You're shameless!
My detailed explanation was deleted by a mod so this time around I'm only going to say that warforms are nowhere mentioned in Rebirth. They are a reference to the inspirational material which we can't discuss in this thread because it's against the rules.
They did have a serious spat that terminated their relationship and Astrid is very definitely bitter about it.
She would erase her greatest disappointment.
Yes, we all are shamelessly stuck on this game. a Brief retelling of some of our discussions is in order, so I will take a whack at that:
Tags for this game and I quote- Supernatural, Super-Powers, Transformation-Monsters. Minimal sexual tags like groping, vaginal sex, and such. This is an adult novel, not a porn novel, so the tags so far work fine. Now Transformation, Monsters, Superpowers all go in a lot of interesting directions....
The idea of warform, discussed in a way that keeps us UNdeleted is this.... Vampires have a lot of powers. Our MC has been able to transform a part of his hand into a combat weapon -Claws. These claws are not the claws of the Wolfboys, which are referenced by Markus in talking with Sharon about the MC's exceptional claws, and of the village elders, Markus is the first to suspect there is more to the MC than meets the eye.
Greek mythology, which may or may not have anything to do with the story, in fact discusses a curse set upon Calisto for bearing a child of Zeus. This curse involved a bear form. We previously, (I say we, but in all fairness, it is some not all of us) have been relying on Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology for some of our game theory crafting. Others have been more reserved in this.
Neither is a bad way to go, and as one of those who likes the ideal of attaching more to the various pantheons of antiquity, and away from the actual *** and I will say it*** Vampire the Masquerade which is a tremendously rich game with a lot of materials written about vampire lore, so tying in with actual historical pantheons like the Greeks, and walking away from Mark Rein-Hagen's more Judeo-Christian focus would be a very good thing from a copyright perspective. (which is actually funny because Mark is agnostic at most, and an atheist most likely), but he has discussed this at length in the past. Stewart Weick was one of the co-founders of WW which VtM was the Flagship for. Ars Magica which is the spiritual parent of most things WW put out, was created by Mark and a very prolific creator Jonathan Tweet. I never actually corresponded with Mr. Tweet, but I did have several conversations and later emails with Mark and Stewart as one of their fan boys. (Sad days when Stewart passed away in 2017)
Anyhow, that is the inspirational material we discuss.
So we do know that the powers that the MC is showing, includes some fairly singular ones. I can debunk the idea of Fabian being the same clan as the MC in that he has been around in vampire society for a long time. He is able to walk in and around whatever court he wants, as he was tagging along with an official rep of the Princeps- aka Prince of the city, and for as long as he has been around and as well connected as he seems to be, one would have seen when he had a fight or had to defend himself, the claws. Markus has not seen such claws before, and he is a Nos, and the Nos do one thing better than look ugly, and that is know things... So if Fabian has Claws, he has certainly hidden it to the point that an elder in the city who is likely to know a lot of things, has never seen claws like these, including the Wolf Boys (referenced again, which will lead to war form discussions later one but hey it is what it is)
So my assumption is that Fabian is from a clan that eventually traces back to a singular progenitor. This would be more powerful and ancient than Calisto, who discusses Greek Gods, has the name of one, who served as the High Priestess of a still greater goddess- Artemis***could be an important name...just saying***, the daughter of Zeus, and twin of Apollo, elder twin at that.
(side note and strictly my opinion- Titan's (original beastly founders of all manners of gods and monsters)"Cronus"->Zeus (and the other Eldest of the Greek Gods-Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Hestia, Demeter)->Artemis (looks so pretty surrounded by red, was a bloody huntress and vengeance filled goddess so it works well)->Calisto (loyal daughter((Nymph who bore Zeus a child named Arcus-was then cursed with a human and bear form to hide from the Jealous Hera)) and High Priestess-Calisto references Church things and Pagan churches are brought up even by Sharon)-> her second Childe -Main Character. (Arcus being the first, and he disastrously almost killed Calisto in her bear form, but she was saved by Zeus-fascinating stuff!) (so taken at face value-Fabian is shocked that Calisto would have another childe after the debacle of Arcus- pure conjecture on my part, and nothing copyrighted.
Then either:
Titan "Cronus"->Zeus->Apollo (twin-brother of Artemis)->Hecate(somewhat lesser Goddess of Magic)->Fabian (works well for a clan of Magister Vampires)
This puts both Fabian and MC at the same distance of descent from the Titans, and Zeus, and splits the bloodline between two Major Gods Artemis and Apollo who were as I have said, twins, competitive and yet loyal to each other, and would make Fabian and the MC "cousins".
