VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[monk_56]

Love and lust never do make sense or need to. They just happen to you and you can't help but experience them. When Axel kisses her and reignites all of the familiar passions while subduing her jealous hurt (especially if they had the talk before and she stopped hating him), her hormones just tell her to fuck him and it's very hard for someone who's been in that relationship for so long to resist falling back into that lust just to once again feel safe and carefree at the same time. Logic or thoughts about other people can fly out the window. Lots of female cheating happens this way. They don't pre-plan it, but they feel so good in the moment they can't find strength to resist. Which is why if Lena lets it happen, all of her remaining Willpower just disappears. Just like that of a recovering alcoholic who once again finds themselves alone with a bottle and only a tiny sane part of their brain telling them to resist but their entire body begs them just to have one last sip.

All good and all that- but I think its dumb that getting the Axel kiss sets Lena's willpower to 0.

Like- let the player use a will-point to extract themselves or something. Is Lena seriously this spineless?

While we are on the subject of Will points- it would be nice if there were some non-sexual things Lena could spend them on; because I think I would have earned like 5 on my play-through and I spent 0.

 

[BloodyMares]

Like- let the player use a will-point to extract themselves or something. Is Lena seriously this spineless?

You can. Lena only loses all of her Will points if you don't and just let it happen.

While we are on the subject of Will points- it would be nice if there were some non-sexual things Lena could spend them on; because I think I would have earned like 5 on my play-through and I spent 0.

You can't earn more than 2 Will points at the same time. It's the limit that you have to get around by and it motivates you to spend it occasionally so you could refill it by doing certain things.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

edit: by the way, it's funny that Lena is against threesome due to her past with Axel and Cherry, but she is ok to suck dick of her friend's boyfriend (with said friend in the same room + another friend)

And to fuck her cheating Ex while she has a boyfriend, and to fuck someone else's DJ boyfriend, and to fuck her friend's boyfriend in her own room while she has the lena_loves_ian tag in her friends own room on her friend's bed.....

I really don’t get this apparent expectation that the characters need to act rational or in accordance with their own principles in every situation. Yes, a fictional character’s actions obviously shouldn’t feel random or completely out of the blue, as that’s just poor writing. But it’s also bad writing if the characters don’t have any flaws or never make the "wrong" choices when they’re given immoral alternatives. A character who helps an old lady across the road every single day: boring. A character who does it for a while but then one day suddenly decides to not help: interesting.

In a porn game one of the main conflicts will obviously be between the rational, good and considerate options, and the egotistical and instinctive ones which offer immediate satisfaction.

People have conflicting feelings. Lena can both develop feelings for Ian and secretly be drooling over his best friend’s cock which she coincidentally saw one night. That’s completely compatible. It’s not like she chose it because it’s a good idea, she just saw it and instinctively did it.

And when they’re at Ivy’s place, where Lena’s judgement is weakened by alcohol and drugs, and where Ivy sets it all up and makes it seem more harmless because it’s just a "game", she can take the unexpected chance to suck said friend’s cock. The next morning it seems like a bad idea, but most of us have done things which the next morning makes us think: "Why the hell did I do that?"

Of course it’s a question of whether it’s done convinceingly. Personally I’m not similarly convinced by the second Jeremy scene or the whole Mike path. But in the Axel scene I have no problems accepting that Lena can tell Ian she wants to be with him, but then immediately afterwards end up in Axel’s bed. First she’s thinking rationally and listening to her emotions, but then the instinctive lust for immediate pleasure defeats the rational thoughts when Axel makes his move.

And how much fun would it be if the Ian and Lena romance by default locked out all those other options? I also have an exclusive Ian and Lena playthrough among my saves, but that would have been a lot more boring if it didn’t include actively deciding not to do anything when the other options arise.

