So... The dev said he's pausing the patreon for upcoming months. I'm guessing we won't see another update on F95 till at least 2025 then, is that correct?
Unreal Engine Project Extermination: Operation GroundZeroes [Phase 2 - 2023-07-16] [MATEYDEV]
- Thread starter Alket
- Start date
Yeah i don't think we're going to get anything from this yet. I don't mean to sound like a dickhead, but if the priority right now is to "make a game first then an adult game" then you're already turning off your main crowd away. I want to be clear, if i want to play a good game, i can go play any Metal Gear, Far Cry, COD, Elder Scrolls or Fallout out there. The MAIN attraction here is the porn.
If you don't push what makes the game attractive in the first place, then you're not going to get very far i think. Even though this project is fucking great, don't get me wrong, it's truly one of the best things i've seen come out, when it comes to hentai games (Like Parasite in City, Night of Revenge and then this). It's really in my top three, but not getting any of the content that actually matters, is a huge letdown for me and maybe others.
Also there's always that lingering demon from the other two projects that got trashed out, so yeah, just hope this one works out but i can already say with confidence that not updating the porn aspect of the game is going to take away some points for now.
While I understand your point and concern, the fact that this wants to be a game with actual gameplay is not the issue, the "issue" is limited budget, development time and development expectations: there's a reason if the project is proceeding slowly, we have a single developer, with not enough budged to hire anyone else while not starving and a bar set high enough by his actual and previous projects "demo"/"PoCs"/"showcases" that have locked him on a set quality that he (rightfully) refuses to lower.
This slows down development time and he shifted to building the big gameplay systems first, to avoid getting stucked on a wall if he were to develop more small scale stuff (like adult mechanics) first that could not be seamlessly integrated back into the project once the bigger chunks of gameplay systems had been put in place.
From a pure marketing standpoint I agree with you, that tossing a bone to the horny crowd could have brought him more support, but that's not his objective, is objective is to create a game, a game of this quality requires time, not everyone is willing to wait that long and many are not even capable of understanding that things require time and effort and that there are limitations, that's understood and he made his choice, he prefers to work slowly and more steadily, with maybe lower expectations regarding the release of adult material, maybe less support, but at least he will not be forced in a toxic cycle of releasing new animations and focusing only on the pornographic aspect every update to please a crowd that doesn't really care about his actual goal, creating a game.
Oh yeah sure, i already read your previous posts in this thread, maybe i was just stating the obvious. But again, "the horny crowd" is the main audience. If it's not his objective that's fine, but the consequences are the same, more or less. Anyways, hope it all works out in the end
Solo dev experience, ain't that the truth. Just model sculpting and material making takes time, animating takes more time, then you get to the functional in-game part. If it's gonna fit good a heap of lore and flow planning goes before even step 1. It's the slow speed of the solo dev process that justifies the perspective that you have to look at this project as one person's personal hobby than anything you should reasonably have stake in with the expectation that this will be finished and good at all. Unless you agree with the dev to share the labor and that works out productively.
Paying money helps motivate the developer and support them for the burden of building, but donations aren't enough to make developing a full-time job. Even then, you got the "porn games can't fit on a public portfolio" problem so... you're kinda in a hole either way. So I understand Matto's situation.
I think however long this game's development takes it'll be worthy, because the hentai market is full of lame gameplay precisely because catering to fetishes gets high clout for lower effort, and hentai gamers can be so one-sided towards the porn and fetishes that it blinds them to the value of the rest of the effort invested. It's hard to satisfy the "hentai gamer" market as they want both good gameplay and porn, but members of the crowd don't value the porn and the gameplay the same across everyone.
Paying money helps motivate the developer and support them for the burden of building, but donations aren't enough to make developing a full-time job. Even then, you got the "porn games can't fit on a public portfolio" problem so... you're kinda in a hole either way. So I understand Matto's situation.
I think however long this game's development takes it'll be worthy, because the hentai market is full of lame gameplay precisely because catering to fetishes gets high clout for lower effort, and hentai gamers can be so one-sided towards the porn and fetishes that it blinds them to the value of the rest of the effort invested. It's hard to satisfy the "hentai gamer" market as they want both good gameplay and porn, but members of the crowd don't value the porn and the gameplay the same across everyone.
