VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[BlandChili]

Ian and Lena make a good couple, but after that last update... man... Holly is such a sweetheart.

If you pray to the goddess, Lena and Ian may get to share Holly.

 

[BloodyMares]

Absolutely and this is especially enunciated when it comes to individual developers, it can feel very - almost perverse - to include other people in your work. I knew this games developer from Norway back in the day who had made enough money from releasing through steam greenlight to live, but she absolutely refused to include other people in her work, even when she could have benefited from hiring a music composer for example.

I want to thank you for this comment because it was a reality check for me. Even though I only do bug-testing and occasional proofreading, I admit that pointing out plot holes is very tempting as well. From there, it's a slippery slope into "I think writing it a bit differently would improve the scene" until you find yourself playing narrative advisor and thinking you could do better. On one hand, you want to improve the end product. On another, you're kinda affecting the game and possibly getting in the way of Eva's original creative idea. And while the critique might improve the quality, it might also disrupt the work process (additions to the original plan, prolonging development time, possible rewrites, general second-guessing). I guess it's important to let go and leave the game be as it is, even if it's not perfect.

 

[xgrotesc]

I want to thank you for this comment because it was a reality check for me. Even though I only do bug-testing and occasional proofreading, I admit that pointing out plot holes is very tempting as well. From there, it's a slippery slope into "I think writing it a bit differently would improve the scene" until you find yourself playing narrative advisor and thinking you could do better. On one hand, you want to improve the end product. On another, you're kinda affecting the game and possibly getting in the way of Eva's original creative idea. And while the critique might improve the quality, it might also disrupt the work process (additions to the original plan, prolonging development time, possible rewrites, general second-guessing). I guess it's important to let go and leave the game be as it is, even if it's not perfect.

To be honest it's a two edged sword. Everything you say it's true, but on the other hand an external feedback can sometimes give you fresh perspective on things, give you new ideas or even help you unblock your creativity on something that you were feeling stuck. Everyone's different, so it really depends on the person, or in this specific case, the creator.

And there's a difference between expressing your view on something that you might think it could work well and telling someone that their work would be better if they followed your view/advice. There's a clear line between a suggestion/feedback and trying to impose your view on others.

Fan feedback can either be great to improve the end result of a product or to help it derail it to oblivion. It takes some thick skin and a strong mentallity to be able to absorb external feedback and see where it can actually help you progress, without losing your own view and perspective. A lot of games in here that showed potential got really derailed by creators listening too much to their fans feedback and trying to please everyone, but there's also examples of those that actually improved.

With this I'm not saying that you or anybody else should or shouldn't give your feedback to Eva or any other creator, that's entirely up to you to decide upon yourself if you feel it's something you should or should not do. On the same way it is up to Eva to decide for herself what kinda of importance to herself and to her work the external feedback can bring to her game(s).

To summarize, I know I played a bit of a devil's advocate here, but I think it's often important to remember people that things are never just black and white, there's several shades of grey that need to be taken into consideration.

 

[bauman]

Doubtful. She had been releasing updates around every 3 months for the latest three chapters. More likely that we will see the alpha around the third or the fourth week of may.

Late May for the Alpha sounds about right.

05/04/2021 + 72 and counting /Chapter 8/
02/21/2021 + 81 days /Chapter 7/
12/02/2020 + 96 days /Chapter 6/
08/28/2020 + 50 days /Chapter 5/
07/09/2020 + 38 days /Chapter 4/
06/01/2020 + 35 days /Chapter 3/
04/27/2020 + 30 days /Chapter 2/
03/28/2020 + 00 days, first release /Chapter 1/

 

[BlandChili]

I want to thank you for this comment because it was a reality check for me.

Aw, you're welcome!

Even though I only do bug-testing and occasional proofreading, I admit that pointing out plot holes is very tempting as well. From there, it's a slippery slope into "I think writing it a bit differently would improve the scene" until you find yourself playing narrative advisor and thinking you could do better.

Yes, it's hard to get involved and stay respectfully quiet, especially in regards to areas you aren't meant to meddle with when you feel like you're spotting a glaring flaw.

I think the best way to give story criticism is for it to be a prepared dialogue, it's better to converse orally about this sort of thing. Reading criticism of your story, plot and characters can be disheartening to a writer because cold white paper don't convey emotions and any attempt to "soften" your written criticism can come across as patronising.

On one hand, you want to improve the end product. On another, you're kinda affecting the game and possibly getting in the way of Eva's original creative idea. And while the critique might improve the quality, it might also disrupt the work process (additions to the original plan, prolonging development time, possible rewrites, general second-guessing).

