VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[RC-1138 Boss]

I'm a big fan of this game and GGGB but one thing that's never been explored and could make Ian a more interesting character is exploring homosexuality. A kind of criticism I have is that these games take on a sort of typical "male gaze" (I think the creator is a woman though). When it comes to the women in these games they go both ways without hesitation.

Spoiler: GGGB spoier

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Perhaps the author intends to explore this in future games and I know some people would not like it but the games always give you the options not to do stuff. (plus if you're bigoted then you probably won't like games with interracial stuff) I'm not a member of the LGBTQ+ community but I'm sure others would like the games to be more inclusive than they already are.

She already mentioned not having interest in doing it. However i do find it very amusing all the gay undertones between Ian and Jeremy.
Friends (who don't lust after each other) don't exchange dick picks and jerk off to it.

 

[Redgy]

She already mentioned not having interest in doing it. However i do find it very amusing all the gay undertones between Ian and Jeremy.
Friends (who don't lust after each other) don't exchange dick picks and jerk off to it.

Hey, just bros being bros why you gotta sexualize it like that?

 

[Olivia_V]

Writing this chapter feels like knitting a convoluted tapestry, trying to make sense of all the threads and ordering them correctly so the final picture makes sense and I'm not skipping anything. This means going over scenes a few times, realizing I forgot to add something or deciding this should go there instead of there, so that other thing can happen later and that other thing is foreshadowed, etc, etc...

Eva is about to face the acid test of her ambition. She's planted multiple branches with multiple characters, and now must find ways to continue them. I hope she makes it past this first great hurdle of many, as her story only gets more complex from here.

 

[TamaMountain]

I'm a big fan of this game and GGGB but one thing that's never been explored and could make Ian a more interesting character is exploring homosexuality. A kind of criticism I have is that these games take on a sort of typical "male gaze" (I think the creator is a woman though). When it comes to the women in these games they go both ways without hesitation.

Spoiler: GGGB spoier

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Perhaps the author intends to explore this in future games and I know some people would not like it but the games always give you the options not to do stuff. (plus if you're bigoted then you probably won't like games with interracial stuff) I'm not a member of the LGBTQ+ community but I'm sure others would like the games to be more inclusive than they already are.

I think Eva has said that she will not be doing any homosexual content for Ian in ORS. Well at least I recall someone posting about it here, I never actually saw the comment made by her.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up for any Ian related homosexual content. Just saying.

 

[BloodyMares]

I see no reason to start policing what people suggest here regardless of intent or Eva's feedback/work ethic.
Eva's community is opposed to this forum anyway so I doubt she reads what people post here.

Eva has avoided gay content so far, fine, I see no reason why people can't suggest it. I'm not a user of gay porn but Eva's format would suit its inclusion, I don't see anything wrong with making that statement and discussing the values and implementation of its potential addition. All in a sensible mood, mind you.

It would fit the less serious GGGB format (where Ash makes cuck Eric interact more closely with her boytoys for example), but the tone of ORS just requires subtlety.

Ian doesn't have an established bisexual streak or any type of curiosity in him that we know of, so I don't see how including male romance options will work for him unless the player is given the power to just retcon his sexuality which would cheapen the writing. If you write a male romance, it would have to make sense in the story and not feel gimmicky, and the only way to do it for Ian is to make a story about him coming out of his closet and questioning his sexuality (and spending a lot of Will to try things for the first time). And it would require A) some sort of catalyst that guides him on this path, and B) it would drag for the entire game and there will be no gay content until the final act where Ian actually becomes more curious and decides to go for it. It just wouldn't be fair to the audience that wants gay options. But the most important thing, Eva should want to write it in the first place. If she decides to try it out of some sort of sense of obligation, the writing will suffer. It always does when you're not really in the mood for it.

 

[BlandChili]

It would fit the less serious GGGB format (where Ash makes cuck Eric interact more closely with her boytoys for example), but the tone of ORS just requires subtlety.

Ian doesn't have an established bisexual streak or any type of curiosity in him that we know of, so I don't see how including male romance options will work for him unless the player is given the power to just retcon his sexuality which would cheapen the writing. If you write a male romance, it would have to make sense in the story and not feel gimmicky, and the only way to do it for Ian is to make a story about him coming out of his closet and questioning his sexuality (and spending a lot of Will to try things for the first time). And it would require A) some sort of catalyst that guides him on this path, and B) it would drag for the entire game and there will be no gay content until the final act where Ian actually becomes more curious and decides to go for it. It just wouldn't be fair to the audience that wants gay options. But the most important thing, Eva should want to write it in the first place. If she decides to try it out of some sort of sense of obligation, the writing will suffer. It always does when you're not really in the mood for it.

I don't think it's as complicated as you make it sound. Sure, ORS is a different product, personally I think that only really impacts the scale of its implementation. The important part is making it believable, which isn't hard to do. I'd even claim the choice-based nature of this game genre lends itself well to those sorts of developments. Ashley isn't bisexual in GGGB unless you choose to explore sex with women.

