VN Ren'Py Project Myriam - Life and Explorations [Ch. 5.03+p] [Zorlun]

[Zara Scarlet]

Perhaps you're thinking of how things are in your playthrough. But that's not necessarily how things are in other playthroughs. It should be remembered that, as Zorlun has said, there isn't one true version of the game, but rather, all of the content which he has included as possible is equally valid.

Perhaps in your game, Myriam is the one who's ultimately in control. In my playthrough, Myriam is in control of very little, with anyone. And Marc has already made her do things which she didn't want to do, on more than one occasion.



The only hard limit which is written into the game so far is that Myriam won't allow Marc to involve Katherine. When he suggested it, she put a stop to it and shut him down for a while. But since her return from the hospital, with Marc's assurance that he won't ever try to involve Katherine again, he's been gradually retaking control.

She's ultimately in control in every playthrough. Myriam surrenders control to Marc in some scenarios, because she thinks that will help him come to terms with her break-up with Anthony, that has left him feeling helpless. But she never gives up complete control. There are limits to how far she will go, in their 'game'. And if Marc goes too far, she puts her foot down ( and Marc always concedes). That happens whether Myriam is Sub or Dom. Whatever control Marc believes he has, is illusionary. He's still very immature, and when push comes to shove, he still needs his mom to be there for him, when things get too much.

And I think there's a big difference between Myriam giving in to Marc and him forcing her to do something. He never actually makes her do anything. She gives in to him on many occasions, but she can also do the opposite, and he can't stop her. So it's wrong to suggest he's retaking control. He's never been in control, except when Myriam has allowed it to happen.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Mark already has pics on his phone of Myriam passed out when he fucked her and gave her a facial that was awhile ago after the gangbang at the gala

True, but she isn't aware of that. If she knew, they probably would have been deleted by now. There's a huge difference between him taking photos when she's asleep or insensible, and her actively agreeing to allow it.

 

[TomUK]

The only hard limit which is written into the game so far is that Myriam won't allow Marc to involve Katherine. When he suggested it, she put a stop to it and shut him down for a while. But since her return from the hospital, with Marc's assurance that he won't ever try to involve Katherine again, he's been gradually retaking control.

But that means Myriam is still basically in control over Marc, she allows him to dominate her because she likes it, but ultimately if she doesn't like something she will stop him.

Crystal is supposed to be one of the top pornstars in the country, so I don't see her making homemade videos. She probably works with professional guys like Flint. If Myriam does porn, it's likely to be with him or if she's dating Crystal, another producer that she knows.

That's not going to happen unless everyone goes back and does the Flint photoshoot and just forget about the 'gym' scene if you want to go down the porn route.

Alright if she's sub, she might enjoy getting dominated by Marc. But for her it's just a game, and one that has to stay firmly behind closed doors. She'll never take the risk of involving Marc in anything as public as Porn. She might be tempted to risk her own reputation, but never his.

I think someone is forgetting about the school toilet scene when Marc orders Myriam to suck off the fat kid while he's fucking her.

Mark already has pics on his phone of Myriam passed out when he fucked her and gave her a facial that was awhile ago after the gangbang at the gala

At this stage I think Marc knows that if he ever showed those pics to anyone and Myriam found out, which she would being a teacher at the school where Marc would show those pics to his school mates, then he would be toast and never get anything from Myriam again.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

That's not going to happen unless everyone goes back and does the Flint photoshoot and just forget about the 'gym' scene if you want to go down the porn route.

Well I'm assuming in a discussion about the possibility of Myriam doing porn, that everyone is on that route. Obviously, if you're not then it won't happen.

I think someone is forgetting about the school toilet scene with the fat kid that Marc orders Myriam to suck off the fat kid.

I'm not forgetting about that at all. Yeah, Myriam lets Marc dominate her in that scene. If she didn't allow him to boss her around some of the time, then they wouldn't be in a sub/dom relationship at all. And that only happens because Myriam initially stops Marc from bullying Jonas for spying on them. She takes control and physically prevents him from beating Jonas up. If you choose for her not to intervene, then the scene you're referring to never happens. The implication being, that if you allow Myriam to be a coward and go against her true nature, you're going to miss out on content.

The whole point of that scene was to show that Myriam, will put Marc in his place when the situation demands it. He's only being allowed to dominate her, and if he goes too far, she'll seize back control. It's all about teaching Marc to be a better man than his father, and that being dominant and being a bully, are totally different things.

