VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[John Doe Jr.]

How do I unlock this decision?
View attachment 1815075

You probably don't have enough charisma

 

[Pick_A_Name]

"Hi, my name is Eva Kiss.
And if you choose to do drugs I will teach you a lesson so you understand how bad I think your choice was"

discuss

 

[alexferno]

That is true, however those feelings don't come across as genuine feelings of Lena, but rather a desperate attempt to convince herself that she's not a bad person so she must feel guilty (when she totally didn't when she was making a decision). But if she's guilty, why does she keep repeatedly doing the same thing over and over, thus feeling more guilty? If a person consciously keeps doing a bad thing (if she thinks about them, she's conscious of them and has agency to stop herself), even if they feel guilty, they kinda become a bad person because they change their actions shape their personality. Lena becomes a bad girlfriend to Ian, and a bad friend to Louise. I guess my question is, if Lena understands that she's doing those bad things behind Louise and Ian, can she really claim that she cares about them at this point? It's just in my experience, people who are not diagnosed with some kind of disorder or mental handicap, don't keep doing a really shitty thing if they really don't have a good excuse or are motivated by a strong emotion (lust is not that). You don't keep kicking your friend in the back, and then ask how they're doing if you intend to keep kicking them. That's behavior of a psychopath. Usually when you treat your loved ones badly, it's because something irritates you about them, and you want to act out, which means your relationship becomes worse with them. It made sense for Ashley to want to bully Eva if they weren't friends anymore. And at this point it would make sense for Lena to bully Louise or treat her like shit out of her resentment caused by her lust for Jeremy (she constantly refers that she was envious that Louise got to enjoy his dick all the time). But she does the opposite which makes Lena's actions seem like they happen in a bubble and have no consequence for her personal moral corruption. She's not only hypocritical in this sense, she's almost bipolar or borderline, because her actions and thoughts don't align. It's like Lena the "Louise's Friend" and Lena the "Jeremy's Slut" are completely different people that take control based on whether Lena feels horny at the moment or not.



You summarized it perfectly, but let's look at what you said. The context is that the players want to be naughty. "Those who like cheating and corruption" which Lena is none of those things. Nothing in Lena's personality would make her so weak to fall for some convenient black dick and betray her fairly close friend while somewhat remembering that she's actually supposed to be in love with Ian. There's a direct conflict between what the player wants Lena to do and who Lena is as a character (not a blank slate with a baggage). Players corrupting Lena results in such a mess where Lena can easily participate in all debauchery, then have obligatory guilty feelings that feel fake given what she's done, and then suddenly act surprised and outraged whenever someone does remotely similar but she ends up being on the receiving end of those actions. Blaming Ian for dishonesty but easily keeping secrets from him, blaming Ivy for doing business with Axel behind her back but then doing something way worse with Louise's boyfriend.

One path however avoids these problems. Let's look at Mike for example. It is a very controversial path due to Lena's background trauma from cheating, but one can sort of understand how not knowing Mike's girlfriend personally somehow makes it okay in Lena's mind to be the other girl, because she's not the one being hurt in this scenario and it's thrilling for her to be the seductress and be the one with power in a relationship for a change. The difference however, is that Lena in this path enjoys doing a bad thing, she barely even thinks about Mike's girlfriend, disrespects her during sex with him, so not having guilty thoughts about being naughty helps sell this path as believable. Lena is yet to face reality of her actions. While she might act like a thirsty bitch, in Lena's mind she's not responsible for Mike playing along.

Being involved with Jeremy on the other hand is a separate can of worms that the quotes you mentioned demonstrate very well. Most of them are spoken by Lena in conditions where she catches herself doing a bad thing, acknowledges that it's bad, and ends up doing even a worse thing just because... she's horny? Why does Jeremy in particular make her this stupid horny, and why is it so hard for her to fight that lust or deal with that in healthier ways? Such behavior makes Lena feel very shallow, except she's anything but shallow in the rest of the game, so, what person Lena really is? The traitorous cock-hungry bimbo or the intelligent and empathetic person who hates injustice? Perhaps the problem is that the game wants to sell the fantasy of Lena seducing Jeremy without actually considering that it goes against Lena's principles? In my opinion, it would make more sense if Jeremy was the one who initiated flirting with Lena, and Lena would feel rush of flirting back, acting on her desire even when she originally didn't plan for it. That would make it easier to swallow that she can both want to fuck Jeremy and feel sorry for Louise. But because she hunts for Jeremy, seduces him with clear intent, then it's really hard to swallow that Lena is really such a disgusting individual with absolutely zero self-awareness or defined moral standing.

