VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[TD1900]

Probably because the devs themselves want to keep the exhibition in one update.

...do we? Because it's more financially lucrative for us to update more. It would also reset our morale, get us more engagement, and in the long run the narrative impact of splitting it up is just a temporary issue. New readers or people revisiting the project post chapter 4 will never even know that part of the game was released across two updates.

But besides "muh artistic vision" (which no one cares about), the reality of serialized releases IS that they're packaged experiences, temporary as that may be, for our immediate and most important fans. There is both a fear that the first part of the exhibition will not be as satisfying for them without the night's climax and that the climax will lose impact from the gap in time between releases. The people concerned about that could wait, but that would mean divesting themselves from the community (which if you're yapping about it here, is part of the fun of AVNs). It also doesn't account for the "oh, hey, new update!" folks having the context to make that decision.

Time renders everything moot, but we live in the moment. Having people wait too long for an update OR potentially leaving a bad taste in their mouths both work against that. We wouldn't have made a poll if we were so sure what we wanted.

 

[helo138]

Entitled much

I am not entitled to anything, and the devs are not entitled to get my money until the update drops.
Its nice talking about continuity and keeping the flow going until the money stops. Then everybody is whining why they can´t continue developing.
This is the choice of getting more money for the next ~ 3 months without additional effort. But I already discussed this on the discord, and had to accept the devs see it differently. Their loss.

 

[helo138]

1. I love long meaty updates, nothing to do with Devs desires. They are going to do what they are going to do

2. GTA4 to GTA5 to GTA6 has built up my patience for game development cycles. A few extra months is nothing to me.

3. Gives me more more time to replay the game and refresh my memory on all the story points.

Signed… someone who voted not to split in Patreon.

What stops you from just skipping the update? Not a single one of your points is relevant to my statement. The votes must come from someone, I guess.

 

[helo138]

...do we? Because it's more financially lucrative for us to update more. It would also reset our morale, get us more engagement, and in the long run the narrative impact of splitting it up is just a temporary issue. New readers or people revisiting the project post chapter 4 will never even know that part of the game was released across two updates.

But besides "muh artistic vision" (which no one cares about), the reality of serialized releases IS that they're packaged experiences, temporary as that may be, for our immediate and most important fans. There is both a fear that the first part of the exhibition will not be as satisfying for them without the night's climax and that the climax will lose impact from the gap in time between releases. The people concerned about that could wait, but that would mean divesting themselves from the community (which if you're yapping about it here, is part of the fun of AVNs). It also doesn't account for the "oh, hey, new update!" folks having the context to make that decision.

Time renders everything moot, but we live in the moment. Having people wait too long for an update OR potentially leaving a bad taste in their mouths both work against that. We wouldn't have made a poll if we were so sure what we wanted.

You made your preference clear on more than one occasion. Maybe Gil sees it differently.
I give you credit for listing pros and cons in the poll intro.
My point still stands. I know skipping an update is not something done by hardcore fans or the "new update" folk, but it is a valid option. For many games with more regular update schedules it is the only way to get any meaningful amount of content per playthrough.
And please, the conversation in between updates here and on the discord is sparse and mostly focused on everything instead of PC (at least on the discord). So you prefer silence for another 5-6 months?

 

[se20299]

I feel like the actual patrons should decide, if TD actually decides to leave it up to the fans. Most of us are gonna get it for free anyway, and I personally don't care one way or the other as I have a perpetual backlog that I can always go through while I wait for a major release like PC.

Of course I'd prefer for the update to drop sooner, but it's not a big deal and if TD's having doubts about the flow/quality of seperate updates, I don't mind waiting until next year, especially since TD&GIL have always delivered in the past and I think they've earned a lot of credit due to that, and I have no doubt that the update will be worth it if they decide to include the exibition.

 

[Darreau91]

What stops you from just skipping the update? Not a single one of your points is relevant to my statement. The votes must come from someone, I guess.

