Patreon is the worst enemy of all adult game players

[anne O'nymous]

You can posture all you want but people can make their own judgements on who they think is in the right.

Well, "I am talking about the AVNs, the Topic of this fucking Thread" did you said, well, let's see...


Title of the thread: "Patreon is the worst enemy of all adult game players"

Hmm, I see no mention of AVNs here. But, well, it's just the title, perhaps that the thread opening is more explicit:
"Why can't we just buy finished products instead of monthly subscription model?
This is really bad.

We always have unfinished trashes and that's all."

Oh, well, there's no mention of AVNs here too.

I don't know if you're posting in the wrong thread, or if you lack the most basic reading abilities and totally misunderstood this thread's topic, but there's nothing that can make "people" think that you're the one who's right.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I hate being wrong and then correcting myself in a few posts but then people keep bringing up that bit where I was wrong.

There's no interest to bring the parts where you're right, people risk to understand that I'm not the only smart guy around there

 

[morphnet]

Daz3D is a posing program. Using morphs doesn’t really make it a "design" program. And, most western adult game developers use it for graphic creation.

It is also used to setup background, interiors, exteriors, props etc. Simplifying it down to a simple posing program is incorrect.

Honey Select and Koikatsu are games, and again, they are used by many western adult game developers to create their graphics. I’m not forcing anyone to use them; it’s simply how they mostly create graphics.

Unless tools like [Daz3D, Honey Select, Koikatsu, Ren'Py, and RPGM] improve

Expecting a games company to "improve" a part of their game so others can use it in a way never intended is ridiculous.

Ren'Py is just a visual novel engine and not that capable or comfy if you compare with more general use game engines. Good for devs who don't want to learn code and create simple visual novels though, surely you can do a few more tricks more python knowledge.

Ren'Py is just a visual novel engine and isn’t as capable or comfortable compared to more general-purpose game engines. It’s great for developers who don’t want to learn coding and want to create simple visual novels. Of course, with more Python knowledge, you can do a few extra things. But it's just that.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with the topic.

Judging by your definition and mine of these games/programs, I’m not the one mixing up what’s used for what. These are the programs used by western adult game developers.

Then where are all the programs used to make sprites? where is HS or the programs used in making 2d art?

and again NONE of this has anything to do with the topic of complete vs monthly subscription model or patreons role.

Based on your previous post, it seems you're good at taking screenshots—just take a screenshot of the download section on the last page, and let’s analyze what they are using for their creations. Or just you do that by your own, I am bored.

in case you missed it AGAIN

and again NONE of this has anything to do with the topic of complete vs monthly subscription model or patreons role.

 

[morphnet]

I hate being wrong and then correcting myself in a few posts but then people keep bringing up that bit where I was wrong.

I've done this to you in a couple of threads and I did it to you in this one. I'm 100% at fault here and I should have slowed down and read through everything before replying. I'm sorry and promise to try not do it in the future.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Daz3D is a posing program.

Daz Studio is a composing and rendering software.

Using morphs and posing figures is only one small part of what it can do.

You can fully edit the surface to change it's result, making what was wood looks like metal by example. You can (part manually) deform meshes. You can create then combine primitive to build new structures. And those are just three of the most used (but not used enough I agree) capabilities offered by Daz Studio.

Ren'Py is just a visual novel engine and isn’t as capable or comfortable compared to more general-purpose game engines. It’s great for developers who don’t want to learn coding and want to create simple visual novels. Of course, with more Python knowledge, you can do a few extra things. But it's just that.

Ah, if only Ren'Py was able to use four opaque static images, and turn them into a transparent hologram with randomized deformation effect, all this in real time...

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Or if it was able to send one back to the 80's demo scene, in real time

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But let's be honest, those are actually just tricks. What people want is for it to be able to handle a RPG maker-like map system, with real time path computation...

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Or to be able to have a dress up system.

These are the programs used by western adult game developers.

