VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[jasonhxzy]

Jeeez, you guys are so annoying...

Why is that lol

 

[ffive]

Jeeez, you guys are so annoying...

Well, you can't put a highway right next to a kennel and expect the dogs not to whine they want to chase the cars...

 

[broxitar]

I really want to rescue Dahlia. It was hard seeing her do all those things for me at the "welcome" event, especially after she said how long she'd been "in this line of work." 15 years, wasn't it? That was...horrifying. She's not that old, so she must've been underage when she "got into it"...or was trafficked in. I wanted to steal her away and keep her to myself during the event, to protect her like she protected me. I felt bad for all the girls, but Dahlia...it was hard.

 

[ffive]

15 years, wasn't it? That was...horrifying. She's not that old, so she must've been underage when she "got into it"...or was trafficked in.

IIRC Dahlia is stated to be something like 34-36 on the game's profiles page, so that'd mean she got into this business when she was 19-20. Which is young for sure but not exactly underage.

 

[broxitar]

IIRC Dahlia is stated to be something like 34-36 on the game's profiles page, so that'd mean she got into this business when she was 19-20. Which is young for sure but not exactly underage.

Thanks. That's...something of a relief. Not much of one, given her circumstances, but still.

 

[strangelandQQ]

Are we sure that all the house girls were forced to work at the carnation club? Kimber was desperate that her shifts would be cut, Dahlia and Harper had been in business for more than 10 years, Andrea was on loan, and some of the girls even got pregnant at work.
The club is a terrible place, of course, but it's unlikely that EVERYONE is there against their will. I mean, all carnations participate in the exhibition voluntarily (technically). It would be very ironic (in a bad way) if the house girls could eventually leave the club, but the carnations would remain on the hook even after the exhibition , like Alisson

 

[Turret]

Are we sure that all the house girls were forced to work at the carnation club? Kimber was desperate that her shifts would be cut, Dahlia and Harper had been in business for more than 10 years, Andrea was on loan, and some of the girls even got pregnant at work.
The club is a terrible place, of course, but it's unlikely that EVERYONE is there against their will. I mean, all carnations participate in the exhibition voluntarily (technically). It would be very ironic (in a bad way) if the house girls could eventually leave the club, but the carnations would remain on the hook even after the exhibition , like Alisson

Hi!
The irony you mentioned is quite the case. House girls fall into August´s area, who views this as a business and runs it like one. Girls who left normally are mentioned in passing several times, it is also implied that most girls make serious money even with August´s profits counted out. We even see some "ranks" among the House girls with Dalia at the top, with Harper and Andrea(!) not so far away from her. Andrea uses August´s nickname with his knowledge, it is highly doubtful with what we know about him, that he would allow this to just anyone.
Carnations on the other hand fall into Kath´s area and she does not let them really leave. TD hinted at this quite early, stumbled over such a hint when I started a fresh playthrough here.

 

[ename144]

Are we sure that all the house girls were forced to work at the carnation club? Kimber was desperate that her shifts would be cut, Dahlia and Harper had been in business for more than 10 years, Andrea was on loan, and some of the girls even got pregnant at work.
The club is a terrible place, of course, but it's unlikely that EVERYONE is there against their will. I mean, all carnations participate in the exhibition voluntarily (technically). It would be very ironic (in a bad way) if the house girls could eventually leave the club, but the carnations would remain on the hook even after the exhibition , like Alisson

Forced is a tricky word in the context of this game. AFAWK, the house girls - just like the Carnations - are working voluntarily; they can theoretically quit at any time.

The issue is that there's a reason they are working there in the first place. For some (like Andrea), it may just be a job that pays well and has good perks so there's no reason to quit. But for others (Nicolette most clearly), working at the Club is evidently a way to settle existing debts, so quitting early would have dire consequences even if said consequences didn't come directly from the Club itself. I suspect that there are more girls in the latter camp than the former, and you could argue they are being "forced" in a loose sense of the word. But even they can eventually leave if they pay off their debt, and I definitely don't think all of them are forced, even in the loose sense.

