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Great job at explaining Val's and Naho's characters in such great detail. Maybe after this some people would understand that you can't just be nice to everyone. Some characters are irredeemable scumbags who answer with poison to kindness.
- Dec 26, 2018
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A common debate among comic book fans is, "If X and Y were to clash, who would win?"
Stan Lee replied, "Whoever the storyteller wants to win the fight will win."
I see your point, but developers can create an alternative route if they want. For example: recruiting a wolf pack is not compulsory. Defeating Naho can be skipped. Suppose, in the process of conquest, we can offer them an alliance. Naho is not a good leader, but she is not stupid. She'd probably take it, especially if we'd already subjugated everyone else and, say, offered them the lowlands in return.
Since I'm not writing the story, it's all hypothetical. I'm just saying that it can be done if the writers want to do it.
I get what you are saying, but I'm saying that doing that would essentially ruin the character and wouldn't be believable. It would just be out of character. Naho isn't stupid, per se but she is blinded by her own pride and belief of how things should be. She would never align with the dragon and if she did, she would without a doubt be planning to betray us. Because in her eyes, The dragon is worst than then the mercenaries and other city folk. She can't just stop hating the dragon and get along with him. It's a core part of her belief and character. The only way to get her as a consort is to break her, break her bonds, and break her self-image. She doesn't stay with you because she loves you, regardless of how nice you are to her she still hates you. And why shouldn't she? You literally had her tortured because she never gave in to you and never stopped hating you.
If it was just a game with dragons and magic, then I wouldn't have bothered. But the game is complex and has great lore and imprecations that the players can learn if they pay attention to it. That's what makes this game so good, it melds story and lewd stuff together seamlessly, with neither taking away from the other.Too much reasoning for a game with dragons and magic
To be fair, they are somewhat right about the nature of most dragons. I think the reason why our dragon is such an aberration is because of the fusion of a mortal mind with the Sun's essence. We still have our cravings but it's up to us whether we are completely ruled by them. We can resist them, but it's still a part of us and something we are going to indulge in. If we didn't, we wouldn't have any consult, allies, or treasure.
Val and Nah have good reason to still treat you like shit, We did basically abduct them and treat them as gloried sex slaves. But they are also clear threats that we recognized and conquered. Valzira was going to interfere after a while, even though only Mael and Heloise were sent to stop you. I love the dynamic of hatred between Val and the dragon. I like Val, in general, she is so easy to hate and dislike. She isn't some female villain who deserves pity or wasn't a bad person. Whatever made her this way might have sucked but she still choose to act on all her nefarious whims. She doesn't have any qualities that really make you feel sympathetic for her, she couldn't beg or grovel if her life depended on it. Instead, she threatens, insults, and spits her harmless venom. Out of every one of the captives, she deserves pretty much every bad fate she gets. Not once will she ever regret or think back on her actions? She will only focus on how the world wronged her and why she didn't kill the dragon. She shit-talks Issa for bemoaning their place in the world, but she's the exact same when she converses with Marie-Anne. An interaction I loved because the 'dumb cow farmgirl' flip her ideas back at her and pointed out her own hypocrisy.
For someone as intelligent as she claimed to be, she never realizes that she is just as much a pawn to the moon goddess (and pale convocation) as Maelys and Heloise. Or maybe she does and it's all just grandstanding at this point. I hope we eventually have Consort Heloise or Redemped Mal interact with Val, I really want to learn more about her.
Sorry for stretching this out,Val is just one of those characters you love to see get the snobbiness kicked out of her.
Time heals all wounds. While it is understandable for them to remain furious at the dragon for a good, long while following their capture, if the dragon does nothing but treat them (sternly but) fairly following their capture, I have hope that they might one day change their minds. If anything, is Valzira going to stay put in her cell, lashing out at every opportunity for next next—how long do elves live?—five centuries or so? At some point anyone would just run out of energy. I suppose one could view this approach as another form of “breaking”, but I still find it preferable by far.
