me criticize the game flow, development or story plot ... stop it !

Again, I think you may have misunderstood what a discussion forum is about... If you don't want a discussion, then you are in the wrong place.

 

[ltpika]

I couldn't hit unwatch thread fast enough after seeing things devolve so fast. Apologies for my part in it, bye.

 

[Benn Swagger]

If someone say ...
"If the dev planning to have Incest, even if there's not yet reach the incest content, still tagged as incest"
I will say ...
"Ah, so that the F95Zone tags rule, okay, I understand"

 

[Walg]

Well, aren't they all technically in the same universe now?

Possibly. Possibility exists in all games. Point being if you want to backhand, backhand that game only, do it in the game thread it belongs in and you don't need to repeat your backhand especially in multiple threads. It's not the first time it's happened or I wouldn't have made the comment in the first place.

 

[NukaCola]

I have a question. Can you romance the daughter in current version yet? Second, is blood related choice at the start really matter or not?

 

[RogueKnightUK]

I have a question. Can you romance the daughter in current version yet? Second, is blood related choice at the start really matter or not?

Romance, yes. You can take her dates, buy her clothes and gifts, and sweet talk her like Casanova. You just can't fuck her (yet) because the MC himself is still a bit conflicted and the daughter, raised by nuns, isn't giving any clear signs she wants it.

 

[NukaCola]

Romance, yes. You can take her dates, buy her clothes and gifts, and sweet talk her like Casanova. You just can't fuck her (yet) because the MC himself is still a bit conflicted and the daughter, raised by nuns, isn't giving any clear signs she wants it.

Thanks. But is it actual romance? with kissing and stuff or just casual date beetween father and daughter?

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Thanks. But is it actual romance? with kissing and stuff or just casual date beetween father and daughter?

So far I'm sticking with a single playthrough, as I prefer to explore the other paths after I complete one (saves my old brain forgetting which path made which choices), so I can only speak for where a pretty caring but lusty path has led me. That said, it feels to me like the relationship is at the end of the current episode, on the cusp.

Spoiler

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From the style of writing, and the suspected thought processes behind it, I rather expect the storyline to go in a pretty realistic fashion - once things start, all that pent up lust and emotion will probably lead to full sex pretty quickly. Both characters are intelligent, so unlikely to do that poor trope of pretending that a handjob isn't just as much sex, and just as much incest, as full on intercourse. Once that tipping point is reached, it'll tip fast, is my expectation.

Oh, and I think the choice over whether or not she's blood related is mostly so people can choose whether or not there's actual incest. Either way, once you invited her to live with you and took her in she's pretty much your 'ward', and thus there are still moral and legal consequences to any relationship. I don't believe either choice will cause things to go any faster or slower.

 

[Rook2099]

Don't think it taking too long so far. But if it is taking much longer for start to happen then I think many will get bored.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Possibly. Possibility exists in all games. Point being if you want to backhand, backhand that game only, do it in the game thread it belongs in and you don't need to repeat your backhand especially in multiple threads. It's not the first time it's happened or I wouldn't have made the comment in the first place.

Given that

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it is a lot more than 'possibly'. There is a relationship between them therefore, and thus a culture-reference in-joke is perfectly natural, and not entirely inappropriate. Even without that in-game connection, the comment would be a simple culture-reference to most users of the forums. No different to the way threads recently have referenced WH40k (Satellite), or the way movies get referenced, or even a reference to Beavis and Butthead.

Hey, I get you are a fan, you have the sig link and everything, but I think you're being a little too sensitive about what was clearly a joke that some others got and enjoyed. If you feel that other game needs defending, and there should be discussion about it being used as a joke, maybe have that discussion on the thread for that game?