IMHO, Allison is a bit of a special case. She's effectively in the former camp, but she's more of a freelancer since she has a lot of options open to her if she wanted to walk away. However, turning down ongoing 'offers' from the Club not only runs the risk of terminating her new career early, it will also deny her potentially lucrative options in the future, too. So I suspect she's relatively willing to answer Kathleen's summons in return for suitable compensation.

 

[Ottoeight]

Are we sure that all the house girls were forced to work at the carnation club? Kimber was desperate that her shifts would be cut, Dahlia and Harper had been in business for more than 10 years, Andrea was on loan, and some of the girls even got pregnant at work.
The club is a terrible place, of course, but it's unlikely that EVERYONE is there against their will. I mean, all carnations participate in the exhibition voluntarily (technically). It would be very ironic (in a bad way) if the house girls could eventually leave the club, but the carnations would remain on the hook even after the exhibition , like Alisson

Forced is a tricky word in the context of this game. AFAWK, the house girls - just like the Carnations - are working voluntarily; they can theoretically quit at any time.

The issue is that there's a reason they are working there in the first place. For some (like Andrea), it may just be a job that pays well and has good perks so there's no reason to quit. But for others (Nicolette most clearly), working at the Club is evidently a way to settle existing debts, so quitting early would have dire consequences even if said consequences didn't come directly from the Club itself. I suspect that there are more girls in the latter camp than the former, and you could argue they are being "forced" in a loose sense of the word. But even they can eventually leave if they pay off their debt, and I definitely don't think all of them are forced, even in the loose sense.

IMHO, Allison is a bit of a special case. She's effectively in the former camp, but she's more of a freelancer since she has a lot of options open to her if she wanted to walk away. However, turning down ongoing 'offers' from the Club not only runs the risk of terminating her new career early, it will also deny her potentially lucrative options in the future, too. So I suspect she's relatively willing to answer Kathleen's summons in return for suitable compensation.

Didn't you notice what Kathleen says about Rosalind's debt in this last update? what happened to the loan shark? what the club members tell about Elias being the next major? what Kath and Chuck imply about the club's endorsement? what Hana tells August about it? what Hana and Edwin realise about Allison being there even though she won the exhibition?

You'd better not owe the club,

you'd better not cross your path with them,

you'd better not know they exist,

you'd better not deal with them,

and most of all you'd better not be a carnation because they will own you forever: in this update Hana realised it, Edwin realised it and Elias realised it as well - this is why he tells Felicia that she'd better win the exhibition.

 

[Halsy]

i just finished the newest update and hooo boy, now i learned what a 100% sadism looks like. I enjoyed fcking Elias' wife to his back but what Kathleen did, i can't even explain, i feel bad for Felicia and especially Elias because he is actually a decent old guy compared to other old guys in the club. Makes me want to puke and I'm now scared on what Edwin got involved into cause it's obviously deeper than what we see and after this update, there's no escape for him unless the government get involved and bust this club. No wonder Darius ran off, i bet the story they made about him falling in love with the house girls that's why he ran off is actually not real, I can't trust these people anymore

 

[Idontplay]

Didn't you notice what Kathleen says about Rosalind's debt in this last update? what happened to the loan shark? what the club members tell about Elias being the next major? what Kath and Chuck imply about the club's endorsement? what Hana tells August about it? what Hana and Edwin realise about Allison being there even though she won the exhibition?

You'd better not owe the club,

you'd better not cross your path with them,

you'd better not know they exist,

you'd better not deal with them,

and most of all you'd better not be a carnation because they will own you forever: in this update Hana realised it, Edwin realised it and Elias realised it as well - this is why he tells Felicia that she'd better win the exhibition.

Let say that be involved with the club is like be in a death row: or you are the jailer or you are the sentenced.

