manscout

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2018
1,204
1,889



GGGB vs ORS: Structure

GGGB and ORS follow a very similar structure, but have a couple key differences.

One that’s plain to see is the fact that having only one playable character in GGGB forced me to make Ashley one of the participants in almost every sex scene. I also noticed having a female MC caused the majority of the NPCs to be guys, even though Ash could have a few lesbian relationships with her friends. Having Ian and Lena as playable characters doesn’t only mean I can have way more variety when combining characters for hot and original sex scenes, but also allowed me to introduce more female NPCs in the cast, and I really love those new characters! (Holly, Alison, Cindy, Cherry, Emma...) But the major structural key element for both games lies in their status quo (yeah, I’m gonna use that word a lot from now on).

As I said before, with GGGB I wanted to push choice mechanics and branching possibilities to the extreme, to the point where it’s almost ridiculous (the thug route, for example). The fun was the exploration of how widely paths could vary, and you could end up with a very different status quo depending on your choices, affecting not only Ash but the surrounding characters. The downside to this kind of structure, other than the previously mentioned lack of profundity on its themes, was the lack of said status quo. Things could vary so much that the overall structure lost consistency and became an amalgam of “what if” scenarios, without a defined or conducting plotline.

This problem is intrinsic to all choice-based and open-ended games and stories, I think, and ORS faces the same conundrum. After all, if the story is set in stone, there’s no room for the player to make meaningful choices, and that’s what this is all about! But I wanted ORS to have a more solid structure and a better defined status quo that could serve as a frame for me as a writer and the player. That meant narrowing the possible outcomes, meaning, Ian and Lena’s possible permutations are more focused. Don’t get this wrong, this doesn’t mean there are less permutations than in GGGB: the difference lies in how the choices affect that status quo. While in GGGB your choices created different, varied and somewhat unconnected status quo, with ORS my goal is making your choices affect a single, deeply interconnected status quo. This is what I refer to when I talk about making a more focused and nuanced gaming experience. Hopefully this way your choices as both Ian and Lena will be even more meaningful, having a deeper impact on their environment and personal relationships, where connexions are more clear and explicit and well structured.

What do you think, you prefer the more wide-and-shallowstructure of GGGB or is ORS’s narrow-and-deepstructure gripping you more into the story?
In line with what I have said previously, I do think wide-and-shallow makes for a more fun VN gameplay experience, I think it is possible for a very good narrow-and-deep story to beat that but, and this is a personal preference, to me it needs to be an epic story. While I think the characterization in ORS is very good, the fact that the plot is centered around the conflict of individuals and measured ambitions limits my enjoyment of it to mostly just amusement, and if the main goal is fun then wide-and-shallow does it better for me.

None of that stops me from really enjoying ORS, of course. The only concern I have with regards of the status quo being fixed that could actually reduce my enjoyment would be if it led to too much drama in the story. The existence of a solid status quo (and so, of a canon), implies an inherent resistance from the narrative elements to decisions that would deviate from it, not saying the game would block you from deviating from the canon, but the impact from doing so would be felt more, with the player being teased for undoing what was "meant to be". GGGB not having a "meant to be" meant that it could very cleanly break away from the original status quo without being nagged by the story for doing so, which I appreciated because it meant I could enjoy the alternate stories without constantly being dragged back to "think of what could have been if you stayed true to the canon, you monster".

Alternatively, even if someone actively wants to stick to the canon, there can always be the issue of 11th hour drama, where, despite having taken a lot of the correct decisions, the player missed something, or went too far in one of the side-stories, and that negatively impacts the canon ending, that's some real VN frustration right there. My point here is that I appreciated just how drama-free some of the GGGB routes ended up being, staying true to Eric or lezzing up with Eva, for instance. Maybe it was a side-effects of those status quo being more shallow, but I appreciated that in those routes you could just enjoy the last half of the game with little drama or chance of fucking it up. My concern is that if in ORS the canon route ends up being centered around "good" Ian and "good" Lena, that it may lead to the inclusion of way too many "last second disasters" just for the sake of drama, even if otherwise it would make sense for such a route to be safe and wholesome at that point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baka! and Tallyhoe

BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,460
7,021
I think I prefer the narrow but deep approach, because no matter which route you pick, you're going to have quite a bit of content all around. In the shallow-wide example, there's always an issue where a certain path is preferred by the dev (or is most requested by patrons), and so it gets more content than the others. That discourages players from playing differently, and it serves to enforce a "canon" playthrough, but via gameplay rather than story, because nobody wants to play a game in such a way that gives you less content. It was an issue in GGGB, where bad Ash has MUCH more content available to her than the good Ash does. And eventually, it reaches the point where you're basically playing a kinetic novel with little to no interactivity, because all the content was made for another route, and you're just clicking through the dialogue to advance time until you reach another rare event that is available for you...
If ORS was to be the same way, if you, say, want to remain single (or save yourself for that one character that isn't available yet), then some days are just going to be skipped over, and out of 1 week, you'll have 1 or 2 playable days of content in comparison to a route where you're whoring both Ian and Lena out.
 

