VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Beduin123]

From what she's said: blackmail. Once she has some influential friends outside Elias' control, she plans to leverage the dirt she's picked up on other people over the years (plus her high charisma) to get her what she needs. She may end up with less in terns in total dollars in her pocket than she had with Elias, but she'll accept that because she'll have far more say on how to use it.

And it's worth noting that her plan could work... *IF* everything goes well. The fact she's degrading herself in front of people who can't call her out on that in public is immaterial to her as long as they give her the contacts she needs; it's not like being sexually degraded is repulsive to her. Elias will no doubt learn about this eventually, but if Felicia has her own network by then it won't matter to her.

Of course, we in the audience have already learned that Felicia's plan is doomed, and it was always going to be something of a longshot. But Felicia was desperate enough and/or overconfident enough to assume she could make it work, so she tossed her hat into the ring. That arguably makes her foolish (and I have indeed argued that), but people act in foolish ways all the time.

Seems too far fetched to me. Becoming a completely degraded person to blackmail or punish somebody that you simply don't like? Isn't it easier for a prize wife to get a good lawyer and go for a decently rewarding divorce?
And about degradation, one thing is to love sex and enjoy it e.g. making young boys like the MC your sex toys or even holding wild sex orgies at your mansion. The other thing is being spunked on by a dozen of old assholes to become a disgusting trash can. I'm not that good at human deviation psychology but for me it doesn't look like what a "sex sage" is.

That's basically my disappointment that Felicia's impression of a stunning, cunning and manipulative sex guru was quickly replaced by an image of a rather stupid and primitive whore driven by her basic animal instincts.

 

[Idontplay]

I think you have overestimated Felicia; not a lot, just totally.

 

[Ungawa]

From what she's said: blackmail. Once she has some influential friends outside Elias' control, she plans to leverage the dirt she's picked up on other people over the years (plus her high charisma) to get her what she needs. She may end up with less in terns in total dollars in her pocket than she had with Elias, but she'll accept that because she'll have far more say on how to use it.

And it's worth noting that her plan could work... *IF* everything goes well. The fact she's degrading herself in front of people who can't call her out on that in public is immaterial to her as long as they give her the contacts she needs; it's not like being sexually degraded is repulsive to her. Elias will no doubt learn about this eventually, but if Felicia has her own network by then it won't matter to her.

Of course, we in the audience have already learned that Felicia's plan is doomed, and it was always going to be something of a longshot. But Felicia was desperate enough and/or overconfident enough to assume she could make it work, so she tossed her hat into the ring. That arguably makes her foolish (and I have indeed argued that), but people act in foolish ways all the time.

I don't know why, but Felicia always riles people up...

It's like people sometimes just can't connect that she has desires and aspirations, she settled on what she thought was the best then finds that she wants more and still wants higher aspirations.

How she does it is flawed, but it makes her an interesting character regardless.

 

[Beduin123]

I think you have overestimated Felicia; not a lot, just totally.

May be. Or may be the Devs didn't use the potential that her character had in the beginning of the game, making her just another primitive whore instead.

 

[Beduin123]

wants higher aspirations

Yeah, to become a cheap spunk trash is certainly a higher inspiration than to become a sex hungry and manipulative cheating wife

I don't know why, but Felicia always riles people up

So, may be it's not a coincidence?

 

[Idontplay]

Primitive? I don't see any "primitive" character in this game. On the contrary Felicia is a very developed and tridimensional character (like all other characters of this game), with very strong and believable bias, motivations, desires.
In this game the cunning and manipulative "sex guru" (¿sex guru?) is Katheleen. So why castrate (let's continue to use random words to express an idea in place of the right ones) a character, just to turn it in a clone of another one?

 

[Ungawa]

Yeah, to become a cheap spunk trash is certainly a higher inspiration than to become a sex hungry and manipulative cheating wife

*sigh*

That's really not the answer, man.

Each one of the Carnations has simple motivations and single minded determination. Edwin figures this out. They all have flaws. Veronica is about as subtle as a boulder rolling downhill.

I did a Veronica write up here

Rosalind? Stays in bad deals

I mean sure, it's easy to write off Felicia or anyone else in the story. I just find that they all give us different ways to view what's going on and there's no easy answers to any of their struggles.

 

[misfolk]

im sorry i do not get the reference can you please elaborate thank you so much

It's literally the address of the website, go to it.

 

[ffive]

Isn't it easier for a prize wife to get a good lawyer and go for a decently rewarding divorce?

IIRC Felicia was very clear in the game this is not an option for her. Ellas had her sign a prenup that effectively ensures she gets nothing of note if divorce takes place.