In GGGB, player's influence on Ashley was tracked via Bad points. She could become a murderous psychopath, and somehow it would still be "logical", because a murderous psychopath wouldn't feel bad about cheating on her dear boyfriend or care that her ex-BFF committed suicide (Oh no! Anyway...). Tracking Ashley's morality helped justify Ashley's crazy actions and prevent her from contradicting herself with sudden Holier-Than-Thou mood swings. If the players expect a similar kind of agency and want to stretch Lena's character as far away from her starting point as possible, then the game should track that character development.

This game either needs to track player's impact on Lena's personality with something other than "posh" variable or sacrifice agency by not letting Lena act outside of her character, or actually writing that behavior in a more plausible way so it fits all Lenas at the same time. Even a hidden "bad" stat would be appropriate in this sense, because it would help differentiate between Good Lena (never compromised her morality or redeemed herself) and Bad Lena (backstabbing horny slut who is not jealous anymore). And the funny thing is, there is such hidden variable which is relationship with Lola. But it's never checked in the game for anything when it could have indicated Lena's moral corruption the lower relationship with Lola dropped (she becomes careless of Lola's needs because her mind is in the gutter all the time).

All that said, while it might sound like I'm shitting on Eva's storytelling, I understand that the scenes are written first, and the plot is added later to fit those scenes, and not every scene acknowledges every possible way for the player to control Ian or Lena (plot-holes and inconsistencies become regular), and unfortunately the game is so big that you can't dedicate enough time to each storyline and consider each variation of Ian/Lena because the players want to get the story going and see more sexy scenes.

ORS characters are fairly complex and nuanced. Not everything is black or white and we can't always tell for sure what's going on inside their heads.
You might be right about Lena's feelings not being genuine, but the opposite can also be true. Lena seems to have some unresolved issues and is under a lot of stress (Axel, family, work and finances). On some routes, she's a messy person, makes plenty of bad decisions and is getting hooked on the adrenaline rush that goes with cheating/getting sexually involved with someone she shouldn't be with.
In many cases, people cheat on partners they love because they are selfish, unable to control their sexual urges and enjoy the thrill of cheating. But that doesn't mean they don't feel guilty about their actions or aren't capable of feeling empathy for others.
Hooking up with your friend's partner doesn't make you a psychopath, it just makes you a shitty friend. People like this exist in real life, and they usually try to hide it from their friend and act as if nothing happened.
From a storytelling standpoint, it makes sense for Lena to be hypocritical if she does morally questionable things. People who do shitty things to others wouldn't want the same thing done to them. Just like everyone else, liars don't like it when someone lies to them and cheaters don't like to be cheated on.
Stress, emotional trauma and getting stuck in a cycle of bad choices can influence how we perceive ourselves and the world around us. As you said, people's actions shape their personality. It's not unrealistic for someone to discover a new side of themselves and become "addicted" to it. For example, Breaking Bad is a very well-written show that revolves around this premise. Walter White is an average guy in his 50s who becomes a different person over the course of the show. He never stops caring for his family and friends, but his new-found thirst for power clouds his judgement and he ends up making horrible decisions and harming his loved ones.

 

[JenMistress]

Idk, I didn't think he looks anything like Curt Hennig. Shout out to the Old School Wrestling fans who get that reference.

