Zedire

Active Member
Jun 3, 2018
721
1,762
Nice comparisons visually, but I feel like most of them don't quite fit the characters. Lena and Cindy look too young (very pretty, but kind of too innocent and simple?), especially compared to Ivy who is meant to be the same age as Lena but looks heaps older (I freaking love her hair though. Gorgeous!). Louise doesn't look emo at all, although the model you picked for her is stunning. Holly and Allison are pretty good fits though - Holly especially is cute af, and really similar.

Sorry for being such a killjoy, I know that this probably took you ages to find these (so that's pretty commendable) and it's easy for me to criticize with no examples of my own to share. lol.

EDIT: BTW, I know you were probably going purely visual, but iirc Lena's hair is meant to be black in the game. I think Ian mentions that? I assume Eva just made it that bluish color so it's easier to show the hair detail or something, or it looked better?
 
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Ashley young

Active Member
Dec 4, 2017
559
1,457
Nearly 4 months and still no update. She promised us an update every 2 months. Oke she went on a vacation, but how is it 4 months already and no update? Its the same story with every developer. When a game gets populair they just cash in and work less.
The update duration will only increase from now on. Vacation aside, I guess updates will take 3-4 months going forward because of too many game paths. This is arguably the biggest flaw in the dual protagonist system, yes it might make the story more interactive but it will also increase the work overhead going forward. You can see why EvaKiss is a bit hesitant to make Ian more customizable, because Lena will already have like 10 permutations for a lot of scenes based on tattoos and clothes.

The same issue is there in BADIK as well, too much branching has essential made the release schedule to every 4-5 months, but the issue is that while BADIK can boast 2500+ renders every update, ORS can barely pump out more than 100 images every update (because of it being hand drawn compared to Blender / DAZ).

The next EvaKiss game might be years away, but I hope it returns back to a single protagonist.
 

John Doe Jr.

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2017
1,153
2,272
Like others have mentioned, you basically need to man up and piss off Minerva at every opportunity you get.

She gives you a bad book? Tell her it's a shit book. Holly offers to switch books with you? Agree to it so you'll surprise Minerva. Avoid picking options where Ian complies with Minerva's demands. You will end up with a bad agenda bar with Minerva but that's what you want. That's the gist of it.

As for the details, well I have never failed to get the scene but I have always made sure to switch the book with Holly. To do that however you need to not meet up with Alison for lunch at the beginning of the game. Meeting Alison locks out the book switcheroo event with Holly later on. Again Im not sure how crucial this book switcheroo is, but that may be what's stopping you from getting the scene. Good luck.
You can still fuck Minerva without switching books just continue to piss her off
 
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Zedire

Active Member
Jun 3, 2018
721
1,762
The update duration will only increase from now on. Vacation aside, I guess updates will take 3-4 months going forward because of too many game paths. This is arguably the biggest flaw in the dual protagonist system, yes it might make the story more interactive but it will also increase the work overhead going forward.
1) There aren't too many game paths (IMO). Having as many as it does is what allows the player the sort of freedom that makes this game so enjoyable - you can roleplay and Ian and Lena that's likely to suit what you like, rather then something fixed and predetermined.
2) I don't really think the wait time or workload are the real problems here - it's people's impatience and lack of ability to fathom that a good product takes time to make, and a dev is a human too. Eva isn't doing any more or any less then what she feels is right for the game she wants/envisions, and I'd rather she takes this amount of time rather then pumping out content that is common and forgettable. I also think people are too used to games that have a faster turn around and lower quality, yet expect that same turnaround with the superior quality of this game. You can't have it both ways.
You can see why EvaKiss is a bit hesitant to make Ian more customizable, because Lena will already have like 10 permutations for a lot of scenes based on tattoos and clothes.
Is she hesitant though? I'm no patron so I only read the news that is posted here, but as far as I'm aware she already made it clear a while back that she also plans to give Ian facial hair options and tattoos in future, as well as the clothes she's adding in the coming chapter. I don't think she showed any hesitation, but correct me if I'm wrong. She was probably mentally prepared for the workload of creating customized CG's from her work on GGGB, but she may have not have been prepared for the pressure of people waiting for her to get it all done.
The same issue is there in BADIK as well, too much branching has essential made the release schedule to every 4-5 months, but the issue is that while BADIK can boast 2500+ renders every update, ORS can barely pump out more than 100 images every update (because of it being hand drawn compared to Blender / DAZ).
I haven't played that game, and I'm not sure how many people work on it, but I imagine that it also takes a lot longer for Eva because she insists on doing so much of it herself. I can't really fault her in that - every artist has their own way of doing things, and perhaps being a perfectionist and enjoying having full control means it's hard for her to relinquish responsibilities to other people? Just a guess, I don't know.
The next EvaKiss game might be years away, but I hope it returns back to a single protagonist.
I wouldn't be opposed to this. I think Eva has already proven she can write female and male MC's well, so I assume whatever she comes up with next (if there is another project), will be good stuff and not a downgrade by any means. I actually hope she just has a male MC next time if she goes back to just having one; obviously I don't mind a female MC, but I feel like Ian has more personality then both Lena and Ashley combined (IMHO they're a bit bland). Ian was well thought-up.
 

