VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Laxus007]

How tall is Veronica? I think she is around 190cm

 

[BOZZU]

Hey, buddy, Pale Carnations has been updated to Ch4Up6 Public. You can update the Android version now. I'm really looking forward to the Android version—please do it! Thank you so much!!! (My English isn't great, so please forgive any unclear expressions.)

Android port for Ch.4 Up.6 EA is available here.

 

[Ummmh]

There's a bit of a dichotomy that isn't quite shown but a huge issue with this that doesn't change anything about what you said and makes it deeper: Old money vs new money.

If you're OLD money, you have entrenched views on society which can then turn you into a major, extreme, self righteous prick that makes you insufferable as a noble in said society. That's Kathleen. Judge for a husband, always been higher class, etc.

For Elias, he's NEW money. Inheritance is a part of it. He's running a studio business, so at the very least, he's needing to see how someone lives. New money is Silicon Valley, Hollywood (though that's old now), and game businesses just as an example. You aren't railroad, oil, or insurance. You're the newest industry going which has millionaires and billionaires pop up outside the system. That's why Elias can be very unique because his background links up in certain ways to a lower class. And of course, remember Felicia's background. She started from the bottom.

Now she's here.

Apologies for late response.

New money is actually often more vicious SPECIFICALLY because it is new: it is the original greedy fk who wanted more money than God, and was willing to do any evil deed to get it.

Inheritors are not innately so greedy, tho they will carry some of the stamp. This is, I suspect, part of Elias's personality.

Properly old money (more than just 2 or 3 generations, so has an experiential insulator built in) does often have an entrenched class divide built in, but can also bring a sense of "noblesse oblige" with it. It was exactly this which had FDR (a 5th gen) so socially focused, he was accused by his detractors of being communist, despite his actually saving capitalism from overthrow with his efforts, and being the guy who broke up the Bonus Army protest camp with tanks.

You really think she would snub a guy with "just" couple millions when the alternative is literal decades of getting exploited and fucked at a brothel with nothing to show for it? *

NGL, it feels like a pretty wild take. "If i can't dine at 5-star restaurant i'd rather eat shit from dog bowl than have regular, 4-star meals".

*) not like this is actually a serious alternative in the first place. Unlike other Carnations, Felicia didn't join the contest because she was in dire straits financially. Similarly, if she doesn't win it's not like she owes the club anything or needs their assistance. She can go and do anything else with her life, whether this is looking for a millionaire to charm or a basic job and taking up painting in her spare time.

Again, apologies for late response.

Yes, it is wild, but so is Fel. She is a VERY irrational individual prone to highly emotional decisions, despite her pragmatism.

Consider: she knew enough abt the club and competition (despite full disclosure apparently not really being given) to realize she would be humiliated in front of, and probably fucked by, the very misogynist social clique she intended to join as an equal. Does that make ANY kind of sense to you? She made a MONUMENTALLY unwise decision in signing up with that specific goal in mind.

Fel is a little girl permanently FRANTICALLY and OBSESSIVELY running FROM HERSELF, to become a glowing golden image of always-increasing wealth, status, and general success: an image ultimately measured by her being able to live the highest of the high life, but with the built-in caveat that "enough" is still never enough to feel safe from the memory of her past endlessly haunting just a step behind her, so with a neurotic kneejerk response to anything that could drag her backwards on her fearful flight from her impoverished childhood. Even her massive infatuation w/the MC (if he's been doing her right) isn't enough to derail that monomaniac train; tho she clearly recognizes him as a possible future of bliss for her, she still can't bring herself to jump the tracks.

If she fails, and loses it ALL, she won't just be facing a reduction in wealth (in fact, she will certainly still have more than most folks; almost guaranteed she will still be a low-lvl millionaire, despite pre-nups and Elias likely having much better lawyers) but she will be seeing herself as an abject failure for having wasted a decade or more of degredation, humiliation, and repression of her own person, just to end up back where she was from likely even earlier than when she met Elias, as her social circle will get reduced once he starts distancing himself from her.

Again, she makes EMOTIONAL decisions based on her neurosis. She may well decide she deserves whatever is coming/cumming for her, should she fail, as she may then see herself as being a loser who never really escaped being that poor little girl she so hates herself for having been. If she loses, and is back at near square one (more like square 3 or 4, but she might not see it that way), it will be a fight between her pragmatism, and her self-hatred telling herself she was always just lying to herself, and that she deserves whatever she gets. Do NOT expect 100% rational decisions from our girl, if that happens.

