Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[dartred]

Many NTR fans complain about the lack of NTR route and that NTR doesn't stick. They say how it's not true NTR because after your choices you are forced to go back the Vanilla route.

How does NTR scenes change how good the Harem side is? Can people tell me that have NTR off, have you guys enjoyed the game less?

 

[AlphaBit]

Many NTR fans complain about the lack of NTR route and that NTR doesn't stick. They say how it's not true NTR because after your choices you are forced to go back the Vanilla route.

How does NTR scenes change how good the Harem side is? Can people tell me that have NTR off, have you guys enjoyed the game less?

Idk if people are complaining about ntr much I certainly didn't see more than 3 to 4 complains about that here but I know for sure that this is the game with most ntr side projects and the game who inspired at least two if not more people to make their own ntr games. I mean how good a game needs to be with a certain tag to inspire other people to make their own games with that tag? I don't have to elaborate I guess. I have already said a few times that What? Why? Games next project imo with respect to current situation would be a fully fledged ntr game despite some saying that it will be a non ntr harem game. Which I find unrealistic/unbelievable considering how he himself admit that most of his earnings come from ntr fans and how good he is at presenting ntr genre, that many have expressed.

How does NTR scenes change how good the Harem side is? Can people tell me that have NTR off, have you guys enjoyed the game less?

I think the question should be "how much they enjoyed the harem side of this game compared to other harem games on this site."
And I would certainly like some honest opinions from "harem fans" playing this game if there are any left that is.

.....

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Yeah that's what I am saying that perhaps ntr was always the main theme of the game and harem was just there to make it more appealing to ntr fans.

I said "a part". You're exaggerating a little when you say "main theme". If you had said "major theme" I'd probably let it slide, but I'd say the main theme is "free love".

And you not being an ntr fan doesn't prove or disprove my statement because you are not a harem fan either and I was clearly talking about them and not someone in between. And you watch them so that makes you more inclined towards the ntr side anyway.

I wasn't trying to disprove what you said, but you seemed to imply a causal relationship between the makeup of PV's fanbase and the direction of the game, and I disagree with that assertion. However if that was not your intention then I apologize.

On a side note: you don't have to frame everything as binary, "NTR side" vs. "harem side" etc. I hope one day you may learn that some things don't have to be mutually-exclusive. I never said my opinion of harem content anyway, you only assumed it.

I wasn't saying that it's not a harem game but that it have become a shitty harem game that a very few harem fans will like but a perfect ntr game, that any ntr fan can play and most of them will get their mind blown by how good it turned out to be. Of course wwg might not have intended it to be like this but unfortunately for harem fans it's the way the game turned out to be.

I won't argue this because it's entirely subjective. But I do wonder if there are some NTR fans who are unhappy that this game doesn't have full-blown corruption paths. The brief tangents into NTR could be unsatisfying if someone wanted a deeper experience. Just a thought!

What? Why? Games said:

It's kind of odd to quote that when he's not even doing What If's anymore. I suppose you could say that the Dream Scenes are similar enough for your point to be the same. I would disagree though, the Dream Scenes are much smaller/shorter, and I haven't especially liked them, and yet I continue to support at the top tier. Why would I continue to do that? Maybe I just like this game, NTR or not. Again, I'm not saying this to argue, but to get you to consider another perspective.

 

[dartred]

Also you can't blame WWG for making the what ifs or dream scenes NTR. As stated before, A poll is held and the community suggests / votes what he has to make.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Also you can't blame WWG for making the what ifs or dream scenes NTR. As stated before, A poll is held and the community suggests / votes what he has to make.

If I could offer an analogy...

There's a well-known phenomenon where a movie director makes both "mainstream" films and "artistic" films. The mainstream films pay the bills so that the artistic films can even be made at all. It would be nonsense to begrudge the director for sometimes "catering to mainstream audiences", it's simply understood that bills gotta get paid! In a sense, we can think of the NTR scenes and side content (What Ifs, Dream Scenes, wallpapers) like the mainstream films; the financial support for their creation allows for the main game to be made. WWG ain't gonna work for free!

Now after saying that, there's also a slight chicken-and-egg paradox with this game: NTR content attracted NTR fans, who in turn vote for more NTR (side) content. As I said in my earlier post, NTR was always part of the game, but its initial inclusion may have triggered a feedback loop. It begs the question though: why don't vanilla/harem/etc. fans out-vote the NTR fans? Are they generally so intolerant of the (optional) NTR that they won't support a game that includes it? Are they just younger (on average) with less disposable money to give to porn creators? I'm curious.

