VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ffive]

Actually mina getting mingled with her ex's bff is the least of the inconsistencies in her case, you forgot to mention that bucket list of hers, it came out of no fucking where, at one point she is so timid and shy that we have to gain bi curious points with her to get a possible future threesome, and then suddenly she through a bucket list full of depraved and "out of question" dirty things (for someone like her).

Mina is ostensibly timid and shy mostly according to Ian who doesn't really know her all that well because he doesn't seem to have much interest in actually listening to what a girl may be saying.

The bucket list is something Mina simply didn't share with anyone (or at least not with her now ex-boyfriend) but we also know that she watches porn (again, weirding Ian out because, you know, a girl watching porn, inconceivable) so it's not like her interest in sex comes from nowhere.

Also, nothing really odd or timid and shy about developing one's interest in the same sex in early twenties.

 

[Wilhelms]

Elon Musk too does dumb things sometimes (oftentimes?), like saying he's the #1 POE player while he secretly paid someone to play his account, but he's one of the richest man on earth

Yeah but he glitches because of his nueralink and does dumb shit after that, it's a side effect of that chip.

 

[Wilhelms]

Once again, bringing Elias into it, is mostly because Kath has started her play to gain sole leadership of PC. It is actually Kath who is the more overconfident compared to Felicia.

Yeah but she's always shown as a little reckless in what she does with the carnations and what she can do to gain sole leadership of the club, while she can do stupid things because of these reasons that's totally within her character. And anyway at least she has a clear direction and better plan than Felicia, Felicia is just going with the wind while risking everything she has.

her mother and Felicia are still on great terms.

You sure Felicia even lying about being on better terms with her mother? All she said was that she contacts her 2 times a month on "phone" and she mentioned her mom never accepted her money. This is on good terms?

 

[Wilhelms]

@TD1900 will this arrangement of choosing a single carnation continue till the last exhibition or will we have to face disappointment by unavoidable humiliation of all of the carnations, I have selected Felicia to enjoy the punishments so far, the other two carnations are off limit to the patrons in my playthrough and I would like for this to continue till the very end or do you have some other plans?

Btw anyone have an answer for this because seems like TD1900 doesn't want to disclose this information to his vanilla player base. If no one have an answer I will have to assume that all carnations will be on plate for the patrons in the last exhibition, no matter who wins and who's on the last place.

 

[DarkLords00]

Mina is ostensibly timid and shy mostly according to Ian who doesn't really know her all that well because he doesn't seem to have much interest in actually listening to what a girl may be saying.

The bucket list is something Mina simply didn't share with anyone (or at least not with her now ex-boyfriend) but we also know that she watches porn (again, weirding Ian out because, you know, a girl watching porn, inconceivable) so it's not like her interest in sex comes from nowhere.

Also, nothing really odd or timid and shy about developing one's interest in the same sex in early twenties.

The most irrealistic part about this game tbqh

I really do not believe a person like Ian who leads that kind of lifestyle would feel weird at all about his girlfriend watching porn, I guess one could make an argument it's due to childhood insecurites I still wouldn't buy it but that's just me

Actually mina getting mingled with her ex's bff is the least of the inconsistencies in her case, you forgot to mention that bucket list of hers, it came out of no fucking where, at one point she is so timid and shy that we have to gain bi curious points with her to get a possible future threesome, and then suddenly she through a bucket list full of depraved and "out of question" dirty things (for someone like her).

It feels like devs need her to be like this (but it's not her character or it shouldn't be) for a possible club master/(or at least continue as a carnations caretaker guy and also disclose it to mina) ending, because with this inconsistency in her character she might like that revelation.

Also can anyone explain what she is saying here, I have a vague idea(s) about what she is saying but I am not sure, not a native English speaker.
View attachment 4817951

Btw it kinda made me dislike her a little because even though she ready to do so many perverted things to do with the MC but it was so out of character for her that I questioned if she is the same mina that I liked before this revelation.

On the bucket list topic, I've never found it all that inconsistent or that it came "out of nowhere" since from all the previous interactions Edwin had with her can end up being a bit on the sexual or foreplay side (Like the audition scene practice or the King Game's at Ian's apartment) . I do believe she hadn't started to properly act on those desires as of pretty recently mainly because deep down she probably knew she didn't trust Ian for any kind of longterm serious relationship and only continued to be her girlrfriend in part do to pride (due to her Mother's relatinship background) and because of sunk coast fallacy despite being some things she genuinely liked about him.