 

[imagica]

Hi!
The irony you mentioned is quite the case. House girls fall into August´s area, who views this as a business and runs it like one. Girls who left normally are mentioned in passing several times, it is also implied that most girls make serious money even with August´s profits counted out. We even see some "ranks" among the House girls with Dalia at the top, with Harper and Andrea(!) not so far away from her. Andrea uses August´s nickname with his knowledge, it is highly doubtful with what we know about him, that he would allow this to just anyone.
Carnations on the other hand fall into Kath´s area and she does not let them really leave. TD hinted at this quite early, stumbled over such a hint when I started a fresh playthrough here.
View attachment 5346304

Actually, any of the current house girls can be a former Carnations who lost and were offered the way to repay the debt by working in the club as an escort.

 

[Meiri]

i just finished the newest update and hooo boy, now i learned what a 100% sadism looks like. I enjoyed fcking Elias' wife to his back but what Kathleen did, i can't even explain, i feel bad for Felicia and especially Elias because he is actually a decent old guy compared to other old guys in the club. Makes me want to puke and I'm now scared on what Edwin got involved into cause it's obviously deeper than what we see and after this update, there's no escape for him unless the government get involved and bust this club. No wonder Darius ran off, i bet the story they made about him falling in love with the house girls that's why he ran off is actually not real, I can't trust these people anymore

I don't know about feeling sorry for Elias. He's just another corrupt politician who sees his wife as a trophy and has no qualms about cheating with other women. I would even say Kathleen and Chuck have been very considerate of him, given the potential for humiliation, and have put it all on Felicia.

They know they want a strong Elias by their side but have no qualms about breaking Felicia in the process.

 

[UmbralKnight]

here are my thoughts about the lastest update:

if you want a short answer instead of reading my entire rant
I will say it's an excellent update which finally answers lot of plot related questions and theories

but first i want explain a few things before i get accused by being a contraian or a butthurt veroncia fanboy

my hard disk died and i lost all my saves so i had to play the game from the beginning and unlike my previous min-maxed or veronica only path saves this time i tried to pursue all the available LIs except mina and see how that turns out

replaying the game from the begining proved to be a good choice since a lot of what was forshadowed in the earlier updates have finally been revealed

even minor things mentioned in small conversions later turned out to be central plot points

that being said i would say this update has been polarising for a single reason
something that makes me angry the more i think about it

that polarising thing is getting "cock blocked" narratively
this update could have been THE BEST update
it ALREADY had already EVERYTHING it needed from a story stand point for it to be great and it had all the momentum going for it too from the way the last update ended

i will admit i am not skilled in writing or literature for that matter so this just PURELY my opinion but even i can tell you that you get narratively cock blocked ATLEAST thrice in this update

this update's plotline is a culmination of years worth of content and previous plotlines coming together finally
something everyone was eagerly anticipating from the very first update

what happens when Victoria finally finds out that her son knows her secret?
how will elias react to his wife being a carnation?
what happened to Darius ?
how will ian feel when he knows the truth about vicky ?

BOOM

cockblocked

almost every one of those moments had been slowly building up to a powerful scene and BOOM when that scene actually happens you get some kind of narrative cliffhanger again or it's left unresolved AGAIN

It pretty much kills any kind of smooth narrativeflow and all those years worth of hype along with it

now i understand why you get "cockblocked" in the beginning of the update
last update ended with a huge revelation and it would be too "soap opera-ish" for it to immediately begin where it left off
the story needs some time to "breathe in" and it helps set things up yes that i can understand and appreciate
I also understand why the story ended in huge cliff hanger just when things were finally getting good
but what i don't like is getting cockblocked all those times in between for example with Ian and the whole darius subplot

this update even with all the current existing scenes as it is
if it was just "rearranged" or "reoriented" properly without all the forced narrative cockblocks it would have THE BEST update easily

this update could have been about that one bad day where anything that could go wrong does go wrong for the MC it would have his whole world turned upside down and suddenly now his is facing problems back to back both in his home and at this work

it would have definitely pushed the MC to his breaking point and could have been used to show how deep in trouble he really is in now

but alas instead we get cockblocked when things were getting good

that's was my major gripe with this update
other than that the only other bad thing that I can think of from a narrative point of view is about how MC faces no repercussions for screwing around with the carnations

the story is nearly around the half way mark right?
yet MC keeps having fun with every girl and faces no major consequences for his actions

