VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Meiri]

Exactly! There is the "conventional ntr (or simply ntr)", in which the woman fucks other men and there is the "rerverse ntr", in which the man is the one who fucks other women. If you follow the Hana's boyfriend path, you are de facto in a reverse ntr path.
Or it is nts? I'm not sure if in this contest it is more appropriate say "reverse netorare" or "reverse netorase", but this isn't the point.

Netorare is usually explored from the perspective of the person being cheated on, In Netori the perspective is on you "stealing" another guy's wife or gf, I think that's important because it's usually what people assume when they see those tags.
Here so far I would describe it as just plain cheating because the focus hasn't been on Hana discovering it or dealing with it, so not the usual Netorare or Netori focus.

 

[ename144]

Could you share what she could have added? Genuinely interested because IMO even without her confession Edwin is still only a single step removed from "knowing" that Chuck has been involved since Victora started thanks to Andrea introducing him to the producer. I agree that the more time we have to stew on "the decision" the better but realistically due to the nature of the game (VN) I didnt think it would be a week out. Doubly so when the exhibitions are already so deep and complex and naturally a "game ending decision" type choice should have more than just simple dialog changes.

IMHO the MC learning that, say, Chuck knew about Victoria's career and made it a point to watch some of her films or even sponsored her to make a few to his specifications would have added a much needed tension to the Club scenes later in the Update. As is, it feels like the MC is making a concerted effort not to dwell on any of the (many!) unsavory things he sees as the night unfolds.

To a certain extent I get it; the MC isn't willing to openly defy Kathleen about Felicia, and he wants a break from worrying about Darius and his mom. But it's a stark contrast from his normal, almost crippling introspection. The end result is a sense that the MC has fully bought into his new life - even if his actions to that point demonstrate that he has not. If the MC had to juggle his rational need for the job with his emotional revulsion at the darker side of Chuck finally coming into view, I think it would have allowed events to play out with a lot more nuance and still fit into the larger picture.

But that's just my take. It's entirely possible this wouldn't have worked with whatever TD has planned for us.

All of this is off the assumption that the shake up when the full backstory is revealed is going to be pretty intense. I mean edwin doesnt even really like grace (beyond her being hot) and he still punched a wall, I just dont see a more intense version of that playing well with all the stresses of the exhibition...but him going off on Kathleen as soon as she talks any shit would be funny

I have to assume the shake up is going to be at least somewhat intense, as otherwise why not put all the cards on the table now?

But there are degrees of intensity here. Obviously learning that, say, Chuck raped Vicky or anything like that would provoke a game terminating response immediately, but I think there are dramatic reveals that could still leave the MC capable of playing nice with his employers even if he was inwardly pissed at them. The MC only flipped out when he learned that Grace tried to blackmail his mom into controlling his friend (and Grace's on son!), and even then he got himself back under control pretty quickly. That's a high bar to match, much less exceed.

Edit: Doesnt Edwin already heavily question the Club? Or do you mean specifically in relation to Victoria?

I mean in general, not specifically about Vicky. The MC has questioned the Club in the past, though he generally does so obliquely, even in his own mind. There are only a handful of times when he's expressed genuine doubt about whether he wants to keep working there, and most of those are framed as it not being a long-term career.

As we get closer to the end of the game, I feel like it's time for the MC to start contemplating his feelings on the Club a little more vigorously (assuming we encourage that angle, obviously). Instead, it felt to me like the MC toned down his oblique criticism instead, which was very frustrating to me. YMMV.

 

[DarkLords00]

IMHO the MC learning that, say, Chuck knew about Victoria's career and made it a point to watch some of her films or even sponsored her to make a few to his specifications would have added a much needed tension to the Club scenes later in the Update. As is, it feels like the MC is making a concerted effort not to dwell on any of the (many!) unsavory things he sees as the night unfolds.

To a certain extent I get it; the MC isn't willing to openly defy Kathleen about Felicia, and he wants a break from worrying about Darius and his mom. But it's a stark contrast from his normal, almost crippling introspection. The end result is a sense that the MC has fully bought into his new life - even if his actions to that point demonstrate that he has not. If the MC had to juggle his rational need for the job with his emotional revulsion at the darker side of Chuck finally coming into view, I think it would have allowed events to play out with a lot more nuance and still fit into the larger picture.

