Patreon is the worst enemy of all adult game players

[Müptezel Emo]

No shit Sherlock, but you just can´t pull a game out of your ass and throw it on the market when you don´t even have the capital to develop the product. Most of these games here are not developed by studios, but by one person who probably has a main job to pay his cost of living and couldn´t finance the game by their own.

Another dumb...
"Indie Game Development"

 

[Donjoe81]

Another dumb...
"Indie Game Development"

Another dumb comment.

 

[Müptezel Emo]

Another dumb comment.

Average femdom fan

 

[BigotedHypocriteDeveloper]

The Asian scene is the poorest in terms of writing and character development. It goes for the adult gaming scene at the opposite of what happen for the comics scene, Asian are far behind in terms of final quality.
Oh, of course, the dialogs themselves are generally better than half of what you can find on the Western scene, but it's a small parts of the "writing". In Asian games, the characters are way more stereotypical than on the Western scene, and they rarely evolve ; what a character is at the start of the game, is what she'll be at the end of it. In a way, this tell a lot about the cultural difference ; when it come to seduction, the mind matters more than the appearance.
As for the stories themselves, they also are purely stereotypical, focusing on a single point and never going outside of clearly defined and perfectly cleared paths. Stories that don't fully rely around the characters are rare on the Asian scene. When it's a male protagonist VN, you know that the whole story will be about learning more about the girl. And when it's a female protagonist VN, the story will be about her learning to accept her place in this world ; a place that is generally nothing else than being a sex tool. This while, on Western scene, stories are generally something that happen in the background. Even when the VN focus more on the characters themselves, you'll witness their journey through the events of the world, seeing how it affect them and make them evolve.

If you want to compare, I can also point out that western writers (in games) are also convoluted in their own terms, either mostly woke, leftists or brainwashed feminists that intend on destroying established franchise like SW, MCL or inserting ideologies inside the game that has white males in them.
While, of course, they can make a good story and character development, instead those people prefer to use their feelings and ideologies, rules, terms, whatever types of consent must conform that the main characters must be females, black, or gay and represent minorities, etc. Yeah, because they must be "represented" just because, right?
And the final product is a hodgepodge jumbled garbage that deviates from its intended, original story.

 

[Airell]

No. Just don't do anything outside the guidelines.

 

[Blaspheme]

I agree that Patreon isn’t a great way to remunerate devs for unfinished games. People being what they are, the temptation is too great to take the money when people are subscribing, then switch to the next project when subscription are decreasing. It’s pretty common, in adult gaming or on Steam. It really hurts the industry, because when you’ve been fooled several times, you just look for a way to play the game without paying and perhaps won’t pay for a game ever again.

I do use Patreon for content creator who release relatively small projects monthly, like Virt-a-mate scenes or mods.

 

[Donjoe81]

No Money = No Game? what the fuck are you smoking? Games without any funding do exist. Is this fool a dev trying to decive others? Because you can for example look up plenty of examples of games without any funding needed. There's even devs like Lord Voldy who make games without any funding

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Sure I give you that, but not everbody can. I don´t mean in order to make a game you need to crowdfund it, but not everybody has the money and therefore needs to crowdfund their games. Shouldn´t be so hard to understand or is it?

 

[danarchist_lewd]

No Money = No Game? what the fuck are you smoking? Games without any funding do exist. Is this fool a dev trying to decive others? Because you can for example look up plenty of examples of games without any funding needed. There's even devs like Lord Voldy who make games without any funding

You must be registered to see the links

I think the point of the money convo is that devs need to be able to support themselves to develop a game. If they want to work on a game full time, they still need to have food, shelter, electricity. Otherwise they need a job and if they have a job, the amount of time they can devote to the project is gonna be minimal.

 

[PropaJack]

No Money = No Game? what the fuck are you smoking? Games without any funding do exist. Is this fool a dev trying to decive others? Because you can for example look up plenty of examples of games without any funding needed. There's even devs like Lord Voldy who make games without any funding

You must be registered to see the links

nope. every game needs money. but some people don't need external money. let's imagine the simplest game, a VN 3dCGI renpy blablabla.
you need a good graphic card to render. you need ram. and, most important, you need time. if you work 8 hours a day and don't have a good PC, you can't make a game, or you can, but you'll need years to make it, and will be ugly.
If you already have this without external money, good! but some people have the idea but not the money. so patreon save us!