 

[PervySageKem]

Love and lust never do make sense or need to. They just happen to you and you can't help but experience them. When Axel kisses her and reignites all of the familiar passions while subduing her jealous hurt (especially if they had the talk before and she stopped hating him), her hormones just tell her to fuck him and it's very hard for someone who's been in that relationship for so long to resist falling back into that lust just to once again feel safe and carefree at the same time. Logic or thoughts about other people can fly out the window. Lots of female cheating happens this way. They don't pre-plan it, but they feel so good in the moment they can't find strength to resist. Which is why if Lena lets it happen, all of her remaining Willpower just disappears. Just like that of a recovering alcoholic who once again finds themselves alone with a bottle and only a tiny sane part of their brain telling them to resist but their entire body begs them just to have one last sip.

That's biological determinism and it has little to no basis in real life, and even trying to think of it as real is pretty dangerous reasoning.

People aren't slaves to their "hormones", at all. They can be a slave to their desires, which is 1000% different from what you said. You can't just mess with a girl and "her hormones tell her to fuck you", that's simply not real.

You can say things like: "her mindstate is pretty confused right now, seeing Axel reignited some pent-up desires and since she has low willpower and self-esteem, she went with it". Saying "her hormones made her do it" is just plain ignorant.

I hate pulling this card on the internet, becauce people never believe it at face value, but I'm a practicing physician (Internal Medicine), and there is no such thing as mind-control hormones...

 

[PervySageKem]

And just to clarify, all paths are valid in this game. Some make little sense, but it's a porn game so jack off to whatever you want.

The only thing I ask that could be interesting was make as much dumb/random content as expected content. Robert having more scenes then anyone else when he's just a drop-in character to make Ian look better is weird and dumb.

 

[monk_56]

And how much fun would it be if the Ian and Lena romance by default locked out all those other options? I also have an exclusive Ian and Lena playthrough among my saves, but that would have been a lot more boring if it didn’t include actively deciding not to do anything when the other options arise.

The fun part is subjective. For you- it sounds like it would be less fun. For me- it would be equally fun; I derive negative enjoyment from those sorts of routes. In fact, I'd enjoy the game more if Jeremy / Mike weren't in the game at all- they just annoy me.

You can. Lena only loses all of her Will points if you don't and just let it happen.

You can't earn more than 2 Will points at the same time. It's the limit that you have to get around by and it motivates you to spend it occasionally so you could refill it by doing certain things.

Axel Kiss) What I mean is that you should be able to extract yourself after the kiss. Pedantic I suppose- but still another exit point would make more sense than will=0 and auto sex on a kiss- assuming you have a spine.

Will points) Maybe you cannot have more than 2 will points on Ian stashed up but I definitely have 3 non-cheated will points on Lena at the end of a play-through.

Irregardless of point caps, my view was that that it would be cool if there were more ways to spend them to help Lena out in non-sexual situations. Currently Lena can only spend them when dealing with Robert, Axel, Jeremy, and Seymour. All in sexual situations.

Ian has some times he spends will points in sexual situations but you can also spend it to do things like; ask your father for more Money, deliver your book idea to Seymore personally, fess up to Wade about Cindy going to a photo-shoot, and devote more time to training / writing your book / reading Holly's book / working a second job.

 

[Daken9]

That's biological determinism and it has little to no basis in real life, and even trying to think of it as real is pretty dangerous reasoning.

People aren't slaves to their "hormones", at all. They can be a slave to their desires, which is 1000% different from what you said. You can't just mess with a girl and "her hormones tell her to fuck you", that's simply not real.

You can say things like: "her mindstate is pretty confused right now, seeing Axel reignited some pent-up desires and since she has low willpower and self-esteem, she went with it". Saying "her hormones made her do it" is just plain ignorant.

I hate pulling this card on the internet, becauce people never believe it at face value, but I'm a practicing physician (Internal Medicine), and there is no such thing as mind-control hormones...

No better time to pull it, to be honest. Not to make this bigger than it is, but reasoning like that tends to encourage a kind of dissociation and removal of agency from oneself and one's actions that really serves no one.

It's also just kind of weird - not to say somewhat sexist - that anyone would believe a person's brain can be overridden just like that by musk and a pair of pecs. Like, if that's how it works we all might as well go full-on on the 2d girls, 'cause preventing a 3d one from cucking us would downright be too much work.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Robert having more scenes then anyone else when he's just a drop-in character to make Ian look better is weird and dumb.