 

[BloodyMares]

and we can't always tell for sure what's going on inside their heads

But we can, via narration. The characters explain their motivation every step of the way. "I was too horny to stop" / "I couldn't miss this once in a lifetime opportunity" / "I don't know if it was drugs or alcohol, but I felt compelled to go along with the situation". Granted, it's a bit after-the-fact explanation, given the unreliable narrator, and could not be representing of their true feelings at the moment, but I feel like usually the game does a very good job of explaining our protagonists' thought process describing why things happened the way they did. I just don't think those thoughts do a good job of explaining Lena's true motivation to pursue Jeremy and I hope that Eva eventually reveals that truth of Lena's actions like how she managed to reveal true reasons why Lena can't stop thinking about Axel. It's just those thought processes don't seem to morally impact the characters in a noticeable way, where you can clearly see the consequence of the corruption in other parts of Lena's life. It's easier to explain Lena's sexual exploration. Considering Lena's lifestyle and her sexual stalkfap content, it wouldn't be surprising if she decided to tip her toe in the world of porn, especially given all the money she could use to help her family or Molly and Ed with their cafe as well as buy all the fancy things for herself without having to rely on Seymour. All the set pieces have been carefully placed, the story would simply write itself at this point.

It's trickier to explain morally questionable decisions if the cons of those decisions for Lena's character outweigh the pros. She doesn't want to be Jeremy's girlfriend, she doesn't seem to like him as a person all that much either, so her motivation has to be intrinsic, something that goes beyond lust that she could satisfy with other human dildos. And so far, Lena's actions with Jeremy don't seem natural for her based on her thoughts, it's like she's trying to rewrite her own personality but we don't see what makes her want to do so, how her effort to seduce Jeremy is supposed to make her life better or happier, given how problematic and toxic it is. So she gets a taste of his BBC, then what? It's not like he's a God in bed (he seems to shoot his load rather fast). I could buy this set-up much easier if Lena admitted to having a twisted fantasy of either stealing Jeremy away from Louise or showing Louise the truth about him in the cruelest way possible (venting her shame from Axel's actions, thus wanting to punish herself via Louise's proxy and prove to her that Jeremy is a bad boyfriend who shouldn't be trusted), or if the fact of making Jeremy cheat on Louise would turn her on, then I'd have more understanding of Lena's actions and would probably predict that next time she'll try to make Louise watch while she's fucking him in front of her, and rub it in Louise's face how she begged her to jerk Jeremy off during Ivy's game, and try to convince Louise that she's just a cuckquean that enjoys watching Jeremy being pleasured by Lena, like "It takes a sub to know one, I hated that Axel cheated on me but I loved watching him with Cherry and this thought pisses me off so much that I want to give Louise what she craves but feels shameful about".

TL;DR - it's not like I believe it's impossible for Lena to behave this way, I just can't understand for now why she's doing it and therefore if it's hard for me to relate to her or like her. Even if I'm a player who picks those options, my motivation might be anything from corrupting Lena (and see how her character changes and be disappointed that it really doesn't) to morbid curiosity how the game explains Lena's motivation and then completionism and simply wanting to see a hot scene that Eva spent time crafting. None of those meta-thoughts would apply to Lena, so I'd like to see why she actually does it in the game. Hopefully Eva will address that in the future chapters though I can see the allure in leaving things ambiguous and letting the player fill in the blanks, to come up with explanations for Lena (like I just did in my several examples).

 

[BloodyMares]

How do I unlock this decision?
View attachment 1815075

You probably like Cindy a bit too much for such a selfless action. Did you comment on her Peoplegram photo? Or danced with her at the bar? Actions that increase Ian's desire for Cindy prevent Ian from being a loyal friend for Wade.

 

[juniorforlife17313]

Gillian can get killed by Harambes big cock smacking her upside the head for all i care fam. Cheating cunt...

 

[Night Hacker]

Ian pursuing Cindy is not much better than Lena pursuing Jeremy. Ian greatly suffered from his ex Gillian cheating on him, but he's doing the same to his buddy and doesn't even think about his history with Gillian. But since he doesn't think about it, he seems less hypocritical

Yeah well, his buddy is a moron who treats his girlfriend like a piece of shit while he lazes around. She's his girlfriend (though he treats her with annoyance and disrespect, not like a love interest) not his wife (I have seen married couples treat each other better). So I have ZERO problem with Ian persuing Cindy. This doesn't even remotely compare to Ian's past love who he cared a lot about as his buddy doesn't show ANY love towards Cindy... AT ALL... it's honestly annoying to read his (and P-P-P-Perry's) dialog, constantly berating her when all she wanted to do with spend time with her BF. Heck, Cindy goes to Wade's favourite pub, does what he wants to do, but when she suggests going to a place she wants to check out, he becomes a dick!