none of the carnations even suspect that the MC is sleeping around with the other carnations or that he is manipulating them/helping the other girl(s) secretly

rose is the only one who even asks if the MC is sleeping around with the other girls (she even says that she expects someone like felicia to do exactly that to gain an advantage) funnily enough she outright dismiss that Veronica is incapable of such a thing and completely belives the the MC when he denies it

she should have been suspicious or atleast curious given that BOTH ian and MC knew felicia before she became a carnation and after seeing what happened to lucy she should have more cautious and suspicious of MC and his intentions
she could easily suspect him of manipulating her or having another "deal" with Felicia like the one he does with her

besides we have already seen few other characters who know or atleast suspect that the MC is sleeping around with the carnations like ian who walked in when Veronica and MC were having a private moment or mina during the show

kathleen and warren would DEFINITELY know about MC sleeping around
maybe others do too

but nothing has happened YET
and that's kind of disappointing

alright that's all the negative factors i can think of and now with all that out of the way I can finally discuss about all the good stuff I loved

I don't if there is any word limit to comments and it's already becoming too large to read so I am going to stop it here and post a new comment next with all details

 

[Fapparition]

I don't know about feeling sorry for Elias. He's just another corrupt politician who sees his wife as a trophy and has no qualms about cheating with other women. I would even say Kathleen and Chuck have been very considerate of him, given the potential for humiliation, and have put it all on Felicia.

They know they want a strong Elias by their side but have no qualms about breaking Felicia in the process.

Is he really that corrupt? I don’t remember the game ever explicitly saying so. But even if it did, compared to the other patrons of the club — most of whom instantly give you the ick — Elias just feels like 'just a dude'. And maybe that's the problem as most people would look normal if you placed them next to the club’s members. But that what the latest update does.

The game seems to go out of its way to portray Elias in a positive light, which makes me wonder about his role as an actor within the story. At first, it seemed like he was simply a supporting piece in Felicia’s narrative, but now I think he also serves as a lens through which we can better understand the club itself — what its patrons were like before joining, what they’ve become after, and how Carnation club is actually an institution of forging connections and the whole deprivity thing is just a bounding tool...

Also, you do realize that Elias and Felicia’s marriage is more of a deal or partnership than a romantic relationship, right? Felicia gains social status and financial freedom, while Elias gets a beautiful, obedient wife to display for appearances. So yes — Elias “cheats” on Felicia, Felicia “cheats” on him, and both are fully aware and fine with it; they just don’t talk about it directly. For me, that doesn’t make Elias a worse character. I wouldn’t say I feel sorry for Elias, but I also wouldn’t say “heh, he deserved it” either.

Your last sentence actually made me think. If the Carnation Club is truly about forming connections, then it makes sense they’d want Elias to become stronger. In the worst-case scenario — if Felicia loses the game — Elias would probably divorce her, which wouldn’t look good publicly. But as things stand, Elias seems weaker than most of the other patrons, he's under them, and maybe this whole situation is meant to make him more… what’s the right word? Thick-skinned, calloused, ruthless? And if Felicia's downfall will make Elias go through this kind of metamorphosis then maybe that's a reasonable price to pay?

 

[Turret]

here are my thoughts about the lastest update:

if you want a short answer instead of reading my entire rant
I will say it's an excellent update which finally answers lot of plot related questions and theories

but first i want explain a few things before i get accused by being a contraian or a butthurt veroncia fanboy

my hard disk died and i lost all my saves so i had to play the game from the beginning and unlike my previous min-maxed or veronica only path saves this time i tried to pursue all the available LIs except mina and see how that turns out

replaying the game from the begining proved to be a good choice since a lot of what was forshadowed in the earlier updates have finally been revealed

even minor things mentioned in small conversions later turned out to be central plot points

that being said i would say this update has been polarising for a single reason
something that makes me angry the more i think about it

that polarising thing is getting "cock blocked" narratively
this update could have been THE BEST update
it ALREADY had already EVERYTHING it needed from a story stand point for it to be great and it had all the momentum going for it too from the way the last update ended

i will admit i am not skilled in writing or literature for that matter so this just PURELY my opinion but even i can tell you that you get narratively cock blocked ATLEAST thrice in this update

this update's plotline is a culmination of years worth of content and previous plotlines coming together finally
something everyone was eagerly anticipating from the very first update

what happens when Victoria finally finds out that her son knows her secret?
how will elias react to his wife being a carnation?
what happened to Darius ?
how will ian feel when he knows the truth about vicky ?

