VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[Glooskabe]

The Robert reaction is interesting to me. Good-looking, takes care of himself, has a good job, likes Lena.

Arguably he's a better relationship prospect than Ian, who doesn't even have a real job, is about to get fired from his internship for insubordination, and is trying to fuck 3-4 other women.

Robert:
-really seems to have nothing in common with Lena
-tries to use his position as Lena's supervisor to extort sex from her
-tries to use the fact that Axel punched him to guilt Lena into dating/having sex with him
-since he is otherwise not connected to the games at-large social group, we have no idea who else he might be trying to get with
-isn't really able to satisfy Lena sexually unless she takes charge of the situation (My direct knowledge of this assertion is from skimming the scripts and comments here. Due to the sheer number of scenes available, perhaps he gets his shit together in this area eventually.)

Ian:
-has an awful lot in common with Lena (art, music, life situation, Holly )
-progresses his relationship with her respectfully, without tricks, extortion or guilt
-has no problem satisfying Lena (even though there's only 1 scene which some might not even get if they decide to make a more balanced skill approach for Lena)
-may be trying to get with other women if player chooses, but doesn't have to be. (Personally, I chose to sleep with Allison once in my playthrough but probably won't pursue her further because of equal parts 1) seems she's gonna sleep with both Ian and Jeremy unless you build your entire life around her and she doesn't even want a relationship supposedly 2) the relationship with Lena is heating up/getting more serious. I've had a flirty relationship with Cindy, but have pretty consistently encouraged her to work on her relationship with Wade. I'll admit to having naughty designs on Holly, but I hope to include Lena in that so it don't count! )

Sorry, I'm not seeing the relative merits of these two tipping in Robert's favor in the finding Lena a good boyfriend route. Now if you are talking the depraved slut route, that's a horse of a different color!

 

[BloodyMares]

The Robert reaction is interesting to me. Good-looking, takes care of himself, has a good job, likes Lena.

Also has 0 personality and is an absolute tool. Yeah, what a catch.

 

[aifgamer]

Also has 0 personality and is an absolute tool. Yeah, what a catch.

Ha, well obviously he's intentionally written to be unlikable.

What I find interesting is how effective EK's writing is at making people dislike a character who's not really that offensive. I think a lot of his actions are somewhat defensible and would come off differently if you were seeing things from his perspective instead of Lena's.

Ian:
-may be trying to get with other women if player chooses, but doesn't have to be. (Personally, I chose to sleep with Allison once in my playthrough but probably won't pursue her further because of equal parts 1) seems she's gonna sleep with both Ian and Jeremy unless you build your entire life around her and she doesn't even want a relationship supposedly 2) the relationship with Lena is heating up/getting more serious. I've had a flirty relationship with Cindy, but have pretty consistently encouraged her to work on her relationship with Wade. I'll admit to having naughty designs on Holly, but I hope to include Lena in that so it don't count! )

So your Ian is only trying to fuck two other women besides his "serious" relationship interest in Lena. What a guy, haha.

This is kind of what I find interesting about this game, actually. When actions come from your POV, it's very easy to explain them and make excuses for them. Whereas we never play from Robert's POV so his actions come off as selfish.

People don't like Robert because he leans on Lena a little to get what he wants. But Ian leans on Holly's interest in him when he is asking for help with his work. Lena can lean on Stan and her coffee shop boss in a similar way.

Is Robert really a bad guy, or in the words of Jessica Rabbit, is he just drawn that way?

 

[Deleted member 563623]

The Robert reaction is interesting to me. Good-looking, takes care of himself, has a good job, likes Lena.

Arguably he's a better relationship prospect than Ian, who doesn't even have a real job, is about to get fired from his internship for insubordination, and is trying to fuck 3-4 other women.

Ian's only like that if that's how you play him. My dude's out for Lena alone, working hard on his book which is set up to be passed onto one of the most influential people in the city, and is biting his tongue to succeed at the magazine.

Career wise Robert isn't much better off than Ian at all and it's clear he likely won't ever be without a great deal of maturing. He's just coasting through life and he sees everything and every day simply as a means to satisfy his own selfish desires, which are partying and getting off. That in and of itself is not the worst thing in the world, and if it works for him then it works for him. But in that case, he's already peaked. And a number of his specific actions put him into major douchebag territory. In terms of 'relationship prospects', that's pretty damn barren.

I think he's a fine character in the story tho, and a perfect match for a more slutty and sexual Lena, as a sex friend. He serves that role well and it makes for some great scenes.

 

[ZagorTeNay]

At this time, i'm not a fan of this game.
I like GGGB : the best adult ame ever.
The routes in ORS are already too much complex.
EK does a hard job, but i think she has chosen the bad way :
shes prefers create a game with a complex structure, as a challenge, instead of create a game for... the pleasure !