I think most players agree that Robert’s had more scenes than necessary. But I also think they add something to Lena’s character development: At the beginning Robert’s the one trying to take advantage of Lena. But gradually their relationship changes, and by chapter 9 it’s rather Lena who’s using him, while Robert’s obviously got feelings for her.

Either way I think the latest chapter hinted that there will be fewer Robert scenes from now on. Ian on the other hand is likely to have scenes with Lena in all or most of the remaining chapters.

The fun part is subjective. For you- it sounds like it would be less fun. For me- it would be equally fun; I derive negative enjoyment from those sorts of routes. In fact, I'd enjoy the game more if Jeremy / Mike weren't in the game at all- they just annoy me.

Sure, it’s subjective, but if the simple existence of the paths you don’t like affects the overall experience so negatively, it sounds like you’re bound to be disappointed? Like all similar games it’s got a wide range of routes to cover many different kinks — and to make sure it actually feels like we’re deciding the paths of the characters — and without that it would barely be considered a game. If you dislike one or several characters it obviously affects the replayability, but apart from that I don’t understand why anyone would feel so strong about the routes that are hidden behind alternatives they either way aren’t interested in choosing.

 

[CoalPhelps]

That's biological determinism and it has little to no basis in real life, and even trying to think of it as real is pretty dangerous reasoning.

It cannot be denied that genetic determinism plays a significant role. Not in decision making, but in predispositions and the ceiling of the development of possibilities. "A man can do anything" is nothing more than a pleasant phrase from entertainers.

 

[ename144]

About Jess and Ivy. Actually more like Jess is Cindy, Ian and... Perry! Wait, don't throw tomatoes.

Although Jess was a possible guide for Ashley into the world of corruption and she had advices similar to Ivy, however, unlike the latter, she was still not a dark sociopath, weaving a network of intrigues that were not immediately clear. Ivy has clear goals and plans, and she achieves them in such anti-social ways. Jess was just a lost person who lost herself in glamor, fame and entertainment due to a conflict of interest with her parents. She had a creative spirit and creative passion, but she could not and no longer wanted to realize them because of this conflict. And also she had no real friends, only gigolos like Jack. And so friendship with Ash can help her get back to what she originally wanted, as she gets what she was deprived of.

In Ivy, there is nothing like that, she enjoys what she does, as it is completely her decision. She knows how to use her sexuality and depravity to her advantage. And she enjoys corrupting others like Lena and Holly. And she does this with specific goals, as another tool for her own promotion. When Jess pushes Ash onto her path, she does it without much malice, just out of inertia, as she lives like that herself.

This is the big difference between them.

It's not a bad analogy. Cindy is effectively Jessica from an earlier point in her arc, before she lost out on Dave and became a jaded party girl. All the more reason to keep Axel off her; if only it didn't require jumping through so many hoops.

'Depraved'? LOL, for a bunch of people who spend their time fapping to porn pixels you sure are a bunch of judgmental MFers.

So if I don't fap to these games I'm allowed to call Ivy depraved? Good to know!

You know what would be hilarious? If Lena agreed to the threesome that everyone is constantly asking for, only to have Ian realize at the last minute that she was talking about an MMF.

I'd be fine with that if the game had a second male character that wasn't an asshole. Maybe it's an opportunity for the new Stan content?

 

[DavDR]

So if I don't fap to these games

If

 

[BloodyMares]

They can be a slave to their desires, which is 1000% different from what you said.

I accept, that English is not my first language so I might use certain terms with not accurate meaning. But what is the source of desire if not chemical reaction in your body responding to an outside stimuli with previous positive association with that stimuli?
Whether it's hormones or something else you would know better.

That said, her chemical reaction is just the initial response that has nothing to do with her conscious decision-making. She can resist her desire and act "sober", or she can go with the flow and seek immediate satisfaction.

