VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[kavaman]

The 25k average is probably the base salary of waiters not including tips. I had a roommate in college for awhile who worked part time in a decent middle class restaurant, and he made about 45k per year just working like 30-35 hours per week. I went on to become a full time software developer with a degree in CS, and it took me a few years before I was making more money (not a lot more) than my former roommate was making who just worked part time as a waiter. He wasn't even ambitious about it nor did he have any culinary degree. Now that was quite along time ago and inflation factors in a lot when considering current salaries.

That being said, I dislike the Robert character, and I only played through his content so that I could see the sexy Lena content.

 

[Cabot]

One thing I find interesting about the job thing is that, if you take a hard look at it, both Ian and Lena don’t seem to be especially “good” workers at their current jobs. Of course this can be intensified by the player’s choices, but even by default, let’s see:

• If someone working for me pull a stunt like the one Ian did with the reviews they will more than probably be fired on the spot. On the other hand I want to think, scratch that I’m sure of it, I don’t behave with people working under me like Minerva does, so yeah, she’s an horrible boss…. Which imo doesn’t exactly excuse Ian’s maneuver. But even forgetting that, the fact remains that he is clearly uninterested in his job, has issues following commands, and has a too high opinion of his capabilities that doesn’t correlate with what he has achieved for now. He’s at a stagnant point of his career both as a reviewer and a starting writer (Holly for example is not only more successful but also there are hints that she can be more talented).

• Lena looks like a harder worker girl -two jobs, plus the modelling gigs, plus the song writing- but she’s also clearly uninspired and uninterested by her waitressing job, gets easily distracted (the bj scene was both hot and unprofessional as fuck, and btw having to skip her shift because her ex appeared at her job is also quite unprofessional), gets tempted to steal from the drawer and can even go through with it, and beyond her good looks and possible artistic talent doesn’t seem to have any remarkable professional or academicals skills.

I think this is, at least in part, a conscious design choice made by Eva: these are both FLAWED characters at a point of crisis in their lives (financially, romantically, both kind of strained from their parents, etc.)… Which imho makes them and their stories more engaging and fun to follow. They are nice and interesting enough people to keep us invested in them, but their flaws make their mistakes believable and their problems and struggles can keep the story evolving in interesting ways for quite long. If they were Superman and Wonder Woman things could get boring really fast…

 

[dundun]

One thing I find interesting about the job thing is that, if you take a hard look at it, both Ian and Lena don’t seem to be especially “good” workers at their current jobs.

One thing I find remarkable about the job thing is that, three years ago, EvaKiss was caught in a job she despised. Then she got this change to live off her writing (and, oddly enough, her porn habit). She finally could follow her passion. Note, how both Ian and Lena at several occations get into rants about how you should follow your passion.
Well, I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[Cabot]

One thing I find remarkable about the job thing is that, three years ago, EvaKiss was caught in a job she despised. Then she got this change to live off her writing (and, oddly enough, her porn habit). She finally could follow her passion. Note, how both Ian and Lena at several occations get into rants about how you should follow your passion.
Well, I don't think that's a coincidence.

Yes of course that isn't precisely a coincidence! Nonetheless I find it wise not to confound too much the writer and her characters, this is a work of fiction not an autobiography after all

And yes, it's clear that both Ian and Lena kinda despise their current jobs or at least don't see them as their "true calling", but that doesn't invalidate my point of not being very good at them meanwhile...

 

[bosp]

One thing I find interesting about the job thing is that, if you take a hard look at it, both Ian and Lena don’t seem to be especially “good” workers at their current jobs. Of course this can be intensified by the player’s choices, but even by default, let’s see:

• If someone working for me pull a stunt like the one Ian did with the reviews they will more than probably be fired on the spot. On the other hand I want to think, scratch that I’m sure of it, I don’t behave with people working under me like Minerva does, so yeah, she’s an horrible boss…. Which imo doesn’t exactly excuse Ian’s maneuver. But even forgetting that, the fact remains that he is clearly uninterested in his job, has issues following commands, and has a too high opinion of his capabilities that doesn’t correlate with what he has achieved for now. He’s at a stagnant point of his career both as a reviewer and a starting writer (Holly for example is not only more successful but also there are hints that she can be more talented).

• Lena looks like a harder worker girl -two jobs, plus the modelling gigs, plus the song writing- but she’s also clearly uninspired and uninterested by her waitressing job, gets easily distracted (the bj scene was both hot and unprofessional as fuck, and btw having to skip her shift because her ex appeared at her job is also quite unprofessional), gets tempted to steal from the drawer and can even go through with it, and beyond her good looks and possible artistic talent doesn’t seem to have any remarkable professional or academicals skills.