Add to this, the specter of ending up as house girls is seemingly dangled for all girls in game, so never count that fate out.

 

[pinuz1]

TD and GIL have done a great job over the past three game weeks of getting players to empathize with the Carnations, and now they can take full advantage of the emotions of those players who like them all or any of them.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

This is one of my favorite aspects of this game, Edwin is like a key component for the exhibition, he has to get close to the Carnations and manage all 3, and at this point I love them all, but at the same time it's not like he's important enough to stop anything from happening, you help the girls be part a of this game that hurts them in many ways, while also not having much power to stop it from happening. It's cruel but also brilliant.

The dichotomy of the MC, and the players, the ones who want to embrace the club and the others who want to burn it down, is kinda hard to manage. Good luck to the devs.

Not just that but players like me I just want to see a happy ending for all 3 Carnations, but I don't necessarily want to burn down the club, then there's psychos out there who want all 3 to end up as whores and suffer, I really wonder how much variety there will be when it comes to the endings.

 

[Discrepancy]

Not just that but players like me I just want to see a happy ending for all 3 Carnations, but I don't necessarily want to burn down the club, then there's psychos out there who want all 3 to end up as whores and suffer, I really wonder how much variety there will be when it comes to the endings.

I really doubt a truly happy ending is in the cards for any of them, gladly to be proven wrong in the future by TD though
I'm hoping for a bittersweet ending for all the characters, having their problems solved but still being affected by all that went through in the club.
I don't want the club to end, but hoping for Hana and her dad to make it a bit less exploitative for all the people involved. Like more willing participants like Felicia and less like Rose and Veronica (still I think those last two are starting to enjoy parts of the debauchery there )

 

[Darreau91]

How tall is Veronica? I think she is around 190cm

I think she is rather short, 5 ft 6 ,since she is about the same height as Warren the king of hobbits. Shorter people can bulk up easier while being natty since the fandom is leaning towards non roid usage.

Another reason would be large peoples wouldn’t be getting a contact high from perfume with a couple of whiffs. They have more mass to absorb larger amount of chemicals and would need to bask in the Sophia stench to get messed up.

So, yeah, I’m theorizing PC is a kinky fanfiction about Hobbits in a modern world with shaving cream .

 

[lustforsex]

Not just that but players like me I just want to see a happy ending for all 3 Carnations, but I don't necessarily want to burn down the club, then there's psychos out there who want all 3 to end up as whores and suffer, I really wonder how much variety there will be when it comes to the endings.

I really doubt a truly happy ending is in the cards for any of them, gladly to be proven wrong in the future by TD though
I'm hoping for a bittersweet ending for all the characters, having their problems solved but still being affect by all that went through in the club.
I don't want the club to end, but hoping for Hana and her dad to make it a bit less exploitative for all the people involved. Like more willing participants like Felicia and less like Rose and Veronica (still I think those last two are starting to enjoy parts of the debauchery there )

I also doubt it's possible for everyone to get a happy ending, and frankly, as much as I'd like one, it's unlikely to be in the style of PC. We're not in a typical incest harem game, after all

Wait, you're telling me there won't be incest with my favorite LI, Victoria, in this game? Devs, I'm so, so disappointed in you... Can't we at least make Mina a house girl? Please, please

I think movies, games, stories, and so on are more memorable when things don't end as well as hoped. In principle, it would be possible to have an ending where, say, Edwin "saved" everyone, but he couldn't pull through.

That's just me thinking out loud, but we mustn't forget that there's still a whole game week ahead, plus an epilogue. We still have to live to see that, and I think the wait will be worth it

 

[Ungawa]

Apologies for late response.

New money is actually often more vicious SPECIFICALLY because it is new: it is the original greedy fk who wanted more money than God, and was willing to do any evil deed to get it.

Inheritors are not innately so greedy, tho they will carry some of the stamp. This is, I suspect, part of Elias's personality.

Properly old money (more than just 2 or 3 generations, so has an experiential insulator built in) does often have an entrenched class divide built in, but can also bring a sense of "noblesse oblige" with it. It was exactly this which had FDR (a 5th gen) so socially focused, he was accused by his detractors of being communist, despite his actually saving capitalism from overthrow with his efforts, and being the guy who broke up the Bonus Army protest camp with tanks.

Yes, there can be a sense of the noblesse oblige in old money, no question. BUT. Kathleen is right there and her good side (being her sister) died off, showing that money can give into the vices of those it pulls in.

Even then, remember that Chuck made his money through government wetwork. Technically, he's new money

With the game being about opposites, Elias is based on the opposite of Chuck in a few capacities and they're direct mirrors. Chuck cares about those around him, Elias is aloof. Chuck is vicious to his enemies, with Elias being at least cordial.

