Patreon is the worst enemy of all adult game players

[morphnet]

You are thinking that because a game existed and it was online that it fit the GaaS model. This isn't the case. MMORPGs were the forerunners of the model and they did start the explosion, but as I said, it wasn't until WoW that it really picked up steam. But then it kept picking up steam.

Except offline games like the sims 1 and others existed at that time too, as I said I'm using known easy reference games. The sims 1 received 7 expansions between 2000 livin large and 2003 makin magic, the core game got 9 additions / versions between 2000 and 2005. That is just one example along side the mmo's.

The main point of the statement is that between WoW's first expansion Burning Crusade in 2007 (when it REALLY hit the high numbers of subscribers) and the mobile wave of apps is when the explosion of GaaS games really started.

and as I pointed out an explosion is not the start, it can only happen when there is a accepted standard already.

Also none of this moves us closer to the topic which is patreon and complete games model or release updates model and their connection.

 

[tanstaafl]

Also none of this moves us closer to the topic which is patreon and complete games model or release updates model and their connection.

The only connection to the model was that I stated earlier that Patreon exacerbates the situation by normalizing certain expectations for people. I didn't focus on the statement, I just made it. It was responses to it that got this part of the conversation going.

 

[Dryme]

Haram + cursed

 

[morphnet]

The only connection to the model was that I stated earlier that Patreon exacerbates the situation by normalizing certain expectations for people. I didn't focus on the statement, I just made it. It was responses to it that got this part of the conversation going.

True so putting all else aside I think we can all agree that patreon is not the worst enemy of all adult game players and chalk the rest up to good debate practice

 

[tanstaafl]

True so putting all else aside I think we can all agree that patreon is not the worst enemy of all adult game players and chalk the rest up to good debate practice

True enough, lol.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Side note: Hexen was fun as fuck.

This and Baldur Gates, the two games that led my wife to be a more hardcore gamer than me...

 

[tanstaafl]

This and Baldur Gates, the two games that led my wife to be a more hardcore gamer than me...

Dude, Baldur's Gate was so many people's gateway game. Worth it.

 

[peterppp]

Have you looked at the state of Steam Indie Games?
Patreon is paradise compared to that.
And it's pretty much inevitable that Indie Devs will migrate to Patreon, porn or no porn.
Once that happens you will see what real competition is.

how is patreon paradise compared to steam?

adult game devs generally make more money on steam than on patreon (if they are on both). for this reason, more and more adult game devs that were previously only on patreon are now also releasing on steam. so sfw indie devs "migrating" to patreon is not a problem for them.

why "migrate" to patreon when you can be on both patreon and steam? and why would sfw indie devs earn more on patreon than on steam when adult devs dont?

lastly, sfw indie devs do only marginally compete with adult devs since it's a fairly different market. to exaggerate, it's like saying it's gonna be harder competition for adult game devs because musicians will migrate to patreon. sure, people dont have unlimited money to spend, but that's about the extent of the competition

 

[DuniX]

how is patreon paradise compared to steam?

Because it actually Costs Money to make a game.
And even if by some miracle that you manage to release a game it's likely to make jack shit.
This is spite of having substantial investments in terms of graphical assets and maybe even have a team behind you.
You could lose all that investment.

With Patreon you can also launder graphical assets with Koikatsu, Honey Select, Daz or AI CG.

adult game devs generally make more money on steam than on patreon (if they are on both). for this reason, more and more adult game devs that were previously only on patreon are now also releasing on steam. so sfw indie devs "migrating" to patreon is not a problem for them.

That's only if their projects have some measure of completeness to release on Steam or were already successful on patreon and have the budget to release in a reasonably finished state.
But nobody is funding their half baked alphas on Steam.

lastly, sfw indie devs do only marginally compete with adult devs since it's a fairly different market. to exaggerate, it's like saying it's gonna be harder competition for adult game devs because musicians will migrate to patreon.

