Warscared

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Jan 26, 2021
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so Archon just like princeps is just a title... can there be extremely powerful lonely wolfs high generation but 0 social rank kind of assholes around? and i mean dudes like the MC with no title and hidden in plain sight or just out of others vision? are there seers to keep control over vast areas?

i can imagine 4 or 5 of those dudes getting together to overthrow the establishment in a kind of you left me to die now pay the price you scumbags kind of way? just like in Greek mythology Zeus going around fucking everything that moved on 2 legs and quite a few of those that moved on 4 in accordance to myth...
 

D3xzalias

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Aug 1, 2018
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MC is very killable, just not by a chump like Marcius. There are powerful pieces moving on the chessboard, we have to see what becomes of our very potent pawn..
Pto knows what he is doing i highly doubt he would make MC OP. And with how rebirth is going i don't even think we have lifted the lid far enough to know whats coming. And even Fabian said there are more elders that want to drink him dry if they found out she made a childe. So there are some powerfull things in the rebirth universe
 
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Whatevercounts

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Sep 27, 2020
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I dont know if the developer reads this thread, but anyways:

In the last year, ive one-handedly (heh) scouered this forum for new games beyond the first couple of sites of the "most liked games" page.

"Rebirth" is one of the diamonds in the rough, and ive enjoyed the content so far immensely.
I hope your game fares well, and gets the recognition it deserves.
 

Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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I dont know if the developer reads this thread, but anyways:

In the last year, ive one-handedly (heh) scouered this forum for new games beyond the first couple of sites of the "most liked games" page.

"Rebirth" is one of the diamonds in the rough, and ive enjoyed the content so far immensely.
I hope your game fares well, and gets the recognition it deserves.
they may or may not read this, I think if they did they would yell at us for invoking the inspirational material so much lol, but I can certainly pass along your good wishes on the Patreon Page.
I have passed on love and wishes for success just now and I agree Ayhsel as I am sure they would be expressing their laughter at our theory mongering
 

Ayhsel

Chocolate Vampire
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they may or may not read this, I think if they did they would yell at us for invoking the inspirational material so much lol, but I can certainly pass along your good wishes on the Patreon Page.
I have a very very strong belief they don't.
 

Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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Ok, so now that I am thinking on it, I really want a throw down with Marcius and his thugs, then assert myself as the Archon of that Domain which will also rule over Scottstown for the Princeps. This will allow me to take Zephyr to be mine, which is my primary motivation lol. I rank the girls for my vampire power structure harem as follows
Top Tier-Vampires that are bound to me:
Kassandra, Sharon, Zephyr. Calisto will never allow me to do that to her or Cindy so they are off the list, especially since I will be part of Calisto's structure which will be a part of Artemis' structure. Cindy would be a nice coupe though. The Red Head that sits in the court would be ok, but I think my last slot would be filled by Astrid the unliving toilet. Have her flesh craft herself into a toilet which my beautiful thralls use regularly..... ah yes....
Thralls-
Laurie, Mirri, Carmen. They will run my daytime operations.
After I get my extremely vulgar base fucking out of the way, I will regularly have a bottle of a mix of all my ladies so I feel loyalty to them but not bound. (Vaulderie of a sort)
Peace
 

Raptus Puellae

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Mar 23, 2020
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Ok, so now that I am thinking on it, I really want a throw down with Marcius and his thugs, then assert myself as the Archon of that Domain which will also rule over Scottstown for the Princeps. This will allow me to take Zephyr to be mine, which is my primary motivation lol.
Zephyr should join. and the more I think about it, the fight would be the perfect opportunity to show who's MC's sire. episodes 3 could be all about dealing with the fallback of that revelation, the elders evenif they would want to snack on MC would still need an excuse to pass it as punishment, maybe a breach of secrecy or a botched mission.

Calisto will never allow me to do that to her or Cindy so they are off the list, especially since I will be part of Calisto's structure which will be a part of Artemis' structure. Cindy would be a nice coupe though.
Cindy once she finds out who MC is will be like... "heeey do you want to hold hands? Maybe enthrall me?"
 

RustyCooter

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Apr 5, 2020
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So what is the process of turning someone into a vampire in the rebirth story. As far as I remember it never says anything about the process of doing it. Only how enthrallment works. Haven't seen it mentioned in the threads either. Please excuse my vampire noobness. Although I have learned alot in this thread from the vamp phd folks like Arigon and such.
 

Raptus Puellae

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Mar 23, 2020
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So what is the process of turning someone into a vampire in the rebirth story. As far as I remember it never says anything about the process of doing it. Only how enthrallment works. Haven't seen it mentioned in the threads either. Please excuse my vampire noobness. Although I have learned alot in this thread from the vamp phd folks like Arigon and such.
vampire drains the human and feeds him/her vampire blood. The blood must be fed directly from the vampire, save for special rituals.
 

Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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^^^^^
that up there
There is at least one magical method, which involved blood magic by a bunch of human mages who were losing their magi abilities due to the rise of christianity and it's adverse effect on magic and the influence of the "Old Gods" and other things.
It still involved a vampire.... granted a very unhappy vampire... who was destroyed in the process, but it was a great deal. All told the entire Tremere line would not exist if not from that ritual.
Another ritual took one or more vampires and rendered them down into a larva, which grew into a Gargoyle. Gargoyles are specialized vampires which are basically war machines which helped the Tremere survive the ensuing vamp war which their creation and encroachment caused.
Other than the original curse from the sky god of the proto hebrew folk, which cursed the 3rd human to become a vampire, then all the rest were presumably created by the above method. There are some juicy stories which blends vamps with some Fey blood and other things, but for the 99 percent see above.
 
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Arigon

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Kiyasad (Fey mixed Lasombra bloodline) Baali are part demon part vampire several varieties of undead wraith blended vampires. All are bloodlines created by methods other than strictly embracing the next generation, at least for the founders of those lines. For those who are wondering that is
:D
 
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Raptus Puellae

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Another ritual took one or more vampires and rendered them down into a larva, which grew into a Gargoyle. Gargoyles are specialized vampires which are basically war machines which helped the Tremere survive the ensuing vamp war which their creation and encroachment caused.
fun fact... the MC in Peasant's quest impregnates 3 vampires... the offsprings are born as gargoyles
 
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Ayhsel

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I think ( and am probably alone in this) that Astrid is a shape crafted Tzimisce and is male
I suggested Tzimisce as a potential candidate for her, so I can support that idea. You are indeed alone in Astrid being male, though. It would not only not make people happy, there would be a lot of backlash with very little benefit to the story.
 

Arigon

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I suggested Tzimisce as a potential candidate for her, so I can support that idea. You are indeed alone in Astrid being male, though. It would not only not make people happy, there would be a lot of backlash with very little benefit to the story.
I keep coming back to the wonderings of Artemis if the MC will be powerful enough to defeat HIM. No way is that Marcius. He is cat food. If Astrid is a 6th gen Tzimisce then it would be a very horrific fight. And if she is a he, but is fully transformed, there shouldn't be blow back, we all need to be woke ya know? LBGT with emphasis on T here would be highly relevant in today's society, would add to the story, since Vampires are not sexual creatures, though they are sensual, and it could add a lot to the story! (and not for nothing, transformation is one of the listings for this story!!!!)
:D
 

fea876

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Nov 24, 2018
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I suggested Tzimisce as a potential candidate for her, so I can support that idea. You are indeed alone in Astrid being male, though. It would not only not make people happy, there would be a lot of backlash with very little benefit to the story.
She is an antagonist and if you end up fucking her and you end up learning after she's a man. The antagonist part will be reinforced like with Lt Lois Einhorn.
 
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There is absolutely no in-story evidence to support the hypothesis that Astrid is a man. It's entirely based on wild speculation that Astrid might be a Tzimisce fleshcrafter which would open up the possibility that Astrid could change her gender characteristics if she were. And quite frankly it's not a possibility that interests me at all, so until there is the slightest bit of evidence that supports it I will cheerfully point out that it's just wild speculation built on top of already wild speculation.
 

Akifai

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May 8, 2017
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I do think Calisto gets a warform of a Bear.

"Warform," is that something that some clans get? What exactly is it? Well, outside of the obvious in being an actual form to go into battle with. Is it very powerfuf, and comparable to a werewolf?

In the bloodlines game, vampire seems to be scared shitless when it comes to werewolves. If Calisto has a warform, then the MC should have one too right? Is his also a bear? Last question, why a bear? This lore stuff is very interesting.
 
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mistwolf_2k

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May 18, 2020
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You may not be crazy about the idea, but Astrid remains a possibility.
So we already know that Astrid and Sharon had a falling out. Where that premise falls flat is that Astrid is trying to take down Sharon, first with the Archon's help and then sending hunters in. That doesn't seem much like the typical sire behavior. I mean it is possible, but they would have had a serious spat for it to come to that. She would gain nothing by offing her own progeny.
 