But that's just my take. It's entirely possible this wouldn't have worked with whatever TD has planned for us.

Unfortunately, I think this is a side effect of how the narrative is constructed, since the story is building up to the MC making the final choice of staying or leaving the Club Edwin can't feel too strongly against the place otherwise he would choose to bail on them earlier. It's the same thing how an introspective Ian if called by Edwin to help creer up Victoria he will rant about how shitty he feels about himself with his actions towards Mina and newfound feelings of disgust towards Victoria but he won't mention to Edwin anyting about him feeling bad for any of the stuff he has done at the club.

Hopefully, once we enter the final week Edwin and Killian will be already pretty much set on their feelings regarding what has happened in the club and what they both have done inside it.

 

[dolfe67]

The dichotomy of the MC, and the players, the ones who want to embrace the club and the others who want to burn it down, is kinda hard to manage. Good luck to the devs.

 

[emme_]

Hey guys, how do I get August to trust me? Thank you

 

[Turret]

I mean in general, not specifically about Vicky. The MC has questioned the Club in the past, though he generally does so obliquely, even in his own mind. There are only a handful of times when he's expressed genuine doubt about whether he wants to keep working there, and most of those are framed as it not being a long-term career.

As we get closer to the end of the game, I feel like it's time for the MC to start contemplating his feelings on the Club a little more vigorously (assuming we encourage that angle, obviously). Instead, it felt to me like the MC toned down his oblique criticism instead, which was very frustrating to me. YMMV.

Hi ename144!
Like DarkLords00 already mentioned, since we the players have options how we can play our hero, from total revulsion to total debauchery, Edwin currently cannot feel/introspect too much one way or the other on the main storyline so far. But our choices count, add up and give us responses. Like in the orgy. If you wade in and have fun, you get the feedback "I love Carnations club" several times. You take a few steps more along the dark path of corruption, since the mono- and dialog makes it pretty clear that you do not simply swim along in the stream, but partake with intention.

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Doing nothing at all is showing the way to the white path. You even learn more about what a sinkhole of humanity Chuck and Kath made the club.

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And last, but not least Sophia´s way, the grey path. She opposes the Club, but also takes some enjoyment. But different from the others, in their own space.

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Hey guys, how do I get August to trust me? Thank you

August is not easy to get to trust you. You have to gather several trust points for this. Currently you can max your relations with him and on the way to be trusted, but unless I overlooked a choice, the rest of the needed trust points can only be gathered in future updates.

 

[TD1900]

To a certain extent I get it; the MC isn't willing to openly defy Kathleen about Felicia, and he wants a break from worrying about Darius and his mom. But it's a stark contrast from his normal, almost crippling introspection. The end result is a sense that the MC has fully bought into his new life - even if his actions to that point demonstrate that he has not. If the MC had to juggle his rational need for the job with his emotional revulsion at the darker side of Chuck finally coming into view, I think it would have allowed events to play out with a lot more nuance and still fit into the larger picture.

But that's just my take. It's entirely possible this wouldn't have worked with whatever TD has planned for us.

I like to think at this point Edwin's ability to compartmentalize is established. It was a deliberate choice to cut out the usual noise in his head, as at this point in the story, it's been beaten to death. There's a train barreling toward Felicia that he can do nothing about, on a path she put herself on. Quantum Edwin obviously doesn't feel great about it, but the club's cruelty is also becoming business as usual.

Something will certainly need to pull him from his growing complacency, eh? That is the line of thinking.

 

[T51bwinterized]

I do like where we are as far as settup.

Mina's been settup for a discovery of the club during this coming week. I'm hoping that it happens near the start of the week, so that way that conflict can hang over the rest of the final quarter of the game. It's been teased out so long that it's better if there's *some* time for it to play out.

Hana has her conflict nicely settup. My prediction for the next segment is that she's going to have to do something during the exhibition that genuinely challenges her morals, or else she'll discover a part of herself in the proceedings that leaves her revolted and unsure if she should come back again.

