VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Discrepancy]

In the end I was able to play this update. It was pretty short, but very significative due to the consequences of what happened. But the future of the relationship between Ian and his mother (but also with Edwin and Victoria) is like a nuclear bomb which must still detonate and the Helias' admission in the club is just detonated (we have just to await for the fallout on Felicia's head), there is a third Enola Gay in flight: Katheleen has just started to corrupt Hana.
Guys, take a large supply of popcorn and Coca-cola, because the future updates will be interesting!

Having said that, I must tell the only disappointment I had from this update: the sex battle between Harper and the starlette; I don't remember her name. The battle was too one sided, with Harper who at first totally underestimated the starlette and then was utterly defeated. This wouldn't be an issue, if Harper wasn't a club's veteran, who should have seen how much the starlette is determined to win in the previous year exhibition. Instead not only Harper lost the battle like a newbie, but during the battle se can see Sophia explains how much the starlette is determined to win, making the Harper's attitude even more dumb.
Let's be clear, I'm totally fine with the Harper's defeat, but this was too silly to be gratifying; I would have appreciated a little more hard-fought battle.

I saw that "battle" more like a wrestling match 100% performance, 0% real competition, might be wrong though.

 

[Discrepancy]

Hi!Unless there has been a change not mentioned, a throuple ending I only see on a bad end, where you fully embrace the corruption of the club. For a nice or neutral Edwin, IMHO neither the threesome with Feli/Mina nor the beginning Hana/Mina felt "right". Yes, the first was fun time in bed, but it had "Fuckboy" written all over it and the latter has desperation from Mina thickly on it.

I agree that a throuple ending is pretty doubtful, especially because the game tell us Edwin had one throuple relation before and it went badly.
I disagree with the threesome with Felish/Mina not feeling right, it felt pretty Damn right to me

 

[dolfe67]

I agree that a throuple ending is pretty doubtful, especially because the game tell us Edwin had one throuple relation before and it went badly.

But a MFM throuple is not the same as a FMF, so it could work better. At least try it!

I disagree with the threesome with Felish/Mina not feeling right, it felt pretty Damn right to me

Yeah that's total nonsense that that would be an "asshole" Edwin thingy...

 

[Idontplay]

I agree that a throuple ending is pretty doubtful, especially because the game tell us Edwin had one throuple relation before and it went badly.
I disagree with the threesome with Felish/Mina not feeling right, it felt pretty Damn right to me

Trouple? Why just a trouple, when you can be Felicia's sugarboy, Mina's lover and Hana's boyfriend?
Obviously just because I have made some mistakes with Rosalynd and Lucy; otherwise…
In conclusion Ian is the most faithful guy, in comparison with my Edwin.

 

[belyal]

Am I the only one who thought this was the shortest update ever that seemed to take forever to come out?

 

[PervyParadox]

Hi!Unless there has been a change not mentioned, a throuple ending I only see on a bad end, where you fully embrace the corruption of the club. For a nice or neutral Edwin, IMHO neither the threesome with Feli/Mina nor the beginning Hana/Mina felt "right". Yes, the first was fun time in bed, but it had "Fuckboy" written all over it and the latter has desperation from Mina thickly on it.

Sorry, but your logic doesn't make much sense. A throuple with Mina and Hana would most likely depend more on choices regarding Mina and Hana, than the club itself. And even if it was linked, it would most likely be the opposite of what you're saying, like we'd have more chance of getting the throuple if we don't fully embrace the corruption of the club.

Also the beginning of Hana/Mina felt very right to me, and even if Mina seemed sort of desperate, I think the very fact that the kiss scene even exists, and that 1. Mina admitted to be attracted to both and 2. Hana isn't completely against it either, makes me think that there is a possibility, and this possibility isn't small. I mean, why else would this scene even exist ? If it leads to having to choose only one of them no matter what, then it would be kind of bad writing in my opinion (even acknowledging my biase, the very existence of this scene without any possible payoff would objectively mean bad writing). Or it's just to torture people living on hopium like me, but then... what the fuck guys ? Didn't we suffer enough, geez.

As for the Feli/Mina threesome, that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm pretty sure a Feli/Mina throuple is totally off the table. The Mina/Hana one will most likely be the only one possible.

I agree that a throuple ending is pretty doubtful, especially because the game tell us Edwin had one throuple relation before and it went badly.