Mistreat your girlfriend constantly and you'll lose her to someone who doesn't mistreat her. That's life. I can't stand the Wade character. I was married for a long time, I know how to treat a woman and can't stand guys that mistreat them. I purposely persued Cindy and won't give a shit what Wade ultimately does in the story.

 

[Night Hacker]

In real life Ian doing that to a friend is just as bad as Lena and Jeremy as the situations are pretty similar. But, thankfully this isn't real life so I can go ahead and have Ian steal Cindy and Lena fuck around with Jeremy while still maintaining a clear conscience

Jeremy is not attached to anyone, and he says so many times. As for Cindy, sorry Wade, keep mistreating her and talking shit about her and you'll LOSE HER... Wade doesn't deserve her and she's not his wife. I want Ian and Cindy to become a thing just to piss Wade off for treating her like a sack of shit!

 

[John Doe Jr.]

I just thought of something that might potentially come into the game. Ok, so, if Ian doesn't go for Alison but is good friends with Jeremy and actively watches the videos/pics Jeremy sends him of Alison it's obviously a seed for voyeurism being planted. If/when Gillian shows up it may carry over with her and Ian may take an interest in seeing what she does with whoever she's with now

 

[alexferno]

Yeah well, his buddy is a moron who treats his girlfriend like a piece of shit while he lazes around. She's his girlfriend (though he treats her with annoyance and disrespect, not like a love interest) not his wife (I have seen married couples treat each other better). So I have ZERO problem with Ian persuing Cindy. This doesn't even remotely compare to Ian's past love who he cared a lot about as his buddy doesn't show ANY love towards Cindy... AT ALL... it's honestly annoying to read his (and P-P-P-Perry's) dialog, constantly berating her when all she wanted to do with spend time with her BF. Heck, Cindy goes to Wade's favourite pub, does what he wants to do, but when she suggests going to a place she wants to check out, he becomes a dick!

Mistreat your girlfriend constantly and you'll lose her to someone who doesn't mistreat her. That's life. I can't stand the Wade character. I was married for a long time, I know how to treat a woman and can't stand guys that mistreat them. I purposely persued Cindy and won't give a shit what Wade ultimately does in the story.

Wade is a very flawed person, but saying he doesn't show any love towards Cindy isn't a fair statement. It's also not true that he's constantly mistreating her. These are my thoughts on Cindy x Wade relationship:

Cindy and Wade's relationship is doomed to fail, but Wade isn't the only one to blame. Cindy has a lot of issues and is far from the perfect girlfriend. She's selfish, dishonest, hypocritical, passive-aggressive and toxic at times.
It's not true that he isn't making any efforts to fix their relationship. Wade hates going out, but he goes out with her sometimes, he takes her to live music events, goes clubbing and tries to get his friends to help him fix their relationship.
Cindy mocks Wade in front of their friends.
She did a nude photoshoot with an Adonis-looking guy she barely knew behind Wade's back. Not that there's anything wrong with nude modelling, but she should've told Wade about it. He's her boyfriend and honesty is one of the most important things in a relationship.
Wade is passionate about gaming and wants to make a career out of it, but Cindy isn't supportive at all. In fact, she's very bitchy and dismissive about it. At the same time, she expects him to be supportive of her new career choice (after being dishonest with him).
Wade didn't want to go clubbing on his birthday, but she forced him to do it anyway because it was what she wanted.
When he calls her out on her bullshit, she gets mad and makes him feel guilty for her own mistakes.
Sending nudes to Ian (one of Wade's best friends), grinding on his cock, kissing and cheating with him on Wade's birthday don't help her case either.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