Eva should want to write it in the first place.

Which is what I've been saying too.
For that matter, I doubt anyone that would really personally like gay content in the game disagrees with this sentiment either. That still doesn't mean that the topic can't be discussed. My only protest is the suggestion that voicing the wish itself is somehow harmful to Eva's impression of the community's general interests.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Looks like old lady room

Yep. You guessed it. You finally get to rail Agnes. Saw a sneak peak and the carpet does indeed match the drapes. The Old Gray Lady's not just a paper in NY. Question of the day is if we'll get to see her in any revealing new outfits. Well.. Depends.

 

[eljam]

wen the jujitsu teacher, he's not gay? it seemed to me that if given the allusions he made to jeremy and ian, no doubt that eventually something could happen between ian and him?

 

[SharkVampire]

Since maybe we'll see a new update soon I was thinking, does the Jeremy bullshitting about bro code, and that he wouldn't sleep with someone else's girlfriend? Does he feel guilty or tries to protest in the party with Ivy and Lena?
Those who play as Lena and choose to date Ian, tell me, I'm curious.

 

[BlandChili]

Since maybe we'll see a new update soon I was thinking, does the Jeremy bullshitting about bro code, and that he wouldn't sleep with someone else's girlfriend? Does he feel guilty or tries to protest in the party with Ivy and Lena?
Those who play as Lena and choose to date Ian, tell me, I'm curious.

I don't play Ian/Lena myself, but I know some of the behaviour in this scene.
Basically, Ian will have an option to tell Jeremy that he thinks he's falling in love with Lena. If he says this and the bottle game is going so far as to have Lena interacting with Jeremy in a sexual manner, Jeremy will initially protest, saying that "she's important to my friend" or something to that degree.
Lena can at that point insist (I think going all the way may be automatic if you take Ivy's drug) and proceed with the scene. We don't know what kind of reaction is going to result from any of the characters yet, as the encounter ends soon after. I imagine it will come up in the next chapter.

 

[cognu]

It's just as BlandChili said, and when he had the option of telling Ian about it the next day at Wade's birthday party, he couldn't due to him doubting, work, or both related (Which it seems like the bro code is alright when it's easy, and when it matters is.. well, let's wait to the next opportunity and that will fix itself).

Him doubting open multiple branching points, one of them being, Ian telling Jeremy that he is falling for Lena, Jeremy and Lena situation at Ivy's place, and then Jeremy finding Ian and Cindy making what Ian told him a lie (or at least, he is not 100% committed to Lena), making Ian-Cindy-Wade situation worse than Ian-Lena-Jeremy.

I can imagine, depending on how Ian / Jeremy reacts to that aspect to one or both of them being hypocrites in certain paths.
I'm curious how Eva will manage that.
We already saw Lena cheating while being a victim of that same reason (Axel cheated on her), and Ian doing that as well, despite being implied that Gillian cheated on him. So both MC went against their initial moral compass in certain paths.

 

[BlandChili]

We already saw Lena cheating while being a victim of that same reason (Axel cheated on her), and Ian doing that as well, despite being implied that Gillian cheated on him. So both MC went against their initial moral compass in certain paths.

At least they do if they express interest in exclusivity with each other, like mentioned Ian can decide his feelings towards Lena, does Lena have a similar scene?

The Robert fight gave me the impression that Ian and Lena's relationship isn't strictly defined yet.
Seriously they need to sit down and talk on their route.

 

[cognu]

At least they do if they express interest in exclusivity with each other, like mentioned Ian can decide his feelings towards Lena, does Lena have a similar element?

The Robert fight gave me the impression that Ian and Lena's relationship isn't strictly defined yet.
Seriously they need to sit down and talk on their route.

Yes, Lena had the same choice in chapter 7 in their scene (Which if i have to say something is my favourite between them), after sex, Lena has a choice to "fall" more for him with a simple option of cuddling after the scene.

If you pick that option, and Ian is going with Holly she is quite uneasy about that though and wondering why Ian is doing that while being fooling with her, wondering how serious he is about her.

So it is possible to have one MC fall for the other at different levels (One leaning towards romance and the other being more casual) or it seems that way.

 

[knightoflisbon]

I see no reason to start policing what people suggest here regardless of intent or Eva's feedback/work ethic.
Eva's community is opposed to this forum anyway so I doubt she reads what people post here.

Eva has avoided gay content so far, fine, I see no reason why people can't suggest it. I'm not a user of gay porn but Eva's format would suit its inclusion, I don't see anything wrong with making that statement and discussing the values and implementation of its potential addition. All in a sensible mood, mind you.

I think that people dislike it when something like that is suggested, because then it would mean less of Eva's time spent towards content that applies to them. I'd rather Eva not waste brain cells on gay content, just the content I like. Obviously this is the ideal case for me, but it's all up to her.