mannice431

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2017
1,007
1,076
I think the weekly update is gonna be the alpha release, that's why there hasn't been one yet, she's trying to get it done before the end of the month.
 
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Mr_Ainz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
237
412
Earlier today I was thinking about Ian's job situation and remembered that when he first meets Seymour he has the option of impressing him, then if you go with Holly and meet the bearded guy (Victor?) he has the possibility of getting that job too.

Working for Seymour seems like the more profitable career, while working for Victor appears to be the more fulfilling one, at least thats how I see it. For Lena we see the same situation with modelling for Saymour/Axel and pursuing a musical career.

Maybe the dev plans on adding martial artist as a career for Ian and OF for Lena. What do you guys think? Are there other options for jobs there?
 

BlandChili

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2020
1,891
4,125
Earlier today I was thinking about Ian's job situation and remembered that when he first meets Seymour he has the option of impressing him, then if you go with Holly and meet the bearded guy (Victor?) he has the possibility of getting that job too.

Working for Seymour seems like the more profitable career, while working for Victor appears to be the more fulfilling one, at least thats how I see it. For Lena we see the same situation with modelling for Saymour/Axel and pursuing a musical career.

Maybe the dev plans on adding martial artist as a career for Ian and OF for Lena. What do you guys think? Are there other options for jobs there?
I think there will also be more mundane options. In GGGB, Eva's other game, if Ashley doesn't become famous and doesn't continue studying she can start working at the local clothing store during the epilogue and is basically a nobody.

I think Ian and Lena might have similar options that you could fall into if you attempt to commit to everything without choosing a "specialisation." Ian continues working boring review jobs or falls into the gig-economy while Lena continues to work waitress jobs.

Not spectacular or anything ;)

Other than that I actually think Lena might be able to establish less glamorous modelling career without Seymour/Axel if she navigates her OF and Insta accounts smartly and gets the right jobs with Danny and perhaps Billy.
 
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dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
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Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Aug 5, 2016
4,792
13,044
The update duration will only increase from now on. Vacation aside, I guess updates will take 3-4 months going forward because of too many game paths. This is arguably the biggest flaw in the dual protagonist system, yes it might make the story more interactive but it will also increase the work overhead going forward. You can see why EvaKiss is a bit hesitant to make Ian more customizable, because Lena will already have like 10 permutations for a lot of scenes based on tattoos and clothes.

The same issue is there in BADIK as well, too much branching has essential made the release schedule to every 4-5 months, but the issue is that while BADIK can boast 2500+ renders every update, ORS can barely pump out more than 100 images every update (because of it being hand drawn compared to Blender / DAZ).

