Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

[anne O'nymous]

If anyone has more infos about Hatreon, Enty or any other site like that, please share. We all need a plan B for the future.

There's a whole thread talking about this plan B (and too much about hatreon) :

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Ark Thompson]

Oh... I shoul've posted there -_- Thanks for the link.

 

[Bawdy Ink Slinger]

I have a question and I don't know the appropriate place to ask it. Let's say hypothetically somebody wanted to build an alternative that did not have these issues, what payment processors could that alternative site use?

I did a little research on my own and saw that PayPal and stripe do not allow adult content. Technically I think that means that patreon could lose the ability for people to support anything on the site because there is adult content on patreon and you support patreons by using PayPal.

This is very ironic to me. Patreon must be feeling the same pressure that we are feeling as game developers. At any moment PayPal could drop the hammer and suspend their site from making any money, right?

Anyway my real question is, if somebody wanted to make an alternative where can they find payment processors that officially support the idea of NSFW games without risking the payment processor from pulling the plug?

 

[Paz]

This is very ironic to me. Patreon must be feeling the same pressure that we are feeling as game developers. At any moment PayPal could drop the hammer and suspend their site from making any money, right?

Anyway my real question is, if somebody wanted to make an alternative where can they find payment processors that officially support the idea of NSFW games without risking the payment processor from pulling the plug?

Sidenote: I'm pretty confident that Paypal are aware of Patreon's content, but Patreon had a pretty low charge-back credibility before they went knocking on their door.

As for payment processors that are ok with adult content, there's always the usual players like CCBill/Epoch/Zombaio, as well as less known (or credible) like paysite-cash etc.

That said, usual problems with using such payment processors involve:
1. The customer actually trusting the processor enough to provide their CC info for billing (I for one would be wary of using some obscure billing service), and
2. Some banks have such processors blacklisted by default due to high charge-back rates, and a customer would have to manually contact them and ask for a blockade withdrawal on occasions, something I'm willing to bet many are not fond of doing.

 

[Bawdy Ink Slinger]

As for payment processors that are ok with adult content, there's always the usual players like CCBill/Epoch/Zombaio, as well as less known (or credible) like paysite-cash etc.

To any of these support monthly subscriptions? I don't get what alternative could exist. I feel like the internet pays with PayPal. If you were to make a patreon competitor for not safe for work games, PayPal would probably shut it down before it could become a success. And if you use one of these alternatives, it could probably never become a success in the first place. The only hope is to use PayPal and hope they don't notice long enough for you to become successful.

A better alternative would probably be to copy patreon model and allow all types of content including not safe for work and just sweep it under the rug like patreon does.

 

[Ark Thompson]

Technically, the paiement providers are often the reason why some sites ban some content (it's not that often that they ban stuff only based on their personal wishes). BUT, if you have the money needed, you can actually bypass Paypal's limitations. What I'm about to explain works for creators to be paid with Paypal, not for pledgers to pay with Paypal (but honestly, I find the former more important than the later).

The Japanese site DLsite has a branch in the US called Curious Factory. Everything coming from anywhere in the world but Japan goes through that branch (I'm talking about digital products (games, mangas, doujins etc...)). Where it becomes interesting is that in the end, your product do get sold on Dlsite in the end (that's the goal after all).

What's interesting to notice is that thanks to that US company, DLsite can pay the foreign authors with Paypal. Cause you're not paid by DLsite, you're paid by Curious Factory. And Curious Factory doesn't sell adult stuff, DLsite does it. So while customers can't use Paypal to buy adult stuff (of course, it would be obvious as fuck), creators are paid with Paypal.

So while it needs a huge logistics, lots of funds etc... It is, I think, possible to bypass Paypal's adult restriction using the same kind of method.

Another possible way (let's dream but I'm cynical enough to believe it) is to make a site generating so much money that even Paypal would want its share even if it means dropping the adult stuff restriction. And considering the world's adult market, if we were all hosted on a same site, it would indeed represent enough money to raise their interest (after all, Patreon achieved that feat being the first to allow Paypal paiement for adult stuff). But that's even harder to put in place than the previous option 8D

 

[Paz]

To any of these support monthly subscriptions?