I wouldn’t skip an update if they split it. Long meaty updates are my personal prefrence if given the choice.

I understood your post as meaning non splitter voters only voted that way because the devs allegedly desire that outcome.

I guess my 3 point list failed to convey I have my own selfish reasons for voting the way I did without the influence of Devs supposed opinion.

 

[TD1900]

And please, the conversion in between updates here and on the discord is sparse and mostly focused on everything instead of PC (at least on the discord). So you prefer silence for another 5-6 months?

I mean, that's kinda my point, from the perspective of someone who wouldn't want to split OR skip. The burst in conversation is so brief and far between between that someone bowing out of an update cycle may feel like they're missing out. You asked for reasons.

From my perspective, the extra engagement is obviously a good thing. I listed losing relevance as a concern.

 

[helo138]

I mean, that's kinda my point, from the perspective of someone who wouldn't want to split OR skip. The burst in conversation is so brief and far between between that someone bowing out of an update cycle may feel like they're missing out. You asked for reasons.

From my perspective, the extra engagement is obviously a good thing. I listed losing relevance as a concern.

Would be interesting to how many players this thought process applies?
I mean, in order to not miss out on the pre-exhibition-update discussion, one votes to not split the update. Additional constraint, wanting to play the update in one go, because cliffhanger is too hard to bear, although the last cliffhanger will be expanded by months.
I guess I am not putting so much thought into a porn game. Peace out

 

[lustforsex]

I mean, that's kinda my point, from the perspective of someone who wouldn't want to split OR skip. The burst in conversation is so brief and far between between that someone bowing out of an update cycle may feel like they're missing out. You asked for reasons.

From my perspective, the extra engagement is obviously a good thing. I listed losing relevance as a concern.

You also need to consider that when you express your point of view (your personal opinion is present on Patreon), many simply follow it unquestioningly. I think your and GIL's opinions should have been held back for a while so that people could make their own decision. But, unfortunately, it's too late.

 

[slightchance]

You also need to consider that when you express your point of view (your personal opinion is present on Patreon), many simply follow it unquestioningly. I think your and GIL's opinions should have been held back for a while so that people could make their own decision. But, unfortunately, it's too late.

Unbiased silence would anger the let-them-cook crowd who don't want to form an opinion nor do they need one.

 

[DarkLords00]

I am really baffled about the current poll, 2/3 of the patreons want to wait. Probably because the devs themselves want to keep the exhibition in one update. I cannot really understand it, from my point of view splitting the update has more advantages than disadvantages. Taking longer as a whole is a weak argument, since we are talking probably about 10 days longer for double proofreading and so one, which is insignificant looking at a development time which will be longer than 400 days. Also I do not believe the update will be finished in 3-4 months. We are looking at a release window in February or March 2026.

In short, give us the update now, everybody who cares about the build-up and cliffhangers, can just skip the update and wait until next year.

It's no surprise some people are willing to wait more for a product if they trust the developers and/or think some of it's quality will be compromised if the deveolopers would choose to split the current update before they had initially planned.

You also need to consider that when you express your point of view (your personal opinion is present on Patreon), many simply follow it unquestioningly. I think your and GIL's opinions should have been held back for a while so that people could make their own decision. But, unfortunately, it's too late.

That kind of mindset seems kind of entitled, IMO.

Yes, people do get influenced easily sometimes but I believe a developer should be able to express wathever they want about their product AND, there's also the fact patreons are responsible adults that should be responsible for their own choices.

Regardless, I believe a developer is completely justified in expressing their opinions on topics such as these, especially if it's something like changing the plans around the relase of an update.

I mean, that's kinda my point, from the perspective of someone who wouldn't want to split OR skip. The burst in conversation is so brief and far between between that someone bowing out of an update cycle may feel like they're missing out. You asked for reasons.

From my perspective, the extra engagement is obviously a good thing. I listed losing relevance as a concern.