 

[Eve de Rothchild]

The Asian scene is the poorest in terms of writing and character development. It goes for the adult gaming scene at the opposite of what happen for the comics scene, Asian are far behind in terms of final quality.
Oh, of course, the dialogs themselves are generally better than half of what you can find on the Western scene, but it's a small parts of the "writing". In Asian games, the characters are way more stereotypical than on the Western scene, and they rarely evolve ; what a character is at the start of the game, is what she'll be at the end of it. In a way, this tell a lot about the cultural difference ; when it come to seduction, the mind matters more than the appearance.
As for the stories themselves, they also are purely stereotypical, focusing on a single point and never going outside of clearly defined and perfectly cleared paths. Stories that don't fully rely around the characters are rare on the Asian scene. When it's a male protagonist VN, you know that the whole story will be about learning more about the girl. And when it's a female protagonist VN, the story will be about her learning to accept her place in this world ; a place that is generally nothing else than being a sex tool. This while, on Western scene, stories are generally something that happen in the background. Even when the VN focus more on the characters themselves, you'll witness their journey through the events of the world, seeing how it affect them and make them evolve.

I only agre with you if you are only talking about the adult games and "comics". I read allot of Asian works and novels/manga/manhwa and for sure they are allot better than the mainstream work. I can list 5 Asian comics that supres all Dc/Marvel/Disney writing "skills" and ever better than shows like game of thrones.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I only agre with you if you are only talking about the adult games and "comics".

I was mostly thinking about the adult gaming scene but, to some extend, it also apply to comics.

I can list 5 Asian comics that supres all Dc/Marvel/Disney writing "skills" [...]

If for you comics are limited to the US' production and the Asian's one, you are missing a lot of things.
The European production is far to be limited to Herge and Goscinny/Uderzo. Edgar P. Jacobs' Blake and Mortimer series (at least the original, I like less the reboot after Jabobs' death), among many others, is an amazing piece of writing and drawing. The drawing is less dynamics than Manga, but as detailed, when not more, with more delicacy.
And for the adult comics scene, Erich Von Götha, Paolo Serpieri, Millo Manara or Giovanna Casatto, to only names few, have created many master works.
After, it's also a question of personal taste. One is not better, nor worse, because he prefer a style (narrative, drawing, or 'gaming') to another.


This being said, I wonder to what extend there isn't a correlation between what comics scene you grown with, and the way you are handling the adult game you're working on. I haven't checked, it's just a thought that popped in my mind, but as far as I know the creators who put the most efforts into their art and writing seem to all be Europeans on their thirty or older, and therefore mostly grown with the European comics scene.

 

[Eve de Rothchild]

I was mostly thinking about the adult gaming scene but, to some extend, it also apply to comics.




If for you comics are limited to the US' production and the Asian's one, you are missing a lot of things.
The European production is far to be limited to Herge and Goscinny/Uderzo. Edgar P. Jacobs' Blake and Mortimer series (at least the original, I like less the reboot after Jabobs' death), among many others, is an amazing piece of writing and drawing. The drawing is less dynamics than Manga, but as detailed, when not more, with more delicacy.
And for the adult comics scene, Erich Von Götha, Paolo Serpieri, Millo Manara or Giovanna Casatto, to only names few, have created many master works.
After, it's also a question of personal taste. One is not better, nor worse, because he prefer a style (narrative, drawing, or 'gaming') to another.


This being said, I wonder to what extend there isn't a correlation between what comics scene you grown with, and the way you are handling the adult game you're working on. I haven't checked, it's just a thought that popped in my mind, but as far as I know the creators who put the most efforts into their art and writing seem to all be Europeans on their thirty or older, and therefore mostly grown with the European comics scene.

You have a good point. I never touched any European comics my experiences has with US' and Asian (japonese, chinise, korean stuff).

Yes, the best Female Protagonist (in adult game) has from the west artist nothing from japonese one(the past two years i has playing only Female Protagonist games so if exist a japonse game with good FL i dont ever played)

I also agre with you about the japonese creators just follow the same writing narrative with poor story telling for exemple:
Female Protagonist archetype
Dumb/"innocent"
got tricked
after the first sex fall for it and turn into a succubus
Clear no personality
Male Protagonist archetype
Weak/dumb
always the plot is or have a girlfriend that cuck him or he having a harem
Poor background or history/isekai(yes i hate isekai, the majority of this are all poorwritten)
And for a end all characters don't get any development.

 

[Echoesinthedarkness]

Not everyone is like you, you know ?