With both, we see the two sides of the coin the game is built on. No easy answers at all. Just more complexity as the game moves forward.

 

[ruby_rubicon]

I think movies, games, stories, and so on are more memorable when things don't end as well as hoped. In principle, it would be possible to have an ending where, say, Edwin "saved" everyone, but he couldn't pull through.

"... 10 years later, after the last carnation stopped answering Edwin's messages, one could still find him drinking alone in the bar, never wanting to talk about the past, but always playing this song in the jukebox."

"All we ever wanted was everything" by Bauhaus starts playing. Credits - and tears- roll.

Or just simply rename it to Pale Carnations - It did end in tears.

 

[Turret]

I really doubt a truly happy ending is in the cards for any of them, gladly to be proven wrong in the future by TD though
I'm hoping for a bittersweet ending for all the characters, having their problems solved but still being affected by all that went through in the club.
I don't want the club to end, but hoping for Hana and her dad to make it a bit less exploitative for all the people involved. Like more willing participants like Felicia and less like Rose and Veronica (still I think those last two are starting to enjoy parts of the debauchery there )

I also doubt it's possible for everyone to get a happy ending, and frankly, as much as I'd like one, it's unlikely to be in the style of PC. We're not in a typical incest harem game, after all

Wait, you're telling me there won't be incest with my favorite LI, Victoria, in this game? Devs, I'm so, so disappointed in you... Can't we at least make Mina a house girl? Please, please

I think movies, games, stories, and so on are more memorable when things don't end as well as hoped. In principle, it would be possible to have an ending where, say, Edwin "saved" everyone, but he couldn't pull through.

That's just me thinking out loud, but we mustn't forget that there's still a whole game week ahead, plus an epilogue. We still have to live to see that, and I think the wait will be worth it

I estimate that the we will see some bad endings for paths where we fucked up along the way, one or two epilogues which are "neutral", with good and bad things having happened in near equal amounts and a couple HEA endings, but with an "extra", representing the marks left by the events surrounding the club. They´ll be happy, but the experience of the club will have changed them.

For example, let us take Feli. She might be with the MC, free or maybe with Elias, upheavals like this can make or break a relationship, they might find out they fit better than they both believed, but the psychological trauma from the events at PC will be massive and will take time to heal.

Or Ian. He might turn his life onto a good way, becoming a history teacher/prof., being with Mina again, Victoria or someone surprising, but do you believe that his relations with his family will ever recover? I cannot see it currently. Bsides taking down Chuck, who mentored him for years, will also leave marks.

 

[Ozymandias037]

This forum is full of games where some 20 something dudes sexually harass their moms/sisters while they sleep. And they never wake up!

Sister Sleep Sex Simulator 4 is still my favorite!

Do you understand that his presence in the club is the reason for the existence of this game and that there isn't any life for the character, after the game's end?

Of course he has a life after the game ends. They all do. We just probably won't get to see much (or perhaps any) of it.

 

[ename144]

I also doubt it's possible for everyone to get a happy ending, and frankly, as much as I'd like one, it's unlikely to be in the style of PC. We're not in a typical incest harem game, after all

Wait, you're telling me there won't be incest with my favorite LI, Victoria, in this game? Devs, I'm so, so disappointed in you... Can't we at least make Mina a house girl? Please, please

I think movies, games, stories, and so on are more memorable when things don't end as well as hoped. In principle, it would be possible to have an ending where, say, Edwin "saved" everyone, but he couldn't pull through.

That's just me thinking out loud, but we mustn't forget that there's still a whole game week ahead, plus an epilogue. We still have to live to see that, and I think the wait will be worth it

Maybe, but I find those sort of semi-tragic endings tend to be less enjoyable in practice than they appear to be on paper. Then again, I'm a big softy so I suspect I'll be rather sad if there's no way to get a happy ending for everyone (Kathleen and some of the other Club characters not included, if we want to get technical).

Of course, it may depend on what we mean by happy. My threshold is simply that the characters would be in a position to move forward to better things. That may be tricky to adjudicate, though. Consider, for example, an ending where Felicia abandons her dreams of being a wealthy socialite (be it as a wife or as an information broker) but instead puts her other talents to use in more direct ways (as an artist, manager or something similar). I'd consider that a plausible happy ending, but I'm not sure Felicia herself would agree with my take - and depending on how it was presented, either of us could be right.

