VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[stuffygames]

JFC don't even joke about that. It's like year+ of Stan/Billy remakes didn't teach people anything, smh.

I'd also be wary to use the fanart thread as example of some, "vast, untapped possibilities for super-fast art generation". Keep in mind it's effectively a collective result of thousand monkeys from all over the intrawebs banging on thousand AI typerwriters so to speak, and yet those results are not only not many, but they're with very few exceptions just some generic images of a (semi) naked woman done roughly in ORS style and somewhat resembling the game's cast, which NGL, just blend together after a page or two of them. That one picture EK liked stands out because unlike pretty much all of them it's about something more than "here's a girl, standing".

Redoing the whole game was serious not serious. You couldn't just start using AI art in the current game, it would change too drastically. A future game in EK's style made with imperfect AI art would be more consistent and faster to make, probably less stressful too.

I like the art in ORS, a lot could look better and be more consistent, but it does give it charm. The last update seems to have quite a few changes to Lena's look in a lot of the images, not the first time it has happened. It would be interesting that if Lena chose the drugs throughout the game, and smoked, and was a super slut, that she might start looking more haggard deeper into the game. The opposite on the other end where she is a monogamus clean girl. Similar to how Ian gets a few more lines on his mid section and arms if he goes to the gym a lot, but more evident. To me in the last update Lena looks a bit worn out in the new images.

I know you have seen what a couple in the FanArt thread can do on their own, and they aren't spending days doing it. They have been working on it for awhile at this point, and are getting very consistent images now. They can drop an image described to them in minutes. Compare to EK including 30 to 50 non-sprite images (a wild guess that seems close to me) in an update, I would guess a few of days of generating and tweaking images to suit would result in a lot more than that. They wouldn't even have to come up with the scene themselves, so less thinking more prompting.

The good images (there are some not so flattering ones) in the that thread are idealized versions of the current art, smooth and perfect, because that's what the AI knows, the ideal look the masses want. They could be made to not look so perfect, but telling an AI to make something not look as nice can be horrifying (personal experience). It knows what people want, and when you try to tell it that something is too perfect, it struggles with making it less so. The plethora of AI Slop games that pop up show what the base AI is good at, perfect idealized images in a couple of pretty specific styles. 3d rendered games are idealized too, since players want a more perfect world to play in, not the real world. When a dev makes a skin for a model that is not perfect they get dinged for it being ugly.

Personally I would take the overly smooth and perfect, but consistent art over the charming and inconsistent art. Purely because going from one scene to the next when the characters look slightly different can break the storytelling a little. Consistency in AI art takes awhile to get, but someone who isn't a full time or talented artist may never be able to draw consistent characters.

 

[ffive]

I know you have seen what a couple in the FanArt thread can do on their own, and they aren't spending days doing it. They have been working on it for awhile at this point, and are getting very consistent images now. They can drop an image described to them in minutes. Compare to EK including 30 to 50 non-sprite images (a wild guess that seems close to me) in an update, I would guess a few of days of generating and tweaking images to suit would result in a lot more than that. They wouldn't even have to come up with the scene themselves, so less thinking more prompting.

I think you're being way too optimistic here, if you think AI is some sort of magical ticket to produce good images (ones that actually match what the author wants, as opposed to AI getting a prompt and paining whatever, that has little to do with what the prompt asked for) in manner of minutes and whole updates worth of them in just a few days.

You only need to take a look at some of the AI-based games (the ones that aren't just the latest NTR phone game cash grabs with a dozen images in 0.1 release and "please support my Patreon if you want more") and how it can still takes them multiple months to get an update out, that's nowhere near the level of complexity ORS gives, so it's not like they particularly struggle with scripting and writing. This is often combined with complaining/excuses how the generation is actually hard and won't people just stop bitching the next update was delayed for the third time, already.

 

[scatbordviking]

anybody recommend other 2dcg games with girls who look similar to Emma?

 

[stuffygames]

I think you're being way too optimistic here, if you think AI is some sort of magical ticket to produce good images (ones that actually match what the author wants, as opposed to AI getting a prompt and paining whatever, that has little to do with what the prompt asked for) in manner of minutes and whole updates worth of them in just a few days.