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I don't know about "limited budget" man. The guy has 2000+ patreons and his past record of delivering games is abysmal. Devs with way lesser support have been making incredible games and the only difference is Unreal engine. Both of his previous "games" were nothing but proof of concepts that got abandoned, including this one. It isn't even a demo, and these are your words, not mine.
A guy who's abandoned two projects, hasn't delivered anything, and is taking a break for months again.
I honestly don't understand how he got the support that he does. Maybe people are under copium that he'll release the assets for the game in Unreal Store? is that it? What is the endgame here?
If porn isn't a priority, then is he looking to make another MGSV?
I still think the sidescroller had the most potential by far... It's a shame he "lost" all the data in the failing hard drive. IMO he just didn't want another abandoned tag attached to it so it's 'on hold' for 10 years lmao
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Honestly, this is probably the smartest move to make. Alot of these indie games end up going nowhere because they just keep stapling "feature" on to "feature" until all they're left with is a jenga tower of bugs. It's good that Mattey has a plan and is building a foundation, first. I'm just hoping it doesn't take half a decade like some games made by one-man-teams.
The issue with solo-person developer "teams" is that it's literally all a gamble on the life's free time of just that one person. It straddles the line on ethical to accept donations because it's mostly always better to keep a normal job and do the game part-time than it is to make the games full-time, and I swear donators really don't understand the core concept that "donation" practically literally translates to "gift". As in, pay for nothing in return.
As for hard drive failure, I've had scary moments like that to manage even during a project. As the hard-drive's connection randomly fails it stops operations to move files out of it, making the copying of small files unreliable and large files nearly impossible. A resourceful user can use TeraCopy to retry after disconnects and verify all files have the right checksum compared to originals, and a savvy user can set up a machine copy job to do the same but more automatically. Although when it comes to utterly complete failure, data recovery centers charge way more money to resolve physical drive failure than logical drive failure. Sometimes this stuff happens and it sucks, that's it.
What's worse is some things that aren't even actual games take years even with teams involving more than 1 person, like any Elder Scrolls remake mod project. Sometimes people looking for extreme detail on character models could take years doing that if it was only 1 person on a awfully busy schedule. Game dev often sucks and the best you can do is deal with the time taken. You can't even be mad anymore when someone skims some studio game for graphics and uses easy engines like ClickTeam or WolfRPG, because the alternative for superior quality to a single dev is personal hell.
It pains me reading these kind of posts, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and it shows...I don't know about "limited budget" man. The guy has 2000+ patreons and his past record of delivering games is abysmal. Devs with way lesser support have been making incredible games and the only difference is Unreal engine. Both of his previous "games" were nothing but proof of concepts that got abandoned, including this one. It isn't even a demo, and these are your words, not mine.
A guy who's abandoned two projects, hasn't delivered anything, and is taking a break for months again.
I honestly don't understand how he got the support that he does. Maybe people are under copium that he'll release the assets for the game in Unreal Store? is that it? What is the endgame here?
If porn isn't a priority, then is he looking to make another MGSV?
I still think the sidescroller had the most potential by far... It's a shame he "lost" all the data in the failing hard drive. IMO he just didn't want another abandoned tag attached to it so it's 'on hold' for 10 years lmao
first thing first, he never had 2k+ patrons, never, he had at top ~850 paying members, with a peak of 1050 followers at a single spike (
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);Second , you are obviously not a developer yourself and cannot understand the iterative process that comes when producing something as complex as this, you don't wanna believe that his pc blew up? Fine (again with this fucking paranoia, seriously) then accept the fact that he went through stages where for the first year (yes one single year man) he produced 2 different demos before settling on this project as his final goal...
Third, other Devs with Unreal have done better with the same budget? Projects this complex? I really want you to list the names here, because I know of none, if there are, good for them! I would like to see and appreciate their projects, so please, share...
Fourth, look at how much he has done since July 2020, when he launched his Patreon, dude, you say that you don't understand how he got this much support? While you also got all the numbers wrong? I say I don't understand how he has so little and doesn't have the numbers you claim!