Nothing wrong with having more options. There is already enough characters, hope it just doesn't go overboard with adding more ( Love, Sex&Second Base). Maybe bring back Ian's ex, though, that would be interesting. Also some character development with Ian: make it big as a novelist, builds some confidence, etc. I usually go for male characters, but Lena so far is better realized.

So your Ian is only trying to fuck two other women besides his "serious" relationship interest in Lena. What a guy, haha.

This is kind of what I find interesting about this game, actually. When actions come from your POV, it's very easy to explain them and make excuses for them. Whereas we never play from Robert's POV so his actions come off as selfish.

People don't like Robert because he leans on Lena a little to get what he wants. But Ian leans on Holly's interest in him when he is asking for help with his work. Lena can lean on Stan and her coffee shop boss in a similar way.

Is Robert really a bad guy, or in the words of Jessica Rabbit, is he just drawn that way?

Axel is obvious asshole, but at least seems interesting ( in how he manipulates people, some interesting history with her). Robert is Hahaha, I will bang you so hard babe! ( kind of reminds me of that pirate idiot/GoT Season Eight). Probably more A temporary step in whatever direction Lena goes on lust path.

 

[Glooskabe]

So your Ian is only trying to fuck two other women besides his "serious" relationship interest in Lena. What a guy, haha.

Ian meets Lena on Wednesday. He has the opportunity to sleep with Allison on Friday. He has ZERO interactions with Lena in those two days. He met her. He likes her, but he has no reason to think there is any relationship building there. My choice to have him sleep wih Allison in that circumstance is blameless on that front. Due to developments in the story which I referred to, I don't intend for Ian to sleep with Allison again. As for Holly, Ian's not trying to sleep with her at the moment. He's developing a friendship with her, and he's realized he finds her attractive, but that's it. Therefore, "my" Ian isn't trying to sleep with anybody else while he's building his relationship with Lena. I, as the player, am hoping that a throuple develops among Ian, Lena & Holly, but Ian hasn't considered that possibility yet as far as we know. (Lena on the other hand...)

People don't like Robert because he leans on Lena a little to get what he wants. But Ian leans on Holly's interest in him when he is asking for help with his work. Lena can lean on Stan and her coffee shop boss in a similar way.

No, the shit that Robert pulled on Lena is morally reprehensible, objectively. Comparing workplace sexual harassment and emotional manipulation to Ian asking Holly for writing tips is ludicrous.

 

[aifgamer]

Ian's only like that if that's how you play him. My dude's out for Lena alone, working hard on his book which is set up to be passed onto one of the most influential people in the city, and is biting his tongue to succeed at the magazine.

Career wise Robert isn't much better off than Ian at all and it's clear he likely won't ever be without a great deal of maturing.

That's true, though this is a BIG shift in behavior. At the point you enter his POV, he's basically a loser. He's a 27-year-old intern, pining over a relationship that ended a year prior.

According to the background text, Robert is the head waiter at one of the most prestigious restaurants in the city. In a decently-sized city, that can be a six-figure US$ job. Definitely not in a similar career stage as Ian.

 

[anony66]

According to the background text, Robert is the head waiter at one of the most prestigious restaurants in the city. In a decently-sized city, that can be a six-figure US$ job. Definitely not in a similar career stage as Ian.

Dude, according to Google the average salary for a head waiter in the US is 25k$ a year. That is far below the average income. Even if a super luxury restaurant would pay DOUBLE (which I HIGHLY doubt), that's still below average (and far from six figures). Careerwise, Robert has a job. Not a good one, just a job. Which is, by the way, completely irrelevant, because wtf has a job to do with a relationship? He could be as rich as Jeff Bezos, and he would still only be a creepy sexual predator.

 

[aifgamer]

Dude, according to Google the average salary for a head waiter in the US is 25k$ a year. That is far below the average income. Even if a super luxury restaurant would pay DOUBLE (which I HIGHLY doubt), that's still below average (and far from six figures). Careerwise, Robert has a job. Not a good one, just a job. Which is, by the way, completely irrelevant, because wtf has a job to do with a relationship? He could be as rich as Jeff Bezos, and he would still only be a creepy sexual predator.

Heh, it's pretty funny how aggressive you are about this information that you learned from 2.5 seconds of Googling.

I mean, not only are you wrong, but you're so angry and assured about it. Take a few minutes and research some more, I promise you'll learn something.

 

[Glooskabe]

Dude, according to Google the average salary for a head waiter in the US is 25k$ a year. That is far below the average income. Even if a super luxury restaurant would pay DOUBLE (which I HIGHLY doubt), that's still below average (and far from six figures). Careerwise, Robert has a job. Not a good one, just a job. Which is, by the way, completely irrelevant, because wtf has a job to do with a relationship? He could be as rich as Jeff Bezos, and he would still only be a creepy sexual predator.

