VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ename144]

This goes without saying. But the 2 major choices (confess to Ian and delete the videos) that TD gives us at the very end of the update give the player the opportunity to think about their choices in their main playthrough and not be guided by "I'll first see what these choices lead to, and then choose the "good" option".

Sure, but a better way to do that is to make sure both options lead to quality content, just content of a different kind. I'll be very disappointed if it turns out one choice (even my prefered choice of deleting the files) has unambiguously better rewards.

For Edwin, the truth hasn't yet been revealed. Victoria's attempt to confess to her past, which he has known for many years, can hardly be called the truth. If you go by instinct, as you mentioned earlier, then the "good" choice for him would be to lie to Ian. Edwin himself feels this:

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After this, Ian directly says that they need to ask Vicky herself what happened between her and Grace. For my main playthrough, where Ian goes down the Introspection path, I'm not going to lie to him. Is it wrong for Vicky? Absolutely. But in this case, Edwin needs someone he can rely on no matter what. He's already been going down this path alone too much.
Even Victoria herself wanted to confess her past to both of them and there are hints about this.

I'm taking it on faith that the MC is correct about what Victoria was about to confess and that we will follow up on this topic at the next available opportunity. I think it would be a narrative disaster for a cliffhanger to tease something the game has been building towards for 5 years only to divert to an unrelated crisis in the next update. That's not to say there can't be any surprises - it's entirely possible there will be a lot more to the story than we currently know - but the known facts of Vicky's porn career have to be addressed and should form the backbone of whatever other revelations might be in store for us next time. IMHO, of course.

When it comes to the MC's inclination to lie to Ian in comparison to him planning to delete the tapes, not all instincts are created equal. The MC's instinct to lie to Ian is his first response in a crisis, whereas his instinct to delete the videos is the result of an indeterminate amount of time pondering the issue. I very much doubt it was his initial reaction when he first stumbled upon his mom's videos. So I don't really see the two scenarios as comparable.

As for Grace, I have vague doubts that she even thought about the option where her blackmail would completely backfired and this would turn Ian against her even more. And this is despite the fact that Victoria herself told her this to her face:

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This is exactly what awaits Grace in my main playthrough

As for her "voluntary act" - I completely disagree. I think in the last update it's not for nothing that the topic of Victoria wanting to sell the house is touched upon (as Veronica said, Vicky wants to turn the page in her life).

My point was that Grace wasn't interested in ruining Victoria's life, she was trying (poorly I agree, but still *trying*) to dragoon her into manipulating Ian. This implies that her dirty secret could stay buried if she just went along with Grace's demands. I take Vicky's request for the MC to bring Ian along with him as evidence that she will not go along with those demands - which would make it her choice to defy Grace by spilling the beans to the MC herself.

Again, this is obviously not something Victoria would have done absent Grace's base villainy, but it's still her choice. It's no different than saying Rose chose to become a Carnation rather than, say, choosing to work directly for Oliver or some other equally desperate option. A choice under duress is still a choice.

And in this case I do think it's instructive that as ashamed as Victoria seems to be about the skeletons in her closet, she'd still rather air them out than betray Ian's trust. Given that, it sure seems to me like following up on the topic, both to head off any other revelations and to help put her mind at ease, is entirely appropriate. Deleting the tapes is secondary to that, but I'd still say it's the more empathetic option given that Victoria is clearly not eager to revisit the details of those tapes with her son.

I'm starting to think more and more that Edwin isn't just a sadist by nature, he's an empathetic sadist

How is this in doubt? The MC being caught between his empathic and sadistic sides probably forms at least 20% of the game's text! They are both aspects of his personality, and a large part of our job as players is to tilt the balance between them. I suppose we could debate how much of those aspects is nature vs nurture, but I think we have enough contentious topics to mull over for the moment.

 

[lustforsex]

Sure, but a better way to do that is to make sure both options lead to quality content, just content of a different kind. I'll be very disappointed if it turns out one choice (even my prefered choice of deleting the files) has unambiguously better rewards.