Finally, if you take the F95 tags as a measure of mettle for a developer, I'm sorry, but you should be prepared to be called out, this site is not only a place full of toxic people and pirates, but is also beyond the control of any developer, do you think he wanted his stuff posted here? His old prototypes for everyone to shit on while he's working his ass off?
I mean no disrespect, but please, get back to reality, things take time and things not always go in the direction one wants, this project might not be for you, accept that, I hope you'll find what you're looking for...if you think this one is, then stoking doubt and conflict with these objectively wrong and confrontation posts it's not helping at all...
Sorry for the wall of text, sorry if I offended u.
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I want to add that a particular issue to NSFW-anything development, people in the normal sphere will nope the fuck out. Opinion, patronage, game dev help, even common-sense tips for prospective newbie devs? You get major silence from the SFW dev and artist sphere if it even looks like you're making something too flirtatious. Like, it's better to stay a SFW dev for a long time just to get more active help from the larger mainstream base. If you're an NSFW dev and you're thinking you want someone more experienced to provide advice on how to get past a particular issue... you feel like there are chirping crickets where there would be help. Or you don't bother posting because you know NSFW content isn't allowed in that place. Or you don't post for help because you don't want to be known as a creep.
So on top of the rest, NSFW projects will make your game development an isolated island to the majority of people alive. And yet again, you can't show it on a portfolio for public works either.
Well, I hope this will eventually change...this issue, while real, I think it's predominantly an American one, where you have a big chunk of population extremely puritan, here in Europe it's not like that, but it's nonetheless true that porn is still avoided by many...tho you then realize, that the big publishers are all with a foot in the US, then again realize that studios based in the EU are already moving to more "uncensored" and adult oriented gaming releases, CD Projekt being the prime example, then there are some who are pushing the boundaries like Madmind Studio (with mixed results sadly)...so it's starting to change...
I'd like to add that for China NSFW in both the sexual and violent sense is heavily restricted. Japan is very free but in the triple-A public sphere things like Mortal Kombat still get looked down upon. Baldur's Gate 3 is seeing censorship as it prepares for Asia releases. Not many people talk about Middle East game release (what dev / what audience), but for those times I've seen it the strong religious hold is brutal to scary levels.
- Dec 1, 2018
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"half a decade"
5 years? That seems kinda reasonable. Maybe a bit too optimistic due to 1 man team depending on scope (which prob means that should get reduced tbh). The big studios can take 4+ years to makes some of their games.
People often forget that apparently...
Like i said, i'm definetely not hating on the project, quite the contrary, it's up there in my top three. I was just stating an opinion that i had, based on what has happened on other projects that weren't really the same as this one, but died out for similar reasons.
Let's not get carried away, it's not like the project is just going to flop out of nowhere and i also wholeheartedly believe the other one got trashed because of a hard drive failure "hurr he shuld hab mad a cupy!" yes, that's been stated, but that shit can happen, SSD'S can fuck up out of nowhere and old hard drives can die off like it's nothing. I was only talking about the support that is derived from these types of projects and where it comes from.
I haven't seen any other game as advanced as this one really, either they lack the quality in animations or style, or they lack a smooth feel good gameplay. It's never the whole thing, this game, even if it is just bare bones like an anorexic chicken, is the whole thing and more, and goddamn is it fucking cool.
But maybe he's already gathered enough of a loyal following that they'll keep supporting even with a lack of new NSFW content. I really hope that's the case.
Again, i wish nothing but the best to the dev, hope it works out in the end
Let's not get carried away, it's not like the project is just going to flop out of nowhere and i also wholeheartedly believe the other one got trashed because of a hard drive failure "hurr he shuld hab mad a cupy!" yes, that's been stated, but that shit can happen, SSD'S can fuck up out of nowhere and old hard drives can die off like it's nothing. I was only talking about the support that is derived from these types of projects and where it comes from.
I haven't seen any other game as advanced as this one really, either they lack the quality in animations or style, or they lack a smooth feel good gameplay. It's never the whole thing, this game, even if it is just bare bones like an anorexic chicken, is the whole thing and more, and goddamn is it fucking cool.
But maybe he's already gathered enough of a loyal following that they'll keep supporting even with a lack of new NSFW content. I really hope that's the case.
Again, i wish nothing but the best to the dev, hope it works out in the end
- Apr 21, 2020
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i actually want the gameplay to be finish first compared to the sex scene. i know that's sound weird to say because where we are right now.