Both CCBill and Epoch support recurring billing (basically a subscription), and I'd assume the rest do as well.
Also, another thing I forgot to mention earlier is that should someone decide to use one of such processors, he should expect a somewhat big % fee (I think Epoch charges 15% per transaction).

Edit: To add to this, Epoch seems to allow Paypal payments so it's probably the most favorable choice of the above.

 

[Faerin]

Hey guys, just a quick update from me, as promised.
Basically I didn't get much new information, but I figured I'd share it anyway, maybe it helps someone:

I'm sorry for the delay, and thank you for the thoughtful questions.

On my question if changing the dialogs to remove any mom/sister/etc. would be sufficient:
To answer your first question, if you made those changes in the gameplay, it seems like your game would not involve incestual relationships anymore -- the new version would be within with our guidelines.

On my question why some creators seemingly get away with more than others:
If you see the issue you mentioned with other creators, we want to hear about it -- you can report them to me here or through this form. (which I already said in my previous mail that I wouldn't do, so this seems more like a formality)
Due to the nature of the review process, I'm not at liberty to discuss other creators. We put a lot of thought and care into crafting these guidelines. The review process can be lengthy, but I also want to make sure that it is thorough.

I'd be more than happy to continue this conversation as you make the changes to your game, and answer any question that you may have along the way.

This could be interpreted as them saying "as long as we get no formal complaint, we'll just turn a blind eye", but that might be just me. Personally I did change my game, as I just don't want to be at risk after putting so much time and effort in.

Then again, for me it's pretty easy as my game is pretty mod-friendly and most of my dialog gets loaded through external xml files, so I just added an additional mapping.xml containing all names and roles...

 

[Ignazzio]

Ok so these news are pretty positive. Now we have to wait for another message from Patreon saying something totally different. I guess it's better to hide behind a paywall and ignore those guys as they seem to don't give a crap about their own set of rules. I wonder what would they do if you would report them back all devs from this site to review

 

[OhWee]

Hey guys, just a quick update from me, as promised.
Basically I didn't get much new information, but I figured I'd share it anyway, maybe it helps someone:

I'm sorry for the delay, and thank you for the thoughtful questions.

On my question if changing the dialogs to remove any mom/sister/etc. would be sufficient:
To answer your first question, if you made those changes in the gameplay, it seems like your game would not involve incestual relationships anymore -- the new version would be within with our guidelines.

On my question why some creators seemingly get away with more than others:
If you see the issue you mentioned with other creators, we want to hear about it -- you can report them to me here or through this form. (which I already said in my previous mail that I wouldn't do, so this seems more like a formality)
Due to the nature of the review process, I'm not at liberty to discuss other creators. We put a lot of thought and care into crafting these guidelines. The review process can be lengthy, but I also want to make sure that it is thorough.

I'd be more than happy to continue this conversation as you make the changes to your game, and answer any question that you may have along the way.

This could be interpreted as them saying "as long as we get no formal complaint, we'll just turn a blind eye", but that might be just me. Personally I did change my game, as I just don't want to be at risk after putting so much time and effort in.

Then again, for me it's pretty easy as my game is pretty mod-friendly and most of my dialog gets loaded through external xml files, so I just added an additional mapping.xml containing all names and roles...

Yeah, gotta luv the 'feel free to rat out other developers' comment...

 

[xןʞ]

Yeah, gotta luv the 'feel free to rat out other developers' comment...

A part of me feels like that was part of the initial reason why some devs got targeted and not others.

Someone out there is snitching on other devs like crazy either out of jealousy thinking said dev's game shouldn't be making more money than theirs or some other reason, becasue it is definitely odd they went after who they did and not just straight down the line #1/#2/#3 violator by income like you would assume.