Winterfire isn't a western developer, ICSTOR never made RPG Maker games, Lurking Hedgehog haven't switched from 3D to 2D, and so on.

[...] just take a screenshot of the download section on the last page, and let’s analyze what they are using for their creations. Or just you do that by your own, I am bored.

There's 20.990 games available, among then 13.190 aren't made with Ren'Py, while there's 13.193 don't rely on 3D CGs. And there's only 5.246 games made with Ren'Py and relying on 3D CGs.

I would have swore that there were more than 25% games coming from Western developers. Or perhaps is it that you just said bullshit, in hope that no one would notice it...

 

[thatisthecase]

The Asian scene address players who don't want to think, with a predictable story without twist or mystery, and being mouth fed every significant information.

Please look at the top VNDB VNs like White Album 2 or Subahibi and tell me the players don't need to think to understand
>bbut these game are in the minority
yes but they existed. They were games with great plot and characters that were once released in a complete state

Also I wonder how many of these so called "western" developers are actually Russian, Indian and Southeast Asian

 

[ezzy333]

Daz Studio is a composing and rendering software.

Using morphs and posing figures is only one small part of what it can do.

You can fully edit the surface to change it's result, making what was wood looks like metal by example. You can (part manually) deform meshes. You can create then combine primitive to build new structures. And those are just three of the most used (but not used enough I agree) capabilities offered by Daz Studio.

Daz3D is a posing program. And not a good one either. "B-but Daz3D can combine primite meshs and edit materials.".
Sure, but it's not make it a modelling or texturing program.

Ah, if only Ren'Py was able to use four opaque static images, and turn them into a transparent hologram with randomized deformation effect, all this in real time...

Yes, these are just a few tricks. Not even worth to call it a game engine, which is not called that way even by

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. Just a "visual novel engine".

There's 20.990 games available, among then 13.190 aren't made with Ren'Py, while there's 13.193 don't rely on 3D CGs. And there's only 5.246 games made with Ren'Py and relying on 3D CGs.

I would have swore that there were more than 25% games coming from Western developers. Or perhaps is it that you just said bullshit, in hope that no one would notice it...

And? They are still mostly using either Ren'Py or RPGM.

Without [Daz3D, Honey Select, Koikatsu, Ren'Py, and RPGM], there would be no western adult games except for those weird Flash games.

Without Patreon, things probably wouldn’t change much. We would still see five-minute demos or "incredible" remakes of games that remain unfinished even after eight years of development, whether on Steam Early Access or Itch.io.

 

[ezzy333]

The Asian scene is the poorest in terms of writing and character development. It goes for the adult gaming scene at the opposite of what happen for the comics scene, Asian are far behind in terms of final quality.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

Also I wonder how many of these so called "western" developers are actually Russian, Indian and Southeast Asian

I think the general rule is "QSP = Russian".

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

This also explains why western adult games are stagnating in quality. Unless tools like [Daz3D, Honey Select, Koikatsu, Ren'Py, and RPGM] improve or new tools, like AI, emerge—without diving into whether AI is good or bad—nothing will really change in terms of overall quality.

??? Is japanese adult industry not producing metric tons of visual novel and jrpg slop and basically nothing else? Isn't that stagnation? Did I miss something?

Insomnimaniac Games
QSP = margin of error.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Please look at [...]

Oh my fucking god, I forgot one "globally"...

Also I wonder how many of these so called "western" developers are actually Russian, Indian and Southeast Asian

Funny that there's no Australians in your list, because I know few of them...

 

[anne O'nymous]

[sorry for the double post]

Yes, these are just a few tricks.

Funny that you quoted the demo example, not the map or dress up system...

And? They are still mostly using either Ren'Py or RPGM.

Well, it's not the same that all using Ren'Py coupled to Daz and nothing else. But, unsurprisingly, I wasn't expecting something else coming from you.

 

[ezzy333]

Funny that you quoted the demo example, not the map or dress up system...

