desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
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I may be reading too much into the MC's inner monologues, but I think how 'good' a guy the MC is will be one of the main themes of the game. He chose to work at the Carnation Club, but he did that before he knew much about how the place worked. It's also not clear just badly he needed that money Chuck offered him.

It's obviously a Faustian deal in retrospect, but that still doesn't tell us whether the MC was a good guy who made a mistake or a bad guy who no longer needs to act otherwise. We'll decide that ourselves based on how we make the MC respond to the situations he finds himself in. That's my guess, anyway.

I do think that makes the game a bit niche, though. People who flat out hate dark themes have plenty of games where the MC isn't helping bad people exploit desperate girls. People who find dark themes a guilty pleasure would prefer games that don't put quite as much emphasis on the guilty part. It's only those of us who either revel in the darkness or relish the chance to deliberately refute it that get something unique out of this game.

It's somewhat similar with your point about sharing the LIs. NTR (or anything remotely approaching it) is already a bit of a niche; it's a very polarizing topic and the majority dislike it. This game has enough of it to be a hard pass for everyone who despises NTR, but there's not enough to be a slam dunk for those who love NTR, either.



Rosalind isn't in debt to a bank, she's in debt to organized crime. The penalty for non-payment to them is bad enough that I don't consider her participation voluntary. Veronica's would be... except for the detail that the only reason she's in so much debt is that Samson sabotaged her business specifically to force her into the contest. How is that meaningfully different from extortion?
Pretty much agree with everything here. This game is walking it's own path. It doesn't really fit into the common categories that we are accustomed to. Many games these days tries to follow the same paths laid out before them. College slice of life stuff, harem builders, NTR, corruption, incest romance tropey games, trainers, etc etc.

Here, we have a rather dark premise of a powerful organization taking advantage of desperate women. However, it's not so simple when you look deeper into it. Lesser writers might have taken this set up and gone for the low hanging fruit of corruption/slave/domination type of story (I am not saying those are bad, it's my preferred tags actually). With Pale Carnations, we see so much depth in all the characters and how the story unfolds. The beauty of this script is that all characters are behaving in a believable manner in accordance to their motivations, personality, and circumstances. This is why it's so convincing. While the main plot line is on the dark side, there is a surprising amount of heart at it's core. There are some lowkey humor in it too.

I don't think there is a single cookie cutter character that fits snugly into a cliche.
Ian is a damn good friend if there ever was one, but obviously he has a rather cynical view of women. There are moments where his humanity shows through like when he interacts with MC's mom or when he talks about the priority being the carnations' well being. Doesn't mean he will pass on the bukkake ceremony or something.

Boss Lady is a femme fatale and is extremely ruthless. But she has shown some masochistic streaks during one of the games. Did she though? How much of it was an act? Maybe it was entirely faked. Maybe it was real, and it was a hint at some possibilities way down the road. She's a hard one to read and that is her strength.

The father of the biker chick is clearly evil at first glance. He leverages her mom's medical bills to make her work there. What's his angle? It's a really horrible thing to do to his daughter, but he does seem to care about her well being in his own way. He watches her concert incognito. Is he just keeping tabs or does he just want to see her doing what she likes? Is making her work there some misguided attempts to bring her back into his life after walking away?

Rosalind is the most sympathetic character here. She seems a bit timid at first, but she has a surprisingly strong resolve to make a better life for her daughter. She even tries to seduce the MC to get an advantage (something she is clearly not accustomed to doing). But is it all an act? We know for sure shes agreeing to be MC's plaything as a means to an end. However, she is clearly enjoying it to some extent. Maybe even just subconsciously.


I could go on about every character really. The way the MC is handled is especially commendable. The MC's voice is a hard one to get right in a choice heavy game because there is usually some common text that plays in between choices. In many games, the darker choices are wildly out of sync with how the MC usually acts... cough.. Radiant.. cough. I didn't notice any such problem here. A large part of it is because the MC's baseline persona is presented as neutral/grey, which is something most games with good/evil choices fails at accomplishing. Another reason is that there are no truly dark or sinister choices (at least so far). He can indulge and take advantage, but it is in line with his job description. All the choices are believable for any normal person to make given the circumstances. He isn't suddenly having a burst of psychopathy like some other games. Most importantly, the MC is a competently normal person, which makes him a great avatar. Lot's of games feature some "average joe" as a bumbling idiot way out of his depth. Others might show a full on sociopath who may or may not be aware of his condition. Some games offer the God MC that rolled 18 in all stats. Here, we see an actual average guy who has his issues but tries to make optimal choices and doesn't buckle under pressure.

