VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ffive]

I would say, for me Sophia is the polar opposite of Felicia. The later is driven mostly by passion, the former is driven by cold calculation. Both are very beautiful and intelligent. Both are equally immoral. Both are ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what they want. But still so different...

I think it can be safely said that Felicia is at least to some extent driven by cold calculation too, otherwise she wouldn't have picked a "career" of a trophy wife over pursuing actual career as a painter. But yes, nowhere to the extent of Sophia.

 

[Beduin123]

I think it can be safely said that Felicia is at least to some extent driven by cold calculation too, otherwise she wouldn't have picked a "career" of a trophy wife

Correct, but by now she seems to regret that she gave up the world of art, emotions and passion. That's why she acts so recklessly.

 

[ffive]

Ok, in our case it's rather unlikely that an acquaintance will find out. But do you think she thought about it beforehand?

I mean, if people in this thread are able to think about it, why do you think the very person most affected by it somehow wouldn't be aware of this possibility and didn't think about it? It could've very well been what you admit -- that the scenario of Victoria being found out was unlikely, that Victoria has also estimated it as unlikely, and as such decided it was low enough risk that she took it.

 

[Thor875]

Meantime, i maybe knew what a few of them looked like, those who happened to be parents of friends. And as we know Edwin didn't really have any friends at school, other than Ian. So i'd say it's highly doubtful there were many kids at Edwin's school that even knew what his mom looked like, much less actually knew her.


We don't know when Edwin found that out (or how) but i don't think it was in mid school. And evidently none of his classmates in mid school, high school and university found out, or if any of them did they didn't think it's something that's worth making a public matter and something to bully Edwin over. Which makes the whole handwringing how horrible prospect it is and how irresponsible of Victoria... rather toothless and overblown.

I don't agree with you.
Ok, in our case it's rather unlikely that an acquaintance will find out. But do you think she thought about it beforehand, my son hardly has any friends so it probably won't come out? Just because things have been going well so far doesn't make the decision any better. You have to be aware of the possible consequences of your actions, right? Shit happens

 

[Idontplay]

You should (but usually you don't) have to be aware of the possible consequences of your actions, right? Shit happens

Fixed.

 

[Thor875]

Both are very beautiful and intelligent. Both are equally immoral. Both are ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what they want. But still so different...

OK, then there are three. Or is it more moral to make porn (lead a double life), where she is ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what she want.

 

[sunaboz]

(...) Both women have no education. (...)

Felicia is psychology major so no.

 

[DarkLords00]

I would like to suggest that Vicky is the opposite of Felicia
Both women use their looks/body to get money.
Both women lead a life in the public eye.
Both women have no education.
We gradually get information about both women that greatly changes the original picture of them.
For me, both go in the opposite direction of my initial perception.
Felicia's actions are becoming more and more understandable to me. On the other hand, my image of Victoria is becoming more and more shaky the more I deal with the Donovan interview.
The question remains whether Vicky didn't have other options. That will probably never be answered. (For example, Mina's path. As Donovan notes, she isn't interested in showing her beauty, otherwise she wouldn't need to continue,implies that) But if that point were to be dropped, how would we have to see her in comparison to the Li's.

In my humble opinion say that Vicky is the opposite of Felicia, is like say that a battle tank is the opposite of a battleship. They are different weapons, with different purupose for different scenarios; even if both of them have cannons, diesel engines and are made by steel. At the same way Felicia and Victoria share some (very superficial) similarities, but they are different characters, with different mindset, different purpose and different role.
Does this mean they are opposite to each other? No, simply they are different or (if you prefer) yes, they are opposite to each other like they are opposite to Rosalind or to Veronica.

So, one is a nyphomaniac maybe a tad masochistic whore and the other one is just a hedonistic whore. So both are whores, so what's the issue?

We don't know when Edwin found that out (or how) but i don't think it was in mid school. And evidently none of his classmates in mid school, high school and university found out, or if any of them did they didn't think it's something that's worth making a public matter and something to bully Edwin over. Which makes the whole handwringing how horrible prospect it is and how irresponsible of Victoria... rather toothless and overblown.

That's a facile argument in my opinion. The thought of her work being found out somewhere down the line by people close to her or her son circle HAS to have crossed her mind at some point; And if it didn't when she first decided to do porn, it MUST have when she started having those "akward" remarks from Chuck during thanksgiving that we have learned about by now.
After all of this, she still decided not to reveal any of those details to his kid even after she found out she was now working for said individual. She only fessed up when it was either that or being coerced to manipulate someone she cared about.
I respect her for having enough integrity to be willing to sacrifice her image to the 2 people we know are only close to her rather than be willing to manipulate 1 of them, but I'm not going to feel pity for her when she is just being confronted by the long term consequences of her own actions.

 

[hairy_trump]

Does anyone have saves for the game, I recently booted my system and have lost all saves files

 

[Beduin123]

OK, then there are three. Or is it more moral to make porn (lead a double life), where she is ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what she want.

Not exactly. I agree with those who say that Victoria is mostly motherly figure in this game and she is an older copy of Rosie in many ways. All she has done was out of necessity, rather than ambition as in case of Sophia and Felicia.

 

[Thor875]

Not exactly. I agree with those who say that Victoria is mostly motherly figure in this game and she is an older copy of Rosie in many ways. All she has done was out of necessity, rather than ambition as in case of Sophia and Felicia.

