VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Maccabbee]

The last time I played this game was about 6 months ago. So, my faulty brain took over and replaced her name with what I thought was her real name, lol. It doesn't help that Hannah is a much more common western name. Thanks for correcting me.

I'll be playing from the start again today and see what else I might be misremembering and what new insights I can gain from this story.

Hana as spelled is a (among others, I'm sure) Japanese name, female, meaning "flower."

 

[se20299]

We can debate Edwin's mommy issues all day, but it's a fact that Rosalind targets Edwin because she percieves him to be soft and naive. She knows Ian would've told her to kick rocks, and she only approaches Edwin if he doesn't take advantage of her at the "audition", or if he apologizes after the fact. In fact, the only way to access the Full Deal route is to display weakness at the start and not go full asshole, despite Full Deal being one of the darker routes in the game.

So she's not just begging for help from anyone who will listen, she exclusively targets Edwin if she thinks she can manipulate him with her sob story and sex. I'm not calling her a bad person, but she doesn't try to pull this shit with anyone else, because she knows it wouldn't fly. If she thought she could've gotten Ian to give her a leg up, she would've tried.

It just so happens that Edwin's own mommy issues and past struggles make him susceptible to Rose's tactics, and extremely sympathetic to her plight, which is a mirror to his and Vicky's struggles.

 

[ffive]

Don't be disingenuous. You described her as a con woman taking advantage of Edwin.

Yes, i did. And i've said those actions stand in conflict with her alleged position as "the most wholesome RO".

I have not said anywhere that made her a horrible person. There's lot of room between horrible and the most wholesome, for anyone who isn't thinking in purely black and white terms where you can apparently only be one or the other.

So please, let's leave it at that and take your strawman with you.

More importantly, I decided to go and read through the scene again and there's one important detail I somehow forgot and seemingly you and the others here have also forgot or missed. It is hinted that Rose's husband* isn't just a douchebag, but also an abusive drunk. In which case she's an outright victim, no cons, no greyness.

As long as Rose has participated in his scams she's an accomplice, not a victim. The actual victims are people who were scammed by Rose's husband and Rose herself.

 

[ffive]

Hana as spelled is a (among others, I'm sure) Japanese name

Yup, for this matter so is Mina.

 

[UmbralKnight]

NSFW Solitaire ?
i can't even play regular solitaire

 

[UmbralKnight]

you came so close to discovering her true intentions
ROSE is LITERALLY playing a character just like felicia but unlike felicia who LOVES being the trophy wife most of the time.
Rose doesn't like role she is forced to play.
her mask slips up from time to time,
like when she comes to the MC's apartment to make a secret deal
she is definitively not a bad person but she is far from the act she puts up of being a good wholesome MILF who genuinely loves the MC.
if anything rose would be the most likely candidate in the group to betray other girls and make a secret deal with kathy or literally anyone else in the club to make sure she wins.

 

[GamingSavant]

I just started this and I already like it. Character build with traits that give different dialogue interactions? MC that can be either the good guy in a shitty place or the manipulative asshole villain? Goth girl GF? I'm invested.

 

[slightchance]

Being manipulative for women is just natural, they're evolutionary and biologically wired to do that.

"The way I see it, Rosalind doesn't have any agency since she is, as god is my witness, a woman. She's compelled by nature to do what she does because of her chromosomes. As such, she's only a victim of her circumstance, your honor. We plead not guilty."
"I see. I concur that a specimen, especially one with such a large bosom, attracts all sorts of hoodlums that will make it difficult for her to stay on the righteous path. Case dismissed."

 

[GamingSavant]

We can debate Edwin's mommy issues all day, but it's a fact that Rosalind targets Edwin because she percieves him to be soft and naive. She knows Ian would've told her to kick rocks, and she only approaches Edwin if he doesn't take advantage of her at the "audition", or if he apologizes after the fact. In fact, the only way to access the Full Deal route is to display weakness at the start and not go full asshole, despite Full Deal being one of the darker routes in the game.

So she's not just begging for help from anyone who will listen, she exclusively targets Edwin if she thinks she can manipulate him with her sob story and sex. I'm not calling her a bad person, but she doesn't try to pull this shit with anyone else, because she knows it wouldn't fly. If she thought she could've gotten Ian to give her a leg up, she would've tried.

It just so happens that Edwin's own mommy issues and past struggles make him susceptible to Rose's tactics, and extremely sympathetic to her plight, which is a mirror to his and Vicky's struggles.

After moving forward a bit in the story, I agree with this take. Rosalinde isn't a bad person, but she's in a shitty situation and she's looking for any sympathy card to help her out that she can get, even if that's someone like Edwin. Edwin's deal with her fits the entire subtitle of the game about the "motherly vibe"; his issues stemming from seeing his mother in porn to make ends meet for him and the resulting guilt and pent up lust gives way to some magnetism towards Rosalinde, but that's only if you the player pursue it. You can also just, very clearly, make Edwin a cold-hearted asshole who becomes vindicative if people try to embarrass or humiliate him.