You only need to take a look at some of the AI-based games (the ones that aren't just the latest NTR phone game cash grabs with a dozen images in 0.1 release and "please support my Patreon if you want more") and how it can still takes them multiple months to get an update out, that's nowhere near the level of complexity ORS gives, so it's not like they particularly struggle with scripting and writing. This is often combined with complaining/excuses how the generation is actually hard and won't people just stop bitching the next update was delayed for the third time, already.

I think a couple of the people in that thread have put in the work on at least the female characters to get them consistent, creating a scene on par with what is already in ORS wouldn't be hard, or very time consuming for someone who already has the experience with it. I didn't imply it was a cure all, or everyone should adopt it. I've watched the progress of that thread for more than a year, and the AI only recently got to the level I could support it as an alternative.

Like anything, learning to create AI images to fulfill what you want takes time, the people adopting it for other games that aren't just cash grabs are in the learning curve, along with coding and writing. It might take them a bit to get up to speed. I don't think there are many professional developers making these games, and few do it as their only source of income. Delays, excuses, burnout, it happens all the time and games get abandonded. People clamoring for more more more ends up being too stressful for some.

I don't like AI as a whole, it's creepy at a minimum in most applications, but for something like ORS or something in the future, it could be a big plus for someone who has already admitted they are not an artist, and a plus for the players who could enjoy more images/scenes. It feels to me you are against it at all costs, I'm only pointing out how it could be useful, not trying to convince anyone it's the only way forward. If I said Stan should become the MC because he is more manly than Ian I could understand you defending not changing a thing with this much enthusiasm . AI art isn't gonna be in ORS, the look that has been developed in the FanArt thread is too nice, it would be too big a change, and I don't want that much of a change. But I don't want to keep arguing about what is possible, when niether of us know exactly how it would pan out.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

For Ian MMA fight, is it better to have mastered grappling or striking, or to have a balance between the two? I've noticed that if I only focus on grappling, then in the fight Ian literally can't do anything standing up lol

Master striking before the MMA match, and then win the MMA match with a submission technique. This ensures that after the match, you have mastered both (winning MMA match gives you enough submission skill points that's equivalent to choosing the "master submission" option).

 

[sluttyjackie]

How can u get the threesome with Lena and Holly at the beach???

 

[Blurpee69]

For Ian MMA fight, is it better to have mastered grappling or striking, or to have a balance between the two? I've noticed that if I only focus on grappling, then in the fight Ian literally can't do anything standing up lol

Master striking before the MMA match, and then win the MMA match with a submission technique. This ensures that after the match, you have mastered both (winning MMA match gives you enough submission skill points that's equivalent to choosing the "master submission" option).

I mean... varpep has an entire written guide for the fights and for how to master both Striking and Grappling. Why not just use it?

https://f95zone.to/threads/our-red-string-ch-14-1-3-beta-eva-kiss.48813/post-14497061

 

[GibboBtw]

Anybody ever had a looping permanent dialogue timer after this dialogue with Ian and bad Jess?

Spoiler

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He just keeps going...I mean, he's even now just showing up in the next scene where I'm controlling Lena and SAYING THE SAME SHIT.

Spoiler: WTF IS THIS

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Little help? Anybody...

 

[stuffygames]

Never seen that, but I usually turn off the timed choices in the options, might try that and see if it cleans that up.

 

[Tierra_Azul]

Anybody ever had a looping permanent dialogue timer after this dialogue with Ian and bad Jess?

Little help? Anybody...

Did you save a game in alpha, then continue in the beta version? Bugs like this often occur when loading a alpha save in a beta or final (or beta to final). I always save in final versions to reduce risks of gamebreaking/annoying bugs.

 

[DatGuy20]

Yes, the sex is generally worth their crazy antics.



Ah yes, a pool party occurs, with the set up of helping the main character enter the industry, there is sex. Both allude to porn industry.

Literally the same set up in both GGGB and ORS here.

Wow, so much different.

