VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ungawa]

We want a split/full day of content!

So what you're telling me when I start over, I got 3 exhibitions to go through and build up along with finding all the content and restarting from the beginning?

...

...

;_;

 

[Discrepancy]

"lose money" is a term you're injecting into my post. I did not state and I did not imply the words you're putting into my mouth.

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To imply that their access to similar metrics guarantees that they'll reach the most profitable conclusion 100% of the time is asinine

I used "lose money" as a if they release the update soon they will make more money, if they release later they will make less money, if this wasn't what your graph and post was inferring then let me know better because that was what I grasped from it.

If TD and Gil decide to release the update later is because they decide it, not us, the poll is to gauge opinion isn't like mandatory for their decision.

About the asinine thing, they have your data and more I'm sure, if they decide against releasing sooner is because they think their vision for the update is more important that the finances probably.

 

[seniorboop]

No more asinine than to believe profits is the only or the most important metric TD and GIL follow when deciding about when to release the game update and in which format (split day event or full event).

Commit. Do you believe they'll happily take payments in vibes? Do they have that privilege as a dev duo at 1.2k patrons 5 years in? Should they not consider their growth as paramount? What is your actual belief, you're dancing

 

[prpa]

For such a high-quality AVN seeing people genuinely argue for a wait while the dev sits at 1.2k patrons has me confused.

I wouldn't bother posting this if they were at least north of 3k.

I can only imagine the amount of lost leads that bounced after seeing their update timelines. It kills me the amount of people that fail to consider this and set good devs on the path of a plateau. Their patrons will remain their patrons whether they split it or not, but the potential supporter that looks at their timeline and is turned away because of it will never offer their support to begin with. Let me repeat in plain terms: the bag from current supporters is already secured, taking even longer to produce an update only ensures that bag is the only bag they'll have for however long it takes for the non-split update to drop.

These devs in particular are putting in entirely too much high-quality work for the comparatively low support they're receiving and I just can't see how anyone arguing in good faith can't see the net loss in failing to capitalize on two post-update support surges in comparison to one still months out. Although harder to track, this also doesn't account for the residual benefits of prolonging the exposure potential supporters have to their product through shortening their update timelines.

Going to drop this here so people are forced to actually look at this shit:

View attachment 5119844
View attachment 5119860

How is this even a discussion? How can anyone pro-wait consider that to be in the devs' best interest? Is it a lack of trust in their ability to deliver at a high quality if split? Looking at this from a mostly financial point of view I don't understand the logic of being pro-wait.

The only con I can see is in ignoring the outcome of the poll in favor of a split. Polling it was a terrible decision and there's an argument to be made that they bound themselves to not splitting the second they published it. A lesson to be learned regardless.

That graph you posted proves absolutely nothing. Go check other games on Patreon, there's always a spike in activity whenever a new update is released.

Yes, this game isn’t as popular as it should be, but that's not because of the long wait between updates. If you look at other games with even longer gaps between releases, you'll see that this holds true. I'm just guessing, but I think most people are hesitant to try this game because of the tags. Vanilla players might avoid it due to the more extreme content, NTR fans won't be interested because there's no NTR, etc. It's a shame, really, because the game is a masterpiece.

As I said before, I'm totally fine with waiting, but if it's in the developer's best interest to release it in parts, I won't complain, and I doubt others here or on Patreon will either.

 

[seniorboop]

That graph you posted proves absolutely nothing. Go check other games on Patreon, there's always a spike in activity whenever a new update is released.

I just can't see how anyone arguing in good faith can't see the net loss in failing to capitalize on two post-update support surges in comparison to one still months out.

Don't know why I broke my own rule and wasted my time

 

[lustforsex]

Honestly, I didn't want to continue this discussion after the Kameri post, but I would add that there are 2 people working on the game, which means that you can safely divide the subscribers by two if you want to compare similar projects by popularity and success.

I just threw this information in for further discussion, if someone didn't think about it

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Commit. Do you believe they'll happily take payments in vibes? Do they have that privilege as a dev duo at 1.2k patrons 5 years in? Should they not consider their growth as paramount? What is your actual belief, you're dancing

Payment in vibes? What are you talking about? Do you think supporters are leaving or that 1.2 thousands is too little as a indie developer?

