Samuel Hidayat

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2019
1,807
2,408
SerHawkes has some weird obsession/hate for Jeremy, it's not even funny to see it anymore.

Anyway, I don't think the characters are the issue; some people, like you pointed out, want to see Jeremy be the BBC fetish and Axel being the dominant male. It's what the game is about. If you don't want for Jeremy to be the guy who fucks your girlfriends then just don't play the game that way.

It's a multip-choice, multi-path game; literally the whole point of the game is the freedom of choices.
One genuine criticism I have for ORS and GGGB is that the dialogues can be pretty stiff and bland at times. There are moments when I play them and keep thinking "EK could've paraphrase this," "Character X wouldn't talk like that," "Word X would've fitted this situation better than Word F," etc.

I thought EK hiring a better wordsmith and rewriting tons of dialogues caused the long delay, and I couldn't be more wrong.
 
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Oliver Wendell Homely

Active Member
May 9, 2020
623
2,292
Lets see: A set of antagonists that aren't all that thrilling and bland. You have Seymour, who wants to control Lena and make her a sex slave. How is that interesting? You have Axel, who is also obsessed with Lena and can't take a fucking hint and is apparently involved every fucking where. Do we really need Axel to be at a gay bar next? Jeremy is just a BBC kink and has no depth to him at all whatsoeer. Stan is... Stan. And yet the revolving drama each chapter is: Will Lena be able to afford anything while slutting it up or not? Will Ian not get cucked and become the writer he wants to be? Will Stan die in a fiery crash and be replaced?

And sure, I'm bitter and jaded as fuck about Ivy-Ian, yet the writer in me screams 'Eva could do better'. Less kink/fetish crap, more character building. Make Jeremy a decent guy instead of being the Tyrone-lite and wanna be player. Add some depth and delve into characters and their relationships such as Jeremy and Louise and have Lena try to mediate that rathr than gloss over it and reward Jeremy over and over again without little to no punishment.
I like my porn to be on the high-brow side, too, dude, but it's too early to make the judgements you're making. I imagine if your in-game choices put Ian and Lena together on a "pure love" path and then have Lena fuck Jeremy and others, there will be "punishment," or what I prefer to call consequences. Same for Ian and Cindy, etc. But if those consequences come too early in the story, their effects are weakened.

Re the characters, they all are slightly stereotypical, but I don't find any of it unrealistic. Jeremy is a young guy with a big dick. Even if he was a really good guy, it's really hard to turn down super hot pussy when it throws itself at you. I mean, really hard. Axel, meanwhile, is a narcissist and playboy. Part of him genuinely loves Lena, but he's addicted to the game and he clearly has a dom fetish. His behavior is classic abuser. Stan comes off as a bit incel in the latest update, but his frustration is understandable. He's a decent, but very socially awkward, guy living with two hotties, one of whom treats him like shit and the other walks around half naked, lets him photograph her doing kinky shit, and maybe even invites him to jack off on her. If then she later acts like she's not interested in him romantically, he is colossally confused, because in his naive way, he sees sexual attraction and love as inseparable.
 

SerHawkes

Engaged Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,061
14,196
One genuine criticism I have for ORS and GGGB is that the dialogues can be pretty stiff and bland at times. There are moments when I play them and keep thinking "EK could've paraphrase this," "Character X wouldn't talk like that," "Word X would've fitted this situation better than Word F," etc.

I thought the long delay was caused she hired a better wordsmith and had to rewrite tons of dialogues, and I couldn't be more wrong.
Agree that. Dialouge could be better in spots, among other things naturally. But apparently criticing that is frowned on a porn thread, so I've learned from certain simpletons here. Funny that.

Now to write a diatribe on how Ivy is best girl...
 

Joshy92

Devoted Member
Mar 25, 2021
8,816
19,013
If we do get a Lena cucking Ian path which i really hope we do i hope we get choices and it's not just really extreme
For example my Ian would totally watch Lena have sex with another dude but i don't want to eat a creampie or wear a cage lol
I like loving cuckold stuff not extreme cuck stuff.
 