I just want something else besides Skyrim or fallout with sex mod to fill in the void that is 50/50 with gameplay and sex. if there is a story in this game i think it would enhance the sex even more.
I just want something else besides Skyrim or fallout with sex mod to fill in the void that is 50/50 with gameplay and sex. if there is a story in this game i think it would enhance the sex even more.
- Oct 6, 2018
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I actually said it some time ago, not sure if it was in this project or a project by someone else. Indie devs (specially solo devs) cannot finish projects with this massive escope by themselves in such a "normal" time frame (5 years) and anyone who thinks otherwise is just stupid or naive. Now, a developer should also know this from the get go, right? So.......... what is exactly the planning of all these solo devs that embark themselves in such huge 3D projects that will obviously not finish in less than 5+ years... (if they manage such a feat). Makes me wonder if the Patreon trend will end at some point when people start realising this.
It's about passion. You get a dream one day, and not just any dream -- a fantastic dream. You imagine something that nobody has done 30 years in the past nor will do 30 years into the future. You just want to pick up tutorials and tools and start expressing yourself. But you know this venture takes a ton of time and effort and you figure if what you dreamt of is so great why not tell people about it so you can get support? The money isn't just for motivation it's often for paying licenses for tools like Zbrush, Substance, Adobe, Maya, and those plugins on sites like Gumroad.
Of course the trouble with a fantastic dream you've come up with is that you want to get people to adopt it. Your dream may start anywhere from the size of small (a year of effort) to medium (up to 5 years of effort), but to really get the public to see how great the concept's potential is you do significant work in planning its elements, which also expands its potential. Unfortunately, your scope expands so far that it's not unreasonable to look at your free time and think something like this can now take about 12 years of free time with your current efficiency for how you spend time after work and instead of things you actually consider fun. So you double-down and pound in hours in defiance of your brutally large scope and time estimate because you just want to make it happen.
And people pay because they want it to happen too. In a perfect world there'd be some kind of professional talent administrator who devs could trust to reveal their work to without risk of getting their concepts stolen, who can then write a public report to say this dev is definitely doing enough work that said talent admin can pull funds from a public fund to pay them to work on their project, and guarantee that if the dev's life gets too busy for their project talent can be hired on or the project can be passed on with respectable credit still given to the founding developer. In a perfect fantasy world, sure.
In reality, the dev showcases their work through concept art and demos and gets recognition for their own project. People pay what they feel instead of what the work deserves, and you just have to try to live up to your hype as without said hype your project has a slim chance of getting anywhere. Heck, you wouldn't even break even on the tools, plugins, resources, and tutorials you're not pirating.
Talking about ambitious and complex projects, there are 2 kind of solo developers on crowdfunding platforms:
- those that have enough funds to invest and hire people from the get-go, therefore stops being solo developers.
- those who don't have enough funds and hope that their project gets enough traction to attract a good amount of supporters, gaining the budget to enter the 1st category.
The poetry in JustAI 's post is good and all, but no one in his right mind would keep working solo with a monthly crowdfunding amount that would allow him/her to live (maybe even rather comfortably, why not) while also hiring help, getting the project out should always be the priority, there are scammers yes (ProjectE might be a good and obvious example, hell, even Star Citizen from my perspective), but if you start a project you want to finish the project, you don't set up all the circus just to milk people, you actually need effort and skill to even start showing off in order to gain money, at that point it's actually a better idea to work on it and gain even more by establishing a reputation and a precedent.
Matto resides in the 2nd group of the above list, he's a perfectionist maniac and a mad workhorse, yes, and takes pride in his own work, he likes what he does, but if he was making enough to actually start saving something he would have started outsourcing part of his work to expedite the release, at least the most tedious shit.
It's always a question of money & budget, nothing more.
This is it in a nutshell. Solo dev either to the end or until there's enough to show to start a campaign that rakes in budget for a crew. Typically though the money is peanuts really -- folks donate the kind of money you could reasonably find on the ground walking the street, which could add up to something to pay for some programs and assets. What I mean is, if you hop into developing something and calculate your own constraints you get to appreciate the commitment and effort these projects take in spite of their budget scarcity.