Just talking out of my ass here since I'm not knowledgable on the topic but whichever choice you guys end up picking, hopefully you can commit to it and explain your reasons to your supporters either via patreon or discord and may they uderstand it accordingly.

I don't think there's such thing as putting monetary gain over Artistic integrity in the way that i'ts always an "one or the other" kind of thing, but more so like a treshold.

For Example:

(I'm assuming you and GIL already decided on wich scene would be the "cutoff point") If you two think that part is appropiate enough to split the history of this specific update without damaging it's flow or reception to the history you want to told with this update or you think that, at worst, it would only be a blue-balls cliffhanger momement. I truly believe you guys should go for it and split it. (Even if I am personally against it)

On the other hand, if you guys think that you cannot find any good cuttoff point in this section of the story to properly divide it (which I assume must be hard since it's mostly just the Exhibition night shenanigans) and you TWO specifically can't seem to agree on a cutoffpoint or think the flow of the update would be significantly damaged by whichever cutoff point you could choose in this specific instance. Then and only then I think you guys should opt for the longer update and not split it.

Ultimately, there's no "Correct" choice here.

Each option has it's own upsides and downsides, as for me as a "Filthy Ex-Pirate" (I now wait for Public Relases ) and a part of the "Let-them-cook" crowd I will have no problem waiting for the full relase whenever that may be if I have to wait more or spent more time away from the forums I don't particularly care that much ( Oh no, I won't be able to see the N°6699 Post about asking for more Victoria scenes or Incest! ). I'll just wait and see I mostly only lurk here anyways so... *Shrugs

 

[GIL3D]

Maybe Gil sees it differently.

Yeeah, I'm more a fan of split. I feel like people that wouldn't mind waiting are ride or die, and I really appreciate them. The problem is growth and relevance, and also keeping the more transactional-minded part of our fanbase happy. I'm very surprised by the results, truth be told. We'll see what we decide.

 

[TD1900]

I guess I am not putting so much thought into a porn game. Peace out

Believe it or not, you actually came to mind when we were weighing the pros and cons. I know a subset of players are looking forward to the content that the exhibition proper will provide and I've made certain assurances about what to expect in the next one.

All to say, I don't know man, I appreciate your perspective.

You also need to consider that when you express your point of view (your personal opinion is present on Patreon), many simply follow it unquestioningly. I think your and GIL's opinions should have been held back for a while so that people could make their own decision. But, unfortunately, it's too late.

That's a good point actually. When I said what I was leaning towards three weeks ago, I didn't expect us to be making a poll about it. I guess I started to feel the claws of the time devil digging into our shoulders with July turning into August and was looking for some reassurance, as, to be honest, I'm not a huuuuge fan of involving polls in these kind of decisions.

The act of posing one probably leads to more hurt feelings for the side that loses than just us unilaterally making a decision would (especially so if we end up going against the majority), but GIL had the idea the other day and it got me genuinely curious about what the silent majority feels. Someone suggested that it would have been better to add a more laissez-faire option ("do whatever you want"). Admittedly, that probably would have helped us get a better sense of where people's feelings actually land should we go one way or another, but I feel like that would have won and we'd be in the exact same impasse.

 

[slightchance]

Looks like a split between split and and full release, so it's 2:1 for a split. I'd say the matter is settled. A poll wasn't even needed.

 

[Khan merry]

Can we see the poll result?

 

[MagicMan753]

I can see both sides. I am of the camp to wait till the exhibiton is done and aftermath events/night events all in one for multiple reasons. I feel like having one big update will feel better, yes you get something out now, but how much content or type of content will there be. Like how much sexual content will there really be, before nothing was really gated, yes we had indviudal girl updates, but you can date all girls, this update we are getting major Hana GF path, how many people have that path or wants to follow that path, I am setting that path up later.

I think also just overall sexual scenes, will people really be satisified, cause it feels like it will be a bunch of setup, with our usual exploring the area, talking to people, getting ready. So the same people that want release now, will probably just be the same to come here to bitch and moan possibly, about not getting much content or update feeling short, possibly.