 

[mimiko857]

hi just asking, is there any way to download the latest update files only? without having to download the whole file again? its just so huge sorry i got limited and slow tethering mobile internet connected to my pc

 

[GokutheG]

I know our Mys can be really different from each other based on our choices but I really can't see her agreeing to star in porn with Marc and that's strengthened due to the newest release. When the old neighbor tries to use photos of when her daughter and friend were relaxing in the back yard to blackmail her she can go mama bear on him in order to protect her. Those photos were relatively mild compared to making full blown porn. I really don't think she'd do something that could possibly be used against her son.

 

[TheLecher]

She's ultimately in control in every playthrough.

This is simply incorrect. Depending on player choice, Myriam was not at all in control with Anthony. Myriam was not at all in control in the (currently few) rape scenes. And I've read that, in the bestiality content, Myriam has no control over Cassius, at least in certain segments of the game.

Myriam surrenders control to Marc in some scenarios, because she thinks that will help him come to terms with her break-up with Anthony, that has left him feeling helpless. But she never gives up complete control. There are limits to how far she will go, in their 'game'. And if Marc goes too far, she puts her foot down ( and Marc always concedes). That happens whether Myriam is Sub or Dom.

This is more accurate after the instance when Marc talked about involving Katherine. That shocked Myriam out of her submissive state, and caused her to reclaim control of the situation. Before that, depending on player choice, she most definitely had given up complete control. Marc was making her do things, and she was swept along by what he wanted. It took a threat to her daughter to break her out of his control.

It's certainly true that Marc did fold up like a lawn chair, once she broke out of her submissive state. And it's certainly true that, since Myriam's return from the hospital, Marc has not returned (or not yet returned) to having the control over her that he had before. Whether that continues to be the case, or whether Marc gradually becomes a bit more like Anthony will be up to Zorlun, and we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm inclined to think that Zorlun won't allow a version of events in which Marc truly becomes like Anthony, and he'll keep that kind of content limited to other characters, like Bill's father, Jarvis. But that's just a guess. We'll have to wait and see.

Whatever control Marc believes he has, is illusionary. He's still very immature, and when push comes to shove, he still needs his mom to be there for him, when things get too much.

What Marc needs does not necessarily control or limit his actions. Both in fiction and in real life, people often act outside of, or even against their own interests. Yes, Marc is still very immature, but immaturity does not preclude control in any way, just like maturity does not give control in any way.

He never actually makes her do anything.

Maybe you haven't played that content. He certainly has made her do things, and not only the blowjob in the school toilet scene.

But that means Myriam is still basically in control over Marc, she allows him to dominate her because she likes it, but ultimately if she doesn't like something she will stop him.

She might like it. She might not like it. Sometimes she makes comments, mentally or verbally, about liking it or being turned on. At other times, she seems to be making comments which suggest that she doesn't like it, or at least some aspects of it. In both cases, she submits. Depending on player choice, there are definitely segments of the game when Myriam submits, not because she likes it, but because it's her character.

Prior to Marc's misstep regarding Katherine, she didn't stop him at any time, and possibly couldn't, whether she liked it or not. Since Marc's misstep, she has ultimately been in control, and has been able to stop Marc. Also since that incident, Marc has been more subdued, and has not tried to go too far. Both of these things (Myriam being in ultimate control in her relationship with Marc, and Marc being more subdued) may continue for the rest of the game, or they may change.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Depending on player choice, Myriam was not at all in control with Anthony.

I really don't get what you mean by that, if it's depends on players' choices then players are in control of Myriam's actions. If you meant greyed out choices, even though I also don't like them, you still have control over just not on exact moment.

 

[TheLecher]

I really don't get what you mean by that, if it's depends on players' choices then players are in control of Myriam's actions. If you meant greyed out choices, even though I also don't like them, you still have control over just not on exact moment.

What I mean is that there's a difference between player choice and Myriam's choices. For example, after Myriam confronts Anthony about his cheating, he threatens her. The player can choose to have Myriam stand up to him and kick him out of the house. If that's what the player chooses, then that becomes a choice which Myriam makes, even though it goes against her ingrained responses with Anthony. On the other hand, if the player does not choose to have Myriam stand up to Anthony, then she submits to him. In that case, it's less of a choice for Myriam, and more of a reflexive or conditioned response. In that case, the player's choice is not the same as Myriam's choice, because Myriam doesn't really make a choice. She's not submitting to Anthony because she secretly likes it, or because she considered her options and decided that this option was for the best. She want with the flow, because that has become her character.