As for the sharing and stuff, it probably takes a bit of refined taste to fully appreciate this. It's not a typical story revolving around the MC. The MC is just a cog in the wheel just like everyone else.

I must sound like a fangay after this text dump :whistle:
 

Retromancer

Member
Aug 14, 2018
404
588
It's one thing for a business to fail, but it's quite another to undermine that business continually until the owner takes the specific action you want.
Again, not trying to start an argument here, but how many female (or male) business owners have been forced out of business, through whatever reason, then said "hey, I'll sell my body to keep the business"? Not many. If the business fails, it fails. There are bankruptcy laws, creditors take the hit, etc. After Felicia, Veronica is the weakest one to claim that she was "forced" into it. Maybe this is why I find her character less compelling than others. Your point about Rosalind is spot on, which is why I said we need to find out more info about her backstory. Good commentary on this game, even if I disagree on some points
 
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TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
786
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I can believe that. Hell, I'm worried the game will be too dark for me. So far it's done a remarkable job balancing the darkness with just the right amount of light, but I definitely worry that might change. Which would be pretty damn depressing and makes me nervous about supporting the game. :( But I'm probably going to do so anyway, because it's clearly got my attention.
I can guarantee the game won't turn into some 100% miserably bleak, soul-crushing affair. Especially in the endings where you successfully direct the player character away from the club.

It's important to both GIL and I that the game strikes a palatable balance between light and dark moments. The scales may tip in the latter's direction at certain points, but we really do place an emphasis on keeping an equilibrium. If you're fine with how things have been up to this point in the story, I would ***guess*** that future plot developments won't leave you shell-shocked.

Full asshole, fuck-my-conscience mode might hit differently though.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,366
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Again, not trying to start an argument here, but how many female (or male) business owners have been forced out of business, through whatever reason, then said "hey, I'll sell my body to keep the business"? Not many. If the business fails, it fails. There are bankruptcy laws, creditors take the hit, etc. After Felicia, Veronica is the weakest one to claim that she was "forced" into it. Maybe this is why I find her character less compelling than others. Your point about Rosalind is spot on, which is why I said we need to find out more info about her backstory. Good commentary on this game, even if I disagree on some points
I definitely see your point and I'm not trying to start an argument either. But I think you're missing the key point in your phrasing: most people wouldn't sell their body to fund their business for the obvious reason that selling their body would be effectively become their new business. I'd prefer not think about how many people decided to sell their bodies when they lost a better source of income, and I definitely wouldn't classify that situation as "voluntary."

Is Veronica in that dire a straight? Unclear. We're explicitly told that the gym is all Veronica has, so even if she walked away from her dream she might still desperately need money. I guess you could say it was foolish of Veronica to invest so much of her money in her dream, but that's an indictment on her business acumen or her idealism (though again, we know she was actually sabotaged). If she's at the point where she's worried about making ends meet once she files for bankruptcy, however she got there doesn't change the fact that she's still be offering her body under duress (at least in my book).

Also, just for the record, Veronica isn't the one claiming she was forced into it. I am. She'd say this was indeed her choice (just a really distasteful one). But I'm saying we know she made that choice because the people offering it had invalidated every other option available to her. To me, it's like claiming someone 'choose' the card the magician made pick because they didn't walk off the stage entirely.

I guess you could say that makes this a case of fraud rather than extortion, but either way it's well below the standard I would use to judge proper consent.


I can guarantee the game won't turn into some 100% miserably bleak, soul-crushing affair. Especially in the endings where you successfully direct the player character away from the club.

It's important to both GIL and I that the game strikes a palatable balance between light and dark moments. The scales may tip in the latter's direction at certain points, but we really do place an emphasis on keeping an equilibrium. If you're fine with how things have been up to this point in the story, I would ***guess*** that future plot developments won't leave you shell-shocked.

Full asshole, fuck-my-conscience mode might hit differently though.
I'm happy to hear that. I find the idea that relentless darkness maximizes tension exasperating.

I wouldn't say I'm fine with how things are up to this point; I'm a big softy at heart. But I see the possibility that, as Jacob might say, the MC could make something, in some way, better than it would have been had he not been there. That's ultimately the bar the game needs to clear for me. So here's hoping!

