- Nov 3, 2018
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Unity ProjectR [v0.4.0.2] [Team-Apple Pie]
- Thread starter Ω Nelo Angelo Ω
- Start date
They are indeed for breeding, I agree completely. But from a practical standpoint, they aren't worth using for anything other than nursing, or transferring stats to human women. I'm eager to see how the devs combat this. If the rest of what little development for this game we've seen so far is any indicator, I'm sure they'll figure something out. But as of right now, they are born for seggs.
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- Nov 3, 2018
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Certainly, 'for now' the shortstacks aren't really worth it to be put as combatant. Because 'current version' didn't really have much feature. Everything is just core structures of something
I do expect each unit(s); aside from personality(upcoming version), would have some kind of at least a [Team Buffs or Self-Passives(Like ###% ATK up for party, or Self Resist Long Range ###%)] or [Special Auto-Active Skill(Sister's Healing for example)], or both. Not necessarily exact thing, but something akin to that.
I do expect each unit(s); aside from personality(upcoming version), would have some kind of at least a [Team Buffs or Self-Passives(Like ###% ATK up for party, or Self Resist Long Range ###%)] or [Special Auto-Active Skill(Sister's Healing for example)], or both. Not necessarily exact thing, but something akin to that.
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I wonder if we will be able to put monmusu on the pedestals? I guess the consideration would be what they would do. If I had a choice, I would make regular women have a chance to "capture" invading monsters. Sisters would heal, as aforementioned. Maybe the Monmusu would grant Stat buffs? Like the Oni could give an attack buff, and the shortstack could give crit chance or something.
Dang, I'm getting more and more excited now. As much as I can't wait to get my hands on it, waiting will make the updates quality even better.
- May 3, 2018
- 1,152
- 1,290
Thanks to the sacrifice Mod, I had the opportunity to enjoy the game without the unevoidable death trough enemies crashing my castle by using Cheat engine.
So the main focus was on breeding and collecting my harem/army.
Got some goblins with 4-5 perks and so the girls. Didn't figured it out yet, what really triggers the transfer of the perks to the offspring. Like mating Goblin and woman with high perks and still got offspring with lower/lesser perks.
How much triggers the breastfeeding? Should I also let them breastfeed from slave/shortstacks in order to give them an advance in their stats, or is this just a thing between father and mother?
Nonetheless, this was my longest playtrough yet. I messed up at the end by just skipping the day to often and then got overrunned by the enemies, which couldn't destroy my castle, but killed my whole squad.
Lucky me, I have save spots before I've messed up big time.
So the main focus was on breeding and collecting my harem/army.
Got some goblins with 4-5 perks and so the girls. Didn't figured it out yet, what really triggers the transfer of the perks to the offspring. Like mating Goblin and woman with high perks and still got offspring with lower/lesser perks.
How much triggers the breastfeeding? Should I also let them breastfeed from slave/shortstacks in order to give them an advance in their stats, or is this just a thing between father and mother?
Nonetheless, this was my longest playtrough yet. I messed up at the end by just skipping the day to often and then got overrunned by the enemies, which couldn't destroy my castle, but killed my whole squad.
Lucky me, I have save spots before I've messed up big time.
I made a French translation for those who are interested. to paste directly into the root folder of the game.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your message, but if I'm understanding correctlyThanks to the sacrifice Mod, I had the opportunity to enjoy the game without the unevoidable death trough enemies crashing my castle by using Cheat engine.
So the main focus was on breeding and collecting my harem/army.
Got some goblins with 4-5 perks and so the girls. Didn't figured it out yet, what really triggers the transfer of the perks to the offspring. Like mating Goblin and woman with high perks and still got offspring with lower/lesser perks.
How much triggers the breastfeeding? Should I also let them breastfeed from slave/shortstacks in order to give them an advance in their stats, or is this just a thing between father and mother?
Nonetheless, this was my longest playtrough yet. I messed up at the end by just skipping the day to often and then got overrunned by the enemies, which couldn't destroy my castle, but killed my whole squad.
Lucky me, I have save spots before I've messed up big time.
Generally speaking, 4-5 stats is not so terribly necessary. Stats seem more likely to inherit if you have fewer of them and is practically certain if both parents share one stat.