Have you never noticed the main difference between the fully pre-rendered CGs and those relying on sprites ?

And, no, I don't talk about the 2D/3D difference, because there's Western creators, that use Patreon and 3D, that also rely on sprites for their games. I'm talking about the camera angle.
Fully rendered CGs permit to play with the camera, like one would do for a movie or even a comic. This add a depth to the visual part of the game, what permit to carry more information and add dynamism to the story. Something that is rare on the Asian scene, because drawing fully scenes take way more times than fully rendering 3D scenes.




The Asian scene is the poorest in terms of writing and character development. It goes for the adult gaming scene at the opposite of what happen for the comics scene, Asian are far behind in terms of final quality.
Oh, of course, the dialogs themselves are generally better than half of what you can find on the Western scene, but it's a small parts of the "writing". In Asian games, the characters are way more stereotypical than on the Western scene, and they rarely evolve ; what a character is at the start of the game, is what she'll be at the end of it. In a way, this tell a lot about the cultural difference ; when it come to seduction, the mind matters more than the appearance.
As for the stories themselves, they also are purely stereotypical, focusing on a single point and never going outside of clearly defined and perfectly cleared paths. Stories that don't fully rely around the characters are rare on the Asian scene. When it's a male protagonist VN, you know that the whole story will be about learning more about the girl. And when it's a female protagonist VN, the story will be about her learning to accept her place in this world ; a place that is generally nothing else than being a sex tool. This while, on Western scene, stories are generally something that happen in the background. Even when the VN focus more on the characters themselves, you'll witness their journey through the events of the world, seeing how it affect them and make them evolve.

What doesn't mean that one is better than the other. It's just that they are radically different in their approach, and are addressing different kind of public.




No, you are an idiot, because you limits the adult gaming scene to Visual Novels, and are totally forgetting the "visual" parts, that still make half of the name. You discard it as if it was something insignificant while, at the opposite, it's a factor as important as the writing itself.

Once again, the fact that not everyone is able to do it right doesn't change the reality behind the Visual Novel concept, a VN rely on the famous "show, don't tell".
The goal is to write as less as possible, letting the CGs carry a part of the information. And it's not something that can be done with sprites, because they'll never have the accuracy needed to carry effective information. Seeing a character smiling or frowning is not telling much more than a generic mood. This while goodly chosen camera angle and character pose while tell you a whole story in just one render. Then, you'll not need the annoying and stupid "I think that she's lying" MC's internal thought, by example, everything is already shown by the CG in front of the player.

This once again go back to the main difference, the targeted public. The Asian scene address players who don't want to think, with a predictable story without twist or mystery, and being mouth fed every significant information. This while the Western scene address a public more mature, where you need to use a part of your brain in order to understand and appreciate what you are witnessing.
It's not only in its making process that Western VN need more times, but also in while you're playing them. You don't just have to read the text and pass to the next line, you need to look at the CGS and weight what you just red accordingly to what you are seeing ; you need to think what, I agree, don't mix well with your hand being furiously jerking your brain.




I'll take "How to tell that I'm below the legal age to be on this site".

ehm.. guys, I would like to report a murder

 

[BigotedHypocriteDeveloper]

You have a good point. I never touched any European comics my experiences has with US' and Asian (japonese, chinise, korean stuff).

Yes, the best Female Protagonist (in adult game) has from the west artist nothing from japonese one(the past two years i has playing only Female Protagonist games so if exist a japonse game with good FL i dont ever played)

I also agre with you about the japonese creators just follow the same writing narrative with poor story telling for exemple:
Female Protagonist archetype
Dumb/"innocent"
got tricked
after the first sex fall for it and turn into a succubus
Clear no personality
Male Protagonist archetype
Weak/dumb
always the plot is or have a girlfriend that cuck him or he having a harem
Poor background or history/isekai(yes i hate isekai, the majority of this are all poorwritten)
And for a end all characters don't get any development.

Well, you haven't played or delved much then. There are many out great Japanese manga/games that have at least a good female protagonist. Find those on "Josei" or "Shoujo" genres. Don't look for them in shonen/seinen categories. Often, the yaoi/shounen-ai has better female archetypes.
For example, Clamps' works.
Or many bishounen Japanese games
If you want a good storytelling, find Japanese games that are MARKETED TOWARDS females NOT males. Different to Western counterparts, in Japan, there is a distinct differences between demographics towards females and males.
---
I observe that in the west, the lines are being blurred and more and more entertainment will gravitate towards political/gender wars/or any -ism or ideologues because they occupy most of the media, government, and educational institutions in the west.