That's the problems with marrying millionaires -- they already have better lawyers than their prize wives to be could dream of.

Yeah, to become a cheap spunk trash is certainly a higher inspiration than to become a sex hungry and manipulative cheating wife

Felicia wants to become influential person who is not dependent on someone's whims. She neither minds nor gets hung up on the "cheap spunk trash" if she can get there.

Perhaps this is what bothers some people about her? That their primitive slut-shaming and going on about "spunk covered cheap whores" simply doesn't affect her? (or that, being an exhibitionist, she may even revel in it) Kat certainly seems to be taking this nonchalance of hers almost personally.

 

[GhostMGN]

The other thing is being spunked on by a dozen of old assholes to become a disgusting trash can.

I apologize for the machine translation.
In the current version of the game, there are options in which the expensive whore Felicia brilliantly wins every exhibition against “mousey fatt-tited brunette, or stuck-up gym freak redhead” (c), club girls against her look incompetent and Kathleen looks like an envious fool. With a high probability in the future she will not be able to bow down from a shovel of disgusting trash, but at the moment you can only blame yourself for her “cheapness”.

 

[GIL3D]

My main point is what Felicia is doing and she is most certainly ruining her husband's business reputation, his prospective political career (if he has any) and absolutely everything about her own life. Things like that cannot be hidden and can be used any time against both of them.

It's just very poor plot decision. I could buy it if she performed in the Club with her face covered by a mask under a fake name. But no, she openly declares from the stage that she is the wife of one of the richest persons in the town and after that immediately allows completely degrade herself to the level of the dirtiest pornstar.

I don't think you understand what she is trying to do and what it takes to make it to that last social tier she aspires to. For you, what she has is invaluable, and she's throwing it away, but for her, what she can accomplish trumps all risks. She's "all or nothing." What you call "degrading herself," she sees as merely displaying her power level, showing what she's got and how far she's willing to go (all the way).

I presume nobody here can surely know how the wicked minds of those who thrive by stepping on our collective necks truly are. Ours is an educated guess that tries to marry porn conductivity with plausibility. We see them as dragons, hollow and bored monsters with the world at their feet, desperate to be amused. Felicia understands the incredible opportunity she has been given, so she dances their wicked tunes, challenges them, dazzles them... and has done well so far. Her only problem is that, somewhere along the way, she forgot who she really is.

This is my partner's take on the character, at least to the extent I understand it. And I'm glad he's at the helm. Truth is stranger than fiction, by a margin most people won't even realize in their whole lives. I find his weaving of bizarre personas more akin to reality than what most would be able to muster if they ever dared to take a pen and face the crowd.

 

[Zoranian]

Are there consequences down the road for taking money from Felicia(for the date in the art gallery) and giving it to Rosiland(just telling her in the car that's what you'll be using the money for), or should I just bring it up with the club?

 

[Joratox]

So, please enlighten my ignorance, what is her brilliant plan involving to completely degrade herself and somehow stay afloat in her life?

Your ignorance is based on your own morals and wishes on how she should behave and/or not reading the story properly.

She clearly states that her goal is to win the competition and become a member of the club. As you can see, the members are exclusively powerful/rich men and she would not have any other method to join. As for why she want's to join ? As far as I can tell, getting friends in high places and use the blackmail material she acquired over the years, to get money and more control over her life. Being a member of such a club comes with a lot of benefits/protection. She can charm her way with the other members and have them protect her in case of retaliation from Elias or other people she plans to blackmail, or sell them said blackmail material. The possibilities are endless.

I mean, sure, it's a bad plan from the start, because it has a low chance of success. There are 2 conditions for this to work as I see it...her winning the competition and Elias not finding out too soon about it.

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As for what she does in other to get her wishes...pish posh. Sex, degrading herself, etc...she probably enjoys it either way. If she wins, nobody else will find out about it, because the members are sworn to secrecy, or else they are all exposed. If she loses...oh well....she's fucked beyond saving. So it's an all in bet, which she will probably lose (or the writer will find a way for her to win, if she gets a lot of help from the MC). *edit: Also the level of degrading is solely based on your choices > if the MC helps her a lot, she comes off less like a cheap whore but an expensive escort (even Kat gets envious and angry on her)

You seem to have more than a basic understanding of English, so the reason you are not getting this is...you formed an opinion of her early on then you refused to change it based on further information.

I'm not writing this to somehow change your mind ( I won't be able to), but to give context for other readers than come here and see your drivel all over the place and take it for facts.

 

[Beduin123]

That's the problems with marrying millionaires -- they already have better lawyers than their prize wives to be could dream of.

While I agree with that, it may be true.

She neither minds nor gets hung up on the "cheap spunk trash" if she can get there.