The only two stats you should prioritize raising are Health and Damage.
The best way to raise these stats is to have a single woman with only a Health or only a Damage boost breed with goblins that have the same stat. Breed the babies of those parents with their matching mothers. This leads to a lot of inbreeding to boost the stats. After your gates are stable, you can do the same with other stats like sex time or growth rate, etc.
While your stats are being raised through breeding, have a lot of lesser goblins guard the gates.
Shortstacks aren't good for fighting because they cost too much to deploy. Instead you can breed a shortstack with your Human Male to breed either a human woman or another shortstack. If you get a shortstack with a high stat, you can breed her to get a woman who will also get that high stat, breed this woman with your goblins to grow stronger faster, since they should have a higher stat than the previous mother.
All babies need to breastfeed to grow up, but breastfeeding doesn't improve their stats. Best to use excess shortstacks or women with bad stats. I've never needed more than eight lactation rooms, but 6 should be plenty. Add more if you need them.
Regardless, I'm glad your enjoying the game too.
- May 3, 2018
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- Aug 5, 2020
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You can't without modding the game. Either you do the messy thing of changing all women/sister to monmusu, which causes them to be unable to breed with Zombies, or you do something like what I did and drop a script into the script folder/rewrite the .dll file to allow slaves to join the fight.
I probably should just put a link to this in my signature or something.
- Nov 3, 2018
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Even though we did, people still seems to be missing it, OFTEN. So now, I've MADE IT BIGGER.
The problem with a simple deployment cost change is that they are still effectively identical to the ranged goblins. They are both single-target ranged damage dealers, with the only differences just being basic numbers. This means that there will always be an optimal choice between Shortstacks and archer gobbos.
I elaborated on this in an earlier post of mine in this thread, but ultimately it's practically impossible to tweak a few numbers to get some meaningful choices between different options. Either an imbalance exists between things in which case there's an objectively better choice, or they get the balance perfectly on that knife edge which then makes the actual decision completely meaningless as there's no functional difference between the options.
So they need to somehow give them some kind of niche or new set of mechanics in order to make them more useful. They could play around with the party mechanics by giving them some kind of leadership skills. Alternatively, they could do something fancy in terms of combat mechanics, such as letting their projectiles hit multiple targets or giving them significantly higher range. I'm pretty sure this is also why they reworked the upcoming orcs; orcs having a jump attack means they don't compete with goblins as a general melee unit, so even if they are weaker in a direct conflict they bring their own advantages to the board.
Wouldn't leaving at the orcs having their leap render Melee goblins almost completely obsolete? The only advantage to them over Orcs would be deployment cost, but depending on stat distribution, it might not matter. The only solution I can think of would be the ability to switch specifically goblins between Melee and Archery. That way, you can keep Melee goblins for the early game, but then switch off to archers when you get Orcs while not leaving a potential third of your units obsolete.
Also, comparing shortstacks to archers isn't a 1-1. The shortstacks fire more slowly than regular archers, but have better stats. But a shortstack is more likely to flinch before they can shoot, meaning that they aren't as good as archers since regular archers can fight back in Melee combat.
I suppose it was a "single devastating shot" type situation, but the gain isn't worth the cost when well bred archers can fire just as hard, and also fire faster.
I suppose it was a "single devastating shot" type situation, but the gain isn't worth the cost when well bred archers can fire just as hard, and also fire faster.
Having a jump attack for orcs would then allow them to be weaker in a straight up fight than an equivalent deployment of goblins while still being balanced. Players could choose between maximising their direct combat power with goblins, which then runs the risk of taking a lot of damage against ranged enemies (doubly so if they come with heavy knockback, although you can breed resistance to that), while orcs would be weaker in a melee slugging match but would be a more effective as a counter against ranged units. Having a choice between a jump attack vs raw combat power makes for an actual tactical choice as they would be better in different situations. Ideally, you would want all units to actually be useful, rather than being obsoleted by other units you get later.
However, the point is that the values are simply numerical and not even to the point where it pushes things to weird extremes to create new niches. Even if the devs were to fudge the SS numbers to keep them viable once the inbreeding modifiers start, they would still be very much occupying the same strategic niche of a simple ranged damage dealer. For a given amount of breeding, there will always be a singular optimal choice between ranged goblins and ShortStacks for a given amount of deployment cap.