BOOM

cockblocked

almost every one of those moments had been slowly building up to a powerful scene and BOOM when that scene actually happens you get some kind of narrative cliffhanger again or it's left unresolved AGAIN

It pretty much kills any kind of smooth narrativeflow and all those years worth of hype along with it

now i understand why you get "cockblocked" in the beginning of the update
last update ended with a huge revelation and it would be too "soap opera-ish" for it to immediately begin where it left off
the story needs some time to "breathe in" and it helps set things up yes that i can understand and appreciate
I also understand why the story ended in huge cliff hanger just when things were finally getting good
but what i don't like is getting cockblocked all those times in between for example with Ian and the whole darius subplot

this update even with all the current existing scenes as it is
if it was just "rearranged" or "reoriented" properly without all the forced narrative cockblocks it would have THE BEST update easily

this update could have been about that one bad day where anything that could go wrong does go wrong for the MC it would have his whole world turned upside down and suddenly now his is facing problems back to back both in his home and at this work

it would have definitely pushed the MC to his breaking point and could have been used to show how deep in trouble he really is in now

but alas instead we get cockblocked when things were getting good

that's was my major gripe with this update
other than that the only other bad thing that I can think of from a narrative point of view is about how MC faces no repercussions for screwing around with the carnations

the story is nearly around the half way mark right?
yet MC keeps having fun with every girl and faces no major consequences for his actions

none of the carnations even suspect that the MC is sleeping around with the other carnations or that he is manipulating them/helping the other girl(s) secretly

rose is the only one who even asks if the MC is sleeping around with the other girls (she even says that she expects someone like felicia to do exactly that to gain an advantage) funnily enough she outright dismiss that Veronica is incapable of such a thing and completely belives the the MC when he denies it

she should have been suspicious or atleast curious given that BOTH ian and MC knew felicia before she became a carnation and after seeing what happened to lucy she should have more cautious and suspicious of MC and his intentions
she could easily suspect him of manipulating her or having another "deal" with Felicia like the one he does with her

besides we have already seen few other characters who know or atleast suspect that the MC is sleeping around with the carnations like ian who walked in when Veronica and MC were having a private moment or mina during the show

kathleen and warren would DEFINITELY know about MC sleeping around
maybe others do too

but nothing has happened YET
and that's kind of disappointing

alright that's all the negative factors i can think of and now with all that out of the way I can finally discuss about all the good stuff I loved

I don't if there is any word limit to comments and it's already becoming too large to read so I am going to stop it here and post a new comment next with all details

Hi!
Well Chummer, your problem here is that you follow only the corrupted Himbo route. There are Edwin paths where you don´t sleep with any skirt in the area (gasp), also there are paths where the girls and you have understandings what goes and what goes not.
Case in point, in one of my playthroughs our hero slept with most girls (most, since some of them I would only go to if the survival of humankind was on the line), but never cheated! Given that PC is partly a morality examination, I am sure the full blown cheaters will have a bad awakening, but not today.

The game seems to go out of its way to portray Elias in a positive light, which makes me wonder about his role as an actor within the story. At first, it seemed like he was simply a supporting piece in Felicia’s narrative, but now I think he also serves as a lens through which we can better understand the club itself — what its patrons were like before joining, what they’ve become after, and how Carnation club is actually an institution of forging connections and the whole deprivity thing is just a bounding tool...