Yes, I saw it that way too. But isn't the necessity questioned by Donovan? "Well, there´s more to this than looking good, we wouldn´t need to go any further than this today. Doesn't that imply she could have gone Mina's way, as a model or actress?

 

[ffive]

Yes, I saw it that way too. But isn't the necessity questioned by Donovan? "Well, there´s more to this than looking good, we wouldn´t need to go any further than this today. Doesn't that imply she could have gone Mina's way, as a model or actress?

The keyword in that quote is "today". It's never going to be "just model or actress", the only question is whether it'd take a little more time to get to the porn.

 

[ffive]

That's a facile argument in my opinion. The thought of her work being found out somewhere down the line by people close to her or her son circle HAS to have crossed her mind at some point; And if it didn't when she first decided to do porn, it MUST have when she started having those "akward" remarks from Chuck during thanksgiving that we have learned about by now.

I'm absolutely not claiming Victoria didn't consider that factor, quite the opposite. I'm just saying that she likely estimated it as low enough it's worth a risk, and the game essentially proved her right.

I believe any possible mentions from Chuck are long-after-the-fact development. Even then, and even if it happened earlier, neither Chuck nor Grace made their knowledge public, which again validates Victoria's possible estimation that the word of her actions wasn't very likely to get out to general public.

 

[DarkLords00]

I believe any possible mentions from Chuck are long-after-the-fact development. Even then, and even if it happened earlier, neither Chuck nor Grace made their knowledge public, which again validates Victoria's possible estimation that the word of her actions wasn't very likely to get out to general public.

I mean, that was just her being lucky that the people that found out wouldn't (or in Grace's case couldn't) expose her. She still was found out anyways, in fact she got as lucky as she got almost the best scenario possible since due to Edwin finding out on his own she didn't blindsided him(and determinantly, Killian) with the news. The problem is that now she doesn't have much of a moral pillar to grandstand with her "children" since if even if she wanted to try for Edwin or Killian to quit their assiciation/job for Chuck and to not only just think about the money, she has pretty much no room to talk considering what she herself choose in the past.

 

[Thor875]

The keyword in that quote is "today". It's never going to be "just model or actress", the only question is whether it'd take a little more time to get to the porn.

I absolutely agree with you if you look at this statement alone. But here it is a reaction from Donovan to her statement that she hated beauty pageants.

 

[Thor875]

I mean, that was just her being lucky that the people that found out wouldn't (or in Grace's case couldn't) expose her. She still was found out anyways, in fact she got as lucky as she got almost the best scenario possible since due to Edwin finding out on his own she didn't blindsided him(and determinantly, Killian) with the news. The problem is that now she doesn't have much of a moral pillar to grandstand with her "children" since if even if she wanted to try for Edwin or Killian to quit their assiciation/job for Chuck and to not only just think about the money, she has pretty much no room to talk considering what she herself choose in the past.

You've summed up well what I was aiming for with all my questions. And as for Ian, his reaction remains to be seen. Once it sinks in and he's seen the interview?

 

[ffive]

I mean, that was just her being lucky that the people that found out wouldn't (or in Grace's case couldn't) expose her.

Sure, in the same way people with 99% chance to succeed are "lucky" they didn't trip over that 1% chance to fail. Same way you are "lucky" every day not to get hit by a car when it's something entirely possible to occur and, following the logic in this thread, the mere existence of such possibility should totally prevent you from leaving your home, ever.

 

[Bootyman92]

I just want to say, Hana is such a fucking smokeshow. Like holy moly.

 

[DarkLords00]

Sure, in the same way people with 99% chance to succeed are "lucky" they didn't trip over that 1% chance to fail. Same way you are "lucky" every day not to get hit by a car when it's something entirely possible to occur and, following the logic in this thread, the mere existence of such possibility should totally prevent you from leaving your home, ever.

Funny you mentioned the car stuff, I almost got ran over by a car once because I was not paying attention to my surroundings and it was close enough that the poor driver almost crushed my dumbass foot xD I got REALLY lucky that the poor driver braked when he did or else I might've gotten my foot crushed. (It was just outside of my house too for a even greater layer of irony )

Also how does your comparasion work for Victoria? She choose a certain (unknown) amount of times to work for the porn industry so much so she graduated from less regulated stuff to working for a company. It wasn't a one and done deal, and every time she chose to do so she incremented her chances of her past coming to light, wether it really was out of necessity or because she ended with a strange fixiation for doing the stuff we don't fully know but from everything we got so far we can concur it was definetely a mixture of both at least.

 

[Fapparition]

I would say, for me Sophia is the polar opposite of Felicia. The later is driven mostly by passion, the former is driven by cold calculation. Both are very beautiful and intelligent. Both are equally immoral. Both are ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what they want. But still so different...

It's kind of funny that you call them "polar opposite" and the next sentences bring a bunch of traits that they share. I would say Felicia and Sophia are quite similar as they both agreed to be a 'trophy', willing to use their bodies, both are blond, etc. It what they get on their side of the bargain differentiates them. Felicia wants money so she can satisfy her hedonistic nature while Sophia needs a lever to get higher in the medical world, to have more access. It's actually Sophia who is driven by passion here.