 

[Snugglepuff]

I really don't get what you mean by that

Then read what he's responding to.
It doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

What I mean is that there's a difference between player choice and Myriam's choices. For example, after Myriam confronts Anthony about his cheating, he threatens her. The player can choose to have Myriam stand up to him and kick him out of the house. If that's what the player chooses, then that becomes a choice which Myriam makes, even though it goes against her ingrained responses with Anthony. On the other hand, if the player does not choose to have Myriam stand up to Anthony, then she submits to him. In that case, it's less of a choice for Myriam, and more of a reflexive or conditioned response. In that case, the player's choice is not the same as Myriam's choice, because Myriam doesn't really make a choice. She's not submitting to Anthony because she secretly likes it, or because she considered her options and decided that this option was for the best. She want with the flow, because that has become her character.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

This is simply incorrect. Depending on player choice, Myriam was not at all in control with Anthony. Myriam was not at all in control in the (currently few) rape scenes. And I've read that, in the bestiality content, Myriam has no control over Cassius, at least in certain segments of the game.

We were talking specifically about her relationship with Marc, not her relationship with other characters. Obviously, I meant every playthrough involving him. With other characters, that's a completely different matter.

Before that, depending on player choice, she most definitely had given up complete control. Marc was making her do things, and she was swept along by what he wanted. It took a threat to her daughter to break her out of his control.

I don't think this is the case. Mark doesn't make her do anything. He manipulates her, by playing on her emotions, making her believe that she pretty much forced herself upon him whilst she was drunk, so there's no reason why they shouldn't do it again. Myriam doesn't think Marc is capable of making something like this up, so she thinks it has to be true. And since she's already fantasised about having sex with him, it's not much of a stretch to believe she might be capable of such a thing, whilst being totally drunk and high on weed.

And once she's crossed that threshold and thoroughly enjoyed it, it's so much easier to carry on doing it. Even if she feels ashamed of succumbing to her dark desires. Deep down she isn't doing this to satisfy Marc, she's doing it to satisfy herself. She wants to do it, just as much as Marc does. Her relationship with Marc is not primarily about control, it's about desire, and having sex with her son. When she was a girl, Myriam had a kind of sexual relationship with her brother, so she's no stranger to having incestuous desires.

Maybe you haven't played that content.

I've played all the content involving Marc. At most he manipulates her, because he knows how trusting she is. Making someone do something, implies that you can force them to do it, in whatever circumstances. Marc is simply not in a position to do that. Instead he takes advantage of her trusting nature and her inability to believe that someone she loves, would try to do her wrong.

Maybe manipulation is a form of control, but it's not exactly dominance either. If Marc was truly dominant, he wouldn't need to lie and cheat Myriam, to get his way. And it's obvious Marc doesn't really believe that he's controlling Myriam, because he gives up so easily, whenever she challenges him. That's why it's illusionary, he cannot stand up to her. Yeah, when she goes along with it, Marc acts like the total dominant he'd like to be. But the moment she says no, and means it, he caves every time.

 

[Udayana]

Sometimes I'm wondering if players are reading and viewing a VN, or attempting to rewrite it.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Prior to Marc's misstep regarding Katherine, she didn't stop him at any time, and possibly couldn't, whether she liked it or not.

That's not true. She gets angry when he makes a crude joke about Katherine and Jennifer, and makes him apologise. Then later at school she stops him bullying Jonas, after Marc realises he's been listening to them having sex, in the adjoining toilet cubicle.

 

[TheLecher]

We were talking specifically about her relationship with Marc, not her relationship with other characters. Obviously, I meant every playthrough involving him. With other characters, that's a completely different matter.

When you said that Myriam was ultimately in control, I took you to mean in all scenarios in the game. If you only meant in her relationship with Marc, then I misunderstood you.

That being said, I stand by my argument that Myriam was not ultimately in control in her relationship with Marc, from the time when the two of them were in the laundry room together until the time when Marc foolishly mentioned wanting to corrupt Katherine.

At the current time in the game, I agree that she has regained a large degree of control, though I think the power balance is still shifting. I'm guessing that it won't ever go back to quite what it was before, but I'm open to being surprised.

I've played all the content involving Marc. At most he manipulates her, because he knows how trusting she is. Making someone do something, implies that you can force them to do it, in whatever circumstances.

I would say that you're trying to define the use of this term too narrowly. In the strictest sense, it can mean making someone do something can mean using force to compel them, even when they refuse. In the loosest sense, it can mean simply manipulating them to do something they don't really want to do. Or it can mean a number of things in between, such as drugging someone and maneuvering them to do something when they aren't in full control of themselves, or using hypnosis or other mind control to overpower their wills, or using blackmail to coerce them to do things they don't want to do without the use of physical force.