Hi!
I agree with you that Elias is the first VIP member (important distinction since PC also caters to normal people with enough money as a simple high brow bordello and escort service) we see BEFORE he becomes a club member. Given what we can learn throughout the game about the VIP club and what it does to people is disturbing at best.
Even a hardened criminal like August is not amused what happens there and that he also dislikes Kath with a passion (it´s mutual) and worries about Chuck, his oldest friend, if his mental "problems" are slowly getting him. The corruptive effect Kath and Chuck have on both Carnations and VIP members cannot be understated, esp. with the info we can gain in the new update.
As I monetioned in earlier posts, in the beginning the choice between staying in the club or leaving after becoming a doctor seemed more stylistic, since the facade of a sex club and high class bordello was intact.
A "white" or "grey" hat Edwin now has only the choices to go or bringing massive changes to the club, if staying. The club as it is is a den of depravity, back stabbing, power and corruption. What we learned so far does explain a part of the reasons Abel and Sophia are in the club. It is easier to fight something from the inside than from the outside.

 

[Meiri]

Is he really that corrupt? I don’t remember the game ever explicitly saying so. But even if it did, compared to the other patrons of the club — most of whom instantly give you the ick — Elias just feels like 'just a dude'. And maybe that's the problem as most people would look normal if you placed them next to the club’s members. But that what the latest update does.

The game seems to go out of its way to portray Elias in a positive light, which makes me wonder about his role as an actor within the story. At first, it seemed like he was simply a supporting piece in Felicia’s narrative, but now I think he also serves as a lens through which we can better understand the club itself — what its patrons were like before joining, what they’ve become after, and how Carnation club is actually an institution of forging connections and the whole deprivity thing is just a bounding tool...

Also, you do realize that Elias and Felicia’s marriage is more of a deal or partnership than a romantic relationship, right? Felicia gains social status and financial freedom, while Elias gets a beautiful, obedient wife to display for appearances. So yes — Elias “cheats” on Felicia, Felicia “cheats” on him, and both are fully aware and fine with it; they just don’t talk about it directly. For me, that doesn’t make Elias a worse character. I wouldn’t say I feel sorry for Elias, but I also wouldn’t say “heh, he deserved it” either.

Your last sentence actually made me think. If the Carnation Club is truly about forming connections, then it makes sense they’d want Elias to become stronger. In the worst-case scenario — if Felicia loses the game — Elias would probably divorce her, which wouldn’t look good publicly. But as things stand, Elias seems weaker than most of the other patrons, he's under them, and maybe this whole situation is meant to make him more… what’s the right word? Thick-skinned, calloused, ruthless? And if Felicia's downfall will make Elias go through this kind of metamorphosis then maybe that's a reasonable price to pay?

Well, the club has the absolute worst kind of people in it, so yeah, compared to that, Elias may seem like a paragon of virtue. However, I disagree with the notion that the game goes out of its way to portray him in a positive light, maybe he is a bit more "gray" than the other patrons.

It’s a marriage of convenience for both of them, and whenever Felicia has asked something of Elias—even if it was a small gesture for him—he has quickly denied her. To me, this indicates that he will have no problem dropping her the moment she's no longer useful to him.

I somewhat agree with your point that Elias may seem weaker than most other Patrons right now, but I would like to point out that you don't become that kind of politician without being ruthless and thick-skinned.

Like you, I think this whole thing is a setup by Kathleen and the club to elevate Elias into one of them, while making Felicia take all the blame. This, in turn, will give them a powerful political ally. And based on how the current content ends, I don't even think Elias will have any concerns with divorcing her if Felicia stops being useful to him.

It remains to be seen if a well-intentioned Edwin could try to counter-influence him into at least making that divorce a bit more amicable for Felicia, as I think at this point it's pretty much unavoidable.

 

[ruby_rubicon]

... If the Carnation Club is truly about forming connections, then it makes sense they’d want Elias to become stronger. In the worst-case scenario — if Felicia loses the game — Elias would probably divorce her, which wouldn’t look good publicly. But as things stand, Elias seems weaker than most of the other patrons, he's under them, and maybe this whole situation is meant to make him more… what’s the right word? Thick-skinned, calloused, ruthless? And if Felicia's downfall will make Elias go through this kind of metamorphosis then maybe that's a reasonable price to pay?

Slowly coming to the realization that the game may be about the downfall of Elias, more than a random kid screwing around prostitutes. Our point of view is through a pretty irrelevant guy - so far witnessing the sacrifices power demands and how little dignity is left at the end.