If the MC also has the option to make things much, much worse... well, the choice will be that much more meaningful. :)
 
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SharkVampire

Active Member
Sep 12, 2018
679
1,209
I put my 2 cents about patron support. I think 2020 was pretty hard year for everyone, and a lot of people got hit by it. Some people lost job, others couldn't find new one, so their wallets are pretty thin - that's is the one reason why there is not so much patrons. I'm also would support this guys when my situation gets better. As for dark theme, I seen here at least two games much more darker than this one and they have not less if not more patrons. I think the second reason, is because this game pretty young, give it more time and numbers will grow. Also if devs want additional support I think placing banner on the main page, where it called "trending games" would help.
 

Watcher X

Active Member
Dec 26, 2017
756
2,365
I put my 2 cents about patron support. I think 2020 was pretty hard year for everyone, and a lot of people got hit by it. Some people lost job, others couldn't find new one, so their wallets are pretty thin - that's is the one reason why there is not so much patrons. I'm also would support this guys when my situation gets better. As for dark theme, I seen here at least two games much more darker than this one and they have not less if not more patrons. I think the second reason, is because this game pretty young, give it more time and numbers will grow. Also if devs want additional support I think placing banner on the main page, where it called "trending games" would help.
I agree that the last year has been difficult financially for many people, but I'll just make this point.

There is another game on this site, which the mods invoked Rule 7 to basically shut the thread down due to questionable content, and it now has over 1000 subscribers in less than a year. This is despite having a shitty story, less than average graphics and boring generic dialogue.

If a crap game like that can get 1000 subs in like 10 months, then its a crime this game cannot at least match it. It maybe as others have said that a lot of people are not comfortable unless it is a harem game where they are certain to be the only ones fucking everything. If that is true that would be a shame, as it leads to repetitive, boring games where devs are reluctant to take risks.
 
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desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
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Has this game ever been featured on the front page? I believe that works as a nice boost in exposure.
 

Theba

Newbie
Jun 24, 2019
43
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I have to agree, Pale Carnations is underrated, considering what it visually offers to players + not to mention what it offers in writing department, its top notch. Yeah, it might be a "turn off" to some considering the games nature. Personally i'm so full of these "vanilla" harem games, what are everywhere. PC is like a nice summer breeze in the lewd gaming world, for me at least. I just think this is a genuine gem, that not many have found yet.

Has this game ever been featured on the front page? I believe that works as a nice boost in exposure.
No and it should be there, it would deserve it.
 
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sunaboz

Member
Donor
Jun 25, 2018
467
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I agree that the last year has been difficult financially for many people, but I'll just make this point.

There is another game on this site, which the mods invoked Rule 7 to basically shut the thread down due to questionable content, and it now has over 1000 subscribers in less than a year. This is despite having a shitty story, less than average graphics and boring generic dialogue.

If a crap game like that can get 1000 subs in like 10 months, then its a crime this game cannot at least match it. It maybe as others have said that a lot of people are not comfortable unless it is a harem game where they are certain to be the only ones fucking everything. If that is true that would be a shame, as it leads to repetitive, boring games where devs are reluctant to take risks.
You can nominate it here: https://f95zone.to/threads/featured-games-slider.20804/
 

MoarDakka123

Active Member
Jul 7, 2020
926
1,237
Another trick to find the diamonds in the rough, is to filter on weighted ratings every so often. This game comes way up on page one. I have a bias against Illusion games but I finally played this yesterday and couldn't walk away from it. The quality here is incredible.

https://f95zone.to/latest/#/cat=games/page=1/sort=rating
Hey, that's a good trick to know, thanks! Hadn't even occurred to me to change the settings, I usually just check Latest Updates daily and leave it at that.
 
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sunaboz

Member
Donor
Jun 25, 2018
467
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Another trick to find the diamonds in the rough, is to filter on weighted ratings every so often. This game comes way up on page one. I have a bias against Illusion games but I finally played this yesterday and couldn't walk away from it. The quality here is incredible.

https://f95zone.to/latest/#/cat=games/page=1/sort=rating
That's how I've found this gem (while also selecting best tags for me which usually filter out faggotry/furry/loli/shota stuff - hint: add "vaginal sex" and "milf" filters or just "vaginal sex").
 
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jenosmaverick

Newbie
Feb 10, 2020
56
35
I can guarantee the game won't turn into some 100% miserably bleak, soul-crushing affair. Especially in the endings where you successfully direct the player character away from the club.

soooooo there's a felicia happy ending that don't let her join the club? maybe i shouldn't let her win the next games then :eek:
 
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