OR
Competing theory of mine is that Fabian's line goes -Titan "Cronos" ->Hades (sometimes called "Cthonian Zeus")->Zagreus -God of Oracular Vision((murdered and then reborn as Dionysus whose father is Zeus, and he is sometimes listed as the father of Zagreus, Cthonian Zeus was aka Hades fuck I love old myths! There is an entire game dedicated to this dude....) who is tied phallically to Alkon, and Eurymedon so pick one (though Hephaestus is a father figure in this...) lets pick Zagreus->Alkon->Fabian. Now, Hades, and his son Zagreos/Zagreus are both Cthonic gods, not Cthulu, but Cthonian which has connotations of Blood Sacrifices. This is definite vampire material.
Back to the MC, though to be honest, I really like thinking about how this could work with a Greco Religious tie in.....We have discussed that VG is driving the train around here as the resident Ancient. Now Merrick thinks that if any of the Ancients are still around, they are in the middle east. He discusses a fellow Nos named Frank who got visions of a girl which the MC suspects is the same girl he has visions of. Some have speculated that Frank was related to Vision Girl.
*** more on that in a minute***
What is likely, based on behavior, and only in story knowledge and guesses based on that is this-
The MC is the direct childe of a very very old and powerful vampire, whose ennui has been at least temporarily abated by the siring of her new kid.
Fabian has some tie to Calisto-dating back to the middle ages or perhaps dark ages, as the vision shows him decked out as a knight (Knight's Templar??) kneeling before Calisto. Fabian is a Thaumaturge. He calls the MC his cousin, and he is directly involved with Calisto to the extent that he feels free enough to discuss her breeding habit or lack there of with her newest childe. Fabian is able to make a dead human speak, yes kids, that is actually a pretty creepy and powerful ability of necromancy, and Thaumaturgy is one of the forms of magic which is discussed historically and in certain games and movies and books (and prompted my whole Hades rant). So he is a somewhat old, accomplished necromancer if nothing else, though he did not make the corpse get up or move around or anything except to open it's eyes and move it's mouth to speak. It recounted it's final moments, and confirmed the other boy was grabbed by the feral nos. What other powers Fabian has, we do not know. We also do not know if Calisto is likewise a Templar, which is the clan name given in the novel. So the vampiric genealogy of Fabian is not confirmed, but is suspected to be (by some of us on this forum-not me though- )in the same clan as Calisto.
***Back to Frank now for a minute***
Vision Girl didn't spawn the Nos, unless she had a childe and then cursed them with monumental ugly. Far more likely that they come through the Hephestian line of godlings but I digress....Yet, Frank had visions, not unlike our MC, which the visions are very prolific and accurate for him, and are reminiscent of Oracular powers that the Greeks loved to have in their myths such as the Oracle at Delphi etc. Great heroes were given visions and guidance to do their deeds, and so possibly Frank is one of those???? OOORRRR he did something naughty and VG is punishing him with wild goose chasing???? (if she is Artemis, she IS vengeful as fuck!)
Visions are important to our story, and if our MC would sit and just think for a few minutes, he would realize how incredibly powerful those visions are. Now, Fabian was not surprised that the MC had a vision where he saw his mommy and Fabian together. He was happy, as it confirmed she had actually had a kid. So we can infer that Visions is one of the powers of the clan. Some of us (I am one of those) think that the Vision Girl is the sire of Calisto, (
BigStuffedTiger would probably go with grand-sire or knocking VG down the ancestry line a bit further than I do)
Astrid/Sharon stuff-
Terminating your childe is not only poor form but does not adequately address the issues which a sire and childe would have should they have a falling out. Education of said childe is the more appropriate way, and even better if you do it in such a way as it only brings good press on you and even your childe, as the vampires know that to er is human, but to force your will upon others in such a way as to be almost eloquent, is divine. Sharon is not Astrid's childe. She was her lover for a time, and perhaps her mentor, but Astrid is not her sire. Astrid does not demonstrate the domination power, and if she did, she would not be having the issues she is currently having. This is not to say she doesn't have a form of mental control, simply that she has not demonstrated it.
Ayhsel doesn't like the ideas I have about Astrid, and I can respect that, but I still have them.
I have not brought up other pantheons, as competing forces of nature for our possibly Greek based city vamps, but I do think Astrid is from a competing faction, which for the hell of it, I think is Norse, and that she would trace a line of descent up to Loki. She is not as close to the source as our MC is, but she is older. She is hot, but if you look to Norse mythology, and with this point I will stop- Loki often changes form to a fish, or a woman or whatever.. he even had monsters for kids..... so if we want to look for monsters, perhaps we don't have to look much further than Astrid..... fair seeming... even supernaturally alive seeming...but a monster?
Peace!