He's talking about a very high-end restaurant in an upscale market. Think, maybe, Daniel or Le Bernardin in NYC. The head waiter in one of those places may be approaching 6 figures.

Your other comments stand though.

 

[anony66]

Heh, it's pretty funny how aggressive you are about this information that you learned from 2.5 seconds of Googling.

I mean, not only are you wrong, but you're so angry and assured about it. Take a few minutes and research some more, I promise you'll learn something.

Where was I aggressive? Are you alright in the head? And by the way, just saying "you're wrong" won't change by opinion, and probably the one of nobody. Little tip since you seem to have skipped school: You need to give arguments with sources if you want to argue. Since you did not do that, I presume you are just plain wrong. And such a condescending attitude from somone who thinks a head waiter is a good job, that's some grade A entertainment.

 

[anony66]

He's talking about a very high-end restaurant in an upscale market. Think, maybe, Daniel or Le Bernardin in NYC. The head waiter in one of those places may be approaching 6 figures.

Your other comments stand though.

And "very high-end" pay four times the average? Do you happen to have a source for that, because I would find that very interesting.

 

[doctor13]

It's not set in the US though, right? My understanding is that service position such as this in the US typically pay less due to the tip culture topping it up.

 

[Reaurt]

He's talking about a very high-end restaurant in an upscale market. Think, maybe, Daniel or Le Bernardin in NYC. The head waiter in one of those places may be approaching 6 figures.

Your other comments stand though.

Even then, we don't know if the restaurant is -that- upscale or affluent, else why would they try to shed staff? Also, Lena has to work other jobs in order to get by on her waitress salary, would the head waiter be paid so much more than a regular waiter? That said, Robert is probably better off career-wise at the moment for sure, but as others have said, there's a lot more that goes into a relationship than a comfortable career.

Robert definitely is being written as a flat, uninteresting person, and that's not even considering the whole manipulation thing. Because of that, I can see Robert being appealing for players into certain types of roleplay / sexual situations, leading Lena down that path, if they're not treating Robert as a quick fuck.

 

[JoeSte91]

I guess it's an issue of not having enough guys at her disposal (or in general). The only guys she interacts with regularly are Stan, Ian, and Robert, with Robert being the lamest choice possible and Stan is just a neighbor. I guess there's potential for Axel, but for now, it's distant. Everybody else is either just an acquaintance or her boss. There's definitely a lack of good-looking male friends, while Ian hangs out with Holly, Alison, Emma, Cindy, and Cherry.

You should add Jeremy to that list. He's in the Axel column in that it's more of a potential hook up, but I'll be quite surprised if he's not an option very soon.

 

[Reaurt]

For a while I had thought the guys were generally worse than the girls in this game, but perhaps I'm just being overly judgmental. It's easier for me to dismiss the flawed character traits of the women because I want them to take off their cartoon clothes. This dynamic is certainly less at play when it comes to the men. Maybe the women are just as awful.

... nah. The men suck.

 

[aifgamer]

And "very high-end" pay four times the average? Do you happen to have a source for that, because I would find that very interesting.

Sheesh. Here you go:

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[CassieBare]

And "very high-end" pay four times the average? Do you happen to have a source for that, because I would find that very interesting.

As a person who was in the industry with many friends in it as well (NYC), I worked in Tier 2 (casual fine-dining) and would make 60k easy, and if I wanted to work a more 'standard' 40 hours, I would have made 70k. My friends who work at those top tier, La Bernadin, Blue Hill, etc -- 6 figures, absolutely.

 

[aifgamer]

Also, Lena has to work other jobs in order to get by on her waitress salary

She might not get many shifts and/or she's just not a very good waitress. We see some evidence of the latter -- she is frequently distracted and she doesn't like the job very much. Or it could just be a discrepancy in the writing.

Robert definitely is being written as a flat, uninteresting person, and that's not even considering the whole manipulation thing. Because of that, I can see Robert being appealing for players into certain types of roleplay / sexual situations, leading Lena down that path, if they're not treating Robert as a quick fuck.

His role is as an option for the Lena who wants some male attention, but is afraid of getting into something deeper where she can get her feelings hurt again. This is pretty much spelled out in one of the conversations with Ivy. Depending on how you play it out, Lena can be seen as the one who's using him.

I think one of the great and true-to-life things about EK's writing, going back to GGGB, is how it takes into account that nearly all relationships are transactional in some way, and really explores (in a sexy way) why people get into the relationships they do.

 

[a-pollo]

I found appealing how the topic shifted to Robert judging him as a charachter based on the income

I guess EK is developing a charachter useful along the road to open a path of voyeurism/bimbofication of some sort.
And don't forget how in GGGB she turned the table making the backstory of Jessica more meaningful with many layers on each chapter. I mean: even Doug had his role crossing paths with others characters as for the cuckold storyline.