There’s also the fact that the dragon isn’t the only factor; there are the other captives as well, who could do their part in mollifying Naho or Valzira. Marie-Anne already has a few interactions with the latter (of which I am very fond) which hint at the possibility of making peace with her, and there could be even more; Héloïse—who has already demonstrated a certain willingness to help Maëlys out of her shell—could help with the effort as well.
(Picture a scene where the dragon has Valzira’s bindings removed; she instantly tries to manipulate him, but is unexpectedly stopped by Héloïse, who, as you brought up, calls to her attention that they were being manipulated by the Pale Convocation anyway, etc. Maybe she has to be put back into restraints for the time being, but now she can mull over this new information, all the while being reminded of the dragon’s relative goodwill (he could have killed her for her attempt on his life, but chose not to).)
I’m always in favour of more bonding between harem members, and eventually, this could lead to a situation where, even if Naho and Valzira still have a sore spot for the dragon, their relationship with the other girls serves to keep them in check.
That’s one point where I wish the game let us be kinder; I think Mina’s is the only relationship you can meaningfully improve without having sex with her, and I personally would like to be able to do more for the harem girls that didn’t involve sex—bringing them gifts, improving their living conditions, spending time with them (inviting them to the baths, etc.), and so on. That’s just my preference, but even in a slave game like this, given the chance I’d rather win the girls over beforehand.
Bruh. She'll just mock Heloise for being a pussy, and for submitting to a dragon.
At this point, you're trying to roleplay as an average neckbeard.
The only things left to do are find a fedora, and adress every female as m'lady.
IDK, she looked genuinely shocked when Marie-Anne defended the dragon on account of his treating her well, and expressed regret for berating her. Seems to me like there’s the potential for redemption there.Bruh. She'll just mock Heloise for being a pussy, and for submitting to a dragon.
Do neckbears act like that? Maybe that’s the internet meme, but I know a couple neckbeards in real life, and they aren’t close to being that considerate towards women.At this point, you're trying to roleplay as an average neckbeard.
The only things left to do are find a fedora, and adress every female as m'lady.
In any case, there might be a superficial resemblance, but I also feel as though there’s a significant distinction, which is that of power: a nice guy™ will be on his best behaviour in the hopes that women will deign reciprocate with sex (though in his mind he believes it is owed him); on the other hand, in the skin of the dragon, I can and will get sex from the girls—when I choose—only I would rather they be into it. Moreover, it’s a power fantasy to treat my kept women to luxuries and fine things (and women are into it too, looking at the success of Fifty Shades of Grey); I’m under the impression that neckbeards don’t often actually have anything of worth to offer.
You wanting these things make you miss the point of what you are.You aren't a hero or some benign creature. it is in your nature to dominate, to take, to conquer and rule. You are greedy and possessive. While you can be merciful to those that bend the knee, you would still naturally kill any who challenged your rule or disrespected you. It's possible to resist you nature and do good, but ultimately you and I know it's for your own benefit. The dragon is clever as they are powerful. That is shown time and time again, if you weren't you'd be dead by now.
I don't know how long Elf's live but I imagine it is a very, very long time. Valzira isn't changing my friend, even if the moon goddess herself came down and told her to forgive you she most likely would deny and resist it. Your "goodwill" is kidnapping her and keeping her captive then bringing people around that she loathes or uses to respect. Mainly the first. She hates you, she hates you on a fundamental level just for being a dragon. She always has a low opinion of men and dragons are pretty much the personification of all of man's negative traits. Time does not heal all wounds, sometimes they fester and rot. And the longer lived you are, the more stubborn and set in your ways you become. Being nice to her isn't going to change the face that you are who you are and you kidnapped her. If you didn't do that though she'd never agree to being by your side, unless it was to stab you in the back. Like dude, I say this a lot, but she LOATHES you. There is never a possibility of you two ever getting along. One of you must break and Valzira is damn near unbreakable in her ideals.
Mae and Heloise were already tired of their endless servitude, they either denied it or just didn't know it. Mae is the most broken of the three elves because she was constantly sent out again and again against dragons, losing her elven strength and purity each time she lost. Which are basically their souls, I don't like to think about it but their existence really sucks. Their very beings are tied to the goddess of the moon and they aren't able to live freely.