I just quoted that one to clean up the mess.

Anyway, it must feel like a peak for you when you can add an image inside an image or implement basic point-and-click mechanics.
But for others, anything beyond a visual novel with a few tricks requires real game engines like Unity or Unreal Engine.

And just in case any reasonable person is reading this—Ren'Py isn’t a bad visual novel engine. It’s just not a 'powerful' game engine. Not powerful, nor really a game engine.

Well, it's not the same that all using Ren'Py coupled to Daz and nothing else. But, unsurprisingly, I wasn't expecting something else coming from you.

Nitpicking is all you do, and I wasn’t expecting anything else from you.
Also, I don’t want to waste my time educating you, so move on if you can’t really add anything valuable to the discussion.

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[tanstaafl]

There are subscribers. For those subscriptions, they get certain benefits listed in the subscription tiers. As long as the developer meets those listed benefits, they have met expectations.

Subscriber benefits are largely not applicable to F95. There are quite a few games listed here with special notes from the devs along the lines of "We don't like our game being here, but we can't do anything about it...blah blah."

Just a side note.

 

[morphnet]

Daz3D is a posing program. And not a good one either. "B-but Daz3D can combine primite meshs and edit materials.".
Sure, but it's not make it a modelling or texturing program.

Daz Studio is a free 3D software suite for creating your own stunning 3D scenes that you can turn into high-resolution 3D images (renders) and animations. With over 3 million worldwide users and 30,000 free and premium 3D digital assets, Daz 3D helps users create 3D art with ease.

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Daz 3D software allows for various kinds of 3D content creation, such as sculpting, shading, backgrounds, and others such as:[21]

• Sculpting: Daz 3D Hexagon features include sculpted primitives and freehand modeling brushes, which allow users to sculpt detailed 3D models.
• Shading: Besides conventional 3D scenes, artistic, cartoon-like renders are also possible through Daz 3D's shaders.
• Characters: Daz Studio allows users to create highly configurable 3D character models either from scratch or by importing pre-made or self-created assets.
• Costumes: Using the software, users can also design 3D outfits that have realistic materials, rigging, and real-time movement simulations.
• Backgrounds: Daz 3D software can also be used to create 3D environments for use as backgrounds in 3D scenes.

Your opinion will never outweigh facts.

Yes, these are just a few tricks. Not even worth to call it a game engine, which is not called that way even by

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. Just a "visual novel engine".

Reading is an important skip

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"What is Ren'Py?
Ren'Py is a visual novel engine – used by thousands of creators from around the world – that helps you use words, images, and sounds to tell interactive stories that run on computers and mobile devices. These can be both visual novels and life simulation games. The easy to learn script language allows anyone to efficiently write large visual novels, while its Python scripting is enough for complex simulation games.

Ren'Py is open source and free for commercial use."

He clearly states he intended it to be used to make games as well as visual novels.

And? They are still mostly using either Ren'Py or RPGM.

and you are still COMPLETELY ignoring the topic. At this point you are just spewing dubious BS to stir the pot.

Also, I don’t want to waste my time educating you, so move on if you can’t really add anything valuable to the discussion.

IF ANYONE should "move on" it should be you, you've add nothing on topic, your opinions are not based in reality, you're posting half information / misleading quotes and clearly lack ANY understanding of the context, Oh and you jumped in here after us and have shared NOTHING of value.

But this is a PUBLIC thread so not gonna tell you to move on just keep reminding you, you've off-topic and out of context.

You're off-topic and out of content

 

[Count Morado]

Also I wonder how many of these so called "western" developers are actually Russian, Indian and Southeast Asian

Western is used to denote a difference from the publishing system of Southeast Asia games, like in Japan. It is not meant to denote the cultural or ethnic background of a developer.

Subscriber benefits are largely not applicable to F95. There are quite a few games listed here with special notes from the devs along the lines of "We don't like our game being here, but we can't do anything about it...blah blah."