There is nothing stopping an Indie Developer adding some vanilla porn to their game.
This is nothing new, this is what happened to Japanese Games, there are plenty of RPGs, Strategy Games, Puzzle Games with their equivalent of Indie Studios that are great and got started as Eroge series.
Unlike the bunch of amateurs we have here they actually know how to make Gameplay, write Stories and Balance their Fucking Budget. I can't imagine why you would think when they come they wouldn't BTFO their competition.

Indie Games are in a bad place, they aren't making any money so they are looking for alternative solutions.
You are better of building a brand and presence on Youtube with development logs and whatnot then you are releasing and succeeding on Steam. Or add porn and compete directly.
It's really a simple equation, if releasing a game on Steam does not pay off then you can only get more support from the audience you do have through things like Patreon.

 

[peterppp]

Because it actually Costs Money to make a game.
And even if by some miracle that you manage to release a game it's likely to make jack shit.
This is spite of having substantial investments in terms of graphical assets and maybe even have a team behind you.
You could lose all that investment.

With Patreon you can also launder graphical assets with Koikatsu, Honey Select, Daz or AI CG.


That's only if their projects have some measure of completeness to release on Steam or were already successful on patreon and have the budget to release in a reasonably finished state.
But nobody is funding their half baked alphas on Steam.


There is nothing stopping an Indie Developer adding some vanilla porn to their game.
This is nothing new, this is what happened to Japanese Games, there are plenty of RPGs, Strategy Games, Puzzle Games with their equivalent of Indie Studios that are great and got started as Eroge series.

Indie Games are in a bad place, they aren't making any money so there are looking for alternative solutions.
You are better of building a brand and presence on Youtube with development logs and whatnot then you are releasing and succeeding on Steam.
It's really a simple equation, if releasing a game on Steam does not pay off then you can only get more support from the audience you do have.

wrong. adult game devs release early access on steam similar to on patreon. you dont wanna release a v0.0001, which steam will likely reject anyway, but once you have a decent amount, you can release it to early access, and adult devs do that.

you also dont need a succesful patreon since you generally make much more on steam and it only costs $100 bucks to register your game. the exception is if you have pirated your assets, like daz assets, and need to buy them to not get in trouble on steam. that can potentially cost more than you will make if you have expensive assets and dont do well on steam. but that's more the exception than the rule.

 

[anne O'nymous]

how is patreon paradise compared to steam?

adult game devs generally make more money on steam than on patreon (if they are on both).

In 2022, Patreon did

You must be registered to see the links

, and it appear that in average Patreon represent only 41% of a creator income. It obviously vary depending on the category you're on; by example game creators can't apply to coaching. But it being an average smoother those differences.
I'm too lazy to search, but there's many NSFW game creators who talked about this, and globally between 60% and 33% of their earning come from Patreon. On what side one is depending on his game popularity (the more popular it is, the higher are the chance that people get it from itch.io or Steam by example) and the creator's popularity (the more (s)he's know, the higher he'll be asked for commissions).

why "migrate" to patreon when you can be on both patreon and steam? and why would sfw indie devs earn more on patreon than on steam when adult devs dont?

Basic one dimension reasoning ("SFW have a bigger public, bigger public mean more money") that rely on a reverse of the thinker core belief ("people hate Patreon because it's nothing but a scam"->"all creators on Patreon are scammer") that is extended ( "All scammers want to be on Patreon") then filtered by the thinker delusion ("I love Steam, so it's totally impossible for scammers to be there").
Kids, do not reproduce this at home, it's a thinking process that should be left to professionals with years of experience in "facts and common sense doesn't matters".

lastly, sfw indie devs do only marginally compete with adult devs since it's a fairly different market.

Anyway the "competition" between SFW and NSFW game creators is not something new at all.