On that scene however, my personal interpretation always was that she hadn't properly reacted to the betrayal mainly for two reasons:

The first one being, she was already very aware of Ian's constant cheating and lies, she put up with it mainly because it was her first serious relationship (At least that was Edwin's impression of it) so when it all came crashing down and she literally couldn't dismiss it anymore she gets very emotional for a bit but then shuts off, due to the fact that she has been dealing with her cheating the whole time.

The second one I believe is because she never took the relationship with Ian that seriously. Don't get me wrong, I do think she made an effort but it seems to me that she, being smarter than she looks, deep down knew she didn't want anything long-term with him (or at least this version of him).

If you don't like her or consider her a bad person, that's perfectly fine. She has her bad and good parts, just like all characters in this game. Personally to me, she seems the most moral of the bunch (When it comes to the girls) but that could change with any update obviously.

Spoiler: Since we are on the topic of Mina...

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[Beduin123]

Now as I have said what she did is definitely dumb, but what if that's who she actually is, a dumb slut, who had it easy so far and this is where she will be snapped. And this might just be how she is written for the game like dev has already stated

Yes, but what are all those numerous scenes during the exhibition, in her hideout etc are for? They all imply that she has higher than average intellect and deep artistic personality. Doesn't match in my mind with an image of a dumb slut.

One minute she is a highly sophisticated and very intelligent woman, next moment she is sex crazed dumb slut who cannot calculate the consequences of her actions. And let me remind you, her whole career of a successful gold digger was based on her intelligence, manipulative skills and ability to calculate the consequences of her actions.

Sorry, but I cannot buy the "dumb slut" narrative. As she written, she is obviously one the most complicated and intelligent women in the game except (or not) maybe Kathleen. So, either she is truly playing 4D chess or she suffered a sudden brain damage when decided to go for the Exhibition.

Now take this with a grain of salt because this is just a bad theory but I think Kathleen herself will expose her to her husband because I don't know why but after playing the 2nd exhibition I am getting a feeling that Kathleen isn't gonna let the carnations go anywhere

Well, I think it is not a "bad theory" but a pretty obvious thing. Kathleen always digs a lot of information on the Carnations and invitation of Elias to the club cannot be a coincidence.

I am getting a feeling that Kathleen isn't gonna let the carnations go anywhere (might be just me or the game deliberately want you to feel that way) , seems like she will do everything that she can do to prevent the carnations from going even after the exhibitions has ended.

A few people here have expressed their opinion before that the Club is where Felicia shall belong to after the Exhibition. Maybe as a premium house girl. I can also see Rosie perfectly fitting in. She is basically the same as Lucy but softer and less ambitious. Veronica IMO is the most alien case, but if properly broken, can fit in the club too.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Exposing felicia to her husband would screw up the exhibition. Why would Kathleen do that? She might threaten, even put pressure, but she wouldn't expose any of the girls, it doesn't help the exhibition at all

 

[Silegy]

Elon Musk too does dumb things sometimes (oftentimes?), like saying he's the #1 POE player while he secretly paid someone to play his account, but he's one of the richest man on earth

Right? Ngl, scrolling through the last few pages felt like a document on lofe on different planet. Looked to me like a lot of people here are judging the situation and people involved based on the regular everyday people they know and/or what they'd do in a given situation.

I can also see Rosie perfectly fitting in. She is basically the same as Lucy but softer and less ambitious.

While it is my dream ending that while Rose is working off her debt after the competition, we get married and she remains in the club, I think that while she has the determination to power through this ordeal to salvage her situation, she takes no joy from it and wouldn't want to remain in this line of work longer than necessary. And I think it would be very difficult to write such development in a convincing manner.

Which is another reason to let us marry Andrea. Have an option for those of us with a weakness for working girls.
Plus she totally needs to have a baby, so why not with us.


Edit: Speaking of endings, has anybody considered Kitty-Kat? Get a nice little Epstein-Maxwell type of relationship going.

 

[Wilhelms]

Exposing felicia to her husband would screw up the exhibition. Why would Kathleen do that? She might threaten, even put pressure, but she wouldn't expose any of the girls, it doesn't help the exhibition at all

By the end, Exhibition might get screwed in more than one ways.