I'm taking it on faith that the MC is correct about what Victoria was about to confess and that we will follow up on this topic at the next available opportunity. I think it would be a narrative disaster for a cliffhanger to tease something the game has been building towards for 5 years only to divert to an unrelated crisis in the next update. That's not to say there can't be any surprises - it's entirely possible there will be a lot more to the story than we currently know - but the known facts of Vicky's porn career have to be addressed and should form the backbone of whatever other revelations might be in store for us next time. IMHO, of course.

When it comes to the MC's inclination to lie to Ian in comparison to him planning to delete the tapes, not all instincts are created equal. The MC's instinct to lie to Ian is his first response in a crisis, whereas his instinct to delete the videos is the result of an indeterminate amount of time pondering the issue. I very much doubt it was his initial reaction when he first stumbled upon his mom's videos. So I don't really see the two scenarios as comparable.


My point was that Grace wasn't interested in ruining Victoria's life, she was trying (poorly I agree, but still *trying*) to dragoon her into manipulating Ian. This implies that her dirty secret could stay buried if she just went along with Grace's demands. I take Vicky's request for the MC to bring Ian along with him as evidence that she will not go along with those demands - which would make it her choice to defy Grace by spilling the beans to the MC herself.

Again, this is obviously not something Victoria would have done absent Grace's base villainy, but it's still her choice. It's no different than saying Rose chose to become a Carnation rather than, say, choosing to work directly for Oliver or some other equally desperate option. A choice under duress is still a choice.

And in this case I do think it's instructive that as ashamed as Victoria seems to be about the skeletons in her closet, she'd still rather air them out than betray Ian's trust. Given that, it sure seems to me like following up on the topic, both to head off any other revelations and to help put her mind at ease, is entirely appropriate. Deleting the tapes is secondary to that, but I'd still say it's the more empathetic option given that Victoria is clearly not eager to revisit the details of those tapes with her son.


How is this in doubt? The MC being caught between his empathic and sadistic sides probably forms at least 20% of the game's text! They are both aspects of his personality, and a large part of our job as players is to tilt the balance between them. I suppose we could debate how much of those aspects is nature vs nurture, but I think we have enough contentious topics to mull over for the moment.

I'll give you a short answer. In my main playthrough, Edwin doesn't try to hurt anyone and keeps his sadistic side in check as much as possible in relation to others. If one last decision to not delete the videos turns him into a monster, I'll be disappointed too.

 

[Maccabbee]

I'll give you a short answer. In my main playthrough, Edwin doesn't try to hurt anyone and keeps his sadistic side in check as much as possible in relation to others. If one last decision to not delete the videos turns him into a monster, I'll be disappointed too.

I still don't understand why so many of you think negatively of sexual sadism. It's a kink, like any other. If it's consensual, it's okay. Masochists get off on it. "If it makes you happy it isn't so bad".

 

[lustforsex]

I still don't understand why so many of you think negatively of sexual sadism. It's a kink, like any other. If it's consensual, it's okay. Masochists get off on it. "If it makes you happy it isn't so bad".

The question here is whether you consider Felicia, Rose and Veronica worthy of taking out your sadistic side on them if you don't have to. If it's consensual, that's a given. In their situation, I don't see it.

 

[Maccabbee]

I am really trying to withhold myself from responding to these gooner incel comments. Fuckers like sex, but women who like sex are whores. Fucking insecure fuckwads. Body count is just experience points. I'd rather fuck a woman who's leveled up their skills than some virgin that can't fuck.

 

[Ozymandias037]

The question here is whether you consider Felicia, Rose and Veronica worthy of taking out your sadistic side on them if you don't have to. If it's consensual, that's a given. In their situation, I don't see it.

It's consensual in at least some instances. Specifically thinking here of Felicia saying "It's okay, let it out." Granted that remark was probably largely born of her own insecurities and baggage, but that's a whoooooole other thing.

And not to resurrect an argument we've had way too many times already, but all three Carnations are participating in the competition willingly. They're desperate, and coerced consent is extremely dubious, but there's nothing to stop any of them from saying "no, enough" and dropping out.