The circumstances are different. Like dolfe said it would be FMF rather than MFM. Plus they're not the same characters, and in this case Mina and Hana are both attracted to each other as well. Edwin and Ian weren't fucking, that was the issue. Also Ian sucks at relationships. A throuple involving 3 people who are all attracted to each other, both sexually and romantically, is more likely to function.

Ah, I shouldn't have written anything. Now I'll have to resist the need to defend my Mina/Hana throuple fantasy against everyone who don't believe in it

 

[Discrepancy]

Sorry, but your logic doesn't make much sense. A throuple with Mina and Hana would most likely depend more on choices regarding Mina and Hana, than the club itself. And even if it was linked, it would most likely be the opposite of what you're saying, like we'd have more chance of getting the throuple if we don't fully embrace the corruption of the club.

Also the beginning of Hana/Mina felt very right to me, and even if Mina seemed sort of desperate, I think the very fact that the kiss scene even exists, and that 1. Mina admitted to be attracted to both and 2. Hana isn't completely against it either, makes me think that there is a possibility, and this possibility isn't small. I mean, why else would this scene even exist ? If it leads to having to choose only one of them no matter what, then it would be kind of bad writing in my opinion (even acknowledging my biase, the very existence of this scene without any possible payoff would objectively mean bad writing). Or it's just to torture people living on hopium like me, but then... what the fuck guys ? Didn't we suffer enough, geez.

As for the Feli/Mina threesome, that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm pretty sure a Feli/Mina throuple is totally off the table. The Mina/Hana one will most likely be the only one possible.

The circumstances are different. Like dolfe said it would be FMF rather than MFM. Plus they're not the same characters, and in this case Mina and Hana are both attracted to each other as well. Edwin and Ian weren't fucking, that was the issue. Also Ian sucks at relationships. A throuple involving 3 people who are all attracted to each other, both sexually and romantically, is more likely to function.

Ah, I shouldn't have written anything. Now I'll have to resist the need to defend my Mina/Hana throuple fantasy against everyone who don't believe in it

Sure, I think it's possible, I just think it's unlikely, yeah past experience for Edwin like I said before, and yes Dolfe point and yours are true that MMF is different to MFF, but it's still relevant, a throuple relationship is complicated and both Mina and Hana (especially Mina during the concert) showed signs of jealousy before, so realistically even if it happens in game I doubt a Edwin, Hana and Mina serious throuple relationship would last (sorry don't want to rain on your parade, but that's my opinion).
Edit for correction: For a threesome with Edwin, Mina and Hana I'm sure it will happen, more than once even and I can't wait
Mina is also interested on a MMF threesome and I'm here for it, hope it's with Jacob

 

[HeyZen_]

Sure, I think it's possible, I just think it's unlikely, yeah past experience for Edwin like I said before, and yes Dolfe point and yours are true that MMF is different to MFF, but it's still relevant, a throuple relationship is complicated and both Mina and Hana (especially Mina during the concert) showed signs of jealousy before, so realistically even if it happens in game I doubt a Edwin, Hana and Mina serious throuple relationship would last (sorry don't want to rain on your parade, but that's my opinion).
For a threesome with Edwin, Ian and Hana I'm sure it will happen, more than once even and I can't wait
Mina is also interested on a MMF threesome and I'm here for it, hope it's with Jacob

Ian and Hana? That would be so hot, maybe I haven't been paying attention, but is there any hint of that in the dialogue?

 

[Meiri]

Sorry, but your logic doesn't make much sense. A throuple with Mina and Hana would most likely depend more on choices regarding Mina and Hana, than the club itself. And even if it was linked, it would most likely be the opposite of what you're saying, like we'd have more chance of getting the throuple if we don't fully embrace the corruption of the club.

Also the beginning of Hana/Mina felt very right to me, and even if Mina seemed sort of desperate, I think the very fact that the kiss scene even exists, and that 1. Mina admitted to be attracted to both and 2. Hana isn't completely against it either, makes me think that there is a possibility, and this possibility isn't small. I mean, why else would this scene even exist ? If it leads to having to choose only one of them no matter what, then it would be kind of bad writing in my opinion (even acknowledging my biase, the very existence of this scene without any possible payoff would objectively mean bad writing). Or it's just to torture people living on hopium like me, but then... what the fuck guys ? Didn't we suffer enough, geez.

As for the Feli/Mina threesome, that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm pretty sure a Feli/Mina throuple is totally off the table. The Mina/Hana one will most likely be the only one possible.

The circumstances are different. Like dolfe said it would be FMF rather than MFM. Plus they're not the same characters, and in this case Mina and Hana are both attracted to each other as well. Edwin and Ian weren't fucking, that was the issue. Also Ian sucks at relationships. A throuple involving 3 people who are all attracted to each other, both sexually and romantically, is more likely to function.