But anyway i myself said it's highly unlikely.

 

[dolfe67]

The most irrealistic part about this game tbqh

I really do not believe a person like Ian who leads that kind of lifestyle would feel weird at all about his girlfriend watching porn, I guess one could make an argument it's due to childhood insecurites I still wouldn't buy it but that's just me

Take this forum for instance, you would think the perverts here are pretty open-minded but there is a lot of whining about lesbianism, ntr or any kink they don't like

 

[Beduin123]

I think that while she has the determination to power through this ordeal to salvage her situation, she takes no joy from it and wouldn't want to remain in this line of work longer than necessary.

I bet half of the house girls, including aforementioned Lucy don't enjoy working in the club. But that kind of job sucks in, I guess. Easy money and quite good one. For example, the new girl Nicolette. The side character's guide literally says about her: "This poor girl’s showing you what’s gonna happen to Rosalind if she doesn’t win the competition".

Rosie doesn't strike me as a particularly strong willed or very intelligent woman. She is kind and has good soul but that's it. Of all three Carnations she is the most likely to make it into the house girls and get stuck there until there is the demand for her. Even if the debt is paid, she doesn't have good job and has a child to care for. Pretty much like the MC's mom.

As I mentioned before, the least likely candidate to remain in the club after the Exhibition is Veronica. She is stubborn, determined and most importantly lesbian

 

[Kameri]

I really hope we get more scenes with Dahlia—I've rewatched that sauna scene way too many times.

 

[Maccabbee]

I bet half of the house girls, including aforementioned Lucy don't enjoy working in the club. But that kind of job sucks in, I guess. Easy money and quite good one. For example, the new girl Nicolette. The side character's guide literally says about her: "This poor girl’s showing you what’s gonna happen to Rosalind if she doesn’t win the competition".

Rosie doesn't strike me as a particularly strong willed or very intelligent woman. She is kind and has good soul but that's it. Of all three Carnations she is the most likely to make it into the house girls and get stuck there until there is the demand for her. Even if the debt is paid, she doesn't have good job and has a child to care for. Pretty much like the MC's mom.

As I mentioned before, the least likely candidate to remain in the club after the Exhibition is Veronica. She is stubborn, determined and most importantly lesbian

You're acting like any of them have choices. This is an organized crime operation backed by the government. They own all the girls, including the Carnations. Once the mob gets their hooks into most people, they can never escape.

 

[Silegy]

But that kind of job sucks in, I guess. Easy money and quite good one. Even if the debt is paid, she doesn't have good job and has a child to care for. Pretty much like the MC's mom.

Counterpoint: she doesn't need to make big money once this immediate problem is resolved. Especially in case she ends up with MC-kun. She can work at a supermarket or something.

(EDIT: My queen needs not to work at all lest she wants to, I'd be honoured to provide for her. ❤ )

As I mentioned before, the least likely candidate to remain in the club after the Exhibition is Veronica. She is stubborn, determined and most importantly lesbian

That's actually not important at all. Lots of lesbian girls do "straight" work in the sex industry.

 

[Wilhelms]

I bet half of the house girls, including aforementioned Lucy don't enjoy working in the club. But that kind of job sucks in, I guess. Easy money and quite good one. For example, the new girl Nicolette. The side character's guide literally says about her: "This poor girl’s showing you what’s gonna happen to Rosalind if she doesn’t win the competition".

Rosie doesn't strike me as a particularly strong willed or very intelligent woman. She is kind and has good soul but that's it. Of all three Carnations she is the most likely to make it into the house girls and get stuck there until there is the demand for her. Even if the debt is paid, she doesn't have good job and has a child to care for. Pretty much like the MC's mom.

As I mentioned before, the least likely candidate to remain in the club after the Exhibition is Veronica. She is stubborn, determined and most importantly lesbian

Out of all the carnations I think Rosalind is the least to continue that line of work after winning because she has a decent enough job for raising a "single" child and she's the most firm in her decisions, putting up with her husband for that much time is a proof of her firmness of decision. She's also the most "down to earth" person out of them, she only wants her debt paid.

I agree with your views on Veronica though.

Also logically developers of this game are bound to set the winning girls free after the exhibitions, they can give an optional ending where based on player decisions winning carnation can continue as a house girl (unlikely though) but they definitely can't steal the players from having the satisfaction of freeing these damsels in distress free of their misery.