 

[TD1900]

I get it that we're toppling oppressive patriarchal God forgive my stupid ass for using big words on the penis forum again view of sex here, but what exactly is the middle ground would mean in this situation? We're not in the dark ages anymore, after E's father was out of the picture it was not expected of V to join the convent to live out her days as celibate and forever faithful to the gone spouse. Porn industry is exploitative of women by definition, horribly so even, scratching an itch by going to those people is like hammering down a nail with a rocket launcher.

When I say "itch to scratch", I don't quite mean her libido. Vicky herself tells Ian that as a beautiful woman, she'd have no problem getting laid. The itch I'm alluding to is whatever inside her head that made doing porn an acceptable and appealing deviation in her life. People often need fast money and those people often enjoy sex, but not everyone chooses to fuck on camera for some quick cash or goes even further to make a short career out of it.

Point was, whatever your opinion on her performing in porn is, whatever led her there... she's *human. That's the middle of the road painfully obvious truism that Edwin often leaves off the table. In his mind, he needs her to be a saint while fearing his natural disgust at what he's seen must otherwise be a total rejection of his mother. It's what he's often reconciling with the help of the Carnation's own situations: Veronica's unwillingness to accept change, Rosalind as a martyr, and Felicia's exhibitionism. (Or so I often ham fist in there.)

*not actually human, but a contrivance of words to satisfy my perverse interest in moms doing porn.

 

[Khan merry]

When there are signs of possible mental health issues, but nothing you can definitively prove.

 

[slightchance]

Yeah, i don't see how one would think Edwin has that kind of thoughts and attitude towards sex when he works his ass off to make the girl cum multiple times.

I've zoned out once or twice while having intrusive thoughts. My head was not in the game and my body was on auto mod. You know what to do and how to get them off but you're not doing it for their pleasure. You're not even doing it for yourself. You just do it because it's not the worst thing in the world right now. And maybe you hate them a tiny little bit for getting more out of it than you do.

 

[marcodelamoret]

 

[Julius Kingsley]

Making them all likable is the correct stance from a writing standpoint, but it will make choosing just one to support hard, man. I’m intrigued and downloading the game right now. I will give it a thorough chance, and even if it’s not for me, I won’t turn into another troll terrorizing this thread, dw guys lol.

Okay, finally got the time to start it. Tonight is the night.

 

[Discrepancy]

Okay, finally got the time to start it. Tonight is the night.

I recognize you from the Superhuman Thread, I follow it but not really participate, but noticed you started it recently and really liked it assuming by your Nico signature
Hope you have a similar experience with Pale Carnations as you had with Superhuman

 

[Thrudgelmirator]

when next update

 

[Discrepancy]

when next update

Not soon

 

[fasoaga]

Does our actions change MC's friend? I remember his mom trying to get him into college or something. And is there a developed love route for redhead gym girl? It's been a while since i last played and i don't know if i should start again or wait for the next update.

 

[TD1900]

Does our actions change MC's friend? I remember his mom trying to get him into college or something. And is there a developed love route for redhead gym girl? It's been a while since i last played and i don't know if i should start again or wait for the next update.

1) Yes, depending on how you advise the friend there are small changes through out the story - and it's gonna particularly come to a head over the next few updates due to some big decisions in the recent one.

2) Yes. She's got my personal favorite date scene in the game, actually.

The next update is awhile away, so playing now or later comes down to if you want to wait a middling amount of time for the next update after catching up or have a full dev cycle to wait after finishing.

 

[Jack-O]

when next update

 

[Julius Kingsley]

And I tried to play the nice guy, not using her.. I guess they’re getting used anyway, so I’ll lower my moral standards, lol.

 

[fasoaga]

1) Yes, depending on how you advise the friend there are small changes through out the story - and it's gonna particularly come to a head over the next few updates due to some big decisions in the recent one.

2) Yes. She's got my personal favorite date scene in the game, actually.

The next update is awhile away, so playing now or later comes down to if you want to wait a middling amount of time for the next update after catching up or have a full dev cycle to wait after finishing.

Thanks for the answer. I'm gonna check it out just for the date.

 

[Julius Kingsley]

Every girl is a bonafide slut, but the dialogue is great and the characters feel alive. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.