I think this is, at least in part, a conscious design choice made by Eva: these are both FLAWED characters at a point of crisis in their lives (financially, romantically, both kind of strained from their parents, etc.)… Which imho makes them and their stories more engaging and fun to follow. They are nice and interesting enough people to keep us invested in them, but their flaws make their mistakes believable and their problems and struggles can keep the story evolving in interesting ways for quite long. If they were Superman and Wonder Woman things could get boring really fast…

Oh, I think your assessment might be a bit off.

Ian is portrayed as clever and witty - he is mistreated by his boss at every turn although he tries to write at least modestly favorable reviews about shitty teen novels he is handed to review.
It's a tough job to write something positive when you can clearly see the books are utter trash but he still does it, in spite of his better judgment, to satisfy his boss. Minerva is clearly negatively biased towards him - his reviews are good and he is good at his job as everyone else can see it. Pulling a switch was an act of desperation to prove he has been mistreated.
At one point in my life, I was running a literary magazine as a CEO and editor in chief (almost 10 years) and I valued my people and never had any reason to mistreat them as Minerva does so I can understand his frustration - we all functioned like a well-oiled machine thanks to my friendly and understanding attitude towards all of them. All people are different and in a creative world all are individuals with their good and bad characteristics - the mission of a good boss is to bring the good ones out of them and put them to work.

Lena is a hard and dedicated worker and since she is a woman - the Axel episode shook her badly, it's understandable why she reacted as she did.
On the other hand, she can be bad as you, as a player, make her be.
She can keep the relation with Robert strictly professional and do good work - it's your choice if you want to corrupt her and turn her into a sucking whore.

In the end - yes, its Eva's conscious design choice to let you influence the actions of the chars you are playing and make them turn out what you want them to be. Isn't that the point of the game?

 

[Cabot]

In the end - yes, its Eva's conscious design choice to let you influence the actions of the chars you are playing and make them turn out what you want them to be. Isn't that the point of the game?

Of course it is, and I'm all for that. That wasn't my point.

Regarding Minerva I agree with you (even said so myself): she's a terrible boss. Even more so in a creative environment. But personally I don't think that fully excuses Ian's behavior; but forgetting that, the thing is Ian doesn't looks like having accomplished much -or extracting much joy from- in his work as a reviewer, and as a writer… Well, neither at the moment. Holly for example is more successful, looks much more focused, and taken in consideration some in-game instances (the proposed changes to Lena’s lyrics if not “gamey” optimal, for example) could probably be more talented.

I’m not sure of understanding your point about Lena: what matters if she is a women or not in order to judge her work? If she were to be a man, skipping his shift because *gasp* his ex-gf showed at work would then be (more) unprofessional? I don’t think so, it ought to be the same for both genders. She also skipped another shift in order to attend a modeling gig at her other job, and got tempted to steal from the drawer when she learned she was being laid off. And all of that happens without the player’s input, it’s Lena by default…

Look, I’m not saying she’s an awful worker, just not a superb one either. More than probably, as we’re discussing, because -as Ian- she is not really interested in her current jobs (and yay! for us, because surely erotic photoshoots are much more interesting to look at than she serving tables or washing dishes, heh).

As someone said before when it’s the MC actions (witnessed from the player’s POV) we’re talking about it’s easier to explain and make excuses for them, but if it were to be for example Wade or Allison the ones who displayed them, what would we think about it?

 

[bosp]

But personally I don't think that fully excuses Ian's behavior; but forgetting that, the thing is Ian doesn't looks like having accomplished much -or extracting much joy from- in his work as a reviewer, and as a writer… Well, neither at the moment. Holly for example is more successful, looks much more focused, and taken in consideration some in-game instances (the proposed changes to Lena’s lyrics if not “gamey” optimal, for example) could probably be more talented.

Being a young aspiring artist (at least as Eva positioned him in the story) is not very rewarding. Of course, he is unsatisfied with his position in life and circumstances he found himself in, who wouldn't be?
For a truly creative person, there is not much joy in being forced to go against your principles and I can fully understand him but his livelihood depends on the meager salary he is receiving from his internship so he eats as much shit he can until he decides its enough (or not - depends how you play that char - you can decide not to pull the switch).

I’m not sure of understanding your point about Lena: what matters if she is a women or not in order to judge her work? If she were to be a man, skipping his shift because *gasp* his ex-gf showed at work would then be (more) unprofessional?