Ah, I shouldn't have written anything. Now I'll have to resist the need to defend my Mina/Hana throuple fantasy against everyone who don't believe in it

I don't think with the way the story has been written and with what happened in the past that this will end in a throuple specially if a previous instance already failed, there may be threesomes but I think at some point they will make you pick one or get dumped.

 

[Turret]

I agree that a throuple ending is pretty doubtful, especially because the game tell us Edwin had one throuple relation before and it went badly.
I disagree with the threesome with Felish/Mina not feeling right, it felt pretty Damn right to me

Yeah that's total nonsense that that would be an "asshole" Edwin thingy...

Given that we know that we will have to choose our special LI one day, our hero already had a situation with a throuple gone bad, it is pretty much clear that any kind of throuple ending(!) will be in a bad ending.

As for the threesome Feli/Mina/MC I consider it "wrong" in the meaning that for it to happen, you loose big chances for both Felicia AND Mina romances. It is a nice threesome but nothing more, hence fuckboy stuff and you loose more in the process than you win.

A threesome Hana/Mina/MC will most probably come and be hot, but still "wrong" on the relationship end of the equation. To even get to the initiate stage of it, we see jealousy rearing it´s head. Yes, a nice fun threesome or two, but a throuple MC/Hana/Mina will never last.

So a throuple ending by design will only happen on a bad corrupted ending, because of the characters involved. e.g. Hana has nothing against having some fun and has an understanding as far as the club in involved. But beyond that, she wants an exclusive relationship. So some threesomes, esp. fun ones yes, but not longterm stuff.

 

[Turret]

Ian and Han? That would be so hot, maybe I haven't been paying attention, but is there any hint of that in the dialogue?

Well, an introspective Ian and a not/low anger Hana definitely have warming relations over the run of the game. With both Ian and Hana admitting in a roundabout way that they find each other hot.
It is a currently not very likely relationship, but it is not zero chance. It could be an option on a path where Edwin is pursuing another girl instead of Hana.

 

[Discrepancy]

Ian and Hana? That would be so hot, maybe I haven't been paying attention, but is there any hint of that in the dialogue?

My bad haha, I meant Edwin, Mina and Hana, maybe it's my mind playing tricks but yeah that would be hot too but doubtful?

 

[Discrepancy]

Given that we know that we will have to choose our special LI one day, our hero already had a situation with a throuple gone bad, it is pretty much clear that any kind of throuple ending(!) will be in a bad ending.

As for the threesome Feli/Mina/MC I consider it "wrong" in the meaning that for it to happen, you loose big chances for both Felicia AND Mina romances. It is a nice threesome but nothing more, hence fuckboy stuff and you loose more in the process than you win.

A threesome Hana/Mina/MC will most probably come and be hot, but still "wrong" on the relationship end of the equation. To even get to the initiate stage of it, we see jealousy rearing it´s head. Yes, a nice fun threesome or two, but a throuple MC/Hana/Mina will never last.

So a throuple ending by design will only happen on a bad corrupted ending, because of the characters involved. e.g. Hana has nothing against having some fun and has an understanding as far as the club in involved. But beyond that, she wants an exclusive relationship. So some threesomes, esp. fun ones yes, but not longterm stuff.

I agree with you I just don't like the word "wrong" or "bad" you use to describe it.
Like if Edwin is fuck buddies with Mina, Hana, and Felicia (don't think you can have that status though) there's nothing wrong or bad in my opinion for the consenting parties to have a threesome.
If you using it in a gaming sense, yeah is probably bad to do a threesome and lose love points or whatever in a possible love relationship with someone.
IMO Edwin pursuing a love relationship with someone at this time is extremely selfish on his part, I think with Hana is more or less ok because she knows what he's up to, but still it's a bit weird for me. In the future who knows, it dependes where the story will take us

 

[ffive]

Am I the only one who thought this was the shortest update ever that seemed to take forever to come out?

Didn't really feel short to me. It could be due to knowing beforehand it'd end right as the Exhibition begins; the amount of content was pretty much within my expectations for that time period, and relative to similar segments earlier in the game.