This is the key thing in my opinion, the heat of the moment. I can understand and excuse both Ian and Lena's actions when they're done in the heat of the moment, in a moment of weakness. That's why I don't judge Lena for spying on Louise or blowing Jeremy during Ivy's game. Because it was fun in a group setting and she was very horny, it's hard to feel responsible for simply following the rules of the game (even if Ivy rigged the rules). It's a bit harder to excuse the hacking Louise's phone part because it wasn't done in the heat of the moment, she did it on purpose and with full realization of what she was doing. Same with the sexting, same with surprising Jeremy with a morning fuck. These decisions are not made on a whim as an "oopsie", those were carefully calculated moves. And if those moves were intentional, taking advantage of convenient opportunities, then it's hard to pretend that Lena didn't know that she'd be throwing Louise or Ian under the bus with her master-plan. And because she not only does it once, regrets it, and feels sorry about what happened, but keeps on excusing her bad behavior over and over again, then I feel like it should be more noticeable in Lena's personality overall. There should be an emerging pattern where she excuses more of her bad behavior, leading to a negative character development, a falling from grace as a result. A shift in perspective where she assumes "live and let live" attitude, free of moral judgment, perfectly aware of her negative undertones in her actions but being in peace with it. Because she could easily assume the attitude she has with Mike and simply hold Jeremy accountable for being an easily seduced horndog, but she does feel guilty and responsible which is confusing.


Exactly, and I feel like Lena is already at a planning stage with Jeremy though. She didn't "stumble" on sexting with him, she didn't "stumble" on his dick in Louise's bedroom (even if those opportunities were very convenient for her). She made conscious decisions to tease him when he actually texted to check up on how things were with his girlfriend. Even if she felt horny beforehand, him mentioning Louise should've spoiled her mood a bit and cause her to actually be respectful of Jeremy's feelings at that moment. And yet she decides to change topics to focus on how hot she felt during their little sex game, then make the situation worse by sending nudes to him and asking for a dick pic, all the while describing what she would do if they had more time together... It's not being in the heat of the moment, it's actually starting the fire when you're cold. Same with Jeremy peacefully sleeping in Louise's room; minding her business and letting him be is like the easiest and most obvious morally correct choice in that situation, but at that stage she thinks it'd be "fun" to wake him up, with clear intent to have sex with him behind Louise's back. At this stage I just think of her post-nut clarity as hypocritical. She never regrets her mistake seriously, it's like she acknowledges it, goes "Oh well", and because the experience was so pleasurable, she simply doesn't care that it was wrong. I'd say at this point she's hooked on that pleasure, and next time Jeremy appears in her sight, she'll make yet another elaborate plan to have a one-on-one time with him. And while all of that is happening, there's Holly who makes Lena act all protective and moral which feels very weird when it's happening in the same playthrough. It's like combining Good Path and Bad Path in the same playthrough as if Lena doesn't know who she is or who she wants to be. It'd be actually very interesting if the game acknowledged Lena acting very chaotic and compromising herself all the time, and I don't mean some throwaway lines, but a dedicated path where Lena feels very conflicted about herself and starts second-guessing her life choices, her connections, her actions etc. If her body couldn't handle such imbalance and it messed her up mentally.

I think we see the different scenes fairly similar. Though I also put the scene with Louise’s phone in the same category as the two previous ones. It doesn’t happen in the heat of the moment like the blowjob, and she needs to make a more active choice to see Jeremy’s dick than when she first sees it in Louise’s bedroom. But it’s still a temptation that offers itself to her from nowhere, and even though it certainly isn’t OK to unlock the phone and look at Louise’s intimate pictures, I think it’s relatable how you can manage to convince yourself in a moment like that that you’re not doing anything wrong, especially because there aren’t any victims. Or, rather, the victims wouldn’t suffer from it because they’d never know about it.

Though I agree the guilt after the sex scene and the sexting is less convincing. Her choice to walk into Louise’s bedroom is understandable in the sense that it’s another temptation that offers itself from out of nowhere. It’s a choice she’s not prepared to make, making it more likely that she lets her instincts control it rather than her rationality. But the consequences are so big that she can’t fully deny them in that moment. And most importantly, she doesn’t seem to have any qualms about it when she actually enters the bedroom. I think the adjustments in the remaster make the scene better, but mostly because it focus more on how horny she is, making it more believable that she actually gets some pleasure out of it herself, considering Jeremy’s rather poor stamina.