 

[Beduin123]

You're acting like any of them have choices. This is an organized crime operation backed by the government. They own all the girls, including the Carnations. Once the mob gets their hooks into most people, they can never escape.

Initially I responded to a comment which implied that only those girls who like working in this industry work in the club. While I partially agree with your point, you go to another extreme suggesting that all the girls are basically slaves.

They are in fact, elite prostitutes who work there because the money is very good. Which doesn't exclude the possibility that some of them have to pay their debt, like Rosalind in the future, or bound by other circumstances.

Out of all the carnations I think Rosalind is the least to continue that line of work after winning because she has a decent enough job for raising a "single" child and she's the most firm in her decisions, putting up with her husband for that much time is a proof of her firmness of decision.

Don't forget about her debt and also the fact that she put up with her shit of a husband is a sign of her meekness, not her strength. She is one of the softest girls in the club. And her job doesn't pay that well, especially considering that she has to raise a child.

 

[ffive]

Don't forget about her debt and also the fact that she put up with her shit of a husband is a sign of her meekness, not her strength. She is one of the softest girls in the club. And her job doesn't pay that well, especially considering that she has to raise a child.

Rose has gone as far as sent her daughter away from home to hide the fact she's engaging in questionable sex work. To think she'd just casually stay as a whore at sex club, suddenly not caring about that aspect of her life anymore, is pretty much delusional.

The fact she is raising a child is especially the reason she wouldn't be okay with it. She didn't prostitute herself earlier despite her job not paying that well, it was never really a factor.

 

[Maccabbee]

Initially I responded to a comment which implied that only those girls who like working in this industry work in the club. While I partially agree with your point, you go to another extreme suggesting that all the girls are basically slaves.

They are in fact, elite prostitutes who work there because the money is very good. Which doesn't exclude the possibility that some of them have to pay their debt, like Rosalind in the future, or bound by other circumstances.



Don't forget about her debt and also the fact that she put up with her shit of a husband is a sign of her meekness, not her strength. She is one of the softest girls in the club. And her job doesn't pay that well, especially considering that she has to raise a child.

I love how you briefly agree with my point about the very real facts about being involved in organized crime, then miss that point completely. You're so wrong-headed and full of yourself and your opinions, and always are just wrong.

Yes, keeping their indentured servants happy increases their performance. Not all the house girls are happy, and clearly show it, previous carnations included. They are compensated, sure, and well. If they try an leave, they will find out that they can't. They can't even go to the authorities, because the authorities are in on it. People have disappeared, do you honestly think they escaped? They're either being used for medical experiments or are buried in a swamp somewhere. If they're not slaves, they're not far off from it. Pretty birds in a gilded cage.

 

[Wilhelms]

Take Rosalind not leaving her husband as her doing the right thing no matter the consequences, she is a very self righteous women and that trait of her makes her do reckless things (like when she slapped Kathleen), once she gets out of her debt she's gonna bail, her continuing as house girl after winning is just someone's pure fantasy and totally out of character for someone like her.

And her job doesn't pay that well, especially considering that she has to raise a child.

When was it hinted that her job isn't enough for her child if you are just assuming it then veronicas business is a pitfal too, she can pour the money she gets from the exhibition into her business, but she could very much still be in loses because of her gym membership requirements/low memberships vs the maintenance costs and monthly bills for such a large place.

 

[Turret]

You sure Felicia even lying about being on better terms with her mother? All she said was that she contacts her 2 times a month on "phone" and she mentioned her mom never accepted her money. This is on good terms?

Considering that "I search their backgrounds thoroughly" Kathleen was convinced Felicia had no contact with her old life anymore, yes (and considering the distances involved keeping contact forthnightly is not bad, there are people living closer together who have contact only at holidays. So yes, Felicia still has good terms with her mom)! It is canon that Kathleen is very good at checking backgrounds, but she was completely blindsided here. And it is not the only case were she completely miscalculated concerning Felicia.

Another point you overlook is that while TD himself said that Felicia is not aware how tall the stakes for her are, it is also made clear by TD in the story that Feli is aware that the stakes are high. And she knows and plans for this. She has some knowledge other members of the club could use to further their own goals. If that info is half as good as Felicia thinks it is, then she WILL get what she wants, an independent influence base and money. That is not a popularity thing, but a business one.