Just a side note.

What does this have to do with my comment or the context of my comment?

The person was saying subscribers were customers. They are not, except in circumstances where a creator on Patreon has a store and is selling products through it.

As subscribers they aren't buying anything. Nothing. In exchange for their subscription, the creator may offer benefits, structured in tiers, as a show of gratitude for the subscriptions. Creators don't have to, but are encouraged to. Discord server access, special discord roles, voting on possible content, etc. Some offer access to in development content in the form of releases for subscribers to get a sneak peek.

Once they make a commitment to offer benefits, they are expected to fulfill. If they do not, subscribers may choose to stop subscribing or continue on with the knowledge they may never receive their benefits. The ball is in their court.

As for relevance for F95, this whole bitching about Patreon is irrelevant for F95 because we get shit pirated (or developers post here, directly).

But here the fuck we are.

 

[Wankyudo]

Old thread IKR, but if the other option is to start up yet another Patreon scam thread, which is worse?

both. both are bad. you quoted me on a two year old post on a topic that had been done to death on a subject that has already had multiple threads from the same type of entitled manbabies arguing the same fallacious points as to why they believe patreon creators should be held accountable in extra ways when they can already be held accountable by not giving them money.

welcome to the forums. this was a bad introduction.

 

[tanstaafl]

Western is used to denote a difference from the publishing system of Southeast Asia games, like in Japan. It is not meant to denote the cultural or ethnic background of a developer.

What does this have to do with my comment or the context of my comment?

The person was saying subscribers were customers. They are not, except in circumstances where a creator on Patreon has a store and is selling products through it.

Nothing per se other than expanding on the detail. And I feel it is very pertinent to point out that Patreon was not started to be a subscription service, but evolved to be that way as more and more creators became more software as a service oriented...if only because it is something that people should keep in mind when discussing it.

 

[thatisthecase]

Western is used to denote a difference from the publishing system of Southeast Asia games, like in Japan. It is not meant to denote the cultural or ethnic background of a developer.

The guy I quoted literally said Asian games have inferior writing (on average Japanese porn games probably do have inferior writing because there are so many RPG maker trash over there). He also said "In a way, this tell a lot about the cultural difference" so don't tell me this doesn't mean to denote cultural background of the devs.
I do hope he doesn't include someone like Bo Wei in "Western" category however.

 

[Count Morado]

Nothing per se other than expanding on the detail. And I feel it is very pertinent to point out that Patreon was not started to be a subscription service, but evolved to be that way as more and more creators became more software as a service oriented...if only because it is something that people should keep in mind when discussing it.

Sigh. For the third time in this thread, I'll post this:

At Patreon, our mission is to empower creators to live off their art by providing them with the tools and support they need to connect with their fans and build a sustainable income.​

While, in 2013, Patreon was founded with the idea that people would drop a tip into a creator's patreon account when new content was created, it quickly evolved so that their mission could be better realized. In 2015, it acquired Subbable, which was was subscription based service - where people could drop a tip either as a one-time donation or as a recurring system to show support for the accounts on its site. Patreon has been a subscription based system for a decade. At least 8,558 of the 8,658 adult game developers currently on Patreon started after it acquired Subbable (March 2015) which have barely a few thousands (of the million+) adult game subscribers.

Over 90%... dare I say, over 98%... of all the subscribers and creators in the adult game category only know Patreon in its current form as a subscription based service. There are still a few (can count on my hands and feet) adult game creators who do only receive their subscriptions per 'creation.'

That's like saying in a conversation about Coca Cola, that we should "keep in mind when discussing it" that it once had cocaine in it. The first 18 years of the 139 years it's been around... sure... but for the last 121 years? Nope and there is no one alive who ever drank Coca Cola when it did have cocaine.

The conversation is about the Patreon we all know and are familiar with - and 98%+ of this community is aware of. Not the first 22 months of its 142 months of existence.