More often that not she behaves in the game like somebody who is hung up on the cheap spunk trash. Literally like a crazed sex animal, which breaks her character for me.

In the current version of the game, there are options in which the expensive whore Felicia brilliantly wins every exhibition against “mousey fatt-tited brunette, or stuck-up gym freak redhead” (c), club girls against her look incompetent and Kathleen looks like an envious fool. With a high probability in the future she will not be able to bow down from a shovel of disgusting trash, but at the moment you can only blame yourself for her “cheapness”.

It doesn't matter whether she wins or looses. She is ready to do all those things in public to win, it's a part of the world of the game, part of the lore. And even if she clearly wins the competition, she has to go through all kinds of humiliation.

I don't think you understand what she is trying to do and what it takes to make it to that last social tier she aspires to.

I do understand that. I just doubt that by degrading herself down to such low level she'll be able to recover back mentally or enjoy her newly found independence.
Also Felicia is arguably one of the most beautiful and smart girl in the game. But every now and then she is acting out of her sexual urges rather than a cold hearted calculation. In the beginning she was controlling the MC but half way through now he seems to be controlling her more than vice versa.
Her initial type reminded me Victoria from City of Broken Dreamers. But now any resemblance is gone, she seems to become much less using her skillful womanly charms and much more raw flesh power than in the beginning.

 

[Beduin123]

Your ignorance is based on your own morals and wishes on how she should behave and/or not reading the story properly.

It has nothing to do with the morals. It's just knowledge of how the world works. Believe me, through my life I've experienced a lot of people and situations.

She clearly states that her goal is to win the competition and become a member of the club.

So, you think rich and powerful people will be ready to accept someone who completely degraded themselves? Imagine somebody who you just circle-jerked on. Will you have any respect for them. I know they are all dirty bastards but it is an ability to be dominant, to exercise your power over the others that gives you respect in this case, not your ability to be submissive.

I'm not writing this to somehow change your mind ( I won't be able to), but to give context for other readers than come here and see your drivel all over the place and take it for facts.

No, you just want to impose your drivel on the others instead of trying to understand my arguments and if my drivel is all over the place, yours is even less solid

 

[ArsenHumby]

I see a big cleaning of the thread on the horizon...

 

[Beduin123]

I see a big cleaning of the thread on the horizon...

Why? It is a game related discussion about one of the ingame characters. The only problem that I see if some members start to throw abuses at me for having a bit different opinion on this character (to be true, some of them are already on the verge of that).

I clearly said in the beginning that I believe this is one of the best games on this site. But it doesn't mean I cannot question or discuss it.

 

[Idontplay]

Her initial type reminded me Victoria from City of Broken Dreamers.

Where?
The only similarity between Victoria and Felicia is that both are stunning hot chick. In fact Victoria is a woman who use her body to accomplish the tasks her employer give her, while Felicia had use her body to marry a filthy rich man and now (in the first updates of the game) she want enjoy everything her beauty and her husband's wealthy can buy. Since the start they were totally different characters, with different desires, different goals and different moral, different mindset…

 

[Joratox]

So, you think rich and powerful people will be ready to accept someone who completely degraded themselves? Imagine somebody who you just circle-jerked on. Will you have any respect for them.

Again you ignore the story and twist it to your imagination and purposes
If she gets the scene where they circle jerk on her...she is already well on her way on losing the competition. So she will not get to the point where she is a member and she can play on her strengths to get said respect. You played her as a loser so...imagine the surprise...she is a loser and gets fucked over.
As I said previously, all of her plan is built upon winning. If she loses she's fucked beyond saving.

Believe me, through my life I've experienced a lot of people and situations.

If you understood those people and situations as well as you understood this story...well, allow me not to believe you.

No, you just want to impose your drivel on the others instead of trying to understand my arguments

Your arguments are based on playing the character story wrong, then saying she is written poorly and you don't understand why she is behaving so erratically. My arguments are grounded in facts, and I've shown how both outcomes of her story develop. The readers will make up their own mind on who is spouting drivel.

I won't respond to any more of your posts, I've already made my case and it's pointless to debate with someone that will only bring a singular point of view to the discussion.

 

[Beduin123]

Where?
The only similarity between Victoria and Felicia is that both are stunning hot chick. In fact Victoria is a woman who use her body to accomplish the tasks her employer give her, while Felicia had use her body to marry a filthy rich man and now (in the first updates of the game) she want enjoy everything her beauty and her husband's wealthy can buy. Since the start they were totally different characters, with different desires, different goals and different moral, different mindset…

Let's say they both use their perfect bodies and their highly developed minds and social skills to achieve their goals. The details are not important in this case.