Storm1985

Member
Nov 8, 2019
310
592
Some players love other characters, but this game is about Ian and Lena. Every sex scenes will be with one or both of them. ;)
 

Oxymoron98

Newbie
Sep 22, 2018
43
43
I think I prefer the narrow but deep approach, because no matter which route you pick, you're going to have quite a bit of content all around. In the shallow-wide example, there's always an issue where a certain path is preferred by the dev (or is most requested by patrons), and so it gets more content than the others. That discourages players from playing differently, and it serves to enforce a "canon" playthrough, but via gameplay rather than story, because nobody wants to play a game in such a way that gives you less content. It was an issue in GGGB, where bad Ash has MUCH more content available to her than the good Ash does. And eventually, it reaches the point where you're basically playing a kinetic novel with little to no interactivity, because all the content was made for another route, and you're just clicking through the dialogue to advance time until you reach another rare event that is available for you...
If ORS was to be the same way, if you, say, want to remain single (or save yourself for that one character that isn't available yet), then some days are just going to be skipped over, and out of 1 week, you'll have 1 or 2 playable days of content in comparison to a route where you're whoring both Ian and Lena out.
Yeah I agree with you said pretty much. I prefer the narrow but deep approach as well. The choices seem to serve a purpose not necessarily to the story but to the characterization. It feels lived in. Whereas in the shallow-wide example, it feels almost like a hunt instead.
 

Baka!

Member
Jul 25, 2017
193
385
Some players love other characters, but this game is about Ian and Lena. Every sex scenes will be with one or both of them. ;)
I don't think that is true at all, yes, it is true that most sex scenes will be with them but I am convinced that there will be sex scenes without them as well and voyeur scenes if the player makes some choices (maybe also cuck scenes but it is too soon to tell, in GGGB there were also some sex scenes where Ashley wasn't involved), for example, Axel will probably have sex with Cindy if Ian doesn't cockblock him, Lena can spy on Louis and Jeremy while they have sex, Ian can see photos of Alison with Jeremy's cock
 

LostBR

Active Member
Sep 21, 2018
986
2,171
I don't think that is true at all, yes, it is true that most sex scenes will be with them but I am convinced that there will be sex scenes without them as well and voyeur scenes if the player makes some choices (maybe also cuck scenes but it is too soon to tell, in GGGB there were also some sex scenes where Ashley wasn't involved), for example, Axel will probably have sex with Cindy if Ian doesn't cockblock him, Lena can spy on Louis and Jeremy while they have sex, Ian can see photos of Alison with Jeremy's cock
Nice user name
 

Journey95

Active Member
Jun 23, 2018
865
1,678
I'll take what I can get. But I hope her story gets released soon xD
Same, Cindy is the hottest girl and has more appeal than the others (not counting Lena) imho. Hopefully Ian can progress things with her more in this upcoming update
 

Journey95

Active Member
Jun 23, 2018
865
1,678
I think I prefer the narrow but deep approach, because no matter which route you pick, you're going to have quite a bit of content all around. In the shallow-wide example, there's always an issue where a certain path is preferred by the dev (or is most requested by patrons), and so it gets more content than the others. That discourages players from playing differently, and it serves to enforce a "canon" playthrough, but via gameplay rather than story, because nobody wants to play a game in such a way that gives you less content. It was an issue in GGGB, where bad Ash has MUCH more content available to her than the good Ash does. And eventually, it reaches the point where you're basically playing a kinetic novel with little to no interactivity, because all the content was made for another route, and you're just clicking through the dialogue to advance time until you reach another rare event that is available for you...
If ORS was to be the same way, if you, say, want to remain single (or save yourself for that one character that isn't available yet), then some days are just going to be skipped over, and out of 1 week, you'll have 1 or 2 playable days of content in comparison to a route where you're whoring both Ian and Lena out.
I agree, GGGB was great but definitely seemed a bit unfocused at times since there were just so many options. I think having a better balance here would be good and lead to better characters as well
 

Skylar Reign

Creating Katie's Diary.
Game Developer
Sep 28, 2018
91
200
Let's reign in the negativity lads, dude got grilled. The new update maybe anyday now. Also wanted to say that if Eva ever created a poll for favourite female character, Cindy would give Lena a run for her money. (That's what I'm gathering from this thread atleast)
 

John Doe Jr.