SerHawkes

Engaged Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,061
14,196
If we do get a Lena cucking Ian path which i really hope we do i hope we get choices and it's not just really extreme
For example my Ian would totally watch Lena have sex with another dude but i don't want to eat a creampie or wear a cage lol
I like loving cuckold stuff not extreme cuck stuff.
You already do in a fashion.
 
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SerHawkes

Engaged Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,061
14,196
I'm sorry but that's literally that jjj you serious meme.

You seem to have very optimistic idea of what constitutes as average for story in porn games.
What can I say, I like well written stories in porn games that interest me and have some actual sense of a story.
 

ffive

Forum Fanatic
Jun 19, 2022
5,128
11,126
What can I say, I like well written stories in porn games that interest me and have some actual sense of a story.
Sure, i think everyone prefers good than bad, when given choice. But if you truly feel one of better executed porn games is "average or below average" compared to its competitors, then i can only envy you, because it seems you've only experienced the cream of the crop, or managed to successfully block memories of anything that wasn't.
 

SerHawkes

Engaged Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,061
14,196
Sure, i think everyone prefers good than bad, when given choice. But if you truly feel one of better executed porn games is "average or below average" compared to its competitors, then i can only envy you, because it seems you've only experienced the cream of the crop, or managed to successfully block memories of anything that wasn't.
I would say I'm picky. Half the games here, while visually stunning, or have content I am interested, I don't play because either the story uninterests me or the characters are poorly crafted, or their is a literal fuckton of typos... -shivers-.

For ORS, I'm semi interested, mainly in having Ivy get her due with Ian... And some small interest in Lena-Holly blooming, while naturally cucking Jeremy from Ivy in any manner.
 

manscout

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2018
1,198
1,877
But apparently criticing that is frowned on a porn thread, so I've learned from certain simpletons here.
Or, and I'm just throwing a wild thought here, people just disagree with your criticism, or at the very least find it overblown because of your harsh choice of words.

I think your criticism of the characters doesn't make much sense for the kind of story ORS is trying to tell, changing Jeremy to be "nicer" or Seymour and Axel to be more "complex and interesting" (which I don't find them to be particularly lacking there either, I feel any significant increase on their complexity would border on subverting their roles as clear villains) would do nothing for the story of ORS. You could make interesting characters that fit your ideas and build a different story around them, but at that point you're just making a different type of game from the games Eva Kiss wants to make (her appeal has always been the sheer quantity of choices and ways different scenarios can mesh, which, to be workable at the scale of her games, requires relatively predictable characters).

I don't have much of an opinion on the quality of the dialogue in ORS, but I feel that's more of a technical element and good criticism of it needs to be able to point out specific, or at the very least recurring, flaws in Eva's writing. Not vague stuff like "it could be better".

Just try to not take disagreement as a reason to get combative and call people simps, you can feel strongly about things that other people do not, but it does not make your taste more refined than theirs and neither does it make you some kind of free-thinking literary genius.
 

Doppelgang

Member
Jul 5, 2022
149
839
Agreed. Eva's no poet and no award-winning writer by a long shot. But we're talking games here. Not just games. Porn games. My butt poops out better dialogue and more stimulating narrative than 95% of games on this site. Eva's writing: Good enough, considering the competition. (TBF, my butt has won a Poohlitzer).
This sums it up well (and congrats to your butt on the Poohlitzer). It's good enough, which in itself sets it apart from almost every other similar game. The same applies for the other skills needed to make a game like this: create some kind of art; have the ability to also write scenes that are sexy; some basic coding; more administrative tasks like delegating smaller jobs, setting up platforms to distribute the game, communicating with the followers. It's a weird mix of skills, and most people are probably shit at one or more of them (I definitely am), but I'd say Eva is somewhere between decent and good at most or all. Some characters are a bit one dimensional, some illustrations look less good than others, some paths are less well structured than others. But overall the result is still good (and compared to the average of other porn games, I'd say exceptional).
 

John Doe Jr.

