Patreon is the worst enemy of all adult game players

[PietruccioTheHilander]

Why can't we just buy finished products instead of monthly subscription model?
This is really bad.

We always have unfinished trashes and that's all.

you're playing AWAM, tell the truth

 

[Atemsiel]

90% of threads like this that I see seem to be from the perspective of people who have never tried making something like this. You don't need to be a professional chef to tell if something tastes good, or if it's overpriced or whatever, but only an idiot would argue with a professional chef about the challenges you face in a professional kitchen just because they've eaten at a few different restaurants. It reads as "Why can't you just caremelise the onions faster?"

It's not a perfect analogy since you don't pay for a subscription to eat at a restaurant, but you get the idea. Businesses start based on initial investement. If you don't have an initial investement, such is the case with most games like this, how can it be sustained without subscriptions? Sure, devs can work on the game for free in just their spare time, and most do I'd say, but it's exactly that. It's work. Not many people are willing to work for thousands of hours, for free, on the off chance that what they're working on might make some money in a few years once it's done. And that's assuming it doesn't get shut down or denied by the sales or payment platform being used for being a porn game.

This isn't Japan, the west doesn't have the same legitimised smut industry that they do. Nobody is paying salaries to devs to make porn games unless those salaries come from subscription money. (Or microtransactions like with Nutaku games)
This kind of thing just isn't a good or safe investment in the west. Take away all the games currently in development on this site, and I imagine the next thread would be "Why isn't anyone releasing any games?"

 

[Skylar Reign]

 

[Hadley]

So if Patreon didn't exist we would magically have a scene of indie devs spending years making a game in secret without getting paid a cent for it and then releasing it? Yeah, that makes sense...

Ever heard of Indie Games? They dont get a bunch of money before making their Games.

I hate Patreon too, because that gives most Devs ZERO incentive to actually try to finish their Games asap. Look at a scam like Summertime Saga where they absolutely do nothing. WTF did they actually do in the past Year besides collecting money?

 

[Müptezel Emo]

Ever heard of Indie Games? They dont get a bunch of money before making their Games.

I hate Patreon too, because that gives most Devs ZERO incentive to actually try to finish their Games asap. Look at a scam like Summertime Saga where they absolutely do nothing. WTF did they actually do in the past Year besides collecting money?

Yeah, this is definitely my point.
Instead of v0.001, they need to have something more to show players when introducing their games.
Most people in the adult gaming industry are just here because they see their big brothers like ICSTOR making money with daz/renpy/free music formula.

 

[Monstrous Moonshine]

Why can't we just buy finished products instead of monthly subscription model?
This is really bad.

We always have unfinished trashes and that's all.

I saw the title and immediately thought: "YES! YES! I AGREE!" Sadly then I read your alarmingly hot take which fails to consider the real reason that "Patreon is the worst enemy of all adult game players", which is of course their policies. Those that limit content, and penalize creators who do not pay them homage. They are the liege lords of subscriber-based crowdfunding, while we are but their irrelevant peons, subject to their fickle whims. Anyway, I have digressed enough. Given your reasoning you are wrong in this case, sadly, it is a necessary evil. If it were not for platforms like Patreon, where would indie creators find the capital required to engage in such a niché and taboo venture as the production of eroge? Last I checked venture capitalists weren't sinking millions into this industry, rather as the consumers (and subscribers) we are. Until you can rectify the economics of it, we are subject to platforms such as Patreon and SubscribeStar, whether you like it or not.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

Ever heard of Indie Games? They dont get a bunch of money before making their Games.

If we pretend lots of indie games don't also use Patreon or Kickstarter, then sure.

I hate Patreon too, because that gives most Devs ZERO incentive to actually try to finish their Games asap. Look at a scam like Summertime Saga where they absolutely do nothing. WTF did they actually do in the past Year besides collecting money?

I think that's wrong. For lots of devs getting some money on Patreon gives them an incentive to work on their game because they're building a community and feel obligated to give back to their fans. Motivating yourself to work on a project is a lot harder if you're doing it completely alone without anybody knowing about it, which is most often the case with adult game devs.

Now, can that also lead to milking and complacency? Sure, but I think the trade-off is worth it. Nobody is forcing you to piss your money away on Summertime Saga.

 

[Winterfire]

Why can't we just buy finished products instead of monthly subscription model?
This is really bad.

We always have unfinished trashes and that's all.

You have no idea of what you are talking about, like all the other people who make the same thread over and over again.
My response to that is always "Patreon is not a shop." If Patreon was a shop, there would be another crowdfunding platform called something else, that is because Patreon did not invent the concept of crowdfunding... In fact, its roots are really old, crowdfunding has always existed.