There's near to 3 times more SFW game creators on Patreon (

You must be registered to see the links

) than there's NSFW game creators (

You must be registered to see the links

). It have always been like this. Globally the demographic for the twos evolve in parallel.
The oldest SFW game creator date from may 2013, while the oldest NSFW one date from June 2013. And if you split the list in half, there as many SFW game creators that were on Patreon before June 2021 that after that date, while for NSFW game creators it's Nov 2021.
The last point is interesting, because it's only mid 2016 that Patreon achieved to

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, by securing a deal with Payement processors for them to handle their transactions. Yet it clearly wasn't such important issue for NSFW game creators, it just made Patreon more attractive for them after that date.

But well, is it surprising that DuniX drawn a theory without checking the facts first?

 

[DuniX]

But well, is it surprising that DuniX drawn a theory without checking the facts first?

Your analysis is moot when you don't account to what is happening with Steam Games.
That is the vector you should look at.
Yes obviously all kinds of projects have always existed on Patreon.

 

[TheMagicalGurl]

I dont deserve compensation for labor I have done. Work is meant to be free. Individuals who value my labor dont deserve a safe and secure location to compensate me for my labor that they find value in.

nope. Not at all. I should be paid in thank yous and pixie dust and unicorn farts. Only the best things!

 

[morphnet]

I dont deserve compensation for labor I have done. Work is meant to be free. Individuals who value my labor dont deserve a safe and secure location to compensate me for my labor that they find value in.

nope. Not at all. I should be paid in thank yous and pixie dust and unicorn farts. Only the best things!

A lot of these guys think dev's should be paid with complaints, insults, harassment and abuse, how dare you bring truth, facts and logic into this!

 

[anne O'nymous]

I dont deserve compensation for labor I have done. Work is meant to be free. Individuals who value my labor dont deserve a safe and secure location to compensate me for my labor that they find value in.

nope. Not at all. I should be paid in thank yous and pixie dust and unicorn farts. Only the best things!

 

[TheMagicalGurl]

View attachment 4654908

Crypto is more tangible than "Exposure"...

 

[peterppp]

In 2022, Patreon did

You must be registered to see the links

, and it appear that in average Patreon represent only 41% of a creator income. It obviously vary depending on the category you're on; by example game creators can't apply to coaching. But it being an average smoother those differences.
I'm too lazy to search, but there's many NSFW game creators who talked about this, and globally between 60% and 33% of their earning come from Patreon. On what side one is depending on his game popularity (the more popular it is, the higher are the chance that people get it from itch.io or Steam by example) and the creator's popularity (the more (s)he's know, the higher he'll be asked for commissions).

yeah but if you only ask adult game devs who are on steam, which far from everyone is (and many dont have the commercial rights to be, using illusion games assets for instance), probably 80-90% of your earnings from steam is normal then.

But well, is it surprising that DuniX drawn a theory without checking the facts first?

nope

 

[anne O'nymous]

yeah but if you only ask adult game devs who are on steam, which far from everyone is (and many dont have the commercial rights to be, using illusion games assets for instance), probably 80-90% of your earnings from steam is normal then.

It depend, the more you are successful on Patreon, the lower will be the part comming from Steam; will, obviously, still being the majority of your earning.

A not successful creator who would earn US$ 100/month on Patreon can easily sell more than 10 games at US$ 10 each month on Steam; at least on average at the end of the year. It suffice that 600 persons cross his game and think that, for this price it worse it, for him to have 80% of his income that come from Steam.
Strictly speaking, one can assume that the same apply for a creator that would earn US$ 1000/month. 6,000 Steam users buying his game don't seem impossible from a platform with 132 millions active members each month. But there's a mechanical limit due to the fact that Patreon and Steam don't attract the same population.
Patreon users, at least when it come to adult games, are recurrent players who want a big part of their games to have lewd. This while Steam users are more casual when it come to adult games. Even if they are hardcore players, globally adult games are just a distraction for them, something they'll play once in a while to change their mind. There's obviously an intersection between the two populations, but it's something marginal.
And it's where the limit apply. The higher will be your earning on Patreon, the harder it will be to find enough persons to buy your game on Steam in order for those earning to be a large majority of your income. The highest know Patreon income for an adult game creator is

You must be registered to see the links

with US$ 88,524/month. I don't know if his game is on Steam or not, but it would need around 44,000 persons who buy it still at US$ 10) each year to reach the 80% earing comming from Steam. Something that is more difficult to reach when you mostly face pure casual adult games players.
It's not impossible, there's some really sucessful adult games on Steam, but proportionally it's even more exceptional than being successful on Patreon.