 

[PervyParadox]

Sure, I think it's possible, I just think it's unlikely, yeah past experience for Edwin like I said before, and yes Dolfe point and yours are true that MMF is different to MFF, but it's still relevant, a throuple relationship is complicated and both Mina and Hana (especially Mina during the concert) showed signs of jealousy before, so realistically even if it happens in game I doubt a Edwin, Hana and Mina serious throuple relationship would last (sorry don't want to rain on your parade, but that's my opinion).
Edit for correction: For a threesome with Edwin, Mina and Hana I'm sure it will happen, more than once even and I can't wait
Mina is also interested on a MMF threesome and I'm here for it, hope it's with Jacob

Mina showing sign of jealousy is balanced by the kiss scene. She literally admits that she doesn't know if she was more jealous of Edwin or Hana. Wouldn't be the best way to resolve said jealousy to date both of them at the same time ?

I don't think with the way the story has been written and with what happened in the past that this will end in a throuple specially if a previous instance already failed, there may be threesomes but I think at some point they will make you pick one or get dumped.

On the contrary I think the very existence of a previous instance means that there is a chance of getting a throuple in the end. For my arguments about that, refer to my previous message. A previously failed attempt set a precedent, and pave the way to a second attempt, but with different circumstances and characters to prevent the failure this time.

Given that we know that we will have to choose our special LI one day, our hero already had a situation with a throuple gone bad, it is pretty much clear that any kind of throuple ending(!) will be in a bad ending.

A threesome Hana/Mina/MC will most probably come and be hot, but still "wrong" on the relationship end of the equation. To even get to the initiate stage of it, we see jealousy rearing it´s head. Yes, a nice fun threesome or two, but a throuple MC/Hana/Mina will never last.

Refer to my answer above. I still don't understand why a throuple ending would be a bad one. You seem to think that the concept of a throuple means being a jerk or completely corrupted, which I don't understand. Again, the possibility of a Mina/Hana/Edwin throuple would most likely depends on variables and choices with Mina and Hana. I don't see why it should be a bad ending.

As for jealousy, it could be part of the process. There is jealousy now, but Mina offered a solution to this jealousy. If the three of them are together, then there's no reason to be jealous anymore as long as they all learn to share their time equally. Also there's a great way for it to last: by ending the game. We're probably not gonna follow up for decades after the story. Just give the players a throuple ending, and then the end. Let the player choose if it lasts or not, who cares, the game will be over anyway. I'll make it last a century, don't worry about that.

So a throuple ending by design will only happen on a bad corrupted ending, because of the characters involved. e.g. Hana has nothing against having some fun and has an understanding as far as the club in involved. But beyond that, she wants an exclusive relationship. So some threesomes, esp. fun ones yes, but not longterm stuff.

Hana didn't want to fuck Edwin at the beginning of the game either. Characters evolve, relationships evolve. Hana might accept an "exclusive" throuple, where she doesn't want Mina and Edwin fucking other people. It is consistant with all the characters. Mina is attracted to both, Hana is attracted to both, Edwin is attracted to both. They all like each other (given the right choices of course), so why not long-term stuff ? Because you guys decided a throuple can't ever work for some reason ? Well, I think it's possible, and even likely.

And I will die on that hill, damn it.

 

[shroomify]

That's especially funny when any family members in the game use the same last name.

I use Max Headroom most the time. Ha

 

[PervyTurtleSage]

Can anyone let me know if Chapter 4 or the arc is finished? I'm saving up episodes until C5

 

[Idontplay]

The Chapter 4 will end with the next update; if I'm not wrong.

 

[UmbralKnight]

I think it's quite the opposite; nepotism may very well shield him in situations where an employee without close ties to management would get thrown under the bus.

we shall see if it's true

as long as he remains on good terms with him, he can expect quite better protection than your average Joe.

chuck doesn't seem bothered when MC and Ian get beaten up by oliver
even if you're in very good terms with chuck
he just brushes it off and lets august handle it
though august did it for the club at this point he is more likely to protect the MC than chuck from any physical threats

Drug labs are also quite normal thing for a drug-oriented business to set up.

a drug lab so normal that kathy is hiding it's purpose from her partners?
yeah ,I don't think so

'd also be very surprised if research of say, viagra, didn't involve getting participants/test subjects in sex-related situations, give the actual nature of the research.

i would say the viagra comparison doesn't really track 1:1 sure viagra has a huge list of potentially life threatening side effects
but nothing quite potent like the drug abel and kathy are testing rn in the club
it messes with your mind and memory even if you're indirectly exposed to it for a short time

As opposed to what, legal businesses which openly endorse and promote cult mentality from their workers in order to exploit them better? Hello, professional games industry where if you're not crunching 20 hours a day on the AAA title you're not a "true gamer" but a loser who doesn't belong.