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2017
1,153
2,272
Let's reign in the negativity lads, dude got grilled. The new update maybe anyday now. Also wanted to say that if Eva ever created a poll for favourite female character, Cindy would give Lena a run for her money. (That's what I'm gathering from this thread atleast)
It seems like Cindy is def in most people's top 3, mine included.
 

Creeping Death

dies in loneliness
Donor
Jan 28, 2018
2,307
15,477
Let's reign in the negativity lads, dude got grilled. The new update maybe anyday now. Also wanted to say that if Eva ever created a poll for favourite female character, Cindy would give Lena a run for her money. (That's what I'm gathering from this thread atleast)
Oh?! I like Lena much more than Cindy. Cindy gives me a bitchy, snooty impression. But I have to admit that since her photo shooting I like her more, she even moved on to the 2nd place behind Lena (Allison is now on 3rd). But Lena is just extra-ordinary yummy (oh when I think of her photo shooting with the black lingerie, rrrrrrrr). :love:
 

Cicica

Member
Jan 5, 2018
409
559
Oh?! I like Lena much more than Cindy. Cindy gives me a bitchy, snooty impression. But I have to admit that since her photo shooting I like her more, she even moved on to the 2nd place behind Lena (Allison is now on 3rd). But Lena is just extra-ordinary yummy (oh when I think of her photo shooting with the black lingerie, rrrrrrrr). :love:
Top girls for me go Lena, obviously, because I can whore her out with everyone (hopefully), Holly, there is something about her that calls my name, maybe the innocence or naivety and third would have to go to Emma, I mean that ass is killing me, I can't refuse no booty like that. However, all the other girls are in the same honorable mention spot, since I am a gentleman:coffee:
 

Albaduldür

Active Member
Aug 8, 2020
686
1,202
Cindy is the most beautiful girl in the game
Allison is the Hottest
Holly is the cutest and the most innocent (and, to be honest, she is way more beautiful than she thinks)...so it'll be kinda hot corrupting her
Louise is the sluttiest and my cock will always be as hard as a rock when thinking about her

My Top
Allison
Louise
Cindy
Holly

Let's not forget that Alison has a pair of jugs that nobody has in the game....I would squeeze 'em and suck 'em all day long

But I'd like to see some of Cindy and Holly in the next update....and of course make Lena ride Jeremy's cock
 
Last edited:

Tierra_Azul

Member
Aug 28, 2017
190
650
Ivy is also in that converastion. I dont like her hair, but other than that she's up there with Lena and Cindy.
 

Skylar Reign

Creating Katie's Diary.
Game Developer
Sep 28, 2018
91
200
Cindy is the most beautiful girl in the game
Allison is the Hottest
Holly is the cutest and the most innocent (and, to be honest, she is way more beautiful than she thinks)...so it'll be kinda hot corrupting her
Louise is the sluttiest and my cock will always be as hard as a rock when thinking about her

My Top
Allison
Louise
Cindy
Holly

Let's not forget that Alison has a pair of jugs that nobody has in the game....I would squeeze 'em and suck 'em all day long

But I'd like to see some of Cindy and Holly in the next update....and of course make Lena ride Jeremy's cock
Damn that's harsh on Lena. I would have thought she's atleast in the top 3 for everyone. To each his own I guess. I agree on Cindy's piercing green eyes. The photo shoot had me doubting Lena not going to lie.
 
  • Red Heart
Reactions: juicycarmen

CassidyPRO

Active Member
Jul 6, 2017
961
1,440
Cindy is the most beautiful girl in the game
Allison is the Hottest
Holly is the cutest and the most innocent (and, to be honest, she is way more beautiful than she thinks)...so it'll be kinda hot corrupting her
Louise is the sluttiest and my cock will always be as hard as a rock when thinking about her

My Top
Allison
Louise
Cindy
Holly

Let's not forget that Alison has a pair of jugs that nobody has in the game....I would squeeze 'em and suck 'em all day long

But I'd like to see some of Cindy and Holly in the next update....and of course make Lena ride Jeremy's cock

NAh.. allison is not gettingg into my list... Not louise... no even close
 
4.60 star(s) 319 Votes