Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

hrmf

Member
Sep 15, 2016
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At $30K+ months, I don't think Patreon want to lose them
I mean, that number is big for Patreon, but if you break it down they take , or $1,500 monthly, meaning $18K annually. That's not nothing, but consider that they raised $60 million just recently at a valuation of $450 million. Their business model is to get small cuts from tons of small transactions, so they want their audience to be broad, not deep. If their brand becomes "the premier english-language destination for games about incest" and that drives off a lot of smaller operations who would otherwise have used them, then they are in a spot of trouble.
 

fauxplayer

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May 28, 2017
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I mean, that number is big for Patreon, but if you break it down they take , or $1,500 monthly, meaning $18K annually. That's not nothing, but consider that they raised $60 million just recently at a valuation of $450 million. Their business model is to get small cuts from tons of small transactions, so they want their audience to be broad, not deep. If their brand becomes "the premier english-language destination for games about incest" and that drives off a lot of smaller operations who would otherwise have used them, then they are in a spot of trouble.
Agreed. So much this. There have been many "Patreon is shooting themselves in the foot" types of comments, but if they simply deleted developers' accounts for every single game you can find on F95zone, that would be more like trimming their fingernails. Or trimming one fingernail. It would be not only pain free, but make them look better groomed, too (from their own POV, I mean). It's not just brand-consciousness (excuse me while I throw up in my mouth a little bit) that they have to be concerned about, but PayPal is notorious for not facilitating payment for adult content. They're not going to respond to calls for "free speech" just to placate their main billing facilitator. That would be shooting themselves in the foot. Patreon fought this fight once (to their credit!! ), but unfortunately they're not going to fight it again ( ).

A multimillion-dollar enterprise is acting in its own best interest at the temporary cost of a tiny fraction of its users and revenue. Shocking, right?! It's unfortunate that the home for so many developers of adult games and other sexual content is pushing them out, and it's confusing that some developers seem to have skated by without hassle while others are having their feet placed to the fire, but this has zero to do with censorship or free speech or any of that nonsense high-school sophomores like to invoke whenever a platform for objectionable content is taken away. Rape, incest, and underage sex are all illegal in real life, but I can make a fictional game containing all three, and the First Amendment means I won't be arrested, nor will the government prevent access to the content, because despite its Puritanical underpinnings, the USA is a pretty free country. But stop with the "free speech!" nonsense; it just makes you look uneducated and uninformed.
 
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KnightAngleBoi7

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I agree that Patreon is heading for a "death by a thousand cuts" if they aren't careful, they don't seem to realize that not all high incomes patreons have a high amount of backers, and not all "low incomes" ones have low amount of backers.
 
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monkeybird69

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I think you're fucked, in the long run anyway. Your "genetic disorder" brought a big smile to my face, it looked like interesting creative approach to the problem. But it would be too easy, the world is going other way.

You'd think that people would appreciate what advances in computer technology allow us to do. You can create any kind of crazy shit, to please even the most twisted minds. Violence, animals, minors, zombies, incest, ... anything you like, the list is endless. Want a game where blood related family of underage zombies eat and fuck each other, including their living neigbours and pets? I don't, but I'm sure someone would like it. But most important is all possibly real stuff, you no longer need to involve any actual living being to make it, so no one can be hurt. Ain't that great? Sadly, telling the difference between fiction and reality is too much for too many people. Plus it's all niche stuff. So when some self-proclaimed saviour decides to ban it, be it on their website (well, that's their right) or worse by law (already happening in some countries), who will protest? Nobody, "just a few freaks" at most, there won't be any real opposition. General public either doesn't care or will cheer for the saviour. The future is not looking bright.
That zombie game sounds awesome. I have the perfect Title for it. "The Taste of Mommy" or maybe "Night of the Family Humping Dead" in memory of George Romero.
 

Faerin

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Jul 14, 2017
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@Everyone Hey guys, as promised this is the reply I got from Patreon, feel free to share this with other creators. For now, I need to do some hard thinking as this has a major impact on my game...

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Ignazzio

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May 8, 2017
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Oh crap. It looks serious. Seems like they defined their viewpoint at least. If they're gonna apply that many devs won't make it.
 
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Bloo

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Aug 18, 2016
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@Everyone Hey guys, as promised this is the reply I got from Patreon, feel free to share this with other creators. For now, I need to do some hard thinking as this has a major impact on my game...

We define incest as sexual activity between family members or relatives. We also include larger extended family, which means that we don’t only look at the blood line but also stepfamily members whether or not they are bound by law. If for example the characters call each other sister and brother or mother and son, we will review the content as incest. For clarification, your assumption is correct. The Community Guidelines apply to all content that is funded through Patreon -- this extends to content that is patron-only, as well as the content itself, no matter where it's shared with patrons. For example, I've seen creators where their Patreon page looks "clean," but saw that they kept sharing violative content through direct messages. This would still be a violation as the creator is using Patreon to fund and share the violative content. As for your second question: hosting Patreon-funded content on other sites is acceptable as long as the content falls within our Community Guidelines. If we see violative Patreon-funded content linked back to Patreon, we reserve the right to hold the creator accountable to our guidelines. I can see a creator having a "dual" presence online: a website that hosts content that's considered violative to Patreon's guidelines, and a Patreon account where they fund content of a different theme -- but there is no link or relation between the two. As long as there's no "Check out my Patreon page here" on the hosting website, then it wouldn't be a violation.
The message above seems important so i'm re-posting for visibility, thank you Faerin for sharing.
 
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xןʞ

I trolled so N7 could soar.
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Honestly it kind of seems like some sort of situation where they saw the open letter and read it being about fears from female sexuality and lgbt people worried about their patreon accounts.