Then each of the three contestants appears to be in the midst of some kind of settup that's leaving them in a position where the club may "Own" them if they lose. Felicia losing her kushy trophy wife life, Rose's debt being bought by the club. I assume there's some kind of finale to the "gym" arc with Veronica that's being settup with Samson for her Week 4 storyline.

@TD1900 My one request (speaking as a Patron) is that we get some kind of scene involving Hana in a "Carnation" collar and stockings. You've already settup the "Roleplaying as a Whore" kink, but all the versions of it so far have been tame. I'd really go crazy for a scene where she wants to show the MC something, and she's waiting for him in the dungeons in a carnation collar, to be his "personal" carnation.

Maybe you have plans for her that remove the need for any such roleplay dimension, but that's the potential scene I'd find hottest.

 

[Simpgor]

The dichotomy of the MC, and the players, the ones who want to embrace the club and the others who want to burn it down, is kinda hard to manage. Good luck to the devs.

There is a perk called firestarter but where is the perk called "club stayer" seems pretty clear cut to me

 

[Ozymandias037]

So... Who's the winner?

Us. All of us players. Obviously.

Exactly! There is the "conventional ntr (or simply ntr)", in which the woman fucks other men and there is the "rerverse ntr", in which the man is the one who fucks other women. If you follow the Hana's boyfriend path, you are de facto in a reverse ntr path.
Or it is nts? I'm not sure if in this contest it is more appropriate say "reverse netorare" or "reverse netorase", but this isn't the point.

In this case, what some people are choosing to call cheating or "reverse NTR" or whatever, Hana and Edwin think of as "Edwin literally doing his job." Assuming, of course, that Edwin sticks to his promise of staying away from others outside the exhibitions.

IMHO the MC learning that, say, Chuck knew about Victoria's career and made it a point to watch some of her films or even sponsored her to make a few to his specifications would have added a much needed tension to the Club scenes later in the Update. As is, it feels like the MC is making a concerted effort not to dwell on any of the (many!) unsavory things he sees as the night unfolds.

To a certain extent I get it; the MC isn't willing to openly defy Kathleen about Felicia, and he wants a break from worrying about Darius and his mom. But it's a stark contrast from his normal, almost crippling introspection. The end result is a sense that the MC has fully bought into his new life - even if his actions to that point demonstrate that he has not. If the MC had to juggle his rational need for the job with his emotional revulsion at the darker side of Chuck finally coming into view, I think it would have allowed events to play out with a lot more nuance and still fit into the larger picture.

But that's just my take. It's entirely possible this wouldn't have worked with whatever TD has planned for us.


I have to assume the shake up is going to be at least somewhat intense, as otherwise why not put all the cards on the table now?

But there are degrees of intensity here. Obviously learning that, say, Chuck raped Vicky or anything like that would provoke a game terminating response immediately, but I think there are dramatic reveals that could still leave the MC capable of playing nice with his employers even if he was inwardly pissed at them. The MC only flipped out when he learned that Grace tried to blackmail his mom into controlling his friend (and Grace's on son!), and even then he got himself back under control pretty quickly. That's a high bar to match, much less exceed.


I mean in general, not specifically about Vicky. The MC has questioned the Club in the past, though he generally does so obliquely, even in his own mind. There are only a handful of times when he's expressed genuine doubt about whether he wants to keep working there, and most of those are framed as it not being a long-term career.

As we get closer to the end of the game, I feel like it's time for the MC to start contemplating his feelings on the Club a little more vigorously (assuming we encourage that angle, obviously). Instead, it felt to me like the MC toned down his oblique criticism instead, which was very frustrating to me. YMMV.

I like your thinking here. We're somewhere around the end of Act 2 in a standard 3-act story structure, and that means we're going to start seeing more movement and character growth from Edwin as we move towards the conclusion. (Okay, no, not necessarily, but I trust TD on this one). One of the big character moments I expect is an emotional resolution to Edwin's issues* and as part of that I think we're going to see less compartmentalizing and passivity. Edwin will start exhibiting agency instead of simply going with the flow. He'll have his anagnorises and do what needs to be done to extricate himself from his emotional labyrinth and keep his sanity. Or he won't; he'll give in to his darker urges and become just as corrupt and hedonistic as Chuck and Kathleen, and PC will end up a tragedy instead of a comedy (in the original Greek sense of those words). I would imagine that the choices we make as players over the course of the game will have quite a bit to do with the way that turns out.