No better time to pull it, to be honest. Not to make this bigger than it is, but reasoning like that tends to encourage a kind of dissociation and removal of agency from oneself and one's actions that really serves no one.

It doesn't remove agency. It's just another factor that affects your decision-making. The choice that would normally be very easy for you (without temptations), suddenly becomes quite hard because you need to have great willpower to override your biology and resist said temptations to act according to your morals. Some people's morals or willpower are so strong that any desire immediately becomes a non-factor, but the opposite is also true for other people and any such decision turns into a struggle (porn addiction / hypersexuality). Everyone is still making a choice, but driven by different reasons.

Axel Kiss) What I mean is that you should be able to extract yourself after the kiss. Pedantic I suppose- but still another exit point would make more sense than will=0 and auto sex on a kiss- assuming you have a spine.

Yes, I meant after the kiss because he kisses Lena anyway. You have a choice, to stop the kiss and push him away (that extraction you're talking about) or kissing him back which telegraphs your intention to proceed. Make up your mind on what you want from Lena. You want her to stop Axel or you want to make out with him knowing full well where it would lead? Your actions determine Lena's choice. If you choose to kiss him back, then it means Lena enjoys Axel's attention and wants more.

It's basically the same choice that was with Holly for Ian. You can either stop the kiss and tell her why you don't want to proceed, or you can respond to the kiss and end up having sex with her.

 

[PervySageKem]

I accept, that English is not my first language so I might use certain terms with not accurate meaning. But what is the source of desire if not chemical reaction in your body responding to an outside stimuli with previous positive association with that stimuli?
Whether it's hormones or something else you would know better.

That said, her chemical reaction is just the initial response that has nothing to do with her conscious decision-making. She can resist her desire and act "sober", or she can go with the flow and seek immediate satisfaction.


It doesn't remove agency. It's just another factor that affects your decision-making. The choice that would normally be very easy for you (without temptations), suddenly becomes quite hard because you need to have great willpower to override your biology and resist said temptations to act according to your morals. Some people's morals or willpower are so strong that any desire immediately becomes a non-factor, but the opposite is also true for other people and any such decision turns into a struggle (porn addiction / hypersexuality). Everyone is still making a choice, but driven by different reasons.


Yes, I meant after the kiss because he kisses Lena anyway. You have a choice, to stop the kiss and push him away (that extraction you're talking about) or kissing him back which telegraphs your intention to proceed. Make up your mind on what you want from Lena. You want her to stop Axel or you want to make out with him knowing full well where it would lead? Your actions determine Lena's choice. If you choose to kiss him back, then it means Lena enjoys Axel's attention and wants more.

It's basically the same choice that was with Holly for Ian. You can either stop the kiss and tell her why you don't want to proceed, or you can respond to the kiss and end up having sex with her.

I get what you mean, I know you didn't mean it in the worst way. It's just what you said is a dangerous rationale that we must not let be perpetuated. It's an argument that is usually associated with "if she came, it wasn't rape", and it's usually used as an attempt to remove agency and blame from peoples actions. I know you meant neither of these things, I'm just saying it was language that we must be careful with.

I'm sure you can say for your own experience in real life, it's never your chemicals that decide what you do. Women aren't different in that regard.

When you really like a girl and you already have a girlfriend, it's not your chemicals that makes the decision to cheat on her or not. It's your willpower and something usually called "irrational rationality", a type of thinking and logical processing that occurs so fast that we don't even associate it with thinking.

It happens all the time. Things we think about in the past, our past experiences and our "brain molding" creates a sort of "algorithm", if you will (not really that, but the term is pretty close). If in the past you had modelled your brain to accept cheating, if you had already modelled this event in your mind and imagined it, you might make a decision that was entirely yours but "irrational" in the moment. You might go for a kiss in a situation you shouldn't.

It doesn't mean you are blameless and your "body made you do it". It was all your head, your logic, your thoughts that made the decision, you just made it long before the situation ever occured.