 

[Reaurt]

I don't play Ian/Lena myself, but I know some of the behaviour in this scene.
Basically, Ian will have an option to tell Jeremy that he thinks he's falling in love with Lena. If he says this and the bottle game is going so far as to have Lena interacting with Jeremy in a sexual manner, Jeremy will initially protest, saying that "she's important to my friend" or something to that degree.
Lena can at that point insist (I think going all the way may be automatic if you take Ivy's drug) and proceed with the scene. We don't know what kind of reaction is going to result from any of the characters yet, as the encounter ends soon after. I imagine it will come up in the next chapter.

P.S. Lena insisting is not automatic if you take the drug, if I'm remembering right. There are some responses earlier in the chapter (i.e., when talking to Billy) that are automatic, but the drug starts to wear off (according to Lena, but she might be an unreliable narrator) by that point in Ivy's party. Otherwise, you're on point. Jeremy also has some obvious trepidation/guilt when talking to Ian during Ian's section following this (at Cindy/Wade's party at the club), but doesn't outright spill the beans on what happened.

 

[Clone002]

Lena can at that point insist (I think going all the way may be automatic if you take Ivy's drug) and proceed with the scene.

If I recall correctly, it requires 1 Will or 5 Charisma points...

 

[cognu]

If I recall correctly, it requires 1 Will or 5 Charisma points...

In some scenarios yes but it depends on your previous choices, if it requires will or charisma is because in that playthrough it really needs and outgoing Lena or Will because that's something that goes against her behaviour (for that specific playthrough)

P.S. Lena insisting is not automatic if you take the drug, if I'm remembering right. There are some responses earlier in the chapter (i.e., when talking to Billy) that are automatic, but the drug starts to wear off (according to Lena, but she might be an unreliable narrator) by that point in Ivy's party. Otherwise, you're on point. Jeremy also has some obvious trepidation/guilt when talking to Ian during Ian's section following this (at Cindy/Wade's party at the club), but doesn't outright spill the beans on what happened.

If Lena lena spied Jeremy and Louise, masturbated thinking about jeremy and had bbc fetish while drugged, i dont remember if the choice to reject Jeremy is available, and if it available, it requires WILL to reject him (I think that the drug option removes the WILL to reject him).

The opposite is also possible, there are scenarios where Lena outright reject to be her and it has to be Ivy who blows Jeremy.

So the prerrequisites vary depending on your previous choices, relationship and what Lena liked up until that point.

 

[BlandChili]

I think that people dislike it when something like that is suggested, because then it would mean less of Eva's time spent towards content that applies to them. I'd rather Eva not waste brain cells on gay content, just the content I like. Obviously this is the ideal case for me, but it's all up to her.

I can certainly understand that rationale, I might even feel a bit similar as I would love for Eva to devote herself to making a satisfying Holly/Lena path

Still, I mean, she's already made Robert the character with the most sex scenes in the game (maybe excluding Ian/Lena? I can't recall) a character that nobody likes
Like I said, I think the discussion is harmless even so, I think Eva could do a gay character/path but like BloodyMares said, it would probably only be really satisfying if Eva herself was 100% behind it, it shouldn't come about just because of public pressure.

 

[Reaurt]

In some scenarios yes but it depends on your previous choices, if it requires will or charisma is because in that playthrough it really needs and outgoing Lena or Will because that's something that goes against her behaviour (for that specific playthrough)



If Lena lena spied Jeremy and Louise, masturbated thinking about jeremy and had bbc fetish while drugged, i dont remember if the choice to reject Jeremy is available, and if it available, it requires WILL to reject him (I think that the drug option removes the WILL to reject him).

The opposite is also possible, there are scenarios where Lena outright reject to be her and it has to be Ivy who blows Jeremy.

So the prerrequisites vary depending on your previous choices, relationship and what Lena liked up until that point.

Good points. I took a look at BloodyMares' walkthrough. According to that, the drug doesn't really have any impact on decision-making at that point in Ivy's party. But you're right that if Lena is into BBC, it will cost a will point to turn down the opportunity with Jeremy. You're also right that if Lena only had 1 Will point during Chapter 7 and used it to take the drug, she wouldn't have any left over to reject Jeremy. However, Lena has a potential max 4 Will to start chapter seven, so I think it's possible to take the drug and still reject that scene if you have some Will left over.

 

[BlandChili]

Good points. I took a look at BloodyMares' walkthrough. According to that, the drug doesn't really have any impact on decision-making at that point in Ivy's party. But you're right that if Lena is into BBC, it will cost a will point to turn down the opportunity with Jeremy. You're also right that if Lena only had 1 Will point during Chapter 7 and used it to take the drug, she wouldn't have any left over to reject Jeremy. However, Lena has a potential max 4 Will to start chapter seven, so I think it's possible to take the drug and still reject that scene if you have some Will left over.

Playing to get Lena/Holly exclusivity means that I always have a million will at the end of ch. 7.

Accidental nun playthroughs be like that.