that's a very hyperbolic statement
but i did mean it
the entire club is just a few steps away from being turned into a sexcult from a sexclub especially given kathleens dark nature
wouldn't be the first time now would it ?
there are many such instances IRL too

Consider this: the club has run multiple editions of the Exhibition, each of them with a handful of participants. If you "never really quit the club" how comes we only see/hear about just one of them? Shouldn't all the losers, or at least some of them, be still around, sucking dicks and getting fucked, the way that you claim Felicia is bound to be doing if she doesn't win?

let's break it down shall we
i would say the vast majority of the girls who didn't "make" it to the carnations finale probably ended up working for the men who were their sponsors either directly or they work their debt to the club
lucy is one such example

so that would mean each year atleast some of these women end up working for their sponsors or other members of the club

then you have guys like august/donovon who probably turn these girls into regular prostitutes/escorts/pornstars that work for them
they're already trading regular working girls with eachother so it shouldn't be a stretch to assume that they don't "trade" the loosers to other clubs around the city/state etc

and finally though kathleen doesn't seem to care much about the women who participate in these games
I suspect she finds great joy in tormenting the handful of previous carnations that actually "made" it
those who managed to survive her games like allision
this must be a handful at best given what we know of kathleen

but i do admit that it's kind of strange that we don't hear anyone talk about previous carnations and house girls
even though both hana and ian has been around long enough

What do you think is going to happen to Edwin if he simply tries to quit? You keep talking how the club will never let him or anyone for that matter quit so come on. What do you believe happen to him?

the most obvious answer is blackmail
MC has everything to loose and kathleen holds most of the strings
she could simply hold his money hostage and make him dance for her tunes (atleast until he completes his education)
but even becoming a doctor isn't going to change much
how different is it from being a "mob" doctor or a emergency medic for a cartel?

kathleen and the club members aren't going to let an "asset" like the MC just walk away when they could potentially use his services for decades to come

or she could end up brainwashing the MC and groom him to becoming her minion

she already has almost everything she needs to ruin his life legally and otherwise

but of course the MC could also be "wacked" if he tries something really stupid
like becoming a whistleblower that tries to expose the whole thing

I'm not sure if Grace even knows the club exists. She is just trying for Victoria to get her bidding, but it has nothing to do with the club.

oh she definitely knows more about the MC than Victoria or any of the LIs
she literally says that she KNOWS everything because chuck TELLS her EVERYTHING
she repeats the line again to Victoria to emphasize that she knows pretty much everything that chuck knows

may i remind you that Victoria's response to that "hook" was simply "fuck you"? So much for the scary hooks.

after that simple "fuck you" we have seen events only from Victoria's side
even that single threat alone shook victoria enough that she confessed the truth to MC and Ian
we still haven't seen things from grace's perspective and we don't know what's going to happen when grace tells chuck what happened or what's she is going to do next after failing to convince victoria

Between Rose scamming old people out of their money for her husband and Mina's sex bucket list i think they may be more flexible about these things that you give them credit for. At least in Mina's case there's more than a few posters around here who are actually salivating at the idea of her getting in the business herself.

now who is the delusional one here ?

he cannot damage her much, should he ever win at chess, since she is too valuable.

not directly
but just like how kathleen is trying to use MC to angle hana
i suspect chuck will use MC to get back at abel through sophie

Kath never let´s you out of her grasp completely.

exactly

is there any hint of that in the dialogue?

no
but you have to admit haters turning to lovers is one of the most common tropes

the arc is finished?

arc ?
If you mean week 3 of the carnation games then no
It's not finished

 

[Turret]

Refer to my answer above. I still don't understand why a throuple ending would be a bad one. You seem to think that the concept of a throuple means being a jerk or completely corrupted, which I don't understand. Again, the possibility of a Mina/Hana/Edwin throuple would most likely depends on variables and choices with Mina and Hana. I don't see why it should be a bad ending.

Hi again!
You seem to misunderstand my reasoning. I am not against throuples, far from it, but in "Pale Carnations" the general situation points towards lasting(!) throuples only on corrupted paths. The characters involved, as mentioned Hana, who has no problems with some threesome fun, but has made it clear from early on (birthday party) that she prefers exclusive longterm relationships. There is a reason why the game counts if Edwin cheats on "girlfriend Hana", that will have consequences.
As said, Hana is open to threesomes, be it with Mina or maybe even introspective Ian, but that is for fun. If Mina tried to get "more Edwin" such a throuple would turn sour rapidly.