If they wanted to make SSs into the high-alpha damage unit, then they would need to lean far more into that role as currently it is. Unless it can somewhat reliably 1-shot some enemies or they add extra combat mechanics that interact with damage per hit (such as flat damage reduction, rapid regeneration or some kind of massive damage threshold effect, for example), every fight will just turn into a DPS and HP focused brawl. To use an FPS analogy, there's little point adding another full-auto assault rifle if you already have one in the game as it doesn't actually add any additional tactical options, you would be much better off making the new rifle some kind of bolt-action anti-materiel rifle or just making something completely different like a shotgun, sword or grenade launcher.
- Nov 3, 2018
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Considering how the current development is. I would expect the orcs to be costly; but I wouldn't brush off the game system's upgrade and they would be very vulnerable during the leap when it comes to incoming attack, but this is ORC we're discussing about, they're mostly, by standard, very bulky and definitely not lightweight.
But hey, if a sister had some kind of "Barrier Skill". They might just bounced off, at least in MOST fantasy stories I've read...
But hey, if a sister had some kind of "Barrier Skill". They might just bounced off, at least in MOST fantasy stories I've read...
I suppose we will find out soon enough. The release date range is coming up and I'm sure everyone in this thread is all too eager to see what wonders the developers will share with us. At the very least, ally unit healing and a new monster are coming, and that's already plenty.
I mean, they can also mess with how ranges work. Shortstacks could still attack slower but have a greater range so they can actually strike before any enemy. That and you can mess with how knockback might affect things. And later on you can deal with AoE and other effects (buff/debuff/etc). Also cost is currently a trait in files but not added to any wave (you could modify the character files to include it in their range). So Orcs might leap into combat with an AoE slam before going into slow AoE sweeps later on.
Also, another angle is targeting priority. If Shortstacks preferred to hit healers>ranged>melee, and Goblin Archers chose melee>ranged>healers. That or innate damage bonuses (either multipliers or just additive). Sure, you can breed a better Ranged Any unit to be 1 cost/effectively infinite damage. . . But when you are in a rush or trying to push some ending/event that requires a relatively strict Time cost (like a hidden ending/best ending/character capture) those things start mattering more.
The final angles I can think of is capture chances or synergies. Like having Goblin Melee, Goblin Ranged, and Shortstack together in the same party causes like a 25% increase in captures. Orc group cause 25% more melee damage. Get enough cost down/upgrades to your stockades and you can have every synergy up and running in the same party late game.
We aren't entirely sure on how in-depth they will get, or the direction the team wants to go; beyond the inkling of Orcs having a leap and doing something with the stockades to include healing.
Edit: I should also note I'm very fine with multiple units being viable, but some being poor choices. Just like people wanting to do a PC breeding only challenge run, it being viable but not very doable is great compared to just brain drain 1 cost(if we can get it) high damage ranged goblins spam requiring much less effort.
Also, another angle is targeting priority. If Shortstacks preferred to hit healers>ranged>melee, and Goblin Archers chose melee>ranged>healers. That or innate damage bonuses (either multipliers or just additive). Sure, you can breed a better Ranged Any unit to be 1 cost/effectively infinite damage. . . But when you are in a rush or trying to push some ending/event that requires a relatively strict Time cost (like a hidden ending/best ending/character capture) those things start mattering more.
The final angles I can think of is capture chances or synergies. Like having Goblin Melee, Goblin Ranged, and Shortstack together in the same party causes like a 25% increase in captures. Orc group cause 25% more melee damage. Get enough cost down/upgrades to your stockades and you can have every synergy up and running in the same party late game.
We aren't entirely sure on how in-depth they will get, or the direction the team wants to go; beyond the inkling of Orcs having a leap and doing something with the stockades to include healing.
Edit: I should also note I'm very fine with multiple units being viable, but some being poor choices. Just like people wanting to do a PC breeding only challenge run, it being viable but not very doable is great compared to just brain drain 1 cost(if we can get it) high damage ranged goblins spam requiring much less effort.