The dragon is also kinda tragic to they extent that he can't really control himself and has to conquer, devour, and rule. He is a ravager (See what I did there?) by nature.
Mae already held doubts and contempt for her lot in life, but she continued to do it anyway because that was the only purpose she saw for herself. Heloise was deprived as well and both we constantly sent out like foot soldiers. We still don't know Val's full story, but based on all her interactions so far I don't get the impression she'll ever fall for us or tolerate us. I know you want them to like you and get all buddy-buddy with you but that would be like spitting in the face of the game and it's characters if she did. If there's anything this game does well is that it respects it's characters. All their actions and decisions make sense to the character. Like Mina who understands that it's a give-and-take with the dragon and she benefits more than the dragon does in that relationship. The dragon gets his dick wet but she gets to be a Countess of Bastion, if she gets impregnated she can just give the babies to someone like Marie-Anneoror or Enid to take care of. A lot of Consorts essentially have Stockholm syndrome because you treat them a lot better than you were. But make no mistake, you did either kidnap them or have them agree to be sex slaves after they lose everything (Mina with the mercs). Darja is the only exception but she's basically kinda off her rocker/intensely focused on her fantasies.
Of course, no one playing games like these wants to entertain those thoughts. I just understand the situation and enjoy this great game because it's great. The world of Ravager is cruel and there are worst fates than being locked up by a dragon who fancies you.
Pretty much this. The saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" did not come out of nowhere.
I see your point, although I still can’t help but hope for some sort of resolution to both their questlines that wouldn’t be so horrible.
As a final point, I will say this: I’m not asking for Valzira to turn into a “lovey-dovey wife” (although if the writers managed to pull it off convincingly, you won’t see me complaining) or anything like that; but when you say:
that makes me think it shouldn’t be impossible to get them to accept their new lot in life.
Moreover, on the note of the dragon being a natural conqueror: it’s one thing to impose one’s will on others through force, but (to me at least) it’s much more rewarding to persuade them—not only is it a bigger challenge, but it’s also preferable in the long term; a subject is always at risk of revolting, but an ally won’t jump at the first opportunity to turn traitor. I see being “kind” to harem members in much the same way: real harems were often rife with murder and other nasty side-effects of the plots for power that took place there; the dragon is possessive and insatiable, but he doesn’t have the time to deal with that shit: keeping harem members happy and fostering a sentiment of sisterhood among them means 1. no scheming behind his back, and 2. none of his trophies get murdered.
Or IDK, maybe I just watch too many kids’ cartoons …
“The power of friendship will save the day!”
I think it would be pretty boring and underwhelming if naho and valzira's entire purpose is be angry and get graped. Like if thats it for them why even keep them? its a storyline dead end and is a waste imo for these characters. Now im not saying I need valzira or naho to confess their love for the dragon and walk into the sunset but what I am saying is I want more from these characters then just walking into their room and being called a knob. Overall stuff is being set up for them least tolerating the dragons existence or even begrudgingly assisting them. Valzira being told off by marie-ann which exposes her hypocrisy and flaws in her logic and naho's interest in leading the wolf pack again.
P.S It would be pretty sick to see naho going to war with her new Wolf/dragon babies as her new pack getting her revenge on the wolf pack...just saying
P.P.S if valzira can't stop being a bitch I require and humbly beseech the great 4mw for the almighty dragon bitch slap feature as a good common ground for each side please and thank you.
P.S It would be pretty sick to see naho going to war with her new Wolf/dragon babies as her new pack getting her revenge on the wolf pack...just saying
P.P.S if valzira can't stop being a bitch I require and humbly beseech the great 4mw for the almighty dragon bitch slap feature as a good common ground for each side please and thank you.
Last edited:
- Oct 7, 2017
- 184
- 88
Whoa, virus?Replace the 5.0.7 launcher with the 5.0.6 one and you can play the game without Steam.
Nice name to use.
No wonder he can make, he was german.
No racist but... "YOU FOOL!!! GERMAN IS THE BEST OF THE WORLD!! EVEN SCIENCE CAN, WHY NOT TECHNOLOGY!!!"
Thx for reading, try to joke here.