I like that!

 

[UmbralKnight]

now that we are talking about the good stuff
i liked the fact that elias gets "humanised" and we are seeing a sympathetic "side" of him even though he was pretty much an antagonist if you were on felicias path from the beginning
but even if you're not on Felicia's path it helps you understand how the club members get roped in and then get twisted further by people like kathleen ,chuck
sure elias is not a "good" guy but him and a few others like him in the club like mihir and edward thorne are just a bunch of degenerates nothing truly bad or evil meanwhile rest of the members of the club are outright abusive like that shelby guy or sexualpredators like issak but the worst among them all are people like kathleen ,abel ,chuck who are genuinely sick and twisted in the head and so are their underlings like warren and sophie

there is even a split between the club girls too

kimber purely does it for the money, andrea is still naive or perhaps too airdheaded to understand what's going on
dalia even though she says she has only good intentions for the girls she has been in the game too long so i guess her hands aren't exactly clean ( she is similar to hana in that regard maybe this is what "boss hana" will look like working for Kathleen/August in future)
lucy is pretty much same as roselind
she says she hates being a whore and she does it only because of her child but she enjoys it too much
allison and felicia are kind of mirrors of eachother both are "artists" who think they can make it but the way to do that is by gold digging
so now we are seeing that there are circles with the club circles within circles between members and between the girls
It's probably going to get only messier for MC ,ian and Hana as they are now slowly being reeled into this world

who knows which circle or faction they will end up leaning more?

but with allision we finally have an understanding of what happened in the previous games and what happened to it's participants afterwards

visually she looks great ,reminds me of emma frost
she keeps teasing about darius but we don't learn anything useful from her
but this does vindicate one of my previous theories
whether you win or lose once you get too deep in the club business you're never leaving doesn't matter in the end
https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-4-up-6-public-mutt-jeff.50281/post-17796246

most people who complain about it are those who think if any of the LIs ever have sex with anyone other than the MC
then it's "cuck" or "NTR" even if the LIs have done it before meeting the MC or even if it's in an alternative scenario depending on the MCs choice

most definitions and semantics people use to define their opinions on such topics are very vague too

but such comparisons doesn't end there with defining who is a "cuck" or what can be considered as "NTR"

for example i remember arguing with multiple people few months ago over sexuality of Veronica and whether she truly liked/loves the MC or not

their main arguments were that since is a bi-sexual women who leans heavily towards the lesbian side

she can't by the general definition of the word truly ever love the MC as she loves women and she and the MC can't be together in the future as the best they could hope for is a fling

all of them even though have played the same game and seen the same scenes with the MC and Veronica seem to dissociate from what they're literally seeing and playing in because of some vague definition in their mind of what they consider a lesbian/bi woman should be like



not to sound like a complete contrarian
but i would rather have an alternative ending for a character i love like Veronica where she "leaves" the game earlier in a short and sweet ending rather than force here to be a participant all way the through to the final ending and to only torment her further for amusement of the club patrons

after all from a purely meta narrative point of view if you truly love/like a character would you rather hope that they get a sweet ending or would you just like the members of the ingame club wish to put them through all kinds of tests,trials and tribulations for your entertainment and more "content"

for example i would rather have Veronica quit or just have some kind of Deus Ex Machina ending rather than again be humiliated or put through some kind of sick and twisted punishment like what happened when she hit samson

but everyone knows that's what going to happen if she sticks around till the final episode of the game and worse things could happen to her if she looses the final round

it could happen to any of the LIs too
everyone of them will be subjected to further and further humiliations and torment as the game gets closer and closer to it's finale

so that's why I would prefer that i character i love getting an earlier end off rather than be dragged all the way to the ending to suffer more

sure i would hate the fact that cutting off a character prematurely before the ending means less content for that particular character and it would definitely impact the storyline of that particular character too

but it would work in favour of the character depending on the ending and the epilogue of the game

like i said i before would rather have alternative short and sweet pre-finale ending for Veronica than see her dragged all the way to the finale then watch her get humiliated even further only to see her end up a permanent slave for the club would be too depressing and bleak