The starting point of the sexting scene reminds me of when Cindy sends the nude picture to Ian. Both Cindy and Jeremy have found good excuses to text Ian and Lena, and the lines between what’s acceptable to talk about and not, are pretty blurry. Cindy and Ian know that they’re in dangerous territory asking to send more pictures and actually sending them, but they’re gradually pushing the limits rather than taking a giant leap to the other side of the line. The texting between Lena and Jeremy could’ve played out in a similar way, but I agree that she seems pretty consciousless in the way she so explicitly makes her intentions clear, and push their interaction forward. If Eva wanted it, it would’ve been relatively simple to make it more subtle and less explicit. That probably wouldn’t include any nudes, but they could still, in a pretend-innocent way, discuss the blowjob and things like Lena admitting that she likes big dicks, and Jeremy admitting that he thinks Lena is the hottest among the girls.

 

[N0nsens3]

You probably like Cindy a bit too much for such a selfless action. Did you comment on her Peoplegram photo? Or danced with her at the bar? Actions that increase Ian's desire for Cindy prevent Ian from being a loyal friend for Wade.

Damn... It makes sense. I comment charismatic on Cidy Peoplegram photo and danced with her. I will restart my save. Thank you!

 

[BloodyMares]

The starting point of the sexting scene reminds me of when Cindy sends the nude picture to Ian. Both Cindy and Jeremy have found good excuses to text Ian and Lena, and the lines between what’s acceptable to talk about and not, are pretty blurry. Cindy and Ian know that they’re in dangerous territory asking to send more pictures and actually sending them, but they’re gradually pushing the limits rather than taking a giant leap to the other side of the line. The texting between Lena and Jeremy could’ve played out in a similar way, but I agree that she seems pretty consciousless in the way she so explicitly makes her intentions clear, and push their interaction forward. If Eva wanted it, it would’ve been relatively simple to make it more subtle and less explicit. That probably wouldn’t include any nudes, but they could still, in a pretend-innocent way, discuss the blowjob and things like Lena admitting that she likes big dicks, and Jeremy admitting that he thinks Lena is the hottest among the girls.

Yeah, agreed, the transition is way too fast in Lena's case. And there's one more detail that IMO makes Cindy sending Ian her photos more acceptable (for friends) which is the nature of Cindy's photos. Those are not just some private nudes or her dirty selfies, but professional photos that Axel has shot, and Cindy wants Ian's feedback on them to feel good about herself. That level of trust strokes Ian's ego and he oversteps his boundaries but neither interaction is overly flirty or dirty, since both Cindy and Ian try to play innocent and clueless about what they're actually doing which makes their interaction totally believable.

I think what would've improved the scene between Lena and Jeremy is if Lena didn't openly suggest her desire to be sexual with Jeremy, but indeed described how fun/naughty the experience was for her. And perhaps, if she didn't blow him, on the pretext of feeling guilty that she didn't get to finish him, Lena could send him an "inspirational" photo that he could use to remedy that. While still incredibly naughty, it would've been more playful than predatory and there would still be room for Lena to feel guilty about that.

And regarding Jeremy sleeping in Louise's room, I would've instead made it so Lena wanted a "simple peak" to see him nude one more time (just like in Ch 3). And then feeling more horny and cheeky, probably want to touch him one more time (ew, molestation, but nobody has to know, right?). And while she'd be too focused on the act, Jeremy would wake up, and then Lena would either feel very guilty about the act and ask him to keep it a secret, getting the hell out of there, or, resigning herself that she's been caught in the act, give him a solid morning jerkoff (or a blowjob if they already did that at Ivy's place) after which Jeremy and Lena would both feel slightly awkward and unsure where they stand and how the hell they're supposed to deal with Louise / Ian. That I think would fix most of the issues with Lena's character, at least for me. While it would still be fucked up, at least Lena's seduction of Jeremy wouldn't look so planned, but appear like she was fighting a losing battle.

And after that sequence of events, there would be a massive branching point that would determine Lena's resolve to pursue Jeremy (and therefore her priority for Ian / Louise). Either she would act very awkward around Jeremy, trying to ignore what they shared for the sake of her relationship with Ian or loyalty to Louise, or come up with an excuse to keep seeing Jeremy (cue resentment for Louise route which would either lead to NTR or cuckquean, and her refusal to commit to Ian to avoid dealing with guilty desire for Jeremy).