So it appears now Patreon is basically doing some sort of 180 type deal "oh no we weren't actually talking about ALL adult or pornographic content, just the socially icky stuff like incest and beast games and animations, you women and LGBT people all agree that stuff is bad right!"
 

Dasati

Active Member
May 30, 2017
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The only thing giving me slender hope right now is that Patreon didn't go the easy route which would of been once they changed their guidelines to just do a blanket ban of all patreons violating them.
 

Ignazzio

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May 8, 2017
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This letter didn't even mention anything related to adult games so I suppose it's not the biggest fish in a pond. Devs made this themselves, to some extent, making all those obviously copy-paste incest games without any consideration but Patreon should've react when it all started if they didn't want to have such a thing there. Now they clarified what's incest and that paywall isn't enough and that's cool, but they didn't say anything about their reaction on violations. They even mentioned some creators obviously violating their rules after their suspension and they're not saying they will ban them or anything. More answers more questions
 

Delmach

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Oct 3, 2017
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At least that makes it pretty easy to say its really all about their "image", since the mere mention of being related is what they dont want. With someone depicted as too young it doesnt matter how you want to explain it, whereas in this case your own story or writing would declare the notion they wouldnt like to see.

So on one side you cant argue with fiction when they are too young, and on the other side they actually "listen" to your fiction when its incest and say thats a no go.

About that linking, there are ways to make linking offsite anonymous, arent there? So Patreon wouldnt know where that person clicked the link to get to the Patreon site. Or just dont make a clickable link, sure sets some people off if you have to copy something and maybe delete a number/letter to make a real link, but still, better than nothing.
 

Ignazzio

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May 8, 2017
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FYI: Some of which I asked them in reply.
Will post here if I have an update.
Thanks man. These answers are essential. Regardless of them: I feel sorry for you. Even if they won't care for most devs, your reviewer (and inredeemable's) is a big deal. Don't know how your game could be saved from such statements.
For a big, successfu company their communication methods are on the level of kindergarten.
 
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Dasati

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May 30, 2017
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"Big" is relative, they a company of 80 people atm and not all of those are on the support team.
 

Ignazzio

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"Big" is relative, they a company of 80 people atm and not all of those are on the support team.
Yeah, not Microsoft level but still pretty big for me. At least financially. 80 people can't write a message: "We don't like incest anymore. Remove or ban." That would clarify a lot for us
 

xןʞ

I trolled so N7 could soar.
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FYI: Some of which I asked them in reply.
Will post here if I have an update.
Honestly ask them straight up if you do get in contact with them again.

Why are you just seemingly only going after game makers when your stance is supposed to be anti-pornographic material in exchange for patronage, yet you haven't gone after a single girl selling porn pictures or videos(or used underwear) to patrons.
 
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thanatos69

Member
Oct 28, 2016
290
580
Honestly ask them straight up if you do get in contact with them again.

Why are you just seemingly only going after game makers when your stance is supposed to be anti-pornographic material in exchange for patronage, yet you haven't gone after a single girl selling porn pictures or videos(or used underwear) to patrons.
This and 100x this. Sick and tired of cam whores who charge 100$ to show a nipple
 

Bloo

The Angry Person
Former Staff
Aug 18, 2016
2,970
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Patreon Data Based On Graphtreon

Adult Content Creators:

1,388 Adult Games
2,692 Adult Videos
554 Adult Cosplay
654 Adult Animations
2,429 Adult Comics
298 Adult Music
1,257 Adult Writing
3,625 Adult Drawing & Painting
344 Adult Podcast
1,109 Adult Chotography
17 Adult Crafts DIY
36 Adult Dance Theater
37 Adult Magazine

Mainstream Content Creators:
22,534 Videos
5,006 Podcast
5,594 Music
5,212 Comics
5,593 Writing
5,628 Games
885 Animations
5,187 Drawing & Paintings
806 Photography
194 Crafts DIY
254 Dance Theater
1,233 Cosplay
327 Magazine

TOTAL:
Adult: 14440
Mainstream: 58453
All: 72893

This data only takes into account user numbers, not revenue. But keep in mind that of the top 1000, 286 are NSFW. That's over 1 quarter of the top earners.

PS: I fucking hate numbers.
 

Daxter250

Forum Fanatic
Sep 17, 2017
4,669
12,676
you know what? the fact that incest is forbidden on patreon doesn't disturb me thaaaat much. it's just simple rewriting for the developer (using the prefix step- ^^) and a lil' modding so horny people can change it to real incest again ;). what bothers me the most is the fact, that rape and beastiality are forbidden. jesus, that would mean, that almost all if not all hentai rpg games are forbidden.
famous makers like bbben or swegabe would have huuuge problems. and adorevia roundscape is full of forbidden stuff too, no way to rewrite everything there!
 
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Delmach

Member
Oct 3, 2017
410
392
Im hoping they dont go the same route for other things they mentioned, when everything else (as in the big five + Blackmail/Coercion apparently) would be gone and they go after Corruption/Slighty Forced/Mind Control, there would be only the smallest community for that, not many are that vanilla when it comes to fiction. Not to mention some makers have a vision, or have passion, probably since the market really does not have any comparable games/videos.

Still hoping for the best, ways to outdo them, or not let them know. Might be good to not make the game mention Family at all for the first few minutes, im still pretty sure they cant and wont check games, but that would be another barrier, as in time is money, even for them.

And if it really comes to that, honestly, which people would patreon games with tamer stuff than you see in TV, or read in books? That would be the point where a new platform is needed anyway. Either Patreon suspends the page or makers probably lose most patreon because of vanilla unicorn carebear land.