If you know anything about women, you know that they inherently tend to show their emotions differently than men and I said her reaction to the Axel incident is understandable. Does her reaction make her a bad worker? I don't think so - it just shows she is very emotional and has a hard time coping with it. From her superior's side of view, it should be better for her to go and calm down than have an emotionally shaken waitress working with the customers. Its a decision any clever boss would have made at least that's what I would do if I was her boss.

She also skipped another shift in order to attend a modeling gig at her other job, and got tempted to steal from the drawer when she learned she was being laid off. And all of that happens without the player’s input, it’s Lena by default…

You are wrong here - it's entirely dependent on the player's decision. She needs money badly because of her family's situation and she can truthfully ask Ed or lie to him - your choice. Tempted to steal - your decision, you can decide what will she do.

 

[bosp]

Sorry forgot to address the Holly point.

Holly for example is more successful, looks much more focused, and taken in consideration some in-game instances (the proposed changes to Lena’s lyrics if not “gamey” optimal, for example) could probably be more talented.

Holly is a successful young writer who already published a few books. We know nothing more about her.
Is she really more focused or talented then Ian or Minerva unfounded praises of her work makes us believe she is?
For now, we know nothing about what kind of writer Ian is - it will probably be shown as the story develops and, based on our choices as the player, he could prove to be far better than Holly.
Changes to Lenas lyrics happen only if you (player) chose the wrong ones, I didn't in my playthrough and that dialogue never came up.

 

[anony66]

As a person who was in the industry with many friends in it as well (NYC), I worked in Tier 2 (casual fine-dining) and would make 60k easy, and if I wanted to work a more 'standard' 40 hours, I would have made 70k. My friends who work at those top tier, La Bernadin, Blue Hill, etc -- 6 figures, absolutely.

Interesting. How much of that comes from tips, if I may ask?

 

[aifgamer]

If someone working for me pull a stunt like the one Ian did with the reviews they will more than probably be fired on the spot.

Oh yeah, Ian is clearly terrible at his job. The first review he turns is passive-aggressive, and Minerva calls him out on it. He's also shown to be contemptuous of the "chores" of answering emails and other office-oriented tasks -- which is what most people regard as "work."

That's even before he writes the "honest" review, which should have gotten him fired for insubordination. Contrary to prevailing opinion, Minerva seems to be a VERY patient boss!

 

[popple]

"Nothing wrong with having more options. There is already enough characters, hope it just doesn't go overboard with adding more ( Love, Sex&Second Base). Maybe bring back Ian's ex, though, that would be interesting. Also some character development with Ian: make it big as a novelist, builds some confidence, etc. I usually go for male characters, but Lena so far is better realized."

I agree : that's why i said "at this time". EK made a presentation of the characters, and we expect their interactions will be really interesting. But i still think she could do it with less complication, less criterias...
But i will follow the progress of ORS.
I still believe in EKs talent !

 

[bosp]

Minerva seems to be a VERY patient boss!

Guess it takes one hearthless bastard to know another.
Can't say that I blame you - you are a clear byproduct of today's sick corporate culture where only ruthless, selfish and greedy are deemed worthy to be on top.

However, most of today's richest people on this planet read and understood Dale Carnegie's "bible": How to Win Friends & Influence People.
I suggest you give it a try, you might learn something new.

 

[Creeping Death]

You must be registered to see the links

Character design (Ed and Molly van Dyke)

When creating the story for ORS I realized that it was important to populate the world with all kind of characters to make the main character's environment feel rich and believable. I was aware of this fact working in GGGB already, but this time I knew not all characters had to be there just to provide a sexual fetish for the players.

Lena and Ian spend a lot of time in their work places and have families, just like most of us do. Those couldn't be simply presented as backgrounds, they had to have life added to them. And I would've liked to introduce more background characters to flesh this out, add another co-worker for Lena at the restaurant (she's mentioned at one point, her name's Samantha) and maybe other colleagues for Ian at the magazine or even at the gym. But my time and resources are limited and sometimes I have to prioritize which characters I will create graphical assets for and write appearances and interactions for, or I run the risk of stretching too thin and making the flow of the story and plot lines too cluttered.

This was the case when I came up with the Van Dykes, the lovely couple who run the café Lena works at. But same as with Robert, once you introduce these "background" characters you realize the potential they have (that's another reason why I try to be measured when introducing characters, because I end up wanting to develop sexy plot lines for them too). In this case, and considering how much people liked Arthur's character in GGGB, I saw in Ed good potential to introduce a somewhat morally questionable relationship with an older man for Lena. It's been already hinted at in the game, and I hope I can develop it satisfyingly, but right now I feel it can't be one of the main focus of the story, even though I have several ideas for it that I like. I want to flesh it out, but I can't let that take too much time off the other plot lines and characters, (there's a ton already!).