Since you like graphs so much and seems to have some obsession with profits here is one for you:

A steady increase over the course of 3 years with peaks around the time there were releases.

 

[Darreau91]

For such a high-quality AVN seeing people genuinely argue for a wait while the dev sits at 1.2k patrons has me confused.

I wouldn't bother posting this if they were at least north of 3k.

I can only imagine the amount of lost leads that bounced after seeing their update timelines. It kills me the amount of people that fail to consider this and set good devs on the path of a plateau. Their patrons will remain their patrons whether they split it or not, but the potential supporter that looks at their timeline and is turned away because of it will never offer their support to begin with. Let me repeat in plain terms: the bag from current supporters is already secured, taking even longer to produce an update only ensures that bag is the only bag they'll have for however long it takes for the non-split update to drop.

These devs in particular are putting in entirely too much high-quality work for the comparatively low support they're receiving and I just can't see how anyone arguing in good faith can't see the net loss in failing to capitalize on two post-update support surges in comparison to one still months out. Although harder to track, this also doesn't account for the residual benefits of prolonging the exposure potential supporters have to their product through shortening their update timelines.

Going to drop this here so people are forced to actually look at this shit:

View attachment 5119844
View attachment 5119860

How is this even a discussion? How can anyone pro-wait consider that to be in the devs' best interest? Is it a lack of trust in their ability to deliver at a high quality if split? Looking at this from a mostly financial point of view I don't understand the logic of being pro-wait.

The only con I can see is in ignoring the outcome of the poll in favor of a split. Polling it was a terrible decision and there's an argument to be made that they bound themselves to not splitting the second they published it. A lesson to be learned regardless.

My 3 dollars a month got me feeling like a king of pro waiters. Devs revenue woes...



When the solution already exists:

 

[Turret]

These devs in particular are putting in entirely too much high-quality work for the comparatively low support they're receiving and I just can't see how anyone arguing in good faith can't see the net loss in failing to capitalize on two post-update support surges in comparison to one still months out. Although harder to track, this also doesn't account for the residual benefits of prolonging the exposure potential supporters have to their product through shortening their update timelines.(...)

How is this even a discussion? How can anyone pro-wait consider that to be in the devs' best interest? Is it a lack of trust in their ability to deliver at a high quality if split? Looking at this from a mostly financial point of view I don't understand the logic of being pro-wait.

THIS! 100% this. Exactly my argument. Overlong waits scare off the loosely interested and fencesitters. I once again want to mention the example of ORS. Patrons voted for waiting however long, the wait then was very long. Hurt the game seriously, because Eva Kiss, the dev, is trying very hard to reduce the waiting times for new chapters and a halfway consistent interval, even engaging more helpers. That is surefire proof how the year long wait hurt the game outside the patron bubble.

 

[Ozymandias037]

I was very solidly in the "wait until it's done" camp, but y'all have put forward some pretty solid arguments in favor of splitting. I don't think it's enough to make me completely switch teams, but it's definitely enough that I won't be disappointed if they decide to go that route. The financial incentives (assuming it actually works out that way) are pretty solid, but TD's point that in the long run it won't make any difference whatsoever was probably the most convincing one, IMO.

 

[Turret]

Payment in vibes? What are you talking about? Do you think supporters are leaving or that 1.2 thousands is too little as a indie developer?

Since you like graphs so much and seems to have some obsession with profits here is one for you:
View attachment 5119991
A steady increase over the course of 3 years with peaks around the time there were releases.

This is correct, but seniorboop is also right that PC has not the support this high grade product deserves! And while part of it is the content, which scares some vanilla and specific fetish players off, delivery of updates plays a role as well. Seniorboop and I do not suck this out of our fingers. I´m in logistics in real life and can assure you that the negative impact of inconsistent supply and overlong waiting times on products and services is severe!
I wish TD1900 , GIL3D and their really great game the very best and so I cannot be silent on this. It is the reason I was for a split from the start (even if I would like an all-in-one release too), esp. since we are now in an usual timeframe of an update.