Ayhsel

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Gangrel get two forms with their basic protean abilities. One is their fight/war form, the other is their flight/run away form. This is basic ability. Later, and yes I believe it is 6th or lower, they get a scarier form on par with the Zulo. In any case, the term Warform is coined here as a form that enhances the vampire for combat purposes. Gangrels are vicious with their claws in human or war form. What is interesting is that only Gangrel get to choose something other than wolf and bat for their protean ability. Other clans that somehow pick that up will have wolf and bat. I think the rationale in that, is that it is wired into their imaginations and or mentally that they can only assume those forms, where as Gangrel can choose. Yet they only get 1 battle form and 1 run away form. The two forms originate from the beast instinct of fight or flight and flight does not HAVE to be a bat or bird, it could be some kind of other form that is an escape form(for Gangrel)

Referring back to Fabian, I certainly did not mean to assert that he is ancient like Calisto. The scene the MC sees is clearly middle/dark ages and he is a knight. That probably fits his approximate time of turning. The only other vampire we have a hint of real age about so far is Virgil whose name is Plubius, or at least he offers as much to Sharon. That is definitely Roman time frame in terms of naming.

Clans vs Bloodlines can certainly get messy. And yes it is my own head canon at the moment that Astrid represents a differing pantheon as Astrid is a prevalent Norse name in their mythology. It would also be a very nice step away from VTM to have the vampires rooted in the differing pantheons, so that appeals to me. The very fact that Sharon dismisses both Fabian and his Thaumaturges along with the Pagan cult is so very Sharon like, I find myself amused.

Astrid being the current "evil" that we have to go on, it is natural to speculate on her origin and her power level. Vision Girl being who she appears to be, is likely to be very unkindly disposed to anyone who means harm to her plans, and thus I am thinking that she might have been working on this (including the MC embrace) for a while. Kassandra is not a name thrown about lightly, nor are any of the steadily growing list of Greco-Roman names. It is easy to conceive of Kassandra's role in this to be one of screening and recommending candidates for the next Calisto childe.

So to overly complicate things is probably a mistake, and to over simplify also seems to be a mistake.
What we know vs what we do not know, has not really helped us out much in the theory crafting here.
While you make a point that Ventrue do not single out babysitter types as their typical childe, neither do we have an abundance of artistic talent displayed by Sharon either. Kassandra is the only one that is in an artistic like field, running night clubs, but she is not alone in this and she says as much.

The hound... Eloise, is definitely Ventrue material, and Sharon comes right out and says that the MC could be one of "Us". Take that with the inferred Fortitude, the not inferred but directly exercised Presence, and the most popular of Sharon's powers Dominate, we have a text book Ventrue.
Sharon also tells the MC right off to work on income and power base, as he will need both. He retorts being a DJ, and she dismissively moves on from that. Sharon clearly either comes from money or made a lot on her own as her place in the city is quite nice, and she doesn't fret at all about having to buy a new place in Scottstown when it is brought up as a possibility by Andrew.

I would wager my own left nut that she is as close to what passes for Ventrue in this novel, as there is.

Astrid..... Clearly Sharon states "Her Kind can do that" when talking about looking alive. One of the most interesting abilities in Vicissitude is the ability to look alive, or super humanly beautiful, or ugly, or other worldly. Perfection of the form, whatever that may be, is the goal of that discipline. Now 5th edition is combining Koldunic Sorcery and Fleshcrafting into one clan morphing of the Protean Path for the Tzimisce. Now I personally am not sure I care for it, but it is quite interesting. Tzimisce are traditionally so tied to the land of their birth, that they must rest on two handfuls of soil from that land. Not quite so much in the current edition, as the Fleshcrafters move away from the lands of their birth with little to no impact, and the Koldunes become One with the Land, in essence becoming almost like spirits that serve Gaia of all things.. I think they even reference some kind of bizarre connection there that is not Wyrm ridden.
I think Astrid is a shape shifter. Not a were critter. A vampire shifter. As she is clearly not eaten up with Beast Traits, which even Vicissitude can not so easily cover up (or the ugly of the Nos for that matter, I am left with her not being Gangrel. I also believe that she is tied to the place and time of Scottstown at a perfect locale to whack Sharon up side her head when she is on the verge of interrupting Astrid picking up Gregor for her collection. So I think Astrid assaulted Sharon, not simply wanting to kill her, but to humiliate her in court, and sow discord throughout the realm. The kill desire is coming fast though, as her only out, if that.

These are not overly complicated. These are not overly simplified. I think like Goldilocks, it is just right.
We can throw pantheons and such in later if desired, but I think they make a very good talking point. Loki's line of monsters for Tzimisce anyone???????
Peace
Off topic, but i come into this thread pretty much every day just to read your comments. I don't know how you do it, but the way you write stuff, the points, facts and events you bring up just gets my imagination running. Honestly, i'd be happy if you were the game writer lol
Up to the part of making what is probably the most beautiful character* in game a male? Sure, he writes very interesting and likeable stuff and I enjoy his and BigStuffedTiger, our main experts, discussions of the lore so very much. I don't agree with all the theories, specially when they contradict what I believe is better literary logic, but they are nonetheless very fun discussions. Luckily we are getting away with violating off topic lately. I

*different tastes we each may have aside, Astrid is extremely gorgeous and I would say, most of us would agree on that.
 
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