Basically, I want an ending where, assuming we make the right choices, the events of the game can be counted as a net plus for all the main girls (again, excluding Kathleen but let's include Ian for good measure). But that's always going to depend on how you tally up the pluses and minuses of the experience. For now, I'll just keep waiting with my fingers crossed.

 

[ffive]

Yes, it is wild, but so is Fel. She is a VERY irrational individual prone to highly emotional decisions, despite her pragmatism.

Consider: she knew enough abt the club and competition (despite full disclosure apparently not really being given) to realize she would be humiliated in front of, and probably fucked by, the very misogynist social clique she intended to join as an equal. Does that make ANY kind of sense to you? She made a MONUMENTALLY unwise decision in signing up with that specific goal in mind.

There have been pages and pages in this very thread of posts debating this very subject so forgive me if i'm not too keen for a rehash, but the tl;dr of it is that yes, some of the posters consider there is some rationality in Felicia's decision. It's a long shot and she knows it but going with it doesn't mean she is some sort of purely emotional creature who is bound to make the most self-damaging decisions one after another. IMO if that's your reading of her, you're far off. Consequently, your little scenario reads to me like fanfiction about some character who is not Felicia as she appears in the game. So it's probably best if we just choose to agree to disagree.

 

[pinuz1]

Maybe, but I find those sort of semi-tragic endings tend to be less enjoyable in practice than they appear to be on paper. Then again, I'm a big softy so I suspect I'll be rather sad if there's no way to get a happy ending for everyone (Kathleen and some of the other Club characters not included, if we want to get technical).

Of course, it may depend on what we mean by happy. My threshold is simply that the characters would be in a position to move forward to better things. That may be tricky to adjudicate, though. Consider, for example, an ending where Felicia abandons her dreams of being a wealthy socialite (be it as a wife or as an information broker) but instead puts her other talents to use in more direct ways (as an artist, manager or something similar). I'd consider that a plausible happy ending, but I'm not sure Felicia herself would agree with my take - and depending on how it was presented, either of us could be right.

Basically, I want an ending where, assuming we make the right choices, the events of the game can be counted as a net plus for all the main girls (again, excluding Kathleen but let's include Ian for good measure). But that's always going to depend on how you tally up the pluses and minuses of the experience. For now, I'll just keep waiting with my fingers crossed.

Yea I agree, I'm not naive enough to believe we'll get an ending where everyone fully wins (Veronica makes her gym stay afloat, Rose deals with her debts, and Felicia climbs the social ladder) but at least an ending where all 3 of the girls are moving forward and not stuck as whore would make me more than happy. Of course whatever Carnation ends up winning will get their wish granted, tho at this point I'm not even sure if Felicia winning would be as beneficial for her now that Elias is part of the club, maybe she'll ask for a change on her prize if she wins? An ending where the 2 carnations that don't end up winning still manage to move on with their lives, or get helped by Edwin somehow would be my ideal situation.

Mina and Hana are mostly safe when it comes to a happy ending, Mina could very well never appear again in the story and even if she'd get a bit sad if Edwin ghosted her, she'll move on with her life as a model and be happy. Hana on the other hand will not take Edwin cheating on her lightly but she can always sell her part of the club to Kath and move on with her life with a shitload of money, not like I can't imagine bad endings for both of them but the Carnations are the ones that are in actual danger of ending up on really shitty situations.

 

[lustforsex]

Maybe, but I find those sort of semi-tragic endings tend to be less enjoyable in practice than they appear to be on paper. Then again, I'm a big softy so I suspect I'll be rather sad if there's no way to get a happy ending for everyone (Kathleen and some of the other Club characters not included, if we want to get technical).

Of course, it may depend on what we mean by happy. My threshold is simply that the characters would be in a position to move forward to better things. That may be tricky to adjudicate, though. Consider, for example, an ending where Felicia abandons her dreams of being a wealthy socialite (be it as a wife or as an information broker) but instead puts her other talents to use in more direct ways (as an artist, manager or something similar). I'd consider that a plausible happy ending, but I'm not sure Felicia herself would agree with my take - and depending on how it was presented, either of us could be right.

Basically, I want an ending where, assuming we make the right choices, the events of the game can be counted as a net plus for all the main girls (again, excluding Kathleen but let's include Ian for good measure). But that's always going to depend on how you tally up the pluses and minuses of the experience. For now, I'll just keep waiting with my fingers crossed.