We'll see how that ends up paying out as development progresses, but what do you guys think about Molly and specifically Ed? Let me know in the comments!

 

[doctor13]

Molly is not long for this world. Wonder how Lena will express her sympathies...

 

[aifgamer]

Guess it takes one hearthless bastard to know another.
Can't say that I blame you - you are a clear byproduct of today's sick corporate culture where only ruthless, selfish and greedy are deemed worthy to be on top.

However, most of today's richest people on this planet read and understood Dale Carnegie's "bible": How to Win Friends & Influence People.
I suggest you give it a try, you might learn something new.

You're attacking me with multiple ad hominems for an opinion on the Internet about a fictional character in a NSFW game.

Maybe you should re-read some of those chapters?

 

[bosp]

You're attacking me with multiple ad hominems for an opinion on the Internet about a fictional character in a NSFW game.

Maybe you should re-read some of those chapters?

I am sorry if you found my observation offending, it was not my intention and I sincerely apologize.
And you are right too about this not being a place for having this kind of conversation about a fictional character in a VN, guess I got carried away a bit. Sorry, everyone.

 

[lcvargas]

View attachment 734039 View attachment 734041

You must be registered to see the links

Character design (Ed and Molly van Dyke)

When creating the story for ORS I realized that it was important to populate the world with all kind of characters to make the main character's environment feel rich and believable. I was aware of this fact working in GGGB already, but this time I knew not all characters had to be there just to provide a sexual fetish for the players.

Lena and Ian spend a lot of time in their work places and have families, just like most of us do. Those couldn't be simply presented as backgrounds, they had to have life added to them. And I would've liked to introduce more background characters to flesh this out, add another co-worker for Lena at the restaurant (she's mentioned at one point, her name's Samantha) and maybe other colleagues for Ian at the magazine or even at the gym. But my time and resources are limited and sometimes I have to prioritize which characters I will create graphical assets for and write appearances and interactions for, or I run the risk of stretching too thin and making the flow of the story and plot lines too cluttered.

This was the case when I came up with the Van Dykes, the lovely couple who run the café Lena works at. But same as with Robert, once you introduce these "background" characters you realize the potential they have (that's another reason why I try to be measured when introducing characters, because I end up wanting to develop sexy plot lines for them too). In this case, and considering how much people liked Arthur's character in GGGB, I saw in Ed good potential to introduce a somewhat morally questionable relationship with an older man for Lena. It's been already hinted at in the game, and I hope I can develop it satisfyingly, but right now I feel it can't be one of the main focus of the story, even though I have several ideas for it that I like. I want to flesh it out, but I can't let that take too much time off the other plot lines and characters, (there's a ton already!).

We'll see how that ends up paying out as development progresses, but what do you guys think about Molly and specifically Ed? Let me know in the comments!

I like Ed. Good to know Evakiss is planning a route for him. I always go for the older/mature gentlemen. Seymour is my first, then Ed if Evakiss does make a route for him. There's a lot of suggestion on Patreon that I think are good for a potential storyline with him and Lena.

 

[Tshaw17]

I like Ed. Good to know Evakiss is planning a route for him. I always go for the older/mature gentlemen. Seymour is my first, then Ed if Evakiss does make a route for him. There's a lot of suggestion on Patreon that I think are good for a potential storyline with him and Lena.

I totally agree. Ed and Molly are really interesting characters. For now I only see them as good friends for Lena. But I'm sure we will have choices to make in future chapters. I also went with Seymour (photoshoot and all...looks like he can open lots of doors for both Lena and Ian)

 

[qwertycoltan]

glad to hear she is planning to introduce more characters, seemed weird to me that robert and holly were the only coworkers lena and ian interacted with

 

[Mormont]

So I finally got round to playing this thanks to SpikeZg for the recommendation. I felt the more I played the better the story as I've really enjoyed it so far it's certainly off to a good start. The whole Ian and Lena situation have been fun they seem to have to overcome the odds, Ian, with his boss and in my playthrough at least Lena losing not one but two jobs is a tough situation.

I would, however, like to see less of Axel and Jeremy but I guess we are stuck with them for a bit for story reasons needless to say I wasn't impressed with Jeremy and Alison but thankfully we had a Lena and Holly (she's very cute) date so I think that was the better outcome.