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2017
1,137
2,248
If we do get a Lena cucking Ian path which i really hope we do i hope we get choices and it's not just really extreme
For example my Ian would totally watch Lena have sex with another dude but i don't want to eat a creampie or wear a cage lol
I like loving cuckold stuff not extreme cuck stuff.
An option would be nice. Though I can also understand if she cuts certain corners for the route and forces us into something once we've already decided on the cuck route just for the sake of time and making less work for herself. Though ig an easier way would be for only one or 2 scenes having the option to do something a little more extreme or not do it. At least you don't have to worry about any sissification or gay stuff in that route bc I doubt Eva would go there
 

John Doe Jr.

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2017
1,137
2,248
changing Jeremy to be "nicer" or Seymour and Axel to be more "complex and interesting"
I feel like I've played a different game if these are peoples complaints. I have a route where Jeremy is a total bro. Not mean at all. And Seymour and Axel, despite obviously being villains, are interesting enough for me. Especially in the (sadly deleted) scene where Axel and Ian were quite friendly at the bar. Also, in most games like this Seymour would've been totally different. You all know the type of character trope I'm talking about. But he's not. All things considered you wouldn't even know he was a bad guy at first glance
 

manscout

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2018
1,198
1,877
I feel like I've played a different game if these are peoples complaints. I have a route where Jeremy is a total bro. Not mean at all. And Seymour and Axel, despite obviously being villains, are interesting enough for me. Especially in the (sadly deleted) scene where Axel and Ian were quite friendly at the bar. Also, in most games like this Seymour would've been totally different. You all know the type of character trope I'm talking about. But he's not. All things considered you wouldn't even know he was a bad guy at first glance
I was mostly responding to the suggestions Hawkes had made.

Jeremy no matter what is still a bit of a dick in the way he handles things with Louise, otherwise I feel it pretty much takes conscious effort by the player to make him an antagonist/rival of any kind. But either way I think the criticism is more at the lack of character growth. Regardless of how things pan out Jeremy still behaves mostly the same way and learns nothing from his (potential) mistakes. Like I said I think that's just a restriction of the type of games Eva makes, but it is not like it is unrealistic for people to take a long time to really change their ways either. And even then I don't know if I agree that is the case, the shittiest thing Jeremy can do to the protagonists is sleeping with Lena even while knowing Ian had feelings for her, and that only happens in the scenario where Lena didn't warn Louise and didn't get her to break up with Jeremy, which is a scenario where he mostly gets "rewarded" for the "sly" way he handles things with Louise, so why exactly would anyone expect him to be "learning" something from it?

I think Axel and Seymour are good characters with an interesting presentation. The only real criticism I have seen leveraged at them is that ultimately their motives are rather simple and impersonal. Seymour just wants to use his wealth and influence to take advantage of and manipulate people he takes an interest on (in this case Lena), and Axel is just an egomaniac who knows he messed up things with Lena but thinks rules shouldn't apply to him because he believes he is above "normal" people. I have seen people making theories in the past to try to give more personal meaning to the motivations of the villains (i.e people theorizing Seymour is Lena's biological father). While I do think coming up with that kind of stuff is fun, I don't think it is necessary to explain Seymour and Axel's characters, some people really just are obsessive assholes who go above and beyond in messing up with other people for extremely petty reasons. There is a good quote in this regard:

"The souls of emperors and cobblers are cast in the same mold…The same reason that makes us wrangle with a neighbor creates a war betwixt princes."
 

ffive

Forum Fanatic
Jun 19, 2022
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Regardless of how things pan out Jeremy still behaves mostly the same way and learns nothing from his (potential) mistakes.
I don't think Jeremy even sees anything that potentially happens as a mistake -- getting freed of a psycho "girlfriend" is probably a blessing for him, if anything.
 

SerHawkes

Engaged Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,061
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I don't think Jeremy even sees anything that potentially happens as a mistake -- getting freed of a psycho "girlfriend" is probably a blessing for him, if anything.
A girlfriend who put out and was more than willing to put out no less. Just wanted time spent with her. Too much to ask? Not really.
 
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ffive

Forum Fanatic
Jun 19, 2022
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A girlfriend who put out and was more than willing to put out no less. Just wanted time spent with her. Too much to ask? Not really.
Let's not suddenly pretend Louise isn't overly possessive, jealous and driven by wild mood swings just so we can dunk on Jeremy some more. We can get a very good sample of what being in relationship with her is like with Lena.
 
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