I would like to wait even if you split, but that would also suck, cause I know the update would be out, so what, can't come to this forum, or anywhere for what, another 6+ months to avoid spoilers possibly. And I understand the financial or gain growth, but still it would suck to play what may feel like half an update, without the exhibiton, just my thoughts on the situation, but will respect whatever you decide.

 

[lustforsex]

Believe it or not, you actually came to mind when we were weighing the pros and cons. I know a subset of players are looking forward to the content that the exhibition proper will provide and I've made certain assurances about what to expect in the next one.

All to say, I don't know man, I appreciate your perspective.



That's a good point actually. When I said what I was leaning towards three weeks ago, I didn't expect us to be making a poll about it. I guess I started to feel the claws of the time devil digging into our shoulders with July turning into August and was looking for some reassurance, as, to be honest, I'm not a huuuuge fan of involving polls in these kind of decisions.

The act of posing one probably leads to more hurt feelings for the side that loses than just us unilaterally making a decision would (especially so if we end up going against the majority), but GIL had the idea the other day and it got me genuinely curious about what the silent majority feels. Someone suggested that it would have been better to add a more laissez-faire option ("do whatever you want"). Admittedly, that probably would have helped us get a better sense of where people's feelings actually land should we go one way or another, but I feel like that would have won and we'd be in the exact same impasse.

You can cross me out of the list of those who might be upset by your final decision. But I don't know how many people have the same opinion.

Honestly, I think that Pale Carnations deserves more popularity and, therefore, more support, if you objectively look at the bar set by your game. In my opinion, only your second game can surpass this bar in the AVN niche (if there is one, of course). The fact that this game isn't for everyone and many are simply afraid to give it a chance, after 5 years of development, you need to think about growth (Veronica's vibe) and dividing the update into 2 parts will provide this growth to some extent.

I'm not one of those people who just wants an update here and now, I want your game to be more successful.

 

[Khan merry]

You can cross me out of the list of those who might be upset by your final decision. But I don't know how many people have the same opinion.

Honestly, I think that Pale Carnations deserves more popularity and, therefore, more support, if you objectively look at the bar set by your game. In my opinion, only your second game can surpass this bar in the AVN niche (if there is one, of course). The fact that this game isn't for everyone and many are simply afraid to give it a chance, after 5 years of development, you need to think about growth (Veronica's vibe) and dividing the update into 2 parts will provide this growth to some extent.

I'm not one of those people who just wants an update here and now, I want your game to be more successful.

+1 yeah also the matter about upseting certain players, i think only the one who has fewer patience will do something about it

 

[Biscardone]

(Preface: I'm not a patron. Do what you will with my preferences.)

I am among those who would gladly wait for a more substantial release. Primarily because, if I'm understanding correctly, the "original idea" was not to split the release in two, and as such this is probably what would come more natural, from both a technical and narrative point of view.

I also don't particularly like polls, because as I've probably said an inordinate amount of times, I don't particularly like the idea of fans influencing decisions on the game itself - because it leads people to thinking that "he who pays the piper calls the tune", and that's the exact opposite of what patronage should represent. And while I would like the game to reach the broadest audience possible, I think this is something that cannot be done without compromising the original vision.

But overall, I would rather the choice be based solely on the considerations of TD and GIL. Because there is no game without the authors, and I'd much like the game to reach its completion in the smoothest way possible.

 

[prpa]

I’ll add my two cents: I don’t mind waiting, actually, I’m all for it. I’d much rather experience the full game day as one complete event than have it split in two. Maybe I’m overthinking it, but usually, the first part of an exhibition tends to have less sexual content than the second. And let’s be honest, no matter how big the update is or how much written content it offers, there will always be a vocal group of crybabies whining about the lack of sex.

That said, I do see the other side of the argument. Releasing the content in parts might help maintain momentum and encourage growth in patron support, as some have pointed out. It’s a trade-off between pacing and community engagement.