Some developers do end up selling their game once they are completed, some others (like me) leave it free.
So, as RedKnight suggested, search for one of the thousand of completed games, and buy them. Patreon is for those who want to support the developer and their projects, like a donation.

 

[DuniX]

If it were not for platforms like Patreon, where would indie creators find the capital required to engage in such a niché and taboo venture as the production of eroge?

The problem is not that they use Patreon or use Daz3D.
The problem is as anne O'nymous so wonderfully described in his post about the "features" of "western" games, just because you Can doesn't mean you Should.

 

[Müptezel Emo]

If we pretend lots of indie games don't also use Patreon or Kickstarter, then sure.

Yes, but they are not starting crowdfunding from v0.001 while all adult games starting from this stage.

You have no idea of what you are talking about, like all the other people who make the same thread over and over again.

And, this is the same bullshit answer.
Nobody says crowdfunding is a bad thing. But literally all adult game devs starting crowdfunding from v0.001 and this is really problem.

 

[Winterfire]

And, this is the same bullshit answer.
Nobody says crowdfunding is a bad thing. But literally all adult game devs starting crowdfunding from v0.001 and this is really problem.

I agree, using bullshit versioning is a problem. They should use the standard versioning for clarity (Major Release . Minor Release . Patch) so the first version would be 0.01.0 or 0.1.0 or an alternative which makes it clearer/simple rather than putting random numbers, such as "Chapter 1", "Episode 1" or the one I currently use (Release 1/R1).

 

[anne O'nymous]

Yes, but they are not starting crowdfunding from v0.001 while all adult games starting from this stage.

I totally agree on this. Indie devs are not crowdfunding from a version 0.001...

In place, indie devs are starting a crowdfunding campaign with an idea and absolutely no code, nor script, to back it up. Unlike devs using Patreon, who have something (relatively) playable to show, they don't even have an Alpha, and don't even know if what they want is doable. But they have nice artworks, that rarely make it into the game, and seducing sentences describing a dreaming game...
Except that this dreaming game is nothing more than that, a dream. There's an astounding number of projects that raisded millions during their crowdfunding campaign, just to deliver, two or more years later, some shit that the worse dev on Patreon would do with less than 10,000. And this is without counting all the project who were never finished, the devs just vanishing after a months of none kept promises.

But yeah, the scam is Patreon and its patronage model, sure...

 

[gman1119]

It lets devs gauge interest in their game, and therefore you get more games trying new things, taking chances. Not that there isn't a ton of cookie cutter, me too games out there, but it would be way worse without Patreon or Subscribe Star

 

[Müptezel Emo]

"For those people, let me just say this: You don't know how long it takes to make a game, even if it's a simple one like mine. You have no idea how much work goes into this. I haven't been slacking off. Everyone on the team works hard to put out this huge update. Posting updates and getting comments like that makes me not want to post updates." - Dr. Sin ( Midnight Paradise)

 

[Winterfire]

I am Not your friend

can we become friends

 

[The Masked Man]

Patreon is the enemy because they don't allow non-consent.

Isn't not allowing sth a form of non-consensual relationship tho

 

[anne O'nymous]

I am Not your friend, for all I care I would love nothing more that half of the projects here to disappear together with their community.

We would miss you.

I am not your target audience, your target audience is those skeletons that died of old age and anne O'nymous which is an immortal cyborg.

Beware, there's millions of skeletons all around the world, and I'm just immortal (until proven otherwise).


By the way, since he was explicitly quoting someone, should it be "I'm not his freind" and "I'm not his target audience" ? I'm asking for all the none native speakers confused by your phrasing.

 

[Donjoe81]

In order to develop a game you need to invest time and money. No Money=No Game
I think if there wasn´t a Patreon or other sites like them, most games you see here wouldn´t exist.

 

[Müptezel Emo]

In order to develop a game you need to invest time and money. No Money=No Game
I think if there wasn´t a Patreon or other sites like them, most games you see here wouldn´t exist.

Son, quick life lesson for you.
Game devs are not paid workers. They are entrepreneurs.

 

[Donjoe81]

Son, quick life lesson for you.
Game devs are not paid workers. They are entrepreneurs.

No shit Sherlock, but you just can´t pull a game out of your ass and throw it on the market when you don´t even have the capital to develop the product. Most of these games here are not developed by studios, but by one person who probably has a main job to pay his cost of living and couldn´t finance the game by their own.