All this to say: even if the subslave Lena route is hot, I'm pretty sure hate and a new love interest would have overwritten her attraction to Axel. Besides: she already has scenes with Ian where she can be very submissive and he can be pretty dominante with her and with other characters, she doesn't need Axel for anything.

It cannot be denied that genetic determinism plays a significant role. Not in decision making, but in predispositions and the ceiling of the development of possibilities. "A man can do anything" is nothing more than a pleasant phrase from entertainers.

Genetic determinism is different, I wasn't really addressing that aspect. I was more talking about "my body made me do it", so we both agree with each other since you also say it doesn't affect decision making.

The brain is really weird and there are a lot of stuff circling around that has no empyrical data behind it.

 

[PervySageKem]

No better time to pull it, to be honest. Not to make this bigger than it is, but reasoning like that tends to encourage a kind of dissociation and removal of agency from oneself and one's actions that really serves no one.

It's also just kind of weird - not to say somewhat sexist - that anyone would believe a person's brain can be overridden just like that by musk and a pair of pecs. Like, if that's how it works we all might as well go full-on on the 2d girls, 'cause preventing a 3d one from cucking us would downright be too much work.

Absolutely true, we are 100% responsible for our own decisions. Great take.

 

[CoalPhelps]

It's not a bad analogy. Cindy is effectively Jessica from an earlier point in her arc, before she lost out on Dave and became a jaded party girl. All the more reason to keep Axel off her; if only it didn't require jumping through so many hoops.

I completely agree. I really hope that there will be an opportunity not only to cockblocking him, but also to bypass Mr. Aryan Assdiger.

 

[CoalPhelps]

Genetic determinism is different, I wasn't really addressing that aspect. I was more talking about "my body made me do it", so we both agree with each other since you also say it doesn't affect decision making.

The brain is really weird and there are a lot of stuff circling around that has no empyrical data behind it.

Of course, decisions are always made by us and the blame for them cannot be shifted to anything. But because of these oddities of the brain, completely unexpected factors and feelings can interfere with these decisions.

 

[CoalPhelps]

Anyway, for some reason, all my favorite developers here had some problems and difficulties with new updates at the same time. Therefore, I am glad that there are discussions — they allow you to brighten up the time for waiting.

 

[PervySageKem]

Anyway, for some reason, all my favorite developers here had some problems and difficulties with new updates at the same time. Therefore, I am glad that there are discussions — they allow you to brighten up the time for waiting.

Yeah, same for me. Good thing there are discussions so people can talk about these things and find new VNs to try out.

 

[BloodyMares]

All this to say: even if the subslave Lena route is hot, I'm pretty sure hate and a new love interest would have overwritten her attraction to Axel. Besides: she already has scenes with Ian where she can be very submissive and he can be pretty dominante with her and with other characters, she doesn't need Axel for anything.

Hate in Lena, while default, is not everlasting. If she meets with Axel in the cafe to talk, and they part ways in a civil manner, she stops hating him. Doesn't forgive him for cheating or anything, but isn't triggered by his presence anymore and is open to talk with him or even work with him once again. Nothing of that is possible if Lena hates Axel (relationship < 3). And while Ian can be dominant during sex, his sweet personality makes her think differently about Ian. Axel made Lena feel like she belonged to him, and she liked it. To be HIS and nobody else's. That made her feel safe and carefree, like a little girl in her father's arms. She could truly let go, and feel no shame in anything he made her do. That's a very powerful bond and requires years of being together to nurture that trust. With Ian it's nowhere near that level (yet) and that's why Axel has such an advantage at this stage in their lives and can so easily push all the right buttons when they're alone and cause Lena to bask in those familiar feelings and take advantage of those.

 

[dolfe67]

All this to say: even if the subslave Lena route is hot, I'm pretty sure hate and a new love interest would have overwritten her attraction to Axel. Besides: she already has scenes with Ian where she can be very submissive and he can be pretty dominante with her and with other characters, she doesn't need Axel for anything.

Have you got a problem that there is a choice? If you don't like that she fall for Axel again, just choose for her to refuse the kiss, it's that simple. But don't want for everyone else to think like you