We went from 95% finished in February to "Maybe sometime this year"
How does that happen exactly?
How does that happen exactly?
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SO in the good news column we have:
1. He isn't milking and is alive.
2.
In the bad news column we have: Everything else.
I'm very conflicted on how to feel about this aside from frustration and well wishes. I don't blame him for having health issues and despite how some creatives(In this field and others) manipulate/stall/etc using health issues I don't think there was any purposefully manipulative/ill intent in his actions because as I've said he could've done way more egregious things were that the case. But on the other hand bro was wildly unrealistic about when the update would be done considering he spent 4 months longer than he thought in what we have to assume was mostly time spent attempting to finish things only to be so far from completion he doesn't even try to give an ETA. So he pushed himself so much trying to get it done he ended up delaying it bc he didn't care for himself properly and/or he drastically underestimated how much was left and only realized it today.
Idk much about VN game design and all so I can't say I outright doubt what he's saying but I really don't understand how he could've looked at how much he had left at the start of March to say it'd be done by the end of it only to take 4 months more and still not have an ETA. Unless his health issues have kept or will keep him near comatose. I'm not saying I want him to overwork himself through a health crisis(Still sick over what happened to the author of Roxana, for example, though that's a different medium/situation) I'm just saying that unless he is already in crisis/on the edge of a crisis that keeps him in constant pain/unconscious/etc I can't wrap my head around that much of under-estimation on a release date. And I can't help but feel even a little bit more detail(Either now or throughout) about what specifically is delayed and why he thought it wouldn't be would make everyone feel so much better. But I know we won't get that especially if he's feeling bad enough to not even guess an ETA.
But hey; He's still alive and he's not stringing us along and making us wait till the last second to let us down like we're kids in a slowly darkening Chuck-E-Cheese waiting for a birthday cake he promised us so he's better than my dad, I guess(this is only half a joke). Despite what I'm sure 100s of comments on here in the next few months will say he's better than a lot of devs in that regard. At least now we can wait awhile knowing we don't have to check every hour for an update(I will anyway).
Now especially given what jayphi45 reported a few replies up I feel even more need to fall back into my regularly scheduled programming for such a situation:
1. Vodka/Weed
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Massagecook01
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I can tell you exaclty why that happens no Accountability from the Patreons they keep giving these Devs chance after chance with no threat of cutting support thats how they stay in business for years, and you see that more and more Dev's are taking over a year to put out a update.
Jokes aside, I think it actually IS likely that there is a correlation between being an adult game developer and higher rates of illness.
The higher frequency of mental illness in creative types is already well-documented, and I would not be surprised if that preponderance isn't even higher when your creativity is focused on sexual content and the added stigma that brings. I'm not saying that as judgment in any way. I myself have struggled with my mental health throughout my life.
As for physical health, first, there is a strong correlation between mental health struggles and poor physical health (so same point as above). Secondly, someone who is spending so much of their free time creating these games is likely leading a very sedentary lifestyle, which is not conducive to good health.
This of course isn't true for everyone, but I am only partially joking when I say that we should recognize and celebrate the sacrifices that our brave porn creators make for our benefit. I truly am grateful for those who devote so much time and energy to create this great and IMPORTANT content that is subject to ridicule, shame, and/or condemnation from a large portion of our population.
You're heroes, AVN creators, all of you!
Did you happen to notice the part where he is cutting off his own support. Kind of undercuts your argument. And if you are thinking that he should have cut it off sooner. I doubt if you were having health struggles, you'd willingly give up a source of income when you're needing it most. That's the reason we have paid sick leave and disability insurance for workers. People who make their income from patrons don't get those protections.
Massagecook01
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If we don't have the Dev's themselves making excuses we have the fans making excuses for them can't you just be honest with us and yourself and say you all was fooled and wasted you money on nothing because thats exactly what you got for waiting for over a year nothing. Maybe you will learn from this and stop giving Dev's chances that they don't deserve I don't understand how hard it is to understand this I give you money you give me something if you don't give me something I don't give you money it's simple but yall like to give money to Dev's and get nothing but excuses and empty promises. If you can't take someone for their word then what good are they do you want somone to tell you they will do something for you then don't do it will you trust them again no right.
I just think somewhere along the line there was a lie told to us, either it was just about finished and he hasn't been able to put any work into it over five months or it was nowhere near complete and he lied about it. When you lie to me you break my trust entirely and I won't give it again.
As a dev I can actually answer this one.
When I'm on point and running on all cylinders. I can complete a massive amount of work in a day.
Which is good. Because just writing the first draft of a scene can take a full day if not longer.