 

[Darreau91]

THIS! 100% this. Exactly my argument. Overlong waits scare off the loosely interested and fencesitters. I once again want to mention the example of ORS. Patrons voted for waiting however long, the wait then was very long. Hurt the game seriously, because Eva Kiss, the dev, is trying very hard to reduce the waiting times for new chapters and a halfway consistent interval, even engaging more helpers. That is surefire proof how the year long wait hurt the game outside the patron bubble.

It didn’t help Eva’s quality dipped in some recent updates due to health reasons and still forcing out the updates. It resulted in EVA and her team reusing assets for sex scenes which is way more obvious then reusing dialogue assets in a porn game.

While there are a couple parallels between ORS and PC, the quality hasn’t dipped in the sex scenes and the updates have still been meaty for PC. It’s not a good comparison atm.

The highest revenue AVN, Being A Dik, is a year and half update schedule. The core base will be there and if the quality is still there, fringe payers will come around since quality AVNs aren’t unlimited. PC has been consistently on top of the weighted rating on F95 so the reputation and trust is there.

In marketing, scarcity will drive demand, see new IPhone launches or Grand Theft Auto. If money is the driving force, don’t pick a niche genre in BDSM while using the 2nd most popular “ game engine” that happens to be love it or hate it in Honey Select. That already knee capped revenue growth for PC.

 

[lustforsex]

It's sad to see how people are really starting to split into camps, although both sides have good arguments, and not just "the update is needed here and now because my pipi is already tired of waiting" or "let them cook because I can wait 2 years".

Btw, one YouTube channel that positions itself as an "AVN reviewer" released a video some time ago, where PC was on the list of games (which consists games that milk their audience or make long-term reworks) that he won't touch until it's completed, arguing that the development time between updates is very long (ofc he turns a blind eye to other projects with similar release schedules, but much less content).

I understand that it's stupid to rely on the opinion of such "reviewers", but no matter how stupid it may sound, they have an audience and set a trend. This is food for thought

 

[Idontplay]

It's sad to see how people are really starting to split into camps, although both sides have good arguments, and not just "the update is needed here and now because my pipi is already tired of waiting" or "let them cook because I can wait 2 years".

I call this "Not Enough Real Life Syndrome" and it is a very serious disease. For example, I can await two years without problems, but if the developers decide to split the update in two or three, to give us an update every eight months, I would not complain. Why? Because I have other and more important thing to care; in fact I have played some updates three or four months after the public release.

 

[Meiri]

I think you guys are being too dramatic, they asked their Patreons and gave them both options, they will be fine with either.

It's also not like their Patreon numbers are bad at all, even if they split revenue they have good numbers or at least to similar games.

 

[slightchance]

Ideas for the next polls:

1. Would we lose you as a paid member if we decided to split the update regardless of the last poll's outcome?
a) Yes.
b) No.

2. We love Hana as much as you do. Would you still play the game if she gets written out of the story?
a) Yes, she isn't an integral part of the story
b) No, I like her too much. Let's split the update.

3. Splitting the update won't change the overall quality of the game.
a) I agree.
b) No, I don't think so.

4. In a world where the average consumer has an increasingly short attention span, wouldn't splitting the next update be the more sensible option?
a) Yes, I strongly agree.
b) I actually prefer Gouda over Brie.

 

[Derek in a Bush]

So is the next update going to be 2 parts or one big one? I'm confused

 

[dolfe67]

So is the next update going to be 2 parts or one big one? I'm confused

It'll be revealed later, stay tuned!

 

[Ottoeight]

Ideas for the next polls:

1. Would we lose you as a paid member if we decided to split the update regardless of the last poll's outcome?
a) Yes.
b) No.

2. We love Hana as much as you do. Would you still play the game if she gets written out of the story?
a) Yes, she isn't an integral part of the story
b) No, I like her too much. Let's split the update.

3. Splitting the update won't change the overall quality of the game.
a) I agree.
b) No, I don't think so.

4. In a world where the average consumer has an increasingly short attention span, wouldn't be splitting the next update the more sensible option?
a) Yes, I strongly agree.
b) I actually prefer Gouda over Brie.

1. b)
2. b)
3. a)
4. c) I'd rather have grana padano, please.

 

[Ottoeight]

View attachment 5120073

My 3 dollars a month got me feeling like a king of pro waiters. Devs revenue woes...

View attachment 5120085

When the solution already exists:

View attachment 5120134

You're Goddamn right.

Period.