Infact if there was a choice similar to that of what sophie or grace was offering to the MC but instead of jobs if one of the patrons offered an "out" for Veronica before the finale in exchange for say
helping abel find some leverage against chuck or kathy
It would be preferable to seeing end up like allision or lucy
But
I am hoping that there would be atleast 1 "good" ending for each character instead a bunch of "gotcha" endings where even in the best possible ending there are some unsaid but lingering bad implications

but hey atleast she is "safe" for now unlike other carnations

meanwhile the club can already now "own" rose if you chose kathleen to deal with her debt situation
plus felicia also got pretty much "upgraded" into a permanent member of the club
buuuut she does have her husband along with her for the ride whether she wants it or not
after all like kathy put it she and her husband are the club's first "power couple" so now she potentially has one other person watching her back other the MC assuming elias doesn't completely turn her back on her (ian is also her friend that makes it what 3 potential allies in the club ? )
but I don't think he can afford to turn on felicia at this point
considering how the club has the leash on him and who knows judging from what's happening maybe the only person elias can trust in the club is ironically Felicia!

finally that leaves out only Veronica who by her own admission has been picking fights with Kathy
she has painted a very large target on her back and has noone to back her up if things go badly
both within and outside the club

speaking of the club and veronica i think I know what kathy is going to do break her
the game has been already dropping too many hints about Veronica and wedding unless it's all a big set up for a wedding ending ( a man can only hope )
I think i know what's going to happen
like what happened earlier with Veronica and dancing i think it's all leading upto something but in this case it's leading up to something bad
Kathy has been playing the long game
we know from what happened to Felicia and the art gallery she often sends her minions or "associates" to do the dirty work and Veronica's coach danny somehow suddenly happens to bump into her and talks about her ex getting remarried and asks her if it's alright with her if he goes to the wedding ?

yeah I don't buy it
her ex and the wedding is somehow connected to all this

but hey any ronnie content is good enough for me
like that small texting scene in this update

and one final note
even though i like that sound track i think it was by helium
you know that one that first plays when MC and Felicia are on the car when they're returning from the art museum

i forget it's exact track name but yeah that sound kept is repeating what 4 or 5 times ?

I know it plays for different scenes and for different LIs but I can't help notice it's recurring too frequently and within a short span of time too
maybe some of them can be replaced hopefully

Well Chummer, your problem here is that you follow only the corrupted Himbo route. There are Edwin paths where you don´t sleep with any skirt in the area (gasp), also there are paths where the girls and you have understandings what goes and what goes not.
Case in point, in one of my playthroughs our hero slept with most girls (most, since some of them I would only go to if the survival of humankind was on the line), but never cheated! Given that PC is partly a morality examination, I am sure the full blown cheaters will have a bad awakening, but not today.

Hello Again

this is the first time i am trying the "himbo" route btw
my previous playthroughs were based on saves where I had either exclusively focused only on Veronica or the min-maxed vanilla nice guy MC who is just "friends" with everyone but tries to help them all
no cheating on hana (or any other girl) or stealing mina from ian

so when I tried playing the "himbo" route
you know the guy who literally sleeps with any woman he possibly can
i was hoping for some kind of negative pushback
maybe kathy says she knows what you're upto
maybe one of the other carnations walks in when you're having fun with one of the girls (this almost happened this update Rose could have walked in when MC and Veronica were wrestling in the dressing room)
or maybe august gets annoyed that you're sleeping around his daughter with his whores in his own establishment

literally any kind of negative push back
but i guess we have to wait a bit longer

 

[Halsy]

I don't know about feeling sorry for Elias. He's just another corrupt politician who sees his wife as a trophy and has no qualms about cheating with other women. I would even say Kathleen and Chuck have been very considerate of him, given the potential for humiliation, and have put it all on Felicia.

They know they want a strong Elias by their side but have no qualms about breaking Felicia in the process.

After thinking and processing about it, yeah I agree with you. I just don't like the humiliation part of the scene which made me a little empathetic.