 

[desmosome]

Yeah, agreed, the transition is way too fast in Lena's case. And there's one more detail that IMO makes Cindy sending Ian her photos more acceptable (for friends) which is the nature of Cindy's photos. Those are not just some private nudes or her dirty selfies, but professional photos that Axel has shot, and Cindy wants Ian's feedback on them to feel good about herself. That level of trust strokes Ian's ego and he oversteps his boundaries but neither interaction is overly flirty or dirty, since both Cindy and Ian try to play innocent and clueless about what they're actually doing which makes their interaction totally believable.

I think what would've improved the scene between Lena and Jeremy is if Lena didn't openly suggest her desire to be sexual with Jeremy, but indeed described how fun/naughty the experience was for her. And perhaps, if she didn't blow him, on the pretext of feeling guilty that she didn't get to finish him, Lena could send him an "inspirational" photo that he could use to remedy that. While still incredibly naughty, it would've been more playful than predatory and there would still be room for Lena to feel guilty about that.

And regarding Jeremy sleeping in Louise's room, I would've instead made it so Lena wanted a "simple peak" to see him nude one more time (just like in Ch 3). And then feeling more horny and cheeky, probably want to touch him one more time (ew, molestation, but nobody has to know, right?). And while she'd be too focused on the act, Jeremy would wake up, and then Lena would either feel very guilty about the act and ask him to keep it a secret, getting the hell out of there, or, resigning herself that she's been caught in the act, give him a solid morning jerkoff (or a blowjob if they already did that at Ivy's place) after which Jeremy and Lena would both feel slightly awkward and unsure where they stand and how the hell they're supposed to deal with Louise / Ian. That I think would fix most of the issues with Lena's character, at least for me. While it would still be fucked up, at least Lena's seduction of Jeremy wouldn't look so planned, but appear like she was fighting a losing battle.

And after that sequence of events, there would be a massive branching point that would determine Lena's resolve to pursue Jeremy (and therefore her priority for Ian / Louise). Either she would act very awkward around Jeremy, trying to ignore what they shared for the sake of her relationship with Ian or loyalty to Louise, or come up with an excuse to keep seeing Jeremy (cue resentment for Louise route which would either lead to NTR or cuckquean, and her refusal to commit to Ian to avoid dealing with guilty desire for Jeremy).

I don't always agree with you on the Jeremy Lena issue, but this one is on point. One caveat is that I want the door open for true NTR down the road after committing (could still be only if you don't go for full Jeremy before commitment).

I find intentional cheating (or "cheating") scenarios very hot, but what I find hotter is this losing battle against her lust scenario. That is essentially what happens with Axel and that scene was fire. Plus, you definitely have a point that Lena being so overtly devious at this stage of the game doesn't quite line up with how she is portrayed at baseline.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Yeah, agreed, the transition is way too fast in Lena's case. And there's one more detail that IMO makes Cindy sending Ian her photos more acceptable (for friends) which is the nature of Cindy's photos. Those are not just some private nudes or her dirty selfies, but professional photos that Axel has shot, and Cindy wants Ian's feedback on them to feel good about herself. That level of trust strokes Ian's ego and he oversteps his boundaries but neither interaction is overly flirty or dirty, since both Cindy and Ian try to play innocent and clueless about what they're actually doing which makes their interaction totally believable.

I think what would've improved the scene between Lena and Jeremy is if Lena didn't openly suggest her desire to be sexual with Jeremy, but indeed described how fun/naughty the experience was for her. And perhaps, if she didn't blow him, on the pretext of feeling guilty that she didn't get to finish him, Lena could send him an "inspirational" photo that he could use to remedy that. While still incredibly naughty, it would've been more playful than predatory and there would still be room for Lena to feel guilty about that.

And regarding Jeremy sleeping in Louise's room, I would've instead made it so Lena wanted a "simple peak" to see him nude one more time (just like in Ch 3). And then feeling more horny and cheeky, probably want to touch him one more time (ew, molestation, but nobody has to know, right?). And while she'd be too focused on the act, Jeremy would wake up, and then Lena would either feel very guilty about the act and ask him to keep it a secret, getting the hell out of there, or, resigning herself that she's been caught in the act, give him a solid morning jerkoff (or a blowjob if they already did that at Ivy's place) after which Jeremy and Lena would both feel slightly awkward and unsure where they stand and how the hell they're supposed to deal with Louise / Ian. That I think would fix most of the issues with Lena's character, at least for me. While it would still be fucked up, at least Lena's seduction of Jeremy wouldn't look so planned, but appear like she was fighting a losing battle.