Either way, I think we all need to buckle up because the roller coaster is just getting started.



*I don't mean necessarily that Edwin will emerge completely well-adjusted and over his baggage and live happily ever after; That would be silly. He's gonna need a great deal of therapy for that one. Nor do I necessarily think every single little story thread will be wrapped up neatly. The core of any story is the emotional journey, and that's the resolution I'm talking about here.

 

[Idontplay]

In this case, what some people are choosing to call cheating or "reverse NTR" or whatever, Hana and Edwin think of as "Edwin literally doing his job." Assuming, of course, that Edwin sticks to his promise of staying away from others outside the exhibitions.

Well, actually my post was intended like a joke about the people, who ask contiously if there are ntr contents in this game: you can say: «Yes! But Hana is the ntred.». Unfortunately I have adopted an extremely poor choice of words, so it seems more a serious statement, than a sarcastic joke.

 

[lustforsex]

I share the sentiments of those who would like to see Edwin finally take a more active role. Right now, it's fair to say he's more of a passive observer, just going with the flow. On the other hand, how can you not go with the flow when you realize the club is two sides of the same coin? Some people come there of their own free will, while others take advantage of it. Incidentally, this applies to Edwin as well. And Edwin himself doesn't have any powers and this isn't some kind of AVN about power fantasy, so don't expect a sharp plot twist like in many games. I think there will be one, but not as cliched as some players would like.

In this regard, Edwin needs some kind of push that's directly related to him, his future, or his position. Will it be related to Darius, or to Victoria and Chuck's past connection, or perhaps something else entirely? During the week leading up to the final, fourth exhibition, we'll finally learn the answers to these questions, and Edwin will be able to choose his path.

At the moment, Edwin's greatest advantage, as Van Doren mentioned, is that no one takes him seriously; he's "flying under the radar." As Ozymandias037 said, the comparison of the last week to a roller coaster is apt, and I think the last week will be precisely the steep descent that the past three weeks have been building toward.

 

[Ottoeight]

I share the sentiments of those who would like to see Edwin finally take a more active role. Right now, it's fair to say he's more of a passive observer, just going with the flow.

How can he possibly take a more active role, I wonder. Tell me.
His only option would be "I quit", but the story would end.

The story is: what happened in those fucking damn 4 exhibition weeks. Literally.

On the other hand, how can you not go with the flow when you realize the club is two sides of the same coin? Some people come there of their own free will, while others take advantage of it.

Well, that's bullshit. You know it, we know it, the story's characters know it.

Nothing excuses whatever the club is doing to anyone.

And we should always remember that prostitute yourself AND buying sex are crimes in USA except in Nevada and Maine, therefore all the club girls are crime offenders, therefore they're totally at the mercy of the club and of the club's patrons.

so don't expect a sharp plot twist like in many games. I think there will be one, but not as cliched as some players would like.

In this regard, Edwin needs some kind of push that's directly related to him, his future, or his position. Will it be related to Darius, or to Victoria and Chuck's past connection, or perhaps something else entirely? During the week leading up to the final, fourth exhibition, we'll finally learn the answers to these questions, and Edwin will be able to choose his path.

At the moment, Edwin's greatest advantage, as Van Doren mentioned, is that no one takes him seriously; he's "flying under the radar." As Ozymandias037 said, the comparison of the last week to a roller coaster is apt, and I think the last week will be precisely the steep descent that the past three weeks have been building toward.

I agree. I might add that no one takes Ian seriously as well.

 

[Idontplay]

I share the sentiments of those who would like to see Edwin finally take a more active role be killed by the mobsters who own the club.

Fixed.

VERY LATE EDIT: because this is what will happen, if Edwin will start to messing up with the club's owners.

 

[oceanbobo4]

The flow of the game and how things connect is one of my primary concerns. It's what I spend the greatest amount of time wrestling over, and while result isn't perfect, it's not arbitrary; it's a reflection of what I think a visual novel should try to be. I'm sorry you find the structure irritating, and thank you for the feed back, but it's not done capriciously like you're suggesting.