 

[GamingSavant]

Question, does picking to accept Rosalinde's deal lock you to her content? Or just siding with her for Carnation-related stuff and still have options for other girls (besides the Carnations) down the line?

 

[ffive]

Question, does picking to accept Rosalinde's deal lock you to her content? Or just siding with her for Carnation-related stuff and still have options for other girls (besides the Carnations) down the line?

It doesn't affect other routes; you can accept her deal and still pursue other girls normally.

 

[GamingSavant]

It doesn't affect other routes; you can accept her deal and still pursue other girls normally.

Nice, that's the answer I was looking for, and a fast one too, appreciate it.

 

[GamingSavant]

I just realized, that statue is freaking Azura.

Is this place secretly a Dunmer front? Are we actually just in a plane of Oblivion here?

 

[Simpgor]

Is this place secretly a Dunmer front? Are we actually just in a plane of Oblivion here?

Spoiler: ending spoiler

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[GamingSavant]

You know... I actually find Netorare/Netori kinky a good portion of the time (women becoming degenerate due to lust and affection for another man, and all that), but this is one of the few netori situations with Mina that makes me feel a bit guilty. Like, Killian probably would forget losing Mina after a week considering how open he is about treating her like a trophy, but the harm it would do to find out his best friend who he considers to be like a brother stole her? That would feel like a stab to the heart.

 

[The Senior Perv]

You know... I actually find Netorare/Netori kinky a good portion of the time (women becoming degenerate due to lust and affection for another man, and all that), but this is one of the few netori situations with Mina that makes me feel a bit guilty. Like, Killian probably would forget losing Mina after a week considering how open he is about treating her like a trophy, but the harm it would do to find out his best friend who he considers to be like a brother stole her? That would feel like a stab to the heart.

You can always choose to NOT engage in anything sexual with Mina until she breaks up with Ian... if that makes you feel less guilty.

 

[GamingSavant]

You can always choose to NOT engage in anything sexual with Mina until she breaks up with Ian... if that makes you feel less guilty.

it definitely does, but then you're the guy who acted as a rebound for your best friend's ex, which socially hasn't been a norm since the 50's (as in the classical declaration that you're gonna steal your friend's girl if he ain't serious about her)

EDIT: Not to say I'm totally against the situation, mind you. That kind of forbidden fruit scenario is hot in it's own way; the pang of guilt hidden by lust.

 

[ffive]

EDIT: Not to say I'm totally against the situation, mind you. That kind of forbidden fruit scenario is hot in it's own way; the pang of guilt hidden by lust.

I imagine that's largely the point. Also, there's no obligation for Edwin to think of Ian as his actual best friend -- the game allows some early choices which set it up in a manner Edwin has clearly had enough of Ian's bullshit in the past and is now distancing himself from him. Ian acting like Ian (bringing a girl to bang to what's now Edwin's flat and cheating on Mina at every opportunity) makes it even easier to disregard any sort of the bullshit "bro code" with him.

Finally, Edwin doesn't really "steal" anything from Ian, much less Mina. She is the person who makes the active choices to move on from Ian. Edwin is more of a (potentially willing) accessory to it, than the instigator.

 

[GamingSavant]

I imagine that's largely the point. Also, there's no obligation for Edwin to think of Ian as his actual best friend -- the game allows some early choices which set it up in a manner Edwin has clearly had enough of Ian's bullshit in the past and is now distancing himself from him. Ian acting like Ian (bringing a girl to bang to what's now Edwin's flat and cheating on Mina at every opportunity) makes it even easier to disregard any sort of the bullshit "bro code" with him.

Finally, Edwin doesn't really "steal" anything from Ian, much less Mina. She is the person who makes the active choices to move on from Ian. Edwin is more of a (potentially willing) accessory to it, than the instigator.

That checks out, and I didn't know you could deteriorate their friendship *that* badly; there were a few occasions to call him an asshole or be annoyed with his shit, but they still seemed like they were still tight (something about a line Edwin has where he says Killian's an asshole, but he's his asshole)

 

[ffive]

That checks out, and I didn't know you could deteriorate their friendship *that* badly; there were a few occasions to call him an asshole or be annoyed with his shit, but they still seemed like they were still tight (something about a line Edwin has where he says Killian's an asshole, but he's his asshole)

I mean, it's not like you burn the bridges entirely with Ian. But if you drop the friendship score to around zero then they're more of "former best friends" (and Edwin would rather not interact much if he can help it) than actual best friends.