What, obviously, doesn't mean that Steam doesn't, or wouldn't for those who don't have their game there, represent a big part of the earning even for Patreon successful creators. It's just that, proportionally, the more you earn on Patreon, the lower will be the Steam part in your global income.

 

[peterppp]

It depend, the more you are successful on Patreon, the lower will be the part comming from Steam; will, obviously, still being the majority of your earning.

A not successful creator who would earn US$ 100/month on Patreon can easily sell more than 10 games at US$ 10 each month on Steam; at least on average at the end of the year. It suffice that 600 persons cross his game and think that, for this price it worse it, for him to have 80% of his income that come from Steam.
Strictly speaking, one can assume that the same apply for a creator that would earn US$ 1000/month. 6,000 Steam users buying his game don't seem impossible from a platform with 132 millions active members each month. But there's a mechanical limit due to the fact that Patreon and Steam don't attract the same population.
Patreon users, at least when it come to adult games, are recurrent players who want a big part of their games to have lewd. This while Steam users are more casual when it come to adult games. Even if they are hardcore players, globally adult games are just a distraction for them, something they'll play once in a while to change their mind. There's obviously an intersection between the two populations, but it's something marginal.
And it's where the limit apply. The higher will be your earning on Patreon, the harder it will be to find enough persons to buy your game on Steam in order for those earning to be a large majority of your income. The highest know Patreon income for an adult game creator is

You must be registered to see the links

with US$ 88,524/month. I don't know if his game is on Steam or not, but it would need around 44,000 persons who buy it still at US$ 10) each year to reach the 80% earing comming from Steam. Something that is more difficult to reach when you mostly face pure casual adult games players.
It's not impossible, there's some really sucessful adult games on Steam, but proportionally it's even more exceptional than being successful on Patreon.

What, obviously, doesn't mean that Steam doesn't, or wouldn't for those who don't have their game there, represent a big part of the earning even for Patreon successful creators. It's just that, proportionally, the more you earn on Patreon, the lower will be the Steam part in your global income.

that may be true, generally speaking. however, steam is huge and so i'm not sure the difference will be significant between the smaller and bigger devs. take oppaiman as an example. granted, freshwomen is one of the exceptionally successful adult games on steam, but still it shows that the numbers you can get on steam can dwarf your patreon earnings even with a very successful patreon.

so oppaiman released freshwomen on steam in aug 19 2022. then in jan 12 2024 he said he had sold 1 million copies of freshwomen on steam

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meanwhile, during that period, about 17 months, he made somewhere around $340k on patreon. this is just me at a glance roughly estimating an average of $20k per 17 months. the real earnings shouldn't be too far off.

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freshwoman is currently sold for about €8 on a sale but normally €13. but lets go low and say $8 for all 1000k units sold.

340k compared to 8000k is 4%. so ~95% earnings on steam compared to patreon during that period.
even if we go 500k against 5000k, that's still 90%

for someone with a $100 patreon ($1200/year), that would mean $12k to $24k per year on steam. that's probably more than most will do (but some may do that and even more).

so i'd say if we remove the extremes - very low patreon earnings because the game is just bad and may not even make back the cost of assets, and $50k+/month patreon devs where even steam's huge audience may not be huge enough - i don't think there is necessarily any significant difference between what you earn in % on patreon and steam for small and big patreon devs.

 

[HUMMREW]

I'm making one. It's hard to do it without support. To make a good game, you need time and people. We also need to survive. I want to do this full-time, but how I'll do it without the support? How I'll buy a better PC or pay someone to help me? It's a necessity for the indies...

I am ready to sign under every word of it.