 

[TGafy]

Idk if people are complaining about ntr much I certainly didn't see more than 3 to 4 complains about that here but I know for sure that this is the game with most ntr side projects and the game who inspired at least two if not more people to make their own ntr games. I mean how good a game needs to be with a certain tag to inspire other people to make their own games with that tag? I don't have to elaborate I guess. I have already said a few times that What? Why? Games next project imo with respect to current situation would be a fully fledged ntr game despite some saying that it will be a non ntr harem game. Which I find unrealistic/unbelievable considering how he himself admit that most of his earnings come from ntr fans and how good he is at presenting ntr genre, that many have expressed.

I think the question should be "how much they enjoyed the harem side of this game compared to other harem games on this site."
And I would certainly like some honest opinions from "harem fans" playing this game if there are any left that is.

You called it out yourself: "ntr side projects" are side projects. Their not a part of the main game and as long as the main game keeps ntr as the minority non-canon content, I'm good with that. As for the game inspiring others to create their own stories, it could be said that it's because they felt the main game was lacking ntr content and wanted to fill the void. Whether or not the next project will be ntr, that's your speculation. It's late and I won't bother looking for it, but iirc wwg said his next project wouldn't have ntr. That's what we've been going on.

As a "harem fan", I can tell you my opinion with the game. I know what I like and dislike. Being someone that dislikes ntr, I had it switched off from the start and it doesn't bother me a bit. I honestly don't understand how people that don't like some thing specifically chooses that same thing. It's like knowing a boiling kettle is hot and instead of lifting it by the handle they insist on grabbing the sides.

 

[dartred]

You called it out yourself: "ntr side projects" are side projects. Their not a part of the main game and as long as the main game keeps ntr as the minority non-canon content, I'm good with that. As for the game inspiring others to create their own stories, it could be said that it's because they felt the main game was lacking ntr content and wanted to fill the void. Whether or not the next project will be ntr, that's your speculation. It's late and I won't bother looking for it, but iirc wwg said his next project wouldn't have ntr. That's what we've been going on.

As a "harem fan", I can tell you my opinion with the game. I know what I like and dislike. Being someone that dislikes ntr, I had it switched off from the start and it doesn't bother me a bit. I honestly don't understand how people that don't like some thing specifically chooses that same thing. It's like knowing a boiling kettle is hot and instead of lifting it by the handle they insist on grabbing the sides.

Yeah, he did say his next game would not have NTR, but he said that 2 years ago. It shouldn't surprise anyone if he changed his mind in those 2 years.

 

[AlphaBit]

Yeah, he did say his next game would not have NTR, but he said that 2 years ago. It shouldn't surprise anyone if he changed his mind in those 2 years.

I would definitely be surprised.

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[Dr. Javi]

That's pretty much what if 8.

More

 

[FoolishFool0]

It had occurred to me this could be the hidden meaning of "Hunter's stock portfolio takes a big dip" (per the teaser post).

The whole thing could be meta, as if Hunter represents WWG himself. Their respective products have become more difficult to market as some in their audience are put off by the more extreme content.

Makes sense, the author seems to favour tongue and cheek jokes about the criticism he gets, like with the recent "they are drugged of course those women are idiots" joke about Cabin in the Woods, or the old Aliza NTR scene where Sterling falls off the stairs and the robot goes "I know people have been clamoring for NTR endings to stick around so I'll make it so on this instance" only to have Sterling die immediately.

 

[NachoAndCheez]

Makes sense, the author seems to favour tongue and cheek jokes about the criticism he gets, like with the recent "they are drugged of course those women are idiots" joke about Cabin in the Woods, or the old Aliza NTR scene where Sterling falls off the stairs and the robot goes "I know people have been clamoring for NTR endings to stick around so I'll make it so on this instance" only to have Sterling die immediately.

Don't forget the "I hope this balances out the Hunter/Sterling ratio of scenes" when Hunter fucks Starling. That was a funny joke.

 

[battali0n]

Yeah that's what I am saying that perhaps ntr was always the main theme of the game and harem was just there to make it more appealing to ntr fans.
And you not being an ntr fan doesn't prove or disprove my statement because you are not a harem fan either and I was clearly talking about them and not someone in between. And you watch them so that makes you more inclined towards the ntr side anyway.