I agree that the concept of a "happy ending" is very vague in a game like this. I guess I'm more referring to the idea that, for example, the carnations won't fall to the bottom. And I think a "happy ending" for everyone should have a price. So you might ask, how can it be a "happy ending" if you have to pay for it? Now that's a good question... That's probably why I like this game, because it doesn't divide everything into black and white

 

[4-kun]

I agree that the concept of a "happy ending" is very vague in a game like this. I guess I'm more referring to the idea that, for example, the carnations won't fall to the bottom. And I think a "happy ending" for everyone should have a price. So you might ask, how can it be a "happy ending" if you have to pay for it? Now that's a good question... That's probably why I like this game, because it doesn't divide everything into black and white

I agree. Given how things are going, it just doesn’t seem like the kind of story where everyone can get a happy ending.

Well, unless you’re playing the total sadist route (which is totally fine in its own right, btw), I just can’t imagine you’ll be able to save everyone — it’s just not that type of game. On the other hand, there’s nothing wrong with trying and seeing how it all plays out in the end.

For me, it made sense to define a goal early on — decide which characters I care about the most, play smart, and, if necessary, play a little dirty to protect them. I still try to do some good where I can, as long as it doesn’t interfere with my main objective.

That way, I can at least secure the best possible outcome in the scenario I’ve chosen… hopefully

 

[penzor]

i just want to impregnate my goth lolita gf hana and have a wholesome family

 

[hitman2511]

i just want to impregnate my goth lolita gf hana and have a wholesome family

And I want to impregnate both Hana and Mina.

 

[ename144]

I agree that the concept of a "happy ending" is very vague in a game like this. I guess I'm more referring to the idea that, for example, the carnations won't fall to the bottom. And I think a "happy ending" for everyone should have a price. So you might ask, how can it be a "happy ending" if you have to pay for it? Now that's a good question... That's probably why I like this game, because it doesn't divide everything into black and white

Again, it's really in the eye of the beholder. From my point of view the "price" would paid by enduring Kathleen's bullshit for four weeks: the MC may get a thrill out of her sadism, but I do not. I'm doing all this to try to salvage something worthwhile from the MC's Faustian bargain. Getting to the end only to discover that the losers of the contest are permanent wrecks would be a real shaggy dog story.

That's just me, however, and determining what constitutes "something worthwhile" is quite tricky. There's a lot of room for nuance here - but that's likely part of why I get so jumpy when the MC seems to blandly accept everything going on in the Club this time around. Anyway, fingers still crossed!

 

[Turret]

Yea I agree, I'm not naive enough to believe we'll get an ending where everyone fully wins (Veronica makes her gym stay afloat, Rose deals with her debts, and Felicia climbs the social ladder) but at least an ending where all 3 of the girls are moving forward and not stuck as whore would make me more than happy.

I agree that the concept of a "happy ending" is very vague in a game like this. I guess I'm more referring to the idea that, for example, the carnations won't fall to the bottom. And I think a "happy ending" for everyone should have a price. So you might ask, how can it be a "happy ending" if you have to pay for it? Now that's a good question... That's probably why I like this game, because it doesn't divide everything into black and white

I agree. Given how things are going, it just doesn’t seem like the kind of story where everyone can get a happy ending.

Well, unless you’re playing the total sadist route (which is totally fine in its own right, btw), I just can’t imagine you’ll be able to save everyone — it’s just not that type of game. On the other hand, there’s nothing wrong with trying and seeing how it all plays out in the end.

For me, it made sense to define a goal early on — decide which characters I care about the most, play smart, and, if necessary, play a little dirty to protect them. I still try to do some good where I can, as long as it doesn’t interfere with my main objective.

That way, I can at least secure the best possible outcome in the scenario I’ve chosen… hopefully

i just want to impregnate my goth lolita gf hana and have a wholesome family

Hi!
I think we all agree that a 100% happy end path is very unlikely to exist in PC. And I theorise that such a path would be very convoluted to walk without a walkthrough, hitting it blind with your choices.
Like you and as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the various happy end paths will either have a bittersweet "extra" or be of the two third or three quarters good, rest bad (there is always a price to be paid) type of ending.

I see the strategy to follow through the game similar to 4-kun : Set your main goals early (e.g. it is very clear that unless you play as..., sadist Edwin, the Club needs severe changes if we want to keep it existing), look who you like best and try to get them through. I also try to do as much good as I can, as long as it does not negatively impact my main directives.
As an example, in my 3 "head canon" playthroughs our hero sometimes chooses the hard options despite not wanting to, but knowing he cannot e.g. have too low trust from the PC leadership.

As for penzor s ending wish, I would add that I would like to impregnate Hana, Felicia and Sophia and have wholesome families with them in their respective playthroughs.