So yeah I definitely feel like some of the people who got suspended got told on by fellow devs or angry leeches(because I would assume you wouldn't tell on the dev you are actually supporting)

 

[NTR is love NTR is life]

Patreon dares to put their hands on my beloved NTR and things are gonna get ugly.

They'll feel the power of a cuck's wrath.

 

[Ignazzio]

That would mean the best way to support you developer is to report every other. That way they will be suspended for a few days and the chosen one will grow in numbers. Damn there are so many of them I don't know how to start:/

 

[thanatos69]

A part of me feels like that was part of the initial reason why some devs got targeted and not others.

Someone out there is snitching on other devs like crazy either out of jealousy thinking said dev's game shouldn't be making more money than theirs or some other reason, becasue it is definitely odd they went after who they did and not just straight down the line #1/#2/#3 violator by income like you would assume.

So yeah I definitely feel like some of the people who got suspended got told on by fellow devs or angry leeches(because I would assume you wouldn't tell on the dev you are actually supporting)

I don't think that's the case. BB dev is probably the most hated one and he was one of the few who didn't get banned.

 

[mirenzo]

Well, if PayPal is against any "adult content", what the difference between "incest porn" and "not incest porn"?
We are talking about Patreon don't allow only incest or porn at all? Maybe "normal" porn it's less porn than incest porn? I loose myself....

 

[Caligula]

That would mean the best way to support you developer is to report every other. That way they will be suspended for a few days and the chosen one will grow in numbers. Damn there are so many of them I don't know how to start:/

I really hope you're joking...

 

[axel797]

Sorry to say, but the devs have exactly what they deserve. Their front page practically screamed "incest", "rape", "loli", etc. When you are doing adult games you don't need this type of description on your Patreon site, because 99.9 percent of your patrons know about your game from places like f95, porn sites, etc.

And when you're doing this type of game, when you start earning big money on this game, it is in your own interest to stay "underground". It is your own interest to keep the Patreon site "crystal-clear". At least publicly accessible part of your site.

But if the devs wanted people to find their sites using Google, that's exactly what happened. People found their sites. People from PayPal, Visa, Mastercard

 

[Ignazzio]

I really hope you're joking...

Ehh... Yeah, that was a joke. My fap meterial is saint and I wouldn't do that ofc

 

[anne O'nymous]

But if the devs wanted people to find their sites using Google, that's exactly what happened. People found their sites. People from PayPal, Visa, Mastercard

Oh, you know, Visa and Mastercard don't care this much. They're fully aware that their services were, and still sometimes are, used for things worse than funding an incest game.
And for the rest of your comment, what to say ? I agree that some creators gone too far, but it doesn't mean that they should have stay underground. There's no shame do make a porn game, whatever the content except real pedo one (and still, if it's just a game...), and no shame to play a porn game.
Mostly if we all goes anonymous, it's not because we are afraid or ashamed, but because we all have a family. We don't care of the consequences for ourselves, but don't want them to imply our families. It's like that. People can think whatever they want about me, they can call me names or worse, I don't care... But I care about the fact that one day my daughter can come back from school, crying because some bitchy mom learned that her father make mod for porn games ; well, she's old enough to not care now, but you understand what I mean, right ?

 

[mirenzo]

Sorry to say, but the devs have exactly what they deserve. Their front page practically screamed "incest", "rape", "loli", etc. When you are doing adult games you don't need this type of description on your Patreon site, because 99.9 percent of your patrons know about your game from places like f95, porn sites, etc.

And when you're doing this type of game, when you start earning big money on this game, it is in your own interest to stay "underground". It is your own interest to keep the Patreon site "crystal-clear". At least publicly accessible part of your site.

But if the devs wanted people to find their sites using Google, that's exactly what happened. People found their sites. People from PayPal, Visa, Mastercard

Sorry axel797 but you where did you find us (F95), under Holy Roman Catholic Church? If you looking for "Porn" or "Adult games", you know what you will find. Maybe porn between "Husband and Wife" is less porn than "Brother and Sister"? We are obviously talking about pixel that make porn between pixel! I don't even know if we can consider porn two-pixel making love!