So when I look at the amount of work left to do. I can easily say "Oh ya. If I knuckle down and focus. I could finish all that up in a week!"
However if (for whatever reason) I can't devote full days to it. And instead can only manage, say two hours most days.
Suddenly, that week of work. Turns into over a month before I actually finish it all.
Massagecook01
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as a Dev can you answer me a question does any AVN game take a year or more in development to put out and i'm saying 1 chapter.?
He... he just told you...
The dude's sick. Of course he can't devote full days to it.
I don't think so.
Given the amount of previews he's posted as well as the animation montage we saw earlier.
I'd say he's produced most, if not all, of the DAZ3D content for this update.
What I see a lot of devs do (sometimes including myself). Is create all the renders, and animation. And only start writing the scenes when everything else is done.
I've found personally. This is a massive mistake. Especially for a big update.
You can not imagine how big a mental mountain it is, having to write that much with nothing to break it up.
With DAZ you can zone out while your work. Listen to pod casts, watch movies on a second monitor.
And breaks are built in, every time to click 'render'.
Render work isn't all that mentally taxing. It's just work. Something you can do even when you don't feel creative.
But with writing. You have to devote your whole brain to the process and it is extremely exhausting/time consuming.
Health issues or not. This being the biggest update he's ever put out. I could easily see him thinking he was way closer to being done than he really was.
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There's been a few. Though most devs don't release updates the way WWG does. Structurally speaking I mean.
Funding AVN games is not about releasing a finished game. It's more of a live service thing where you're trying to keep a fan base paying every month.
Instead of getting someone to pay you once for a copy of your game. You have to keep them engaged with your game every month so they keep paying you every month. If not with updates to the game. Then with previews or other community engagement.
Despite what people think. Devs know, the best way to keep fans from canceling their subs, and attracting new subs. Is to release updates as often as possible.
WWG is doing a chapter based release. Which is the worst way to satisfy live service subscribers.
I actually prefer this method as a player because when an update does drop. There's tons of content in it.
But most people hate it because of the long times between update.
"Why pay every month, when I only see two updates a year?"
As WWG has gained experience and expertise making PV. Each chapter takes longer to complete as they have
-More events then the previous update.
-More animations then the previous update.
-Higher quality work (which requires more time to achieve) then the previous update.
This being the final chapter of the game. WWG also has to wrap up the entire story which only add to the time it takes.
TimeStamps is another game that had the same issues.
In both cases, the dev isn't being 'lazy' or 'milking'. It's that chapter based releases take more and more time to put out.
And in a community that wants consistent updates for their monthly sub. That creates a lot of... friction among fans.
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Virpgoil
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It's true. Nobody likes to talk about it but look at the lives of a lot of Japanese solo game developers. If you read their updates over on ci-en it shows a pretty bleak side to their isolated lifestyle. I'm not saying all developers live like this, but the one's that do it takes a big toll on their mental health.
Alexbt
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barglenarglezous
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And it's worse if the games are choice-based, because releasing a whole chapter with choices that matter means coding a lot of contingencies and alternate paths that many players will never see.
barglenarglezous
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Some other factors to consider:
1) Payment processors going after NSFW games puts an additional strain on mental health.
2) Governments cracking down on adult content does, too.
3) Healthcare systems are not created equal, and making VNs doesn't exactly come with health insurance if you live in a country like the US.
Very true.
The Point of No Return had that issue with three completely different story routes.
This caused all sorts of drama among fans and imo was the main reason that dev's game never got much traction.
acehigh
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Nearly all of that is not applicable to this particular circumstance for this chapter delay lol.
It's a combination of extremely poor planning and laziness on the Devs part, coupled with the claimed health issues (which could be or not be true, I won't say he's lying or truthful since I'm not him).
Milking really comes down to the supporters themselves though, so I don't blame Devs on that part since supporters can control their own pockets and easily unsubscribe which is what should happen more often (in general) than it does. Many are either extremely forgiving or just tend to forget they're even subscribed. Although, what commonly happens with hiatus' is the billing will be put on hold for a while which helps prevent very many bothering to unsubscribe and then the billing pause will be removed once it's "actively being worked on" again, and then they'll afk. And many will only have noticed the initial "billing paused" memo (if they even noticed that part) and end up not even realizing they're continuing paying monthly for something that'll be drawn out to insane timelines or just never finished altogether
I don't think WWG will fall under this party, but if it happens, I really wouldn't be surprised. It's a lavish dream of mine to be able to join ICSTOR and DarkCookie on the beach sipping margaritas and posting "Is this game abandoned?" on my burner account while seeing my bank account go crazy
When I make my game, don't say I didn't warn you Edit: My bad, I forgot DC is still pushing out "tech updates"