And after that sequence of events, there would be a massive branching point that would determine Lena's resolve to pursue Jeremy (and therefore her priority for Ian / Louise). Either she would act very awkward around Jeremy, trying to ignore what they shared for the sake of her relationship with Ian or loyalty to Louise, or come up with an excuse to keep seeing Jeremy (cue resentment for Louise route which would either lead to NTR or cuckquean, and her refusal to commit to Ian to avoid dealing with guilty desire for Jeremy).

Yeah, to be clear I don't think the sending of photos in the two scenes are similar. Rather that the previous encounters between Ian/Cindy and Lena/Jeremy pushed the limits between them under the pretext of being something innocent (professional photoshoot / just a game), and that both Cindy and Jeremy then found an excuse to contact Ian and Lena about the innocent parts of those encounters (Cindy had finally gotten the photos from Axel / Jeremy genuinely wondered if Lena had noticed anything about Louise's behaviour), in return giving them a chance to continue the not so innocent interactions while pretending they're not doing anything wrong. Cindy probably asks Ian about his opinion both because she wants to continue their flirt and because she's genuinely interested in his opinion in a slightly more professional way. At least she and Ian can pretend it's the latter, while the exchange between Lena and Jeremy quickly throw all that subtlety overboard.

I also agree about the improvements you mention. When they're texting, I think they have a whole bunch of details they could've picked up on to heat up the interaction while still playing innocent. Lena: "I'm sorry you ended up being dragged into Ivy's crazy dare… But I really needed that money And I made you cum and you admitted you think I'm the hottest, so I guess maybe you didn't mind " Or, even including the sexting: Jeremy: "So, what are you doing?" Lena: "Uhm… I was just taking some pictures for my Stalkfap, now I'm trying to decide which of them I'm gonna share But I'm new to this and still have no idea what my followers actually want to see Haha, sorry but you asked" Jeremy: "I think I have a pretty clear idea about that Just ask if you need some help " (Lena, lying to herself: Is he asking me to send nudes? Well, the last time he saw me nude, it was totally innocent, and that means it would be innocent this time as well… Besides Ivy told me I'm bad at choosing pictures for Stalkfap, and I'm pretty sure Jeremy knows what guys would want to see of me. This is actually just very helpful, and I'm gonna share the pictures on Stalkfap anyway.) And then afterwards: Lena: "Thanks, that was helpful, in a weird way I guess I own you one… Let me know if you ever need help deciding what kind of dick pics girls like " Crowd goes wild when Lena posts the picture Jeremy suggested -> perfect excuse to send Jeremy nudes every time she's gonna post to Stalkfap.

They would still know that what they're doing is wrong, but it would give them the chance to pretend to themselves and each other that it's not. At least certainly to a bigger extent than with the current "here's a picture deep down my throat, that's where I want your cock to be" tone.

Edit: Yeah, kinda wish I'd instead paraphrased how that scene hypothetically could've played out, because now it seems like I'm some kind of aspirational ORS fan fiction writer. I promise I'm not, it just seemed like the easiest way to illustrate it

 

[Dracodadark]

Is it just me or does anyone else want to slap Jeremy. I just cannot stand him as a friend, I mean it’s bone thing to be a player. I just don’t like that if Ian confides in him about Lena he is still willing to go for it, same with Allison, and Emma. The dude has no respect for anyone but himself. I hope we get to beat him in the eventual tournament and even steal Ivy away.

 

[juniorforlife17313]

Jeremy is a man hoe. That is all I want to say famm...But here's my message to Cindy

 

[Prince of Depression]

Wade is a very flawed person, but saying he doesn't show any love towards Cindy isn't a fair statement. It's also not true that he's constantly mistreating her. These are my thoughts on Cindy x Wade relationship:

Not to mention Wade suffering from a deep depression. I feel sorry for this guy and hope Ian as a friend could have option to help him gained a new zest for live.

 

[Deleted member 40068]

Has the WT been updated, or is that still in progress?