I wasn't saying that it's not a harem game but that it have become a shitty harem game that a very few harem fans will like but a perfect ntr game, that any ntr fan can play and most of them will get their mind blown by how good it turned out to be. Of course wwg might not have intended it to be like this but unfortunately for harem fans it's the way the game turned out to be.

I've seen many developers try to mix the 2 genres and it never works because the fan base of NTR is diametrically opposed to the fan base of harems. Once I realized this I stopped supporting NTR optional games. Why pay for content I don't want when there are games that don't have it? The only reason so many NTR developers try to make their games harem is because they know that is where the money is. This has caused so many harem fans to be leery about opening up their wallets to new developers. If every developer would just be honest then there would be a lot less controversy in the threads and the mods wouldn't have to be involved very often. As soon as I saw that this game had NTR I decided to pass on it as it's not my cup of tea.

 

[TGafy]

Yeah, he did say his next game would not have NTR, but he said that 2 years ago. It shouldn't surprise anyone if he changed his mind in those 2 years.

I get that. Choices can change in two years. What I meant was, officially, news directly from wwg was that there wouldn't be ntr in the next one. Anything else is pure speculation.

 

[FoolishFool0]

Honestly? I find I don't really mind NTR bad endings here but mostly because most of them are unhinged. A bear ate Sterling alive once, Catherine set the house on fire, the author set up a Checkov gun so well Hunter got his neck snapped.

As long as the endings are this level of creative I'm fine with them, I'm tired of trite and boring "you didn't Grind enough for the debt collector so now your mom gets fucked by generic dudes" shit.

 

[dartred]

I've seen many developers try to mix the 2 genres and it never works because the fan base of NTR is diametrically opposed to the fan base of harems. Once I realized this I stopped supporting NTR optional games. Why pay for content I don't want when there are games that don't have it? The only reason so many NTR developers try to make their games harem is because they know that is where the money is.

No they aren't. It's the vanilla only crowd that is chewing out the NTR fans. You never see NTR fans getting mad that Vanilla content is in a game, never. You always see vanilla content only fans go into games mark with NTR and then complain about NTR.

This game is Harem / Vanilla content first and makes up 90% of the game. In what world is this treated as majority NTR with the Harem splashed it?

 

[AngryClerk]

Honestly? I find I don't really mind NTR bad endings here but mostly because most of them are unhinged. A bear ate Sterling alive once, Catherine set the house on fire, the author set up a Checkov gun so well Hunter got his neck snapped.

As long as the endings are this level of creative I'm fine with them, I'm tired of trite and boring "you didn't Grind enough for the debt collector so now your mom gets fucked by generic dudes" shit.

That and whether NTR is turned on or off, the antagonist actually suffers and gets foiled during the story. Some avn's out there use NTR elements or hints of it to get the jealousy/anger/despair and any other feelings associated with it into the story but they never bring out the opposite side of the coin where the player can get satisfaction/relief out of the antagonist suffering. Or they do but it is lackluster.

 

[lipe2410]

but they never bring out the opposite side of the coin where the player can get satisfaction/relief out of the antagonist suffering. Or they do but it is lackluster.

This, exactly this. That's why a lot of non-ntr paths in other games are really disaponted because is basicaly like any other harem game where MC seems like the only man in town and the ntr villains practically dissapear. And that's why the latest choices to avoid the bad ending were disappointed to me, because it was simply Sterling avoiding fall in some trap and nothing more. I miss watch creep old Hunter suffering and getting injuried.

 

[dartred]

I do understand not being able to injure him every time you avoid his bad end. There's only so many parts he can lose before it becomes obvious to the family. I'm sure we'll see some injuries come back as we get closer to getting rid of him.

 

[lipe2410]

I do understand not being able to injure him every time you avoid his bad end. There's only so many parts he can lose before it becomes obvious to the family. I'm sure we'll see some injuries come back as we get closer to getting rid of him.

I think he could lose some piece of his butt for the bear in ch. 10 without problem

 

[dartred]

I think he could lose some piece of his butt for the bear in ch. 10 without problem

Yeah, I was thinking what parts can he still lose and not be obvious. Things like skin or anything that can be hidden with clothes or replaced like his fake eye.

It's a minor injury, but I was thinking something like boiling hot drinks to burn his tongue and throat. It would be a temporary injury, but damn if it won't hurt at the moment.