Any and all of these things would count as making someone do something, as that term is commonly used. In some of those scenarios, that person would be absolved of responsibility for doing the thing. In other cases, they would share responsibility for going along with it.

Maybe manipulation is a form of control, but it's not exactly dominance either. If Marc was truly dominant, he wouldn't need to lie and cheat Myriam, to get his way. And it's obvious Marc doesn't really believe that he's controlling Myriam, because he gives up so easily, whenever she challenges him. That's why it's illusionary, he cannot stand up to her. Yeah, when she goes along with it, Marc acts like the total dominant he'd like to be. But the moment she says no, and means it, he caves every time.

I don't remember anyone ever claiming in this thread that Marc is a good dominant. There are all sorts of versions of bad dominants, from doms who don't care about the wellbeing of their subs, to doms whose dominance is only skin deep. Anthony was a bad dom in the sense of not really caring about Myriam at all. Marc is a bad dom in the sense of being mostly show (at least for now). In the end, I don't care that much about Marc's dominance. I care more about Myriam's submissiveness.

That being said, I'll continue to maintain that it isn't correct that Marc was only ever dominant because Myriam allowed it and liked it. And, as for Marc always immediately giving in if she stands up to him, I'll say again that this has only been since he made the mistake of talking about trying to corrupt Katherine. That was too much for her, and so she snapped back, which took him by surprise. Basically, Marc ran into Katherine's plot armor. Zorlun has repeatedly made it clear that a central point of the story is Myriam's love and protection of her daughter, and Katherine's purity and love of her mother.

Sometimes I'm wondering if players are reading and viewing a VN, or attempting to rewrite it.

When people are really interested in something, they discuss it. That's a major part of what this thread is for. Perhaps you only come here to see previews and download updates to the game, but others also come to talk about the game. You don't have to participate, if you don't want to do so.

 

[TheLecher]

That's not true. She gets angry when he makes a crude joke about Katherine and Jennifer, and makes him apologise. Then later at school she stops him bullying Jonas, after Marc realises he's been listening to them having sex, in the adjoining toilet cubicle.

Her telling him to apologize to Katherine isn't a valid argument against him having control over her. Telling him to apologize in front of other people is obviously a very different thing from what happens when they're alone together. And as for her stopping him from bullying Jonas, that's a player choice, so it's not true in all cases.

I don't think we're going to agree on this point. We're beginning to go around and around, so we might as well get off the ride, at this point.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

When people are really interested in something, they discuss it. That's a major part of what this thread is for. Perhaps you only come here to see previews and download updates to the game, but others also come to talk about the game. You don't have to participate, if you don't want to do so.

Much as I'd like to carry on with this discussion. They are making a valid point. It's against the rules of this forum to have long, convoluted conversations, which kind of take over the thread. I'm guilty of this as much as anyone. I do like a good argument, as long as it's good-natured, but I think we should maybe put this one to rest, before Zorlun has to insist. Which is probably imminent. People will always have differing opinions, so I think we should agree to disagree on this particular aspect of the game.

 

[DIRTY FILTHY Animal]

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Preview Scene - Chapter 4 - Date Night with Charles
Here comes the new preview for the coming double update, second iteration of the "Date Night" branching, which will this time follow Myriam during her date with Charles. Taking place on his yacht, the scene will revolve around Myriam having some nautical fun with Charles and with a little discreet mention of a coming plot line revolving around him.Â
On the naughty side, there will be a possibility again if the player decide to push further, with Myriam showing some gratitude before the two have another intense session over the deck of the yacht.Â
And now, about the poll and how the updates of Q4 will go, with 58% vote for the half and half (5% for the as usual, 30% for the big one and 7% for our Obi Wan), the clear winner is for two double updates, one for September/October and one for November/December. So next update will arrive end of October for the early access and a week later for the public one, but as usual, I'll keep you posted as I go, thank you all for your continuous support and for giving your opinion, Myriam send you all her love. xoxo

 

[ouch2020]

This is all hypothetical of course, because none of this may ever happen.

Well, I think this is in reality the main point, although with a slightly different nuance.

What I mean is, for your Myriam, will never happen even if Zorlun allowed. For others, it may happen, if Zorlun allows it.

By now, the Myriam, and in part, the Marc of each player, can have changed and "evolved" so much, that many things that were true at the start, may not be valid anymore, time in the game is not real time (aside the fact is only a game, so it can take some liberties in some things).

 

[TheLecher]

When she was a girl, Myriam had a kind of sexual relationship with her brother, so she's no stranger to having incestuous desires.

Hopefully, not only in the past. Hopefully, also in the future. And with her father, too. But we'll have to wait and see.