Frankly: the function of the scene was presenting Edwin an emotional outlet post-Vicky talk with the seeming "girlfriend" options of the game. If you're loaning Mina out to Veronica or spending time with another girl instead of Mina during the last update, the game sees that an implicit choice about where you want Mina's relationship to go.

As for the list: should Edwin run out and grab some dude off the street corner so they can Eiffel tower her? Should he break out the dog collar after spilling his guts? No, not the time. Mina uses the moment to be tender and make Edwin feel better. Deepening their romantic connection within the remaining week and some change is a more time sensitive matter than exploring her kinky side - of which we'll get to.

Here is what is probably happening.

Mina fans read on f95zone that she is in a lesbian scene, or they look at the in-game scenes for Mina and it shows a Mina scene that they haven't found yet.

So they think, "I want to see Mina, and since Mina says she wants to explore her kinky side, it shouldn't damage my girlfriend relationship with her if I encourage her to experiment."

So they "loan" her to Veronica. Not only to see the scene, but to advance Mina's list of things she wants to try.

They think, "if I'm a controlling boyfriend, I'll lose her, so I'll let her free and decide, and then come back and get her later." And this is a realistic thought that often works in real life with girls. Those who take all a girl's attention, sometimes lose the girl. She thinks him "clingy."

On the other hand, you are correct.

In other situations, and with different girls, you would want to stay with Mina the whole time.

The problem is . . . a game can't offer all the choices there would be in real life.

In real life, the guy who wants to be boyfriend has the option to circle back and show his interest in Mina again, after "loaning" her. And I was expecting something like this in the game . . . because why shouldn't I be able to see ALL the Mina scenes?

------------

The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.

The recent romance scene feels compatible with loaning her to a girl at the concert. After all, it was only a "loan," and Mina was curious about it, so how does this forbid a romance path with Mina?

On the other hand, it is the case that people change based on what they do and what happens to them. So, it is realistic to have Mina's personality develop in different ways through different paths.

But those who play multiple playthroughs to see all the Mina scenes get confused about who she is.

"Is Mina like this? Or is Mina like this?"

And then the choices feel arbitrary. Because they don't play your game with one playthrough, but keep replaying for all the scenes. And now they don't really know who Mina is because when you see all the scenes, she's quite inconsistent.

But isn't THAT how girls really are? Inconsistent?

So why not have all the scenes with Mina available for every playthrough? It would make the update feel longer, and it would solve the problem of too many paths.

 

[dolfe67]

by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

Would you be the same if you made a different choice in your life? That's an interesting philosophical question with no tangible answer.

 

[ffive]

The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.

That's the classic "nature vs nurture" and i'm firmly in the camp that nurture (or more broadly, what we experience) does play role in shaping the personality. (experiences and memories shape neural path, and those shape our decision-making) So yes, experiencing different things produces "different Minas". The alternative would be Mina's personality magically set in stone and not affected by anything she experiences.

That said, i quite disagree that "bisexual Mina" somehow doesn't care about romance much. That part of her doesn't go away; what changes is that seeing Edwin not act like he's much into her (by pushing her towards others and not showing jealousy etc she implicitly wants him to show) she recognizes it's best to write him off and turns to other potential candidates for said romance.

 

[Discrepancy]

The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.

The recent romance scene feels compatible with loaning her to a girl at the concert. After all, it was only a "loan," and Mina was curious about it, so how does this forbid a romance path with Mina?

I don't agree with this, there's only one Mina, with different facets sure but it's the same complex human, and for Mina this is really appropriate, IMO her character is very about that, being a sweet bubbly girl that is something like a face she puts on, but at the same time it's her. That sweet bubbly girl has a bucket list of sexual deviancies she wants to explore and you can help her, this is all Mina. A girl that's trying to discover herself "Sometimes I feel I'm not even human".
I Love her and would love to see all her scenes, the same with Hana, but I love that TD make us have choices and then consequences, it's one of the things that makes this game so good.

 

[UmbralKnight]

The one thing I'll push back on here is that as a person with ADHD (I don't know that Edwin has it, necessarily, but I do) I can absolutely 100000% confirm that I will start doomscrolling or replying to Discord messages or launch a stupid phone game even while part of my brain is actively screaming THIS IS STUPID DON'T DO IT YOU HAVE SHIT TO DO and the rest of my dopamine-starved neurospicy brain replies "yeah whatever I'll do my shit later."