The next EvaKiss game might be years away, but I hope it returns back to a single protagonist.
Evakiss traces porn images while DPC render 3D images. BaDik updates are really big while ORS ones aren't that big compared with GGGB ones.
Imo Evakiss worked hard making GGGB updates every month. Now she has a great base of patrons and doesn't need to work that hard anymore.
 

dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
2,026
4,988
I'd say with the amount of subscribers, most likely at the cheapest tier, with a percentage at tier 2 and a handful at tier 3, she's probably making around 90-100k USD per year (or whatever the Euro equivalent of that is). Given that she's employing 2-3 other people to work for her on freelance, plus outsourcing for more music, ect, 30k-40k USD could be going towards that, leaving her with 50-60k USD per year for herself. And while that's not a bad income at all for an artist following their creative passion (actually very decent for doing creative work vs most starving artists) I don't think most people realize the time involved in such a project, even with the outsourcing. She's likely putting in 60-70+ hour weeks, turning that 60k into $16.50 - $19 USD per hour. Also not bad for a passion project that can turn into much bigger money once released (speaking from an artist's point of view, of whom the majority put the same time in with much less pay off). But Looking at it from a game-industry standpoint, she's likely averaging an entry-level QA person's hourly salary, given overtime.... while developing a whole game.

She's not exactly riding in a luxury magic-carriage lined with Patreon dollars yet.
 

LazyName

Member
Aug 17, 2017
127
338
Maybe i'm misremembering things but didn't she just come off a big vacation. She extended her release schedule to once every two months which is fine considering how this new project has grown in scope and complexity from her last project. Now on top of that she took her first major hiatus since GGB which she ran like clockwork. I can understand getting antsy if you're a patron especially considering how a lot of developers tend to slip in quality and reliability over time but for eva kiss who has been so consistent for so long i would say that as of yet i havent seen anything too alarming. Her last release was 3 months ago she took some time off which everyone deserves so cut her some slack. I know i sound biased so i'll just come out and admit i have a huge bias for Eva ever since the first game they've been consistent on their scheduling and the quality of work delivered I've played a lot of these games and there are a few really great devs I consider Eva to be a stand out among all of them.
 

BigSexy57

Member
Apr 13, 2019
118
254
I don't think most people realize the time involved in such a project, even with the outsourcing. She's likely putting in 60-70+ hour weeks
I really don't realise, just as many other players. So they think it's allright. But i know who can realise it - other working artists and coders.
So i asked few of cgi artists that i know - is it a good speed of drawing of like 50-80 pictures per mounth (or most times less pictures for noticably more than mounth), with all the same several characters... and they said that they would lost their job with a speed of light, if they would do that little for such a big ammount of time. And when i said that it's not actually a full quality drawings, but just colored tracings over a screenshoted pictures of real humans, they looked at me with a very strange way, like i was trying to tell that somebody actually do selling a pictures of 3 year old kids for a price of Mona Lisa or something like that )
So maybe the coding job do that labor so hard and long? Well, usually coders of something hard and big, like their own software - must find coding solutions for a series of very different task, to make their programm work properly and better then others in the end. But in renpy a coder don't have to find a brand new ways as an everyday challange. The structure of the game basic code is almost all the same: place character's pictures, place a text for output in a special area, portion by portion, and place triggers when to output the content picture on display. The most hard "tree of the story" code is strings like "if Dialog_Option1 then show picture1.jpg, else go next scene". It's actually primitive af and all the same blocks of code usually should be just copy-pasted with differs in text and pictures output.
So, when somebody telling me that it is a hard hard hard long long long job which requires so much time - i say yes, i believe, if that someone is a 5 year old kid - it's defenetly an achievement. But for a grownup, or even a group of grownups, it maybe not so good as it could and should be. Unless someone just wish to make "the development" as longer as possible. Why not? If patreons still pay per mounth, but not for all job's done )

why is still no weekly update ?
I am pretty sure that if the patreon will ever be so kind to change its policy from paying to developers not per time\update, but only will give money when all planed job completed and only if users are actually happy with it - then the same artists, coders, developers of any kind will show the miracles of job speed and users will get a fully completed games almost per every week )) Lazy asses and simulants will fall of from that market, but real professionals who actually can provide quality content really good and fast - will make all the gamers happy for about the same ammount of money, (but i am sure that even more people will wish to donate for a real job, quality and speed) which are now goes for milkers of da patreons, patreons who in most cases getting yet another portion of almost nothing trually interesting per updates for now )) imho. imho. imho ffs.
 
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