Why yes if you remove quite literally all the important details from something that has similarities you can make 2 things sound the same.

You're so intelligent and not at all disingenuous.

If you're wondering why I'm calling him out, here's an example of his logic: if I can describe almost every fruit using the same vague descriptors, they must all be the same thing! A sweet food that's smooth on the outside and soft inside that you can eat with your hands and has seeds. Wow an Apple and a Tomato must be the same thing!

 

[DaLuke2]

I think it's meant to come across as cringy because the path that Lena is undertaking is just not something she would genuinely do. If you look back to Ashley in the GGGB game, you'll equally find moments of cringe and second hand embarrassment. The point is that it shows the character has degraded themselves to such an extent that they end up being beyond saving.

That moment is basically Lena admitting to the players that she's gone beyond the point of no return, she's more and more like Ivy and is beginning to adopt even Ivy's cringy sex moments.

That's how I see it, and it's fair if people call me a 'bad story' defender...But I feel like it makes sense from that point.

Not saying anything about repetitive art though. It makes sense why it would be, even if I don't like it. (It's not done using the typical RenPy models, it's art that has to be drawn and commissioned: way more expensive and way more time spent doing it.)

The key quote in your post is:

"it is not sth that Lena would genuinely do".

That is the EXACT problem.

Everything on the slut path since Chapter 10 sounds fake.

You can turn it around any way you want, the plain truth is that EK just screwed it big time.

 

[GibboBtw]

Never seen that, but I usually turn off the timed choices in the options, might try that and see if it cleans that up.

Well that'll do for now, thanks.

I just now need to be aware that, if I ever turn that option back on and reload this run. Just be prepared for Ian to appear out of nowhere and say "I don't know" and then vanish into the ether on repeat...

Did you save a game in alpha, then continue in the beta version? Bugs like this often occur when loading a alpha save in a beta or final (or beta to final). I always save in final versions to reduce risks of gamebreaking/annoying bugs.

I have no idea when this save originated. But thanks for the tip. I'll remember it in future.

 

[PilotLara]

PilotLara I think I came across a little logic/continuation error that may have slipped through the cracks, as it´s from chapter 7.

During Wade´s birthday party at Blazer, when Ian and Wade find Cindy talking to Axel, Ian monologues about "a tall blonde guy, I had seem him here before, talking to Ivy", and then proceeds to talk to him, as if he doesn´t know who he is.

In this scenario he had in fact already met him twice before, and they were already introduced by name. That evening at the Bar with Jeremy and Jess, where he showed up with Seymour. And later, after the live drawing in Molly´s cafe Ian also talks to Lena about having met her ex and what to do about him. (Lena and Ian are not a couple in this run, if that matters)

While at it, also a small textual error re: the MMA tournament. There´s two occasions where you can let Wen explain the rules. Wen tells you it´s three rounds per fight, and you can win a fight by winning 2 of 3 rounds, KO, etc... but the actual fights are in fact only 2 rounds, right?

I'll investigate

 

[ffive]

He just keeps going...I mean, he's even now just showing up in the next scene where I'm controlling Lena and SAYING THE SAME SHIT.

Clearly a feature for people who complained they don't want whole update only with Lena's PoV and without any Ian.

 

[Logan3000x]

We need a lena cuckqueen path where chad Ian has to fight and get his hoes back after the guilt arc (current arc)

 

[mrcakefrosting]

Does anyone have a save they can share for the sexless cuckold route? Or is there a clear path to end up there?

 

[jduk]

Does anyone have a save they can share for the sexless cuckold route? Or is there a clear path to end up there?

indeed. Can Ian be a cuck for Alison and Holly too? Or only Lena?

 

[robs1234]

indeed. Can Ian be a cuck for Alison and Holly too? Or only Lena?

for Lena only, maybe for Alison in the future, speaking of this, what happened to the satisfying points with Alison, if anyone know until like ep 7 you can take + or - on these points, did it result to something ?

 

[varpep]

Does anyone have a save they can share for the sexless cuckold route? Or is there a clear path to end up there?

It's in one of my saves here. Page 22 I believe.