Yes, but I also think at some point you have to trust that the creator in question is professional enough to not take criticism personally and to not read insult into them.
I also think an important aspect of narrative criticism, that both the sender and receiver sometimes forgets, is that criticism doesn't necessarily mean "change this specific thing completely and at all costs" but rather "take it up for consideration," getting criticism for something and eventually deciding that it works as it is, is also completely valid.

Learning to interpret criticism and use it functionally is a skill too.

I guess it's important to let go and leave the game be as it is, even if it's not perfect.

That goes for both creator and reviewer as such, but the opposite is also true in a way, you shouldn't just become complacent with your original idea and think you can make it all up like you always do. We are people after all, our emotions, perspectives and habits change and we should be ready for change to occur.

It's a bit like that old militairy quote from Helmut von Moltke: "no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy," just instead it would be something like "no idea survives first contact with criticism," but that doesn't have to mean your idea is dumb or can't still work

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Maybe they only ban games when enough people cry on social media about them, like when they banned Rape Day.

Not "Rape Day" too?!? Cancel Culture has gone too far!

(I'm joking. As much as I hate Cancel Culture... someone made a game named "Rape Day"? WTF?)

 

[Tierra_Azul]

To be honest it's a two edged sword. Everything you say it's true, but on the other hand an external feedback can sometimes give you fresh perspective on things, give you new ideas or even help you unblock your creativity on something that you were feeling stuck. Everyone's different, so it really depends on the person, or in this specific case, the creator.

I would agree if this was a video game, as there is gameplay mechanics you would want feedback on. But this is first and foremost a VN. So it's more like an interactive novella than a traditional game. The artist/writer should always follow their vision/idea, Imagine some fans telling John Steinbeck or Hemingway how to improve their stories. Take a look at HBOs version of the GOT, it went down hill when they had to use their own ideas instead of drawing from George R.R. Martins blueprint. Its Evas vision that ultimately got us interested in her work, taking feedback from some random people of f95zone/discord/patreon won't improve her work.
Just to be clear im not saying Eva is on these authours level in writing, but I think every authour should tell the story they set out to create. I know editors do give feedback to writers, but I don't think many of us "fans"/patreons have the skills or mindset needed for such a job.

Fan feedback can either be great to improve the end result of a product or to help it derail it to oblivion. It takes some thick skin and a strong mentallity to be able to absorb external feedback and see where it can actually help you progress, without losing your own view and perspective. A lot of games in here that showed potential got really derailed by creators listening too much to their fans feedback and trying to please everyone, but there's also examples of those that actually improved.

Agreed, I think one of the reasons GGGB was getting worse towards the end, was that Eva started listening to a vocal part of her patreons (Just a haunch). Just reading this thread, where one horrible idea after another has been thrown out. It would have ended up as a Ed, Stan and Jeremy fuckfest if she took input from this site. It's kinda like looking at twitter for balanced political takes.

 

[Brickman]

You must be registered to see the links

Chapter 8 weekly status report (7)
Hi everybody. I'm trying to make progress on chapter 8 as fast as possible, so I'll summarize briefly:

• I'm still focusing on the writing. I feel this past week it's been easier to make progress and I'm currently at around 11.200 lines of code. This update will probably be close to Chapter 6 in length, and my rough estimate is that I'm about 80% done with the script.
• I have 2 sex scenes and 2 big scenes left to write. I will try to have them done by the end of the week, but it's probably going to take a bit longer.
• Bugtesting on the first half of the script has already started, and the colorist is still working on the illustrations (so I'm not the only one who's taking longer, thank God!). Once I'm done with the writing I'll go hard on finishing the illustrations and creating a few extra drawings needed. This shouldn't take longer than a week.
• I can't give a release date yet, but I hope the next status report will be the last one before that.

Once again, thank you for your patience! I'll go back to work now

 

[Sherka]

You know, since the beginning of the game, Molly and Ed are presented as a cute older adult couple who never had children, that's why Lena's close relationship with Molly, Molly sees her as the daughter she could never have, it shows that they both wanted children. Ed from the beginning shows interested in Lena and since then a silly idea came to my head, what if, if with the passing of the updates, Lena decides to sleep with Ed to give them a child, it's so stupid, I know, but it would be so fucking hilarious if it happened
Just an idea, in case Eva reads the thread for ideas for future updates

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[DoubleE]

You know, since the beginning of the game, Molly and Ed are presented as a cute older adult couple who never had children, that's why Lena's close relationship with Molly, Molly sees her as the daughter she could never have, it shows that they both wanted children. Ed from the beginning shows interested in Lena and since then a silly idea came to my head, what if, if with the passing of the updates, Lena decides to sleep with Ed to give them a child, it's so stupid, I know, but it would be so fucking hilarious if it happened
Just an idea, in case Eva reads the thread for ideas for future updates

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Thanks, I hate it.