So, yeah. That bit didn't stand out to me as weird, especially.

Doesn't even have to be anything ADHD related. Procrastination and burying yourself in some most vapid, pointless shit just so you can avoid tackling head-on something you (sub)consciously dread is a common enough defense mechanism.

fair enough

Here is what is probably happening.

Mina fans read on f95zone that she is in a lesbian scene, or they look at the in-game scenes for Mina and it shows a Mina scene that they haven't found yet.

So they think, "I want to see Mina, and since Mina says she wants to explore her kinky side, it shouldn't damage my girlfriend relationship with her if I encourage her to experiment."

So they "loan" her to Veronica. Not only to see the scene, but to advance Mina's list of things she wants to try.

They think, "if I'm a controlling boyfriend, I'll lose her, so I'll let her free and decide, and then come back and get her later." And this is a realistic thought that often works in real life with girls. Those who take all a girl's attention, sometimes lose the girl. She thinks him "clingy."

On the other hand, you are correct.

In other situations, and with different girls, you would want to stay with Mina the whole time.

The problem is . . . a game can't offer all the choices there would be in real life.

In real life, the guy who wants to be boyfriend has the option to circle back and show his interest in Mina again, after "loaning" her. And I was expecting something like this in the game . . . because why shouldn't I be able to see ALL the Mina scenes?

------------

The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.

The recent romance scene feels compatible with loaning her to a girl at the concert. After all, it was only a "loan," and Mina was curious about it, so how does this forbid a romance path with Mina?

On the other hand, it is the case that people change based on what they do and what happens to them. So, it is realistic to have Mina's personality develop in different ways through different paths.

But those who play multiple playthroughs to see all the Mina scenes get confused about who she is.

"Is Mina like this? Or is Mina like this?"

And then the choices feel arbitrary. Because they don't play your game with one playthrough, but keep replaying for all the scenes. And now they don't really know who Mina is because when you see all the scenes, she's quite inconsistent.

But isn't THAT how girls really are? Inconsistent?

So why not have all the scenes with Mina available for every playthrough? It would make the update feel longer, and it would solve the problem of too many paths.

The "Problem" you're describing is something RPG fans especially CRPG fans have been discussing,debating and ruminating for decades now

in RPG circles it's called "player-sexual" paradox
it's more common in newer and mainstream games than older, classic RPGs


In older RPGs romances were specifically "locked" behind certain race/gender/alignment and sometimes even class

but newer RPGs let's you romance characters regardless of gender/race etc etc

so most of the romances end up feeling the same with very little variation
but it does allow game developers to "simplify" the different choices and outcomes and streamline it into a yes/no choices
whether the player is romancing the LI by the end of the game or not

so now instead of worrying about tons of different possible combinations by the end of the game in these newer games made it very streamlined and very accessible to the playerbase all of whom can enjoy a simple and easy to acquire romantic ending without worrying about failstates

for example in a modern game like BG3 every companion is "player sexual" by default so it doesn't matter what gender/race or class you're playing as if you pick the "right" options they would always be romantically available

but if you go back a bit further back even mainstream games like mass effect weren't completely plagued by player sexuality sure some character's like liara could be romanced by anyone but everyone had their own "core" personality and identity so that meant some characters were always going to be straight others bi and some gay and their different story lines and choices often matched their sexuality

but if you go way back say all the way to BG 2
romance options was very few and they were all almost exclusively centred around the core personality of the ROs

first the ROs interest in the player character were divided by gender then race then your alignment
so "romancing" someone in these old RPGs might be sometimes very frustrating since you could easily pick one "wrong" option and ruin it

but it also made it feel very special in a way since each possible path was very unique

for example a good guy MC romancing aerie is drastically different from a bad guy MC romancing Viconia

but let's come back to your questions

Most of the LIs in this game have a very strong central "core" personality or identity so I don't think they are ALL going to be end up the same or without a "default path" of their own because of the various possible choices and its effects