 

[Monstrous Moonshine]

No Money = No Game? what the fuck are you smoking? Games without any funding do exist. Is this fool a dev trying to decive others? Because you can for example look up plenty of examples of games without any funding needed. There's even devs like Lord Voldy who make games without any funding

You must be registered to see the links

Probably because they already have more than enough income, duh? But many people don't, many people want to be paid for the time they sink into a project, or to make a career out of it. In which case, they require funding. Not exactly the greatest argument, I gotta say. Yikes.

 

[Deleted member 5412613]

Why can't we just buy finished products instead of monthly subscription model?
This is really bad.

We always have unfinished trashes and that's all.

I admit that when I discovered this world of AVN games, I didn't understand it either. I was like, "Why doesn't he finish the game and release it normally?" Why do I have to wait 6 months for an update? "Why do I have to pay for something every month?" Do you know when I understood reality? Since I started working on my own project...

1. It is financially demanding. Not every developer is able to model everything, and some things simply have to be bought. If someone takes it really seriously and cares about what they create, they invest money in hardware as well. I think that paying someone €3 a month, which you also support, is not a problem. We live in a time when the 3€ has almost no value anymore, and if it helps a developer, then why not? When someone sits at a computer for 15 hours a day like me and dedicates himself to it, he deserves it (I'm not saying I deserve it, but you get the point).

2. I can't imagine how long he would have been creating the game if he wanted to complete it and then release it. When I imagine that for 5 months I made 700 images and 16 animations that have a total of over 5600 frames, how long would it take someone to make a game that has at least 10 chapters and a ton of animations? And I'm not just talking about myself: games like DIK have 5000 images for one chapter...

Can you imagine how much time he would have spent sitting at his computer for free creating that game? I'm not saying that these games are about money, although when I look at some games, I feel that those people really do it just for money. But I personally think that if the developer takes it seriously and tries to do it well, he has the right to be financially rewarded.

 

[Müptezel Emo]

I admit that when I discovered this world of AVN games, I didn't understand it either. I was like, "Why doesn't he finish the game and release it normally?" Why do I have to wait 6 months for an update? "Why do I have to pay for something every month?" Do you know when I understood reality? Since I started working on my own project...

1. It is financially demanding. Not every developer is able to model everything, and some things simply have to be bought. If someone takes it really seriously and cares about what they create, they invest money in hardware as well. I think that paying someone €3 a month, which you also support, is not a problem. We live in a time when the 3€ has almost no value anymore, and if it helps a developer, then why not? When someone sits at a computer for 15 hours a day like me and dedicates himself to it, he deserves it (I'm not saying I deserve it, but you get the point).

2. I can't imagine how long he would have been creating the game if he wanted to complete it and then release it. When I imagine that for 5 months I made 700 images and 16 animations that have a total of over 5600 frames, how long would it take someone to make a game that has at least 10 chapters and a ton of animations? And I'm not just talking about myself: games like DIK have 5000 images for one chapter...

Can you imagine how much time he would have spent sitting at his computer for free creating that game? I'm not saying that these games are about money, although when I look at some games, I feel that those people really do it just for money. But I personally think that if the developer takes it seriously and tries to do it well, he has the right to be financially rewarded.

Spoiler: Bruh

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[Deleted member 5412613]

Spoiler: Bruh

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And what's the point?

Your comment was totally primitive, and you wrote it condescendingly as if someone was dependent on your money, while no one in that post was interested in money. And if what you wrote was true, then games like Summer's Gone or Leap of Faith would not have existed long ago, while they are successful games even without people like you.

 

[Monstrous Moonshine]

It seems that many of you have missed the point. But what can one expect from you retarded sheep.

Whoa, such a cogent rebuttal! It's quite clear you've been thoroughly trounced, show some sportsmanship and bow out, bud. What a clown.

 

[Deleted member 5412613]

View attachment 2312650

I have two people blocked on this site, I know which one you are talking too and your life will be significantly better if you just block their posts. Let them fail on their own

You are right. I thought about blocking him, but I don't like all the nonsense he wrote here, so I wanted to respond to it. If he talks so much and thinks he knows everything, has seen everything, and understands everything, then let him prove that his writing is justified. Although I personally think that a person like him is happy if he even knows how to turn on a computer... But I still feel sorry for him... He's obviously not doing very well in life, so he's taking it out on people on the internet.