 

[MacAdGames]

i think ppl on f95 are traumatized by NTR lmao..

Dont get me wrong, i hate NTR.. but ppl see NTR in litherally EVERYTHING lmao

True dat!

 

[lwahrleff]

You know, since the beginning of the game, Molly and Ed are presented as a cute older adult couple who never had children, that's why Lena's close relationship with Molly, Molly sees her as the daughter she could never have, it shows that they both wanted children. Ed from the beginning shows interested in Lena and since then a silly idea came to my head, what if, if with the passing of the updates, Lena decides to sleep with Ed to give them a child, it's so stupid, I know, but it would be so fucking hilarious if it happened
Just an idea, in case Eva reads the thread for ideas for future updates

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Thanks, I love it Damn, now I'm totally wishing that'd be a route...

 

[Priappus]

You know, since the beginning of the game, Molly and Ed are presented as a cute older adult couple who never had children, that's why Lena's close relationship with Molly, Molly sees her as the daughter she could never have, it shows that they both wanted children. Ed from the beginning shows interested in Lena and since then a silly idea came to my head, what if, if with the passing of the updates, Lena decides to sleep with Ed to give them a child, it's so stupid, I know, but it would be so fucking hilarious if it happened
Just an idea, in case Eva reads the thread for ideas for future updates

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I do not like the idea of seeing Lena with a bloated belly,but even if Dev agreed with this what would happen to the child?babies need a lot of care,would Lena leave everything else to take care of her baby?
I think this idea of pregnancy is silly.

 

[Deleted member 2741684]

• I can't give a release date yet, but I hope the next status report will be the last one before that.

So, approximately 2-3 weeks to wait

 

[lwahrleff]

I do not like the idea of seeing Lena with a bloated belly,but even if Dev agreed with this what would happen to the child?babies need a lot of care,would Lena leave everything else to take care of her baby?
I think this idea of pregnancy is silly.

Relax, like they said, it was just a silly thought
Also, I think the whole reasoning is that Lena would be a surrogate mom for Molly and Ed's child, so she wouldn't have to raise the kid after it's born.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

I do not like the idea of seeing Lena with a bloated belly,but even if Dev agreed with this what would happen to the child?babies need a lot of care,would Lena leave everything else to take care of her baby?
I think this idea of pregnancy is silly.

Out of all the "silly" theories that emerge in discussions on this page, I think this is one of those that aren't all that unlikely. Ed tells Lena he wanted to have a child, and it's also included in his bio in the game. The fact that that dialogue is included, strongly suggests it will be followed up on later – in some way or other.

There's also the sex scene with Ian and Allison where you can decide for Ian to cum inside of her, and Allison's surprisingly mild reaction might indicate that she's open to the idea of getting pregnant with Ian. The fact that Eva has talked about a time skip at some point, could also be related to having pregnancy included in the story, not just in the endings as in GGGB.

Of course, the relationship between Lena and Ed/Molly is a long way from a point where this would seem logical. Also the time skip was originally mentioned as something happening around halfway through, and Lena being pregnant and/or having a baby to care for for half of the game – no matter who the other parent is – would be… odd. We'll probably just have to wait and see.

So, approximately 2-3 weeks to wait

Yeah, around that, or maybe a bit more? If I understand her correctly, she hopes to give a release date in two weeks. About the same amount of time she indicates finishing the rest of the writing and illustrations would take. And then the bugtesting for the rest of the episode. At least within the end of the month seems likely.

 

[mommysboiii]

Not "Rape Day" too?!? Cancel Culture has gone too far!

(I'm joking. As much as I hate Cancel Culture... someone made a game named "Rape Day"? WTF?)

Dont get me wrong I think that game was trash too, but I dont think it get deserved too be banned.I dont have anything against rape in VIDEOGAMES as long as its done good and fits in story and fits the cheracter like good girl gone bad.In reallife I think its disgusting the same goes for killing by the way, but bringing morals in videogames is so weird because most are like rape in videogames its moraly wrong and than play a shootergame or allow shootergames on patreon and I am like dude killing is morally wrong too so I am always so confused where they draw the line.

 

[Tallyhoe]

So, approximately 2-3 weeks to wait

I think first week of June for Alpha. Pretty sure the art won’t finish in time, the bug will appear in playtest and she’ll need to clean up the writing.

 

[DDDIsReal]

Honestly I think she needs some help with writing and stuff. We passed from release every moth to release(even smaller than previous) after 4-5 months

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Honestly I think she needs some help with writing and stuff. We passed from release every moth to release(even smaller than previous) after 4-5 months

Where do you get 4–5 months from? That’s completely wrong.

She told in the weekly update that it will be about the same length as episode 6 – which I believe is the second longest episode to date.