Veronica will always be Veronica
no matter which path you're on or which choices you make she is always going to have a "core", "central" or "default" personality that isn't going to change

it might be slightly different depending on your choices but it will always be there

let me give you an example

Kathleen is always going to be an evil hag who takes sick pleasure in tormenting the carnations
that is her "core" identity
sure she might warm up to player depending on your choices but even then she is still evil and she is still going to torment all the girls

but let's move on to a character that i like

Like i said Veronica is always going to be Veronica
she is very strong willed and determined but not the most brightest or cunning amongst the carnations

no matter what kind of choices you pick or the decisions you make her personality isn't going to change drastically from the established "core"
she isn't suddenly going to become a big brained genius who suddenly figures out a financial loophole to get rid of the debt she owes nor is she going to suddenly become a cunning fox who weaponises her sexuality to manipulate the game in her favour by sleeping with let's say Kathleen

that simply isn't her

but there are exceptions to this of course

for instance Veronica finds the MC not only sexually attractive but there is a genuine emotional connection too
but that doesn't mean
Veronica is going to suddenly fall for Ian just because she as a "bi sexual" woman falls for the MC in one of the many possible choices and outcomes
she is not going to find to fall for Ian even though she calls him "pretty boy" by default

these are expectional cases which is a result of player choices

speaking of ian
characters like ian have their own paragon/renegade type dichotomy as part of their core identity

Ian is either your bro or he isn't
there isn't any other choice
similarly the choices with regards to vickys storyline are also an either or scenario

so far there isn't much scope for these characters to end up as inconsistent even in different playthroughs with different choices

however there is some validity in your argument with say a character like mina or even hana

they're too entangled with so many of the characters that even if you DON'T pick a choice that doesn't affect them directly
there has to be too many variants to account for all possible outcomes of different choices when they are interacting with other characters

for example
during the last update mina reacts differently depending on whether if she has previously interacted other characters like Veronica

so far she her story is very consistent across different play throughs because her character isn't yet affected by feature creep or cluster of domino effects

maybe in a few years when things get too nebulous some of her paths might get entangled in contradictory choices and effects maybe then some of her paths might seem inconsistent to her baseline core personality/identity

for example

ian always cheats on mina and they both always break up so in some of the possible future playthroughs mina might get back at ian by sleeping with the MC and different "ians" could feel completely different about this
a reformed introspective "bro" ian might feel completely disgusted that MC slept with Mina when he is still in love with her
meanwhile unreformed fuckboy ian probably doesn't even care
maybe different ians react differently to mina sleeping with women

this nebulae of possible alternative choices are only going to get bigger and bigger as the game progresses further along and some of these choices are going to be definitely "better" than the other

no two choices are going to be the "same" but then again such is the nature of choice based games

i am more worried about the endings
somehow to tie in all these possible threads into a unified cohesive endstate with years worth of content will be a massive undertaking on just a technical side


but that's years away from now and no use speculating now

to answer your question
so yes i think in end some of the mina play throughs will be VERY different and Vastly superior to some of the other possible choices and combinations

like I said no 2 choices are the same/equal and so it's natural that some of them are definitely going to be better than the rest

as long as the overall narrative remains consistent it doesn't matter if there are minute different and smaller differences across the various possible outcomes

 

[lustforsex]

How can he possibly take a more active role, I wonder. Tell me.
His only option would be "I quit", but the story would end.

The story is: what happened in those fucking damn 4 exhibition weeks. Literally.

I mean, it's unlikely the players will be interested if Edwin spends the fourth week just like the previous three, only as a lackey and empathetic sponge. Something has to happen, right? That's why I mentioned a push in the last message. And I have serious doubts that Edwin can just up and leave when the summer exhibition is not over yet. That would be as stupid as Veronica's threats to stop performing.

Well, that's bullshit. You know it, we know it, the story's characters know it.

Nothing excuses whatever the club is doing to anyone.

And we should always remember that prostitute yourself AND buying sex are crimes in USA except in Nevada and Maine, therefore all the club girls are crime offenders, therefore they're totally at the mercy of the club and of the club's patrons.

This isn't an attempt to justify what the club does, but rather that I don't see the club employees or the carnations as pure victims of circumstance. They may be victims of causes unrelated to the club, but they themselves chose this place to solve their